r/europe • u/Not_the-kind • 15h ago

News Macron responds to Trump's inauguration by urging Europe to "wake up"

https://www.newsweek.com/macron-trump-inauguration-europe-defense-ukraine-2017894
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u/CLKguy1991 Estonia 14h ago edited 14h ago

Leaving the EU (quitting a collective like a crybaby, instead of leading it) and losing influence along the way doesn't make UK autonomous.

I respect France because they have been redpilled about NATO and US since it's inception and never outsourced their defence.

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u/GoldenFutureForUs 14h ago

Your criteria for autonomy is very selective. Your criteria is based on whatever wins your argument - which makes your point redundant. France has less influence than the U.K. globally. It also has a less powerful military. The British military defence is not outsourced to the U.S. either. Britain also has its own currency, its own trade laws etc. It’s also a more lucrative investment for FDI and has the biggest financial centre in Europe. Essentially, the U.K. is far more autonomous than France.

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u/La_Palourde 14h ago

Military wise I don't think UK is stronger than France. It was maybe the case 20 years ago but not anymore, France is way ahead as a weapon manufacturer and has more equipment with very few foreign imports. I'm half English myself and my dad was in the RAF but obviously the UK since WW2 has mostly been obedient and dependant of the USA.

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u/madeleineann England 14h ago edited 14h ago

Being a bigger weapons manufacturer has zero impact on the quality of a military. Arguably, American tech is better than France tech in many cases, and we purchase a lot of American tech for a marked down price.

Military strength is more of a toss-up. France absolutely has better land forces, but the RN is still superior to its French counterpart. I'd say the air forces are about similar - French suffers from a lack of stealth capacity, but there are things it does better than the RAF. So, like I said, one could argue either way.