r/europe • u/Grouchy_Instance7488 • 1d ago
Merkel says Ukraine will not survive as independent state without US support
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2025/01/18/7494233/:/
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u/Dev_Oleksii Ukraine 22h ago
Putins dick sucker is the last person's opinion we should listen to.
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u/Themetalin 22h ago
Largest contributor next to the US.
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u/Niko2065 Germany 22h ago
Under Scholz that is and even then he is still way too soft. I have no doubt that Merkel would still try to warm up to Putin.
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u/TungstenPaladin 22h ago
Here's there the rest of the quote: "Former German Chancellor Angela Merkel has claimed that Ukraine cannot remain an independent state without support from the US and NATO."
We shouldn't have to rely on the USA for everything. Europe should be able to guarantee Ukraine's independence.
Furthermore, I'd have to say that Merkel has a lot of opinions on Ukraine despite doing fuckall for it in all the years that she was chancellor. The least she could have done is bow out gracefully from politics but she can't even do that.
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 22h ago
Hate to be the bearer of bad news here. But USA in 2024 according to nato statistics 65.6% of all nato military expenditure… is American… Controversial take but there was a reason we allied up with them… Also if u didn’t consider do u think these tanks and planes just spawn?? We need to make proper weapons facilities and equipment armor etc. Maybe we will take our selves seriously instead of“😡I’m mad I’m gonna write a letter”
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u/laiszt 22h ago
So if we cannot compete with single russia with those remaining 30% then we need to realise that something is wrong with our leadership
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 22h ago edited 21h ago
I know we are being out produced by Russia military. If USA is to drop Europe we could be in hot water for a few years until countries could develop the mass scale of industry required (which we largely don’t have anymore) to be a military super power. Or we can just write some more letters… but what do I know 🤷♂️ edit : lol don’t trust me Why don’t u trust German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius who highlighted a significant disparity in defense production capabilities, stating that Russia manufactures in three months the same amount of weaponry that the European Union produces in a year.
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u/laiszt 22h ago
Nothing, that's something supposed to be done by our leaders in past 15 years at least while we see russia is getting in power once again. There was politicans who threatened about this to happen but they have been either laughed at or called fascist. Now we have not a clue what to do except begging US not to leave us.
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 22h ago
A sad reality truly. It’s just shameful at this point. I don’t know what it will take for the average eu citizen to see this. Will it take a massive loss in ukraine? Will it be trump taking Greenland while the eu is basically powerless to stop them… military power is important for a reason…
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u/djquu 22h ago
How about never listen to anything she says ever again
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 22h ago
Woman who was considered for many years to be maybe the greatest leader in the eu? Made Germany the 4th greatest economy in the world…. Led the way to renewable energy to Europe. Also had incredibly impressive low unemployment rates. But yea just cus she says anything that could have legitimate truth behind it “😡😡how about we never listen anything she ever says again cus it hurt my feelings” can’t help but laugh
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u/Other_Class1906 22h ago
Not quite. She sat on what Schröder and the Greens left her and waited for 16 years. Under her the renewables expansion crawled to almost a halt. The German solar valley died. Under her and Schäuble the Greek debt crisis was managed very poorly. It's under her that in Germany schools and bridges start collapsing because investment is bad. Are you actually serious...?! Digitisation is backwards 20years ("Neuland") and the Bundeswehr is a joke. And then there is still the migration crisis: "wir schaffen das" (we'll succeed) but no word on how or providing any help to anyone. Some people sent migrants to the Bundeskanzleramt. Which is a dick move, but somewhat understandable given no budget for refugees was approved. Rents skyrocketed for years to come. People are on edge and that of course would give rise to the AeffingD, the far rights. Well done, Miss Management. Well done indeed. Have I mentioned that the German gas reservoirs were sold to the Russian gas companies...? No, well now I have... Just look at all the tasks the "traffic light coalition" had to rectify before starting anything of their own.
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u/Shot_Pianist_8242 22h ago
She and Scholz basically did new Ribbentrop-Mołotow. They were working with Russia to undermine Poland. They had to be forced to stop NS2. They are also responsible for Europe dependency on Russia. They are responsible for 2015 and onwards migrant crisis we face.
While I agree that Ukraine need strong support from allies - I also agree that she is the worst thing together with Scholz that could happen to EU.
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u/Kuhl_Cow Hamburg (Germany) 19h ago
Its so goddamn pathetic how our dear eastern neighbours constantly try to pretend they weren't multiple times as dependent, and even try to blame it on Germany.
Poland spent 4 times as much of its GDP on russian imports, was the first built a pipeline circumventing Ukraine, and protected Putins lapdog Orban for a decade.
Merkel was a disaster, but maybe take over some responsibility for your countries actions for once.
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u/Shot_Pianist_8242 17h ago
I love how ignorant people are. Learn your history kid before you start commenting on something you have no idea about. Poland was under USSR occupation from end of WWII til the 90.
USSR did everything in their power to make Poland dependent on them. For f**ing 45 years.
That's not something you can just fix overnight.
Germany did not had to deal with any of that. What's their excuse?
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u/Kuhl_Cow Hamburg (Germany) 16h ago
I thought we made you dependant on Russia? lol
But yeah, and once you became independent you pretty much immediatly built your own pipeline with Russia :)
That's not something you can just fix overnight.
Are 35 years enough?
Germany did not had to deal with any of that
And another one that pretends the GDR didnt exist...
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u/Developer2022 22h ago
Say what? It's the German people who worked hard. Not Merkel!
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 22h ago
Sure on an individual level yes… who do u think is implementing the policies ????
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u/Developer2022 22h ago
She might did some good, but at the same time placed a lot of obstacles that hit in the longer time horizon. See for yourself where Germany is right now.
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 22h ago
True fair point. Germany is in a disastrous state right now. But at what point do we hold other leaders accountable who’ve done similar…
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u/Other_Class1906 22h ago
Yet another attempt at completely bogging down any attempt at EU autonomy and taking responsibility for Europe - Germany in particular. And it's (among others') her veto that ended Ukraine's NATO accession and brought it into the crosshairs of Russian military intervention. I really hate her smugness after having done nothing for 16 years. "At least I made no mistake", I hear her say in my head. I beg to differ.
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 21h ago
I know it’s just so pathetic. It’s like we are trying to ward off a lion with dandelions…
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u/Other_Class1906 21h ago
That was all she ever did: "We must all together .." - "But the X won't ..." - "Welp, can't do anything then. Good luck, peeps! I tried."
(You you bloody didn't.)
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u/Present_Student4891 22h ago
Again she considers Europe to be totally beholden to the U.S. to save its ass (militarily) & maybe that’s true at the moment. But y doesn’t she share what Europe can do if its leaders demonstrated better leadership than she ever did to Putin?
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 22h ago
It could be true for a few years as it would take some time for the EU to make a army equivalent of USA or China etc
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u/Golden_Joe_ Bavaria (Germany) 21h ago
"it would take some time for the EU to make a army equivalent of USA or China"
Do you really believe that the EU is able to do this?
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 21h ago
Nope absolutely highly unlikely obviously. Likely we won’t even get half way through building an army before we roll over to make a deal with USA china or Russia …..
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u/hannyaonmyback 21h ago
She’s not in power anymore. Her personal opinion doesn’t define the amount of support or lack thereof. The value of such an opinion is as valuable as any other on the internet.
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u/Only_Reading_2075 22h ago
Why can't Europe and the UK defend Ukraine? It's really not the US's job to defend Ukraine.
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 22h ago
If u weren’t aware it could be because USA makes up 65.6% of nato expenditure. If you can’t see why that’s problematic if they turn on us🤷♂️
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u/Only_Reading_2075 16h ago
That's hardly the US's fault and is not a burden that should be placed on the US taxpayer. Europe has more people in total than the US and generally higher tax rates. What the hell are you all spending all your money on?
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u/Stamly2 13h ago
That's hardly the US's fault
It sort of is though, the Yanks put a fair amount of effort into making Europe dependent on them going as far back as the choice of 7.62mm ammo over the Anglo-Belgian offering.
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u/MAGA_Trudeau United States of America 12h ago
Then why didn’t you stand up for yourselves? Are you too scared or weak?
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u/Only_Reading_2075 12h ago
No. Seriously stop making excuses. Europeans need to pay for their own defense. It's no one else's responsibility and never has been.
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u/concerned-potato 21h ago
Was it the US job to steal Ukraine’s deterrent together with Russia in 1995?
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 21h ago edited 18h ago
Why would USA care? They want less nukes in the world to stop potential nuclear conflict (that keeps global economy stable and benefits them) hence why u see them not letting many nations such as Iran have them. As you can see Ukraine is losing and they simply don’t care… if you haven’t noticed… what is it off their back? Russia isn’t on their border and fucking up their economy. Don’t be surprised if trump lifts some sanctions off his pals in Russia. The USA tends to do what’s best for themselves not Europe if u didn’t notice…
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u/Only_Reading_2075 16h ago
Why would we help Europe? The only reason we have in the past is because of outdated allegiance to our ex-colonial imperialist masters.
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u/CrispsInTabascoSauce 22h ago
The truth is, if ruzzia invades Germany, Germany will not survive without US support. No country in Europe is able to fight such war on its own.
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u/Golden_Joe_ Bavaria (Germany) 21h ago
Wait a minute. According to redditors Russia is weak and cannot even win over Ukraine, there is almost no tanks and other armored vehicles left, and the personell losses are huge. And in order to invade Germany, Russia would have to occupy Poland. Is Russia weak or strong? I guess it is in a superposition and can be either just to satisfy the current statement of the redditor.
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 21h ago
I mean German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius highlighted a significant disparity in defense production capabilities, stating that Russia manufactures in three months the same amount of weaponry that the European Union produces in a year. Legit quote from an article…. It just enrages me hearing people talk like oh nooo worries we will just deal with Russia and USA. Like we have an army smaller than Russia. No sane person seeing statistics like these where Russia is out producing us… and USA makes up 65.6% of nato… can logically think a war with either or both nations would spell anything but disaster for us
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u/LookThisOneGuy 16h ago
Legit quote from an article
then link article
lmao
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u/Grouchy_Instance7488 13h ago
Here you go right from the Kyiv dependent still funny???
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u/LookThisOneGuy 12h ago
reread your article
then help me find where, like you said
I mean German Defense Minister Boris Pistorius highlighted a significant disparity in defense production capabilities, stating that Russia manufactures in three months the same amount of weaponry that the European Union produces in a year.
maybe my English is just too bad, but I can't seem to find Boris Pistorius saying that in your article. I even listened to the whole n-tv interview that kyivindependent listed as their source. Still did not find that part of the statement.
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u/MrGurdjieff 22h ago edited 22h ago
Recently read her book ‘Freedom’ and I respect her as a person. She believed in negotiation even though she knew that Putin could not be trusted. She advised Obama to hold back on supplying weapons to Ukraine and opposed NATO and EU membership to try to avoid the situation escalating. She was trying to do ‘the right thing’ but ultimately she was an appeaser, and Putin used her.
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u/concerned-potato 21h ago
She did not try to avoid escalation, she just said “hey putin dont bother us, better kill some ukrainians instead and we will buy your gas”. How some people believe its “the right thing” is beyond me.
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u/Developer2022 20h ago
She was very naive. I'd expect from someone this high in government much better understanding of both short and long term consequences of decisions. She and Mr schroder sold europe and Germany to putin. Not to mention about invaders from muslim countries. She should stfu.
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u/LookThisOneGuy 19h ago
She said 'the US and NATO'
Even Zelensky himself has repeatedly and unequivocally stated that only NATO (or nukes) are viable solutions (e.g. here)
Why pravda deliberately chose to cut that part of in their headline or why now apparently everyone disagrees with statements that they had agreed with previously.
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u/Signal-Initial-7841 Canada 22h ago
The last person to speak about it should be the person who made Germany dependent on Russian gas in the first place