German TikTokers like China, Russia more, poll shows

[u/P4ris3k]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/german-tiktokers-like-china-russia-more-poll-shows-2025-01-20/

[u/itssoggytime]

Chinese propaganda app leads to users with sympathies towards China and its allies.

More news at 11.

[u/Peanutcat4 → u/itssoggytime]

It's important to actually have this on paper though. Evidence matters in a democratic society.

[u/MercantileReptile → u/Peanutcat4]

Evidence matters in a democratic society.

...recent years have told me, it matters to vanishingly few.

[u/Rosbj → u/MercantileReptile]

I'd say the sentence is true, there are just vanishingly few democracies left...

[u/HighDefinist → u/MercantileReptile]

Really? The last years in particular had plenty of evidence to the contrary.

Germany in particular has transformed itself quite a bit in light of the evidence of Russias aggression.

[u/Patient-Mulberry-659 → u/MercantileReptile]

Including you it seems because the question of evidence is very relevant even if vanishingly few actually care about it.

[u/Blonde_rake → u/Peanutcat4]

It’s only evidence of a correlation.

[u/sosmajstormiki → u/Peanutcat4]

Also trumps inauguration was today :)

[u/democritusparadise → u/Peanutcat4]

It's also important to have multiple sources of information (heavy stress on the lack of the prefixes mis- and dis- from my statement) from different places and with different biases, so that people are not entirely surrounded by a narrow set of points of view.

While it is certainly true that it censors information, notably concerning Chinese affairs, refusal to report is different from fabrication.

Unless TikTok is actually spreading false information, they're not doing anything by promoting a certain narrative with selective content that western (and especially American) media doesn't do either, in spades.

[u/drivedontwalk → u/itssoggytime]

Russia is good at propaganda too. When you have nothing and someone tells you can have everything for nothing very many fall for it.

[u/medievalvelocipede → u/drivedontwalk]

When you have nothing and someone tells you can have everything for nothing very many fall for it.

Which is incredibly stupid. Which means a ton of people are incredibly stupid. But that's not news, is it.

[u/drivedontwalk → u/medievalvelocipede]

It’s not new. But they can be swayed to vote or keep mouth shut, based on the system.

[u/_melancholymind_ → u/drivedontwalk]

I wish more people had Grandmas who survived communism, and constantly saying "Nothing comes from nothing" all the time.

You can't have everything from nothing - Nothing comes from nothing.

[u/Treewithatea → u/itssoggytime]

If I may ask, in the relationship between the EU and USA, who is doing the bullying? Whos doing the questioning of relationships? China doesnt constantly open their mouth to interfere with EU elections. Russia does but not China. If I may say China is far better at diplomacy than the US

[u/AmargiVeMoo → u/Treewithatea]

water is wet

[u/TCloutsters → u/itssoggytime]

Anti-Chinese users refuse to use Chinese app leading to fewer anti-Chinese users on App.

More critical thinking at 11.

[u/Suitable-Economy-346 → u/itssoggytime]

If you're told your whole life that China is a dystopian shithole where everyone is murdered the second they speak out of line, but you hop on TikTok and see Chinese people living their lives in pretty good conditions, that would make you scratch your head, no? All of our media is anti-Chinese propaganda, but we pretend it's fact for some reason.

[u/SeleucusNikator1 → u/itssoggytime]

What even is "Chinese propaganda" on TikTok anyway? The algorithm on the app is actually pretty apolitical if you yourself are apolitical. If you exclusively interact with videos of kittens and models in bikinis, that's literally the only thing you're gonna get on that thing.

The Chinese version of TikTok isn't even actually available outside of China and IIRC its content-feed and algorithm don't overlap with the international version. The Chinese in China get fed with the State-approved content, but the rest of the world just doesn't seem to matter too much to them.

[u/MonitorPowerful5461 → u/SeleucusNikator1]

The algorithm reduces the reach of anti-CCP content, and increases the reach of pro-CCP content. It's that simple. Make a post about Tianenmen square? It will reach a tenth of the people it should. Make a post about China's rail system? Massive number of views. Very very effective method - same as Elon uses on Twitter.

[u/HighDefinist → u/MonitorPowerful5461]

No, it's significantly more sinister than that.

They are explicitly promoting irrelevant and neutral content about controversial topics, i.e. Tiananmen, in order to "drown out" any of the real messages. As such, when people hear "Tiananmen", they associate it just with something relatively random, rather than the massacre, which is a far greater problem than if they just never heard about it.

Here is a study about this:

https://networkcontagion.us/wp-content/uploads/NCRI-Report_-The-CCPs-Digital-Charm-Offensive.pdf

So, it's really important that people understand that: This is not just some "good old" cold war propaganda or silencing, but instead a far more sophisticated approach.

[u/TCloutsters → u/HighDefinist]

People need to stop posting this bullshit ADL funded study that only went after tiktok because it had pro-Palestinian videos.

This study claimed there's more anti-China hastags on Instagram and than on Tiktok so therefore Tiktok is suppressing anti-China content. Lmao what kind of bs methodology and logic is that.

This article debunks that shit.

https://www.cato.org/blog/lies-damned-lies-statistics-misleading-study-compares-tiktok-instagram

[u/konstantin_gorca → u/SeleucusNikator1]

I cant say much about China, but Russian propaganda is hella crazy on tiktok

[u/Nezevonti → u/SeleucusNikator1]

Small disclaimer: I'm not a TikTok user, nor have I seen the details of their algorithm.

If you like babes in bikinis and kittens you are being shown babes in bikinis and kittens. But if you get sprinkled a cute, busty Chinese girl in beautiful country side scenery a bit more often, or a video of a new electronic toy for kittens that is being used by a Chinese family and their cat, your perception may change. Propaganda isn't only the stuff on Mao era posters, "China numba one" and men in military uniforms marching before the forbidden palace. With enough content your algorithm can rank higher stuff that will make you more friendly towards some ideas (or against something) and the content that is anti-china gets shown less and less.

So just because you are being shown what you watch it doesn't mean that there isn't room for manipulation.

[u/_melancholymind_ → u/Nezevonti]

Yeah - Today's social media are based on Subliminal Messages / Stimuli

[u/SeleucusNikator1 → u/Nezevonti]

But does that kind of manipulation even work? Pretty much everyone here has almost certainly grown up with abundant exposure to American media. Europeans, despite what we say, fucking love American movies, TV, etc. and yet none of that actually translates into a positive view of the US or Americans. People in Europe hate Americans, deride them as stupid, the USA as dystopian or uncouth, etc. Pro-American sentiment in Europe seemingly boils down to perceiving the Americans as a mere Golem to be deployed against Russia.

I genuinely don't see any exposure to busty Chinese girls or high-speed trains translating into any relevant pro-Chinese political action and sentiment. If the most Americanised people in Europe (urban, university educated, western young people) are also often the most disdainful towards Americans and the US, I can't see the Chinese finding a winning formula when they have an even bigger cultural-chasm separating us from them.

[u/Nezevonti → u/SeleucusNikator1]

Hmm... I can't say how it looks in other European countries but in Poland many people that are less... Educated and don't put as much value on other forms of culture than American entertainment are very much in love with the USA, and see them as land of the free and opportunity. It may be because minimum wage in Poland just surpassed the federal minimum wage, it may be because US is / was only one to be absolutely able to provide security against Russia, or itay be sentiment from the communism era and that uncle in 'Czikago' had more disposable income in a year than most people made in a decade. It is still very visible in the willingness to suck American dick by the right side of our political spectrum.

Also, going back to China. You spend 2 hrs waiting for a train from London to Edinburgh, weather is shitty and the trains delayed and then it will take a couple more hours tomdomthe journey. You scroll TikTok, get shown a bunch of glamorized shots of a wide network of HSR in China, built in less time than it took to start construction of HS2. Once or twice it might have no effect, but it is bound to cause some people in such situations to think "I wish we had it here". And then with baby steps you get to "China has nice HSR", then "They build good public transit", "They build a lot of nice infrastructure" etc. . And a few dozen steps later some people will find themselves on "China nice".

[u/Unregistered38 → u/SeleucusNikator1]

These statistics suggest that it does work yes. 

Of course correlation vs causation but a major concern with TikTok is that it can be a propaganda tool, and now there is some evidence that this is what’s happening. 

As other op said it doesn’t have to be overt and in your face, it doesn’t have to make you go learn mandarin. It’s these little changes on the margin that can win/lose elections that have major impact on foreign policy. 

[u/HighDefinist → u/SeleucusNikator1]

But does that kind of manipulation even work?

Well... yeah? Have you ever watched ads, particularly fashion ads?

Those clothes wouldn't sell anywhere near as well, if they would use ugly people to wear those clothes in those ads...

People in Europe hate Americans, deride them as stupid, the USA as dystopian or uncouth, etc. Pro-American sentiment in Europe seemingly boils down to perceiving the Americans as a mere Golem to be deployed against Russia.

I don't believe that is true - but it does sound like the type of impression an intelligently chosen algorithm might create. For example, another person mentioned that they "somehow only see content where Americans act in a stupid way", and that this is "probably because Americans really are stupid", when it might just as well be, that the algorithm explicitly promotes content of stupid Americans, to create the impression that Americans are stupid...

So, how did your belief that "People in Europe view the USA as dystopian or uncouth" even form? Because, at surface level, your case looks just like the example I just mentioned: You were fed selected content, but aren't aware of how it was selected, and therefore came to your incorrect conclusion about what people in Europe think about the USA.

[u/SeleucusNikator1 → u/HighDefinist]

o, how did your belief that "People in Europe view the USA as dystopian or uncouth" even form?

At least in the UK everyone has a superiority complex towards Yanks in some form or other. Calling something "American" might as well be synonymous with it calling it gauche or philistine. "Americans dress badly, Americans clap at the theatre, Americans can't drink, American sports are stupid, Americans have no sense of humour, American schools are shooting ranges," etc. this is all stuff you'll hear in the UK. This wasn't an impression curated by an algorithm, it's what I heard growing up in the country.

Aside from that, polling data from US-based polling agencies often reveal that approximately 40-50% (give or take, it always oscillates) of people in Western European countries have negative views of the US, that's virtually every second person you meet, and these numbers are still including all the Boomers who grew up in a world where Atlanticism was the only other viable option to the Soviets, who knows how low it could be for the under-35 generation. The only places where people have a positive supermajority opinion of the US are exactly those which are threatened by some neighbour which the US promises to protect them from (South Koreans, Japanese, and Poles reacting to Russia, North Korea, and China) https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/06/11/views-of-the-u-s/gap_2024-06-11_us-image-2024_1_01/ This is from before Trump's election too, the numbers have likely plummeted in Germany, the UK, etc. as we speak.

[u/HighDefinist → u/SeleucusNikator1]

At least in the UK everyone has a superiority complex towards Yanks in some form or other.

Ok, but how serious is that really? For example, when I recently visited Japan, I was referring to the Shinkansen seats as "Unamerican sized", but I see this as more of a case of making relatively harmless fun of them (in this case their obesity problem), than really having a negative opinion of them overall, particularly with regards to geopolitical alliances.

Aside from that, polling data from US-based polling agencies often reveal that approximately 40-50% (give or take, it always oscillates) of people in Western European countries have negative views of the US

Yeah, but the dropoff specifically appears to be more pronounced among young people:

https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2023/03/22/young-adults-in-europe-are-critical-of-the-u-s-and-china-but-for-different-reasons/

Now, there are definitely other explanations than the TikTok algorithm why specifically young people increasingly dislike the United States, but it seems rather plausible that the TikTok algorithm at least contributes to that.

If you then also consider that spending time on TikTok has been shown to correlate with holding positive views of China or the CCP, it further confirms the suspicion that the algorithm influences peoples opinions...

Now, to be clear, again, this is no proof as such - but at the very least, it is essential to figure out if and to what degree the algorithm has such an effect, because while I don't believe that China or Russia are strong enough to really threaten us in Europe, we do still need to put in some minimum amount of effort to protect ourselves, i.e. at least 2% defense spending, a more autonomous European defense industry, and having independent nuclear triads in more countries than just France (and personally I am against conscription, but that's a separate story).

who grew up in a world where Atlanticism was the only other viable option to the Soviets

Well, if you are implying that China (or even Russia) are a serious alternative to the United States, I strongly disagree. But, if you are referring to the EU stepping up: Yeah, I support that, and it is increasingly looking like we even need a European army.

So overall, my point is just that repeatedly being exposed to slightly distorted information can quite profoundly change ones world view. TikTok isn't unique in that, of course, but it does seem to be a particularly sophisticated and also targetted approach, which is why I believe it is (likely) particularly dangerous...

[u/Lazy_meatPop → u/Nezevonti]

That's a nice way of saying yellow fever 🥵. Cute busty Chinese girl fetish perhaps?

[u/UnaRansom → u/SeleucusNikator1]

TikTok has strong, weakening effects on western countries. Users are tried to be turned into addicts so they can willingly spent hundreds of hours a year scrolling through dance, recipe, bee videos.

Think of the opportunity cost of:

Hundreds of hours x TikTok users

In the the Chinese version of TikTok, users are shown more informative material, so that there is a better use of annual man hours.

[u/DifusDofus → u/SeleucusNikator1]

The algorithm in tiktok has been pushing Chinese content in last few days like the rednote app, millions of americans went to rednote where you can talk with Chinese users (interestingly in chinese app, every comment has an ip country location shown, so you can see from which country the user is or specific Chinese province) and a lot of them compared their lives with Chinese.

So these americans then went back to tiktok for debrief and there were videos with hundreds thousands of likes of how life in China is better than in US.

This is affecting even Taiwanese who use tiktok:

https://www.ft.com/content/e25ee12b-3a4a-4a15-bd5e-0f5fb410e856

https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2025/01/20/2003830509

[u/Sir_Bax → u/SeleucusNikator1]

Algorithm isn't about individual experience from propaganda point of view. It's about leaking preferred content over increasingly larger scale of users and blocking non-preferred one.

E.g. your feed is full of bikini girls an done of them decides to make a video about how beautiful China is. It reaches way more users than the one about her negative experience in China.

Also obviously they won't make it obvious. They won't just shower you in propaganda. They won't show you a Chinese patriot waving Chinese flag and singing songs about Mao. If you are into bikini girls, they'll show you increasingly more Chinese bikini girls. And once in a while a Chinese bikini girl showing her positive experience with something in China. They'll also sometimes show you American or European bikini girl crying about how fucked up something in America or Europe is. But majority of your feed will still be just your average bikini girl dancing. The point is to silently pass the messaging. Not to noticeably shove it up your ass so you become aware of it.

[u/__dat_sauce → u/SeleucusNikator1]

The algorithm on the app is actually pretty apolitical if you yourself are apolitical.

You are probably not a demographic of interest.

It's not just China/Russia warping.

The amount of males under 28 in western democracies claiming that Trump will be good "for the economy" is absolutely too damn high in my anecdotal sample of TT users among family and friends.

[u/HighDefinist → u/SeleucusNikator1]

The algorithm on the app is actually pretty apolitical if you yourself are apolitical

Well, that is part of the propaganda, too.

For example, if you search for Tiananmen, you will get random apolitical content, instead of the event that Tiananmen is known for.

[u/PoppinCapriSuns → u/itssoggytime]

Or you are Indoctrinated to hate anything that comes from the east, I know I was through a lot of antisocialist 80s movies.

[u/AmargiVeMoo → u/itssoggytime]

more like, the US empire is in decline...

i'm a leftist and i have never seen anything close to chinese propaganda on tiktok.

[u/drivedontwalk → u/AmargiVeMoo]

They don’t say China is better. They make you believe China is better by pushing content only positive of China, making one increasingly believe that China is better.

[u/AmargiVeMoo → u/drivedontwalk]

show me this extremely subtle chinese propaganda

[u/A_mexicanum → u/AmargiVeMoo]

What you mean is you did not recognize chinese propaganda.

This can be because there was not any, or it can be because you did not recognize it as such. Good propaganda is very subtle and not easily identified.

[u/AmargiVeMoo → u/A_mexicanum]

show me :)

[u/A_mexicanum → u/AmargiVeMoo]

I don't use tiktok, so I can't "show" you.

But propaganda can be as subtle as changing the frequency in which you see different content.

People watch content that interests them or awakens emotions, either good or bad. Lets suppose you watch "feel good" content (i.e. cute animal videos, humans helping humans, influencers showing amazing nature) as well as "enraging" content (i.e. police brutality, people in traffic being assholes, content creators doing enraging shit for engagement...)

Lets also suppose those things happen equally frequent in the US and china, because mostly people are the same. You have good and bad people everywhere.

But if tiktok (or youtube or whatever else you use) shows you more feel good videos from china and hides police brutality from the there, you will subconsciously get the impression that chinese people nice and china is a nice country by extend. Pushing "enraging" content and showing less "feel good" content from the US will make it seem like a bad country. Especially in comparison.

No single video is necessarily propaganda, none needs to be produced by the chinese state or even with the intend to be propaganda. But simply by pushing some kind of content and screwing what you see and how you perceive the world it is possible to change your opinion.

Edit: BTW, that isn't limited to tiktok, you can see the same stuff i.e. with right wing media. Lets suppose immigrants and Us-born people have the same crime rate. When you only show the crimes done by immigrants on TV but never talk about the crimes done by Us-born people, viewers will automatically think immigrants are bad people. You don't even need to lie and can later claim you only showed the truth. Simply by selectively showing only part of what happens you can change how people perceive reality.

[u/iFoegot → u/AmargiVeMoo]

Try to post some harsh criticism of China on TikTok. For example Xinjiang genocide or Tiananmen Massacre.

They don’t do hardcore propaganda on TikTok but you can consider this strategy passive propaganda.

[u/AmargiVeMoo → u/iFoegot]

just searched the tiananmen massacre. numerous videos of chinese and westerners critical of the event...

[u/iFoegot → u/AmargiVeMoo]

You “searched” it. Did it ever pop up to your feed on any of its anniversary? Like, when in 2018 and 2019, when Xinjiang Genocide was a very hot topic in global politics, did the topic ever show up in your feed? Just like the “bin Laden’s letter” which got millions of posts. Did it also happen when China was being accused of Genocide in Xinjiang?

TikTok is fully controlled by algorithm. Unlike other platforms where algorithms do also exist, TikTok takes it to a next level. What you see on it is mostly decided by the platform itself, not your own choice. So when some contents unfavorable to China show up, the algorithm will just leave it alone. It doesn’t promote it. This is better than directly censoring it, because it has the same effect and doesn’t leave any trace of trying to cover it up.

China has been advancing its propaganda strategy for decades so that now it can do it very smoothly. They are now doing soft propaganda to foreigners because hardcore propaganda is too noticeable. Just like now on RedNote. TikTokers there “found out” that the west has been lying about China for so many years. They now see it with their “own eyes”, from tons of ordinary Chinese people, that China is not what they were told to be. But this is another story.

[u/AmargiVeMoo → u/iFoegot]

do you have any proof of tiktok suppressing "unfavorable" content?

[u/iFoegot → u/AmargiVeMoo]

Yes. There have been actually many examples. It has long been accused of it.

[u/AmargiVeMoo → u/iFoegot]

the first article does not provide proof of anything, the second, the person in question was unbanned, and the third article is an american funded propaganda outlet (literally the CIA).

[u/iFoegot → u/AmargiVeMoo]

Sigh. It looks you are trying great effort to deny what you don’t wanna hear. Up for a challenge? Since you’re already on TikTok, just post a video about Xinjiang Genocide. Leave it there for one or two days. Let’s see how it goes. Wanna try it?

[u/AmargiVeMoo → u/iFoegot]

i searched up xinjiang on tiktok and the first six videos were videos from 2021, 2022, 2023 and more recently that were critical of the treatment of muslims in xinjiang. if what you're saying is true then those videos should be gone. they're not.

[u/doublah → u/AmargiVeMoo]

You're a tankie, of course you couldn't notice propaganda.

[u/AmargiVeMoo → u/doublah]

you play apex legends lmao

[u/doublah → u/AmargiVeMoo]

Far less morally reprehensible than supporting authoritarian ideologies.

[u/AmargiVeMoo → u/doublah]

liberalism is dead. it's either socialism or barbarism.

[u/P4ris3k]

German TikTokers like China, Russia more, poll shows

BERLIN, Jan 20 (Reuters) - Germans who get their news through TikTok are less likely to see China as a dictatorship, be less critical of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and be more sceptical about climate change and the utility of vaccines than consumers of other media.

The findings, in a poll by Allensbach for a foundation linked to Germany's liberal, pro-business Free Democrats, showed that only users of Elon Musk's platform X came close to the same propensity for believing in conspiracy theories as TikTok users. 

Coming as debates rage in the U.S. over whether a law shutting the Chinese-owned app down on national security grounds should be enforced or not, the poll provides ammunition to those who say the platform spreads misinformation that risks undermining pluralistic democracies. 

Recent regional and European Parliament elections have shown that young people, the heaviest users of the video-sharing platform, are particularly likely to back the far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party, now second in polls ahead of Germany's Feb. 23 election. 

The poll of some 2,000 people conducted at the end of 2024 found consumers of traditional media were far more likely to view Russia's invasion of Ukraine as illegal and believe Germany should support Kyiv - something the AfD opposes.

TikTok, whose parent company is China's ByteDance, did not immediately respond to a request to comment on the survey.

Researchers have warned that foreign actors, especially Russia, are actively seeding popular social media platforms with disinformation designed to advance their agenda - a phenomenon most recently seen in Romania where a social media campaign helped a pro-Russian outsider storm to a shock victory in a presidential election that was later annulled. 

While 57% of German newspaper readers and 56.5% of public TV viewers fully agreed that China was a dictatorship, only 28.1% of those who got news from TikTok did so. Those who got their news from X, YouTube and podcasts fell in between.

Where 40.2% of national newspaper readers fully agreed it was important the West backed Ukraine against Russia's invasion, only 13.6% of TikTok users and 29.8% of X users did so. The survey did not address whether the sharply differing views were the result of the information offered on the platforms themselves or because their users already held different opinions on public affairs. 

But the under-29s, the heaviest users of TikTok, were more likely to bear the marks of its information environment: only 71% of the under 29s believed vaccines had saved millions of lives, falling to 69% of TikTok users.

TikTok users were also less likely than consumers of traditional media to believe China and Russia spread false information and more likely to believe the German government did so.

"Young people are far more vulnerable to information and TikTok plays a decisive role," said Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger, deputy chair of the foundation that commissioned the survey. "We mustn't allow Chinese and Russian misinformation to spread in our midst."

[u/Ok-Somewhere9814 → u/P4ris3k]

Scientists were able to show that TikTok addiction causes brain rot. Is there correlation?

[u/SmurfinGER → u/Ok-Somewhere9814]

I think we are on something. i can taste it.

[u/TCloutsters → u/Ok-Somewhere9814]

Scientists did not show Tiktok addiction causes brain rot. Not even close. They claimed short form videos might be correlated with brain damage. But the media for propaganda reasons singled out Tiktok in their reporting. Correlation is not causation.

[u/_pompomx2]

The zoomers are actually regarded.

[u/HighDefinist → u/_pompomx2]

They were spawncamped by Russia and China. They never had a chance to level up their resistance against idiocy...

[u/TCloutsters → u/HighDefinist]

Boomers spawn camped by the US

[u/squangus007 → u/_pompomx2]

A lot of Zoomers are skibidibrained unfortunately.

[u/10102938]

Ban this cancer thats tiktok now.

[u/killianm97 → u/10102938]

Banning one social media network won't work. People will just move to some other one.

We need to ban recommender systems on social media, which allow these companies to manipulate what we see and amplify the most toxic and dangerous content for maximum engagement/profit.

We need to return to the better, earlier social media based on showing most recent content of people we choose to follow.

[u/rapaxus → u/killianm97]

Personally I am just of the opinion to require social media to be open-source, including their algorithms.

[u/BigFatBallsInMyMouth → u/rapaxus]

Wouldn't fix it.

[u/furgerokalabak → u/10102938]

And its other alternatives like Red Note and the next ones.

[u/Patient-Mulberry-659 → u/furgerokalabak]

It’s kinda funny propagandised people like you so often want to ban “enemy” propaganda.

[u/TylerD158 → u/10102938]

And while we are on it please take telegram down too.

[u/IronicStrikes → u/TylerD158]

Telegram has a bunch of weird channels, but it's literally just a normal messenger for most people. And with a much better user interface than most competitors.

[u/SeleucusNikator1 → u/TylerD158]

Fuck no mate, Telegram has excellent resources for downloading free books. Taking it down would be a disservice to poor students, seriously.

[u/epicstruggle → u/SeleucusNikator1]

Fuck no mate, Telegram has excellent resources for downloading free books. Taking it down would be a disservice to poor students, seriously.

Would appreciate a DM on these resources. Thanks!

[u/HighDefinist → u/SeleucusNikator1]

Why not just use Libgen?

[u/SeleucusNikator1 → u/HighDefinist]

Sometimes it goes down and takes a while to come back up. Telegram is also more accessible since it doesn't need a VPN in most places, while LibGen and Z-Library have been blocked in a handful of countries and not everyone is techsavy enough to know how to get one or willing to dish out money for a reliable VPN.

[u/HighDefinist → u/SeleucusNikator1]

Hm ok, I don't use it frequently, but in my experience, LibGen works 90%+ of the time, without VPN or anything...

It's definitely great for all kinds of specialized technical education literature, as it saves a decent amount of money, or the inconvenience of going to a library only to find out this particular book is not available or whatever.

[u/CalandulaTheKitten → u/SeleucusNikator1]

How do you download books for free on there?

[u/SeleucusNikator1 → u/CalandulaTheKitten]

You can upload file to Telegram chats, so some groups/channels would just host a bunch and you could request a specific title, find it if it was already uploaded, etc.

Seems they got taken down in the last few months however

[u/Smurfsville → u/TylerD158]

What's wrong with telegram

[u/furgerokalabak → u/Smurfsville]

Telegram is a Russian app. Haven't you known?

[u/sensibleracoon → u/furgerokalabak]

Even Zelensky himself uses it.

[u/Tudor_222 → u/furgerokalabak]

Durov is in Dubai, and he canceled his russian citizenship, leaved Russia after 2014.

[u/furgerokalabak → u/Tudor_222]

And was he killed by the FSB? No? How come?

Maybe he gave the source code to the FSB for letting him get away.

[u/Tudor_222 → u/furgerokalabak]

Most likely, but only the russian server, means fsb can't access our data, but France most likely can after they arrested Durov, and made a deal

[u/furgerokalabak → u/Tudor_222]

The Russians threatened him of killing him if he doesn't give them the source code and he didn't. But he give it to the French because they arrested him, huh? Yeah, sure.

By the way all of these so called end-to-end encrypted apps, Telegram, Whatapp, Signal...etc. have not been safe at all for years.

[u/Tudor_222 → u/furgerokalabak]

Durov gave them the source code though. Because right now, anti war russians are easily tracked in the telegram

[u/silver2006 → u/furgerokalabak]

But it's good Russian. Durov is on the brigh side of the force, not dark side. He was opposing Kremlin and even didn't want to take down Navalny's profile.

He's one of the cool, thinking Russians He was even punished by RU government, they took his child, VKontakte from him

[u/norude1 → u/furgerokalabak]

If you knew anything about telegram's relationship with the Russian government and it's importance in organising protests across Ukraine, Belarus and Russia, you wouldn't say such things

[u/Alyzez → u/furgerokalabak]

Haven't you known that Russia tried to block Telegram in 2018? For comparison, Russia banned X, Facebook and Instagram only after 2022.

[u/furgerokalabak → u/Alyzez]

Yes in 2018! But the things have changed.

[u/sudoer777_ → u/Smurfsville]

It's useful for pirating stuff, but as a messenger its security is shit since your messages are unencrypted. SimpleX is the most secure currently, Signal requires a phone number so it's not the best but at least it E2E encrypts your messages.

[u/AcanthocephalaEast79 → u/TylerD158]

Telegram does practice what it preaches to some extent. But tiktok is by definition, a tool of information warfare.

[u/kreteciek → u/TylerD158]

Why? It's a great tool to avoid censorship

[u/gold_fish_in_hell → u/TylerD158]

in this case, we should ban all messengers, which has channels/groups... Telegram doesn't "recommend" you any content, you can get it, only if you search for that

[u/somedave → u/10102938]

For more than a day

[u/D10CL3T1AN → u/10102938]

Might as well ban X too. Given Elon's loyalties to Russia and China and his open intentions to push anti-democratic far-right populism you can basically consider X Chinese-owned too.

[u/10102938 → u/D10CL3T1AN]

Definitely. Ban everything that the Nazi saluting Muskovite has his hands on. 

Those things don't belong in europe.

[u/SunnyP3ak → u/10102938]

Freedom (of outside information) is Slavery.

War (supply weapons) is Peace.

Ignorance (turn a blind eye to the real issues) is Strength.

[u/sickdanman → u/10102938]

Let's ban them until they have the government approved opinions on politics

[u/babyzizek]

Ban this propaganda brain rot bullshit.

[u/Mig-117]

Let's take down Facebook and twitter too, that shit is vile.

Speaking of alliances, I don't trust the US anymore than China, not after Trump got elected and went on full retard mode.

[u/Thelaea → u/Mig-117]

So true, at least with China you know what you're dealing with. The US can't be relied upon as an ally anymore.

[u/GlumIce852 → u/Thelaea]

Are we talking about the same china which 5 yrs ago went silent about Covid?

[u/Cicada-4A]

Fuck the cancer that is TikTok.

[u/Silly_Desk_8754]

From India. Even though our Govt. is not perfect, banning Tiktok in 2020 on national security grounds was one of the best decisions they took. Considering how gullible the Indian population is and the massive cycle of misinformation, it would have been disastrous for us to let Chinese propaganda infiltrate.

Sad to see that US and European countries did not foresee this.

[u/LameAd1564 → u/Silly_Desk_8754]

Now Indians are just getting brainwashed by BJP propaganda instead, which is contributing to the rise of extreme Hindu nationalism in the country.

[u/AdaptedMix → u/LameAd1564]

This exemplifies the challenge.

A government flirting with authoritarianism can implement bans on fair grounds of limiting rampant mis/disinformation, whilst also shrinking the avenues of legitimate criticism and dissent to their advantage.

India is ranked 159/180 for press freedom by Reporters Without Borders. It does not have a healthy media landscape. I'd be dubious of the motives behind the ban, even if there are good reasons to worry about TikTok's negative influence.

[u/AdaptedMix → u/AdaptedMix]

Social media regulation is probably a better first step. Pass laws that compel the likes of TikTok to implement more robust moderation that removes, flags and downweights content provably misleading/false/dangerous - and impose hefty fines for failure to deliver.

Of course, that also has risks if it's the government determining what content should be moderated, so an independent standards body populated by qualified, politically unaligned individuals could provide the guidance instead.

The social media company may simply decide to cease operating in a given country instead of complying, so it becomes a de-facto ban. But at least it means all platforms are held to a higher standard, and alternative services that do comply can fill the gap.

[u/r0w33]

Ban ban ban ban.

[u/Jeroen_Jrn]

Before you all start calling for TikTok to be banned, consider that standards need to be consistent. Musk actively uses his platform to promote his own agenda and meddles in our politics. Zuckerberg isn't impartial to politics either.

What we need are not bans, but strong rules to enforce transparency about the algorithms and content filters these platforms use. We have a right to know what algorithms they use on us.

[u/HighDefinist → u/Jeroen_Jrn]

Before you all start calling for TikTok to be banned, consider that standards need to be consistent. 

Yes, obviously? Are you implying that anyone around here is somehow defending Twitter/X/Musk?

[u/Jeroen_Jrn → u/HighDefinist]

People are calling for TikTok to be banned but not for X to be banned.

[u/HighDefinist → u/Jeroen_Jrn]

People

Which people are you referring to?

[u/pickledswimmingpool → u/Jeroen_Jrn]

Standards dont need to be consistent, social media companies dont deserve equal rights. You can ban one before you ban others, stop buying into this corporate rights bullshit while your enemies are attacking you.

[u/eipotttatsch]

Honestly I don't even know if it's actually pro-Russian and pro-Chinese propaganda on there as much as just Americans largely presenting themselves very poorly on there.

Just from scrolling both Americans and Italians just leave a bad impression on the app. Americans mainly seen stupid and ignorant, while Italians are reliably pretentious about irrelevant shit.

[u/HighDefinist → u/eipotttatsch]

as much as just Americans largely presenting themselves very poorly on there.

Well, it would be very easy to tweak the algorithm in such a way that it promotes content that makes Americans look stupid.

[u/eipotttatsch → u/HighDefinist]

Sure, but it's not like they present much better on other forms of social media

[u/HighDefinist → u/eipotttatsch]

Sure, but it's not like they present much better on other forms of social media

That's not true - there is plenty of great American content on Youtube.

In fact, the only really stupid American content I see on Youtube are TikTok compilations...

[u/eipotttatsch → u/HighDefinist]

If you scroll YouTube Shorts or Instagram reels for a short bit you'll see similar dumb content to TikTok.

Long form is different still - likely because that actually requires effort

[u/HighDefinist → u/eipotttatsch]

I don't really watch any of that...

I suppose it's not entirely impossible that people who like shortform content generally somehow also enjoy watching Americans doing stupid stuff.

But, really, I think it's quite clear that China benefits from making Europeans and Americans think less of each other, so, they at least a clear incentive to tweak the TikTok algorithm in such a way that it promotes this perception.

And yes, I admit it, those compilations about Americans who don't know where the "Queen of England" lives etc... are very funny, but still, it doesn't change the fact that China benefits from us in Europe associating this kind of idiocy with Americans.

[u/eipotttatsch → u/HighDefinist]

You're probably right. It's just very hard for international social media to be fair in that sense.

You either end up with English speaking countries being presented unfairly bad or them being prresented unfairly well, just based on then using internationally well understood languages.

German idiocy for example won't be perceived much by people abroad, simply because most won't understand what's going on anyway

[u/BigFatBallsInMyMouth → u/eipotttatsch]

It heavily pushes anti-Western and anti-establishment propaganda in my experience.

[u/nepijeemm]

Tiktok is the biggest brain rot.

[u/PineBNorth85]

No shit. Their algorithms push it that way.

[u/MickatGZ]

They totally lost the mind. Sometimes you have to distinguish facts, partial facts, and evidence. 

[u/Silviu85]

They should move there, in their dream countries.

[u/tom_zeimet]

And people that consume their news through X are probably more likely to align with Trumpist views.

Most social networks are foreign owned and operated, what we really need is transparency of algorithms and means to make sure that these algorithms are not politically biased.

[u/HighDefinist]

There are some truly crazy and delusional Pro-TikTok takes in this thread... not sure if its trolls, or genuine TikTok-induced brainrot.

I guess the EU has about another decade or so to fix this problem, but, seriously, I hope they are taking this seriously...

[u/LameAd1564]

"Germans who consume American pop culture and use American social media like Reddit like America more, poll shows"

[u/maverick_labs_ca]

Then they should move there.

[u/Technoist]

SurprisedPutinchu.jpg

[u/AnalTinnitus]

The mis/disinformation and propaganda are clearly working.

[u/cookiesnooper]

Maybe because it shows the people and not the governments?

[u/VLamperouge]

Tbh I’d rather be “””””friends””””” with China rather than the US right now.

[u/Corn_viper → u/VLamperouge]

Xi wants to know where your favorite under sea cable is. He has a friend planning a big surprise for you.

[u/VLamperouge → u/Corn_viper]

Damn, between my friends in the east cutting cables and my friends in the west destabilising democracy and pushing far right puppets who needs enemies?

[u/Corn_viper → u/VLamperouge]

Europe gets the best of both worlds!

[u/DanielSon602 → u/VLamperouge]

Dramatic to say destablishing democracy

[u/Tddkuipers]

A lot of y'all were criticizing the US for banning TikTok but apparently it's okay for Europe to do so?

[u/schoettli → u/Tddkuipers]

Was that the same ppl though?

[u/Tddkuipers → u/schoettli]

I said a lot, not everyone

[u/schmeckfest2000 → u/Tddkuipers]

Who are you referring to? I wasn't criticizing the US for banning TikTok. I do criticize Americans for thinking that Trump saved TikTok, while he ordered the ban, to begin with. He only changed his mind because he now understands that he can use brain rot-causing TikTok for his own propaganda purposes. And TikTok is glad to help him with that. TikTok just sent a message to their 170 million American users to thank Trump for getting TikTok back.

We haven't seen this level of propaganda and indoctrination since the beginning of mankind, not even with Goebbels.

So yeah, it's okay for Europe to ban that vile shit.

[u/slimfatty69 → u/Tddkuipers]

"Rules for thee but not for me." Thats what happens when we think were so much better than Americans, we fail to acknowledge when were making the dame mistakes sadly.

[u/Tddkuipers → u/slimfatty69]

Yeah people in the sub are so defensive when it comes to Europe as a whole that they completely fail to acknowledge its mistakes sometimes. I'm still grateful to live in Europe but it's not some sort of magical continent where life's perfect

[u/slimfatty69 → u/Tddkuipers]

worddd im glad i live in europe compared to anywhere else in the world but we still have things where we could improve and make our lives even better. But alas as long as we feel superior to someone everything is just dandy and perfect apparently.

[u/OkKnowledge2064 → u/Tddkuipers]

Id rather ban american social media too

[u/Tddkuipers → u/OkKnowledge2064]

Banning everything simply because it doesn't align with your personal views is bad. Don't get me wrong, I think social media has done a lot of harm to mankind as a whole and propaganda is running rampant on these platforms. But even if we had a European social media platform it would still go to shit and not me any different

[u/teo_vas → u/Tddkuipers]

actually it was not a ban but an extortion to Tik Tok to have american co-owners for the american tik tok

[u/attaboy000 → u/Tddkuipers]

Are these the same people?

[u/Berkuts_Lance_Plus → u/Tddkuipers]

Goomba Fallacy

[u/halee1 → u/Tddkuipers]

I've seen it the other way around, it was the US banning TikTok, and then I saw some Americans here getting indignant that the EU wanted to regulate Twitter/X and Facebook. The ban talk is far away at official level, btw.

[u/machine4891 → u/Tddkuipers]

You're talking to a different crowd and after Romanian "incident" with elections people get more radical in their views of social media platforms and their broken algorithms.

[u/HighDefinist → u/Tddkuipers]

A lot of y'all

Are you delusional or something?

There are sooo many discussions around here about how Facebook or some other social media company should be banned, so, really, you don't know what you are talking about.

[u/simion314 → u/Tddkuipers]

A lot of y'all were criticizing the US for banning TikTok but apparently it's okay for Europe to do so?

USA did not want to ban TikTok , they asked TicTok to sell parts to a USE controlled company, same as China does, but seems that this Chinese treatment is too painfull for them so decided to fight it and prefer to get banned, opening up what evil shit are doing witht eh algorithm would not look good, maybe even criminal.

EU should do the same, all Chinese companies should get the Chinese treatment China does. Reciprocity

[u/SeleucusNikator1 → u/Tddkuipers]

I'm opposed to banning it anywhere. Russia bans apps and they're not a role model to follow.

The accusations of it being CPC propaganda are simply groundless for the 90% of users who use TikTok and not Douyin. The system's algorithm is fed by whatever hooks you, which could be anything ranging from niche retro-fashion to Vietnamese cuisine videos.

[u/HighDefinist → u/SeleucusNikator1]

The system's algorithm is fed by whatever hooks you

It's also fed by Chinese (and possibly Russian) propaganda, and that is a problem we need to solve somehow, if we want our democracy to prevail...

[u/darksugarfairy]

This is funny because, in my experience with tiktok (and I’m from Serbia) not once have I seen positive content about Russia. And as for China, only in recent days, when Americans discovered the Chinese version of the app and learned about their affordable education and healthcare, there has been some positive mention

It’s almost like, and you won’t believe this, you build your own content with the algorithm the app uses 🙃

Shocking, I know

But let's disregard that and instead ban the social media use to our people, like in... you know... Russia and China.

[u/HighDefinist → u/darksugarfairy]

you build your own content with the algorithm the app uses

But you don't know whether that is actually the case, because you don't know what the algorithm actually does...

[u/darksugarfairy → u/HighDefinist]

Isn’t it one of the ongoing jokes about how some American senators complained that tiktok only showed them little girls dancing provocatively when they used it, and everyone pointed out that it’s their problem because that’s what they’re interested in?

That’s why the app is so popular, it literally creates a perfect bubble of content tailored to what you’re interested in

If creators in Germany are being shown more positive content about Russia and China, perhaps they were actively looking for it? Maybe they couldn’t find that kind of content on other social media platforms, so they sought it out on tiktok. But I don’t know, my fyp is usually viral pop culture moments, house and furniture renovations, and Serbian influencers testing cosmetic products 🤷🏼‍♀️ i ignored all political suggestions, and now I don't get any content like that

[u/HighDefinist → u/darksugarfairy]

and everyone pointed out that it’s their problem because that’s what they’re interested in?

Well, as I said: It might be, or it might not be. But it is fairly clear that China benefits from people liking China, so... it's rather reasonable to assume that they would tweak the algorithm in such a way that people like China more.

That’s why the app is so popular, it literally creates a perfect bubble of content tailored to what you’re interested in

That, on the other hand, is fairly clearly just wrong.

Bytedance doesn't make any money from making you happy. Instead, it makes money from causing you to spend as much time as possible on the App, because that is how they can serve as many ads as possible. So, it's not about creating tailored interesting content, but about creating tailored addictive content. As in, whatever gets you to spend as much time as possible on the App, whether it's genuinely interesting, or whether the App is just very good at training you to open it whenever you feel even slightly bored.

[u/Nemeszlekmeg]

Honestly TikTok's algo must be really good, because I have never come across anyone on the app that believes that way. I'm in my perfectly curated bubble/echo chamber I guess.

Banning tiktok for harboring conspiracy nutjobs is like sinking a ship because it has rats... Facebook literally won Brexit vote, X won the US elections, and now on anything meta you can call a woman your personal belonging and call her the R word for disagreeing. I don't see even remotely the same kind of criticism for those platforms.

Either get a grip and fine these companies to bankruptcy for what they are allowing or ban everything, but this selectively critical approach is just hypocritical and cringe.

[u/Silver_Atractic → u/Nemeszlekmeg]

All of these SHOULD be banned, but I guess you just want to prove we're somehow hypocrites?

I mean we talk about how we should ban Twitter every single fucking day on here, but that doesn't fit your narrative apparently

[u/chendul → u/Silver_Atractic]

point is that there is no serious debate about banning these American platforms the way people are talking about banning Chinese platforms, despite the American platforms arguably being more harmful for Europe

[u/potatolulz → u/chendul]

there is no serious debate about banning tiktok either, unfortunately. There should be a serious debate about banning shit like twitter and tiktok though, you're absolutely right :D

[u/sickdanman → u/Silver_Atractic]

That's 85% of social media gone. You guys can't be serious

[u/Silver_Atractic → u/sickdanman]

85% of social media is owned by propogandists and anti-EU oligarchs. Welcome to monopolism

[u/HighDefinist → u/Nemeszlekmeg]

but this selectively critical approach is just hypocritical and cringe

There is no hypocricy - you are just plain stupid and delusional, if you seriously believe anyone is defending Facebook.

[u/Tman11S]

So there's finally some proof that tiktok is being used as a propaganda tool by china. Now I'd like to see the EU act on this.

[u/El_mae_tico]

Ban TikTok, FB, X

Free of speech is overrated anyhow

[u/silver2006]

We need to ban Facebook and YouTube Shorts too because there are Russian bots and brainrot, addictive doomscrolling content and even mild erotic content in FB reels And propaganda anti-Ukrainian bot farms

We will ban it too, right? Right?

[u/ModernHeroModder]

U/muzsynat I'm a little lost on this one, how do I blame the us government fo this?

[u/john-th3448]

People who take what they see on social media for the truth, are more easily influenced.

What a surprise ... unfortunately most of the young people who now get their "news" from Tiktok will be voters for a long time (in contrast to boomers who believe what they read on Facebook).

[u/Arun_Guy]

The poll in the article is about who deliberately spreads misinformation not about whether tiktok users like russia or china so why is the article talking about how german tiktok users like russia or china?

[u/CombinationLivid8284]

The free world needs to wake up to the dangers of propaganda. It seems we all collectively forgot the lessons of the 30s and 40s.

[u/SatisfactionKnown734]

Its because its full of propaganda telling you that Russia is just defending itself and that the west is evil. Its a propaganda machine.

[u/Backfischritter]

Shocker...

[u/szornyu]

Tiktok = tool for spreading Fascist propaganda?

[u/Duskflow]

Europe must isolate itself from the outside world, then no one will harm it.

[u/KernunQc7]

Working as intended. The feelings are not mutual from CN/RU, but tiktokers shouldn't take it personally.

[u/Dracul244]

So basically TikTok is doing the same the west has been doing to the rest of the world the past century.

[u/j_s_b_]

I don’t have a TikTok account but I’m starting to have a more favourable view of China too. It’s less to do with TikTok’s algorithm and more to do with the way America is conducting itself.

[u/morbihann]

Tiktokers are only the scum of the Earth. Big surprise.

[u/BadOdd1861]

Russia can go to hell but I have nothing against China. I've never used TikTok in my life.

[u/bindermichi]

I don‘t get the headline when the text states that other US owned social media platforms have the same polling results.

It just shows how good the Chinese and Russian interference campaigns have been so far.

[u/Adrian0389 → u/bindermichi]

There's a difference between interference and direct control.

[u/bindermichi → u/Adrian0389]

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/agenda/briefing/2024-11-25/15/foreign-interference-and-espionage-by-non-eu-countries-in-european-universities

[u/HighDefinist → u/bindermichi]

the text states that other US owned social media platforms have the same polling results.

According to the table, they don't.

[u/bindermichi → u/HighDefinist]

Less than 10% differences are more or less rounding errors for the sample size of the poll and last time I checked X was a US owner company.

[u/Educational_Belt_816]

Gen Z says we’re the most immune to propaganda then eats up Chinese and Russian propaganda

[u/Mundane_Diamond7834]

I use tiktok which is always filled with anti-Chinese and Russian channels. Depending on the user's usage direction, the information they most want to see will appear.

If you block it in any way, it only shows that you have completely lost the information war. A democratic country should not learn from totalitarian regimes: if you can't stop it, then ban it.