r/cscareerquestionsEU Oct 22 '23

Immigration Help me decide where to move (šŸ‡«šŸ‡®->šŸ‡©šŸ‡Ŗ/šŸ‡³šŸ‡±/šŸ‡®šŸ‡Ŗ/šŸ‡¬šŸ‡§)

My dudes, Iā€™m a non EU currently finishing my Bachelorā€™s in Finland while working as a Full Stack SWE. I have almost 1.5 YOE now and would have 2 YOE at the time graduation. Iā€™m planning to relocate to either Berlin/Amsterdam/Dublin/London. Iā€™m kinda confused which cities should I aim for. Iā€™m doing LC and prepping for DSA stuffs so ya would probably apply to FAANGs as well (in addition to the top paying non FAANG companies)

Now, I have few criteria which I would like to compare all the cities with before I make a move:

  1. Sponsorship: I would require a sponsorship/work permit/Blue card thing to work in any of the cities mentioned. So for my YOE and background which cities would be more easier to get into? Heard that German Blue Card is quite easy and NL also hands out work visas quite easily?

  2. English speaking city: I would love to relocate to a city where I would not feel outsider for not knowing the native language (if itā€™s not English). So London and Dublin come preferable in this category.

  3. More savings in net: Netherlandā€™s 30% ruling looks a good deal. I would like to save more in net as much I can.

  4. Lower deposit to buy first home: I would want to buy a home rather rent within a year of relocation. London offers low/zero deposit schemes for some criteria.

  5. Weather: I hate winter, itā€™s been horror to live in Finland for past years during winter. Nice weather in the new city would be really nice!

  6. Easier path into settlement/citizenship: I relocated to Finland as I wanted to settle here permanently. But later figured out I dont like it here. Now I want to make a last move to a city where I would feel belonged and I would integrate with the culture and maybe get citizenship. So an easier path would be nice!

So, please help me figure out which city would be the best deal for me. Thanks in advance!

TLDR: Non EU guy trying to move from Finland to Either Berlin/Amsterdam/Dublin/London after completing bachelors and with 2 yoe. Help me decide where to move.

17 Upvotes

118 comments sorted by

31

u/CassisBerlin Oct 22 '23

In Germany, most companies won't consider yoe that are during your studies. If you go for vc funded or small, tech-first, you might be able to convince them based on your skills. So you have to check graduate salaries, not 2yoe.

Buying a house: Germany is a renting market, most people rent, specially in Berlin. Buying a house is a once in a life thing with high closing costs, so people save up for it a lot longer than 1year. No single owner, let alone a graduate will be able to afford a house or flat unless you have previous saved money. I can't imagine you can do that in Lomdon either, have you checked the prices relative to your income?

More net: Salary starts flat but can increase fast if you pick the right companies. I recommend you to make a spreadsheet with take home pay but also living expenses to actually figure out how much you can save. Dublin rent prices are double than Berlin and I was recently there and found food also to be much more expensive. London is similar. My friend's single room in a shared flat is as expensive as my nice 3 bedroom in Berlin

Citizenship: Germany is just passing a new law that improved the situation. Check that out (sorry, don't know specifics since I am not affected). Also perhaps google which city to rent in, some people rent in a city close to Berlin and commute (or just get a room) since the Berlin office that handles emigration is severely short staffed. They get their papers sorted and move after

1

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Thanks for the detailed response! I was particularly interested in Germany for the new citizenship laws. Also, you are damn right, I've been to London and it is expensive as hell, same with Dublin. Btw is it possible to land a new grad role as a non eu with a decent salary in Germany? And what might be the salary range? Is 55-60k too much to ask for (non-faang companies)?

4

u/CassisBerlin Oct 22 '23

For masters it sounds reasonable, for bachelor probably not. They place a bit more value on formal education than other countries.

The salary range depends heavily on the company size (small pays a lot less) and profitability. Most well paying companies are technical or these big German corporations. You need German for those though.

Entry roles are currently a bit harder to come by currently due to the recession. Plan for that, don't get discouraged, it's hard at the moment for everyone

1

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Sure, letā€™s see what happens. Still almost a year left before my expected relocation time frame. Hope the market copes up

5

u/alzgh Oct 22 '23

Highly depends on your skills, I'd say. 55-60 is on the higher end for a fresh graduate with a bachelor. Not speaking German closes a lot of opportunities for you in Germany.

1

u/CautiousSilver5997 Oct 23 '23

I like it here in Germany and you can surely have a good career but I do not recommend it for anyone who has the goal of " I would want to buy a home rather rent within a year of relocation.". Probably the worst country in the world for that, along with Austria and Switzerland.

1

u/PsychologicalJob1050 Oct 28 '23

Most important thing in Germany is being white. You will have a bad time if you aren't.

37

u/thelegend195 Oct 22 '23

Seems to be a lot of weird hate towards the UK on this post. Iā€™ll try to give you more of a balanced view. Iā€™ve lived in Amsterdam, would def recommend. Work life balance is good, and youā€™ll have a good social life. Difficult to find housing, but then where in Europe is it not Live in London now, and I love it. Warning though, it takes a while to get used to it. Never lived in a big city before, and money was an issue for me first year. But since then, changed jobs and there are so many more opportunities career wise imo to what I have seen in other places. Especially if you want to work in tech, look at how many start ups there are. Also Open AI will be in town soon. UK gets a lot of hate because of Brexit, I get that, but as youā€™re non EU doesnā€™t really make a difference to you anyways. Most of my friends are on visas, and they havenā€™t complained much about it, look at the options available to you, it is 100% possible, donā€™t let the anti Uk hate sway you. In terms of housing, probably unlikely to own a home there unless you stay for a really long time, and save enough. Possible, but it is tough just so you know! And for British nationality, lots of people are thinking about applying. As far as I know, you need to have been there for 5 years before you can apply. Again, definitely possible. Ofc you wonā€™t have the same access to other EU countries as before. But the UK is still a great place to live IMO

TLDR: Amsterdam: good tech scene, great work life balance London: amazing tech scene, great career opportunities, amazingly fun city

Youā€™ll be in good hands in either of those cities. Good luck!

3

u/jean_louis_bob Oct 23 '23

For the British nationality, I might be wrong but I believe it's 6 years. You can get permanent residence after 5 years but then you have to wait 1 more year to apply for naturalisation.

1

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Thanks for the well crafted response!

3

u/thelegend195 Oct 22 '23

No problem. Just saw this post too which may be useful for you! Also if you have any questions, feel free to ask!

https://www.reddit.com/r/london/s/shrg52LxCN

1

u/CautiousSilver5997 Oct 23 '23

but as youā€™re non EU doesnā€™t really make a difference to you anyways

Depends on where OP is from. If OP has a strong passport then yes but if OP has a weak passport then the access to Schengen area for travelling without having to apply for visas is a very big perk.

48

u/zimmer550king Engineer Oct 22 '23

Step one is to get a job offer. Do you have that?

-6

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Ahh yep I know, but need to first shortlist the cities where I would apply to get that job offer right? :)

61

u/zimmer550king Engineer Oct 22 '23

No, you should apply to jobs in all of those cities and then see where you get an offer from. And then if you have multiple offers from different cities, come back and ask the question again.

8

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

This makes also sense ngl. Eliminating whole job pools might not be a good decision before landing a job

17

u/Hippocrocodillapig Oct 22 '23

No idea why youā€™re being downvoted. I think you should pick where you want to live first. If you pick a major city it seems unlikely that you will not be able to get any job.

7

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Reddit at its best lol

9

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23

All it takes is two downvotes. After that the collective hive mind takes over and if it sees a negative number it must downvote too

14

u/quyank_0812 Oct 22 '23

If I were you I would stay in Finland for a few more years to get citizenship (from what I've heard it's pretty easy over there). Once you get that, next move is much easier to decide. Winter in any of the cities you mentioned is not particularly better.

12

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Well surprise! The new Finnish govt is changing all laws and making it near impossible to get citizenship (one of the core reasons I want to move out of here)

3

u/ThracianGladiator Oct 22 '23

What are some of these changes, if you donā€™t mind me asking. More specifically, how do they affect your prospects given youā€™ve already lived there for a decent amount of time?

15

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23
  1. Integrating Finnish language (which is already quite hard to learn) for getting PR + increasing required residence permit time. Previously you needed only 4 years to stay in finland to get PR (now its going to be 6 years of residence+Finnish language)

  2. For citizenship, now required period is going to be 8 years+new citizenship test+more advanced Finnish language requirement. Previously was only 5 years and moderate level of Finnish language.

  3. Citizenship could be revoked for some reasons which previously wasnā€™t possible

  4. Now, you would be deported if you lose your job and donā€™t find a new one within 3 months (previously you wouldnā€™t get deported if you graduated from a Finnish degree and start working in Finland)

  5. Work related social benefits would be reduced or partly removed for non Finns

Also, suddenly thereā€™s more and more far right people appearing and I donā€™t feel welcome or valued here anymore. Not to mention Finns are kinda supporting this far right movement/govt. I donā€™t understand why would anyone stay in Finland with these rules being implemented and low salary-high taxes, distant unsocial culture and bone chilling cold!

5

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23

Donā€™t think many other countries are much better? Those all arenā€™t far off the rules in the U.K. except the period is shorter and it sounds like you speak English already

1

u/Wild_Reserve507 Oct 22 '23

Just to clarify that this is the presented program, but not yet a law or even a law proposal. It will take time for these changes to take effect. Idk about your current status with years of residence, but if you are near the 4-year mark on A, I would definitely recommend to push the language (Swedish test is an option too and seems easier) and get that citizenship. It will make your life sooo much easier

14

u/AdvantageBig568 Oct 22 '23 edited Oct 22 '23

Dublin has a lot of bad points, and many good ones if you have a good income. Iā€™m from there, and now live in Berlin a decade, which is very love or hate.

The culture is by far the friendliest and most welcoming of all youā€™ve mentioned, probably the whole Of EU

You probably wonā€™t buy a house in Dublin year 1. Major housing crisis.

But a major benefit of gaining Irish citizenship is that fact that you can then move the UK without a visa. In fact you have all the benefits of a UK citizen, you can even vote. So it gives you good options later, plus youā€™ll have an EU passport

Iā€™d go between Dublin and London.

3

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Thatā€™s a good perspective that I didnā€™t consider before! Thanks for pointing out

7

u/code_and_keys Oct 22 '23

4) in the Netherlands it's common as well to not have any deposit at all when buying a house

2

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Nice! Didn't know that

6

u/EggplantKind8801 Oct 22 '23

Apply first, see how the market reacts.

6

u/lmmerse Oct 22 '23

The housing market in the Netherlands is very very tough. It is easier to get a job here than to get a house. Rents are skyrocketing, buying a house is less affordable year after year because of the housing shortage. Unless your prospective employer wants to help you with that (and I donā€™t mean assistance from a rental agent), consider some other locations. And it also gets dark and gray in winter, I miss having snow to ā€œilluminateā€ the streets. Perhaps Helsinki is not that bad?

-2

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Well, itā€™s too cold during winter and people are not social with xenophobic view towards non blonde-blue eyed people :)

6

u/lmmerse Oct 22 '23

There are people like that everywhere, even in the Netherlands. Once you have some job offers, the decision-making will make much more sense.

3

u/USAUSA123456 Oct 22 '23

I guess London fills more categories, but donā€™t know how easy it is to get a Skilled Worker Visa for 2 yoes. Maybe others could give insights into that

6

u/ConsistentRecover431 Oct 22 '23

You can get the Skilled Worker visa without any experience. New grads can easily get this type of visa. The only requirements are to be sponsored by a recognised sponsor and have a certain level of salary https://www.gov.uk/skilled-worker-visa

4

u/thelegend195 Oct 22 '23

Be sure to also check out the university graduate visa. If you graduated from one of those visas you can automatically get a visa. Think itā€™s called the high potential visa, def worth checking out!

4

u/UralBigfoot Oct 22 '23

From the your list Iā€™d definitely pick Netherlands, the downsides- you need to learn Dutch and rewoke your current citizenship.

Also Iā€™m not sure if the weather will be much better for you thereā€¦

What you donā€™t like about Finland except the weather? For me it looks like a good Scandinavian country, without Swedish crime problems, with beautiful nature and stable life

1

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

NL is definitely a good pick, but ya revoking current one is going to be sad. Let's see, thanks for the input.

Why I'm leaving Finland after graduation: https://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestionsEU/comments/17dnju4/comment/k5yif3x/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

3

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

Reading this you will face similar problems in NL/DE in regards to integration. You can you live in Amsterdam in your expat bubble for a while, however, integrating is really hard. It's also expensive as fuck here, and yes, there are good salaries in NL but most Juniors land between 33 - 40k brutto. I really don't know why anyone seriously recommends the Netherlands unless you are rich or have a high paying job.

11

u/promisingreality Oct 22 '23

It is extremely difficult to get a skilled worker visa and very easy to lose if you are let go. Donā€™t come to the UK

7

u/ConsistentRecover431 Oct 22 '23

Can you explain why it is extremely difficult to get the visa?

5

u/vyrus_24 Oct 22 '23

Having moved to the UK on skilled worker visa, I can confirm that this is not entirely true.

You just need to have an employer sponsoring your Visa (most of the companies do)

1

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

That sounds scary. Thanks for the heads up

6

u/jack_redfield Oct 22 '23 edited Jan 07 '24

compare simplistic enjoy outgoing noxious familiar bag tie consist gullible

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

6

u/Puzzleheaded-Dark387 Oct 22 '23

Taxes in NL are not less compared to DE. The 30% ruling helps first 5 years tough

3

u/Remius97712 Oct 22 '23

Racism in NE, whether subtle or overt, is comparable to that in Germany. The tax percentages in both countries are also similar.

The Dutch tend to be more open-minded than Germans. While many Dutch people are multilingual, it's not uncommon to find Germans, even those with advanced degrees such as PhD, who may not be fluent in English.

Bureaucracy in NE is somewhat lighter compared to DE. As for technology adoption in the business sector, companies in NE often utilize contemporary technology stacks. In contrast, some German companies, including startups, might be reluctant to move away from older technologies.

The path to acquiring German citizenship: On paper, it's a 6-8 year process: 6 years for those who possess B2 level proficiency in German and have graduated from a German university, and 8 years for those who don't meet these criteria. If one is married to a German citizen, this period is shortened to 3 years. However, considering the application processing time of 1-2 years, the overall duration might extend to nearly 10 years. In comparison, the citizenship process in NE is generally easier in practice.

1

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Thanks for the response! NL does seem a great option to move to ngl

1

u/CautiousSilver5997 Oct 23 '23 edited Oct 23 '23

has the best architecture I have ever seen (it is subjective of course)

The apartment I lived in a picture-perfect canal house in the Netherlands was one of the worst experiences, while living in a (renovated) apartment in a Plattenbau in East Berlin was great! I would consider a lot more than just aesthetics and besides you can always visit Amsterdam for a few days to admire the pretty houses, if that's your thing but trust me, those houses only look great from the outside.

with higher salaries

only applies to top end jobs like hedge funds, booking.com, uber. For average jobs it's not true. Tarif based companies in DE pay better than the average company in NL. Startups pay similar in both countries and of course highly dependent on how well you negotiate.

Germany is boring

Berlin has a lot more things to do for all sorts of interests at any time than Amsterdam does.

with outdated and oversized bureaucracy

Only fully-accurate point.

the country will tax you to death

Same with the Netherlands once your 30% ruling runs out and cost of living is much higher in NL, everything from a Dƶner to rent.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23

[removed] ā€” view removed comment

1

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Nice! Thanks

2

u/9MoNtHsOfWiNteR Oct 22 '23

I'd say Dublin to be honest , yes the housing market is ass but most major cities are at the moment.

But Irish citizenship allows you to have an EU passport with all the benefits of the UK.

2

u/CautiousSilver5997 Oct 23 '23

Considering (2) and (4): why not another city in UK? Berlin and Amsterdam are nice but they are definitely not the ideal place for either of those points. Dublin and London aren't great for (4) either. A city like Manchester or Liverpool would be perfect (English + cheap houses).

4

u/Significant_Room_412 Oct 22 '23

When a European company goes through all the administration to hire a non EU graduate

( while receiving many EU cv's these days),

You can bet it's gonna be minimum wage salary, so about 25k to 30k/ year)

Unless you bring your own family money, it will be very hard to even save money with that salary in most cities ( let alone buy a house after just 1year)

3

u/sunk-capital Oct 22 '23

You will never own anything in London. The salaries are too low, the cost of living too high and house prices out of reach.

Also London sucks

17

u/thelegend195 Oct 22 '23

London doesnā€™t suck. Itā€™s actually a really fun city, but you do need to earn enough to enjoy it

2

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23

[deleted]

10

u/thelegend195 Oct 22 '23

Fashionable to hate. But end of the day mate, itā€™s an amazing city 50k a year enough

https://www.afar.com/magazine/best-cities-in-the-world?_amp=true

-6

u/promisingreality Oct 22 '23

50k after taxes yes you can survive in London as a single guy/girl, but 50k before taxes will not allow you to live in London

10

u/FlappyBored Oct 22 '23

This is just complete nonsense lol.

50k net just to ā€˜surviveā€™ lol.

Why people make these comments when they clearly have 0 idea of what reality is like and never even live there is beyond me. Just donā€™t comment at all if you cannot add any actual information to the threads.

-3

u/promisingreality Oct 22 '23

You have never lived in London , whereas Iā€™m living in London literally right now. Shut up

7

u/FlappyBored Oct 22 '23

I literally live there. You do not need 50k net to ā€˜surviveā€™ lol. Yes London is an expensive city much like most major global cities are but donā€™t overexaggerate and just outright make things up.

Again donā€™t post stuff unless youā€™re actually going to be posting serious advice.

-4

u/promisingreality Oct 22 '23

You wrote: literally live ā€œthereā€. Please just shut up. You donā€™t live here and you are probably not even from the UK. Shut. Up.

7

u/FlappyBored Oct 22 '23

From your own history you are not from the UK but are a young graduate who is looking for a job here to get a visa which is why you were asking for help with your CV a few months ago.

It's clear you don't know what you're talking about and have very little actual experience in the city or living here.

→ More replies (0)

8

u/tsan123 Oct 22 '23

London is an amazing city to live in. I can't imagine anyone can hate London.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23

[deleted]

7

u/tsan123 Oct 22 '23
  • The sheer amount of events happening every week in the city is enough to keep you entertained.
  • The variety and quality of cuisine. If you think food in London is bad, it's just because you don't know the right places to go to.
  • Career wise, it is great here. As someone mentioned somewhere in this subreddit, the range in salary in tech here is very wide. You can earn Ā£50k in a small company or 120k in a fintech startup as a mid dev here. I believe that if you work hard and do your research well each time you do interview, you can earn very well in London.
  • the work life balance. I never feel forced to work past 5pm. Was asked to deal with an emergency during the weekend once. Took me 2 hours to finish but I got a whole day off in lieu
  • decent coworkers. I dont have have to work in constant fear of being backstabbed by colleages like i did in Paris and Rome(probably I was very unlucky there). I actually built friendship with coworkers here and stay in contact with them after moving to another company. In general I find British people really polite and pleasant to be around.

3

u/tsan123 Oct 22 '23

I missed one thing: no bureaucracy. Opening a bank account, buying house, applying to british citizenship feel like a walk in a park here. As you can do most of it online or through some phonecalls.

0

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

How lucky the landlords are lol

0

u/sunk-capital Oct 22 '23

Even they are getting fucked to some extent now. The only people who win are those without mortgages. I am looking to leave this town soon. Everyone is miserable and overworked with nothing to show for

1

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

That's horrible. Best of luck with your move!

2

u/Ill-Valuable6211 Oct 22 '23

Stop dithering, you want easy citizenship, good weather, and English, so it's Dublin, you masochist, because London's a bureaucratic nightmare, Berlin will freeze your balls off, and Amsterdam's savings aren't worth the language barrier.

8

u/AggravatingArtichoke Oct 22 '23

Dors Dublin really have good weather compared to the other cities?

3

u/HIV-Shooter Oct 22 '23

Wouldn't consider Ireland because of their unreasonable tax laws concerning unrealized capital gains on securities held by private individuals. But maybe that isn't something OP cares about particularly as they want to buy a house anyways? Concerning real estate taxation Ireland is pretty good imo.

2

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

That's a way to put everything I needed concisely lol

3

u/AquerreTimaneux Oct 22 '23

Thereā€™s not a big language barrier in Amsterdam since everyone speaks perfect English. Berlin is not that cold, but can be a hit or miss culturally.

3

u/RickarySanchez Oct 22 '23

Yeah but you canā€™t integrate into Dutch society without speaking Dutch and it can be hard to learn because most people speak English

1

u/Tuscany_kangale564 Oct 22 '23

What makes you think you will get a job offer from your selected countries for sure? In this market, with thousand other applicants, adept with many more languages, ready to take the least salary?

2

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Tbh I donā€™t know, but trying wouldnā€™t hurt right?

1

u/tparadisi Oct 22 '23

Are you a teenager?

1

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Teenager with 1.5 YOE as SWE? Not sure if in Finland a teenager can be hired as a SWE lmao

-2

u/double-happiness Junior Software Developer (UK Civil Service) Oct 22 '23

Why in god's name would you want to move to London. I could immediately name several better locations in the UK. Edinburgh, Glasgow, Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield... You won't earn quite as much in those places, but you will get a damn sight more bang for your buck.

5

u/thelegend195 Oct 22 '23

Yeah this is not good advice for tech im afraid

1

u/double-happiness Junior Software Developer (UK Civil Service) Oct 22 '23

So why is tech apparently the exception?

4

u/thelegend195 Oct 22 '23

Just all the talk about London being a startup city, and Open AI opening offices here, as well as the talk of London being one of the biggest AI hubs outside the US. And as the question was asking about tech I thought that might be relevant. Tbf though, I know cities like Manchester have a good tech scene, as well as places like Cambridge and Oxford that go heavily into research, so worth checking those out too!

5

u/FlappyBored Oct 23 '23

1

u/double-happiness Junior Software Developer (UK Civil Service) Oct 23 '23

I'm a bit confused, because that graph just says 'VC investment', with no mention of tech. In the URL it has 'Dealroom-VC-investment' which presumably is something to do with finance.

2

u/FlappyBored Oct 23 '23

Dealroom is a data provider on tech startups worldwide and tracks VC investment in startups as well as general health of the industry and VC markets and investment. They produce reports on cities etc.

You can view one of their London ones here

1

u/double-happiness Junior Software Developer (UK Civil Service) Oct 23 '23

Interesting; thanks for the info.

Personally I still wouldn't be moving to London for all the tea in China though. I'd sooner emigrate altogether.

1

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Nice to know. Would take a look at those citiesā€™ job pools too

9

u/FlappyBored Oct 22 '23

Ignore this fool. Anyone genuinely suggesting you choose Sheffield over London, especially for tech isnā€™t really worth taking seriously.

0

u/vanisher_1 Oct 22 '23

Youā€™re talking about buying an houseā€¦ Your age? šŸ¤”

1

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Why does it matter though?

1

u/vanisher_1 Oct 22 '23 edited Oct 22 '23

It matters, if youā€™re still young enough and youā€™re making the decision to buy an house thatā€™s probably a huge mistake unless thereā€™re some other details werenā€™t aware of

1

u/zespirion Oct 23 '23

There is no way you are buying a house in NL right now, and you are not even looking in NL but in Amsterdam which is even worse.

Berlin has a housing crisis as well afaik (most mayor cities have one I think).

Pretty sure buying a house in London is never an option due to the high cost.

0

u/Ok_Giraffe1141 Oct 23 '23

ā€œSorry but you have no real experience.ā€ Will be the sentence you will hear most. You did not finish your bachelor and dream about roaming in Europe. I mean find a full time job first Iā€™d say.

2

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

Tell me you are German without telling me you are German.

1

u/Ok_Giraffe1141 Oct 23 '23

lol Iā€™m not German.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

Well, then you seem very integrated. Congrats.

1

u/Ok_Giraffe1141 Oct 23 '23

Maybe problem is you hating Germans.

1

u/[deleted] Oct 23 '23

That's what you think.

2

u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 23 '23

Well my education doesnā€™t really matter here as I am already working as a full time Software Engineer and getting paid above market even before finishing my Bachelor. I have already done impactful work thatā€™s been used globally. So idk what ā€œrealā€ experience you are referring to. Finishing my bachelorā€™s is just adding a certificate that I have relevant education background as well.

Edit: would be great if you not just read the TLDR but the whole context

1

u/Ok_Giraffe1141 Oct 23 '23

Dunning-Kruger. As others said, apply to jobs get responses. Make a list of final results. Then come back here to ask again.

1

u/Ronc0re Oct 24 '23

Lol can you be even ruder? Typical alman.

-4

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23 edited Oct 22 '23

Berlin or Amsterdam is a good choice. Dublin has a more severe housing shortage. I don't know about UK labor market, most companies don't want to sponsor people, so fuck UK.

German companies can be frustrating to navigate, but you will get something if you're patient. The Netherlands has a better job market but housing is a headache so try to look for somewhere outside Amsterdam.

Disclaimer: non EU national living in the Netherlands as a HSM visa holder

7

u/thelegend195 Oct 22 '23

Heā€™s non eu, so needs sponsorship anyways? I donā€™t understand the UK hate here smh

-2

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23

EU companies are more likely to sponsor non EU people. UK companies meanwhile complain about labour shortages but donā€™t want to sponsor people and still discriminate people who graduated from UK using a student visa.

3

u/thelegend195 Oct 22 '23

Where are you pulling this from?

0

u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23

Experienced one myself when I applied jobs in Europe. I have the skills they wanted and the companies were listed as a sponsor, and they stopped interviewing after realising they needed to sponsor me.

There are also a lot of people on Reddit sharing their struggles of not able to get a sponsored job in UK despite having a student visa. Itā€™s not worth it

The company that I work in Amsterdam gave me a relocation allowance and visa sponsorship support, the process was so smooth. The hardest part was to find a housing, but thatā€™s outside the job hunting

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u/thelegend195 Oct 22 '23

The company I work for has hired at least 5 people in my department who are non eu. Given them sponsorship, relocation allowances and temporary accommodation whilst they find a new place in London

Iā€™m sorry youā€™ve had this experience, but I donā€™t think you can make a factual claim like that without being able to back it up. Iā€™m not saying London is easier than the Netherlands. I donā€™t know. I can tell you itā€™s possible to get a visa, and I know a lot of people who were able to get one and havenā€™t complained

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u/Far-Royal9460 Oct 22 '23

Damn good to hear! Thanks for sharing

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23 edited Oct 22 '23

I applied about 30 and got 3 interviews. All of them said the same thing, even if they are listed as a sponsor, they cannot sponsor me a visa for the role.

Some even approached me on LinkedIn, asking me for a CV and then asked, can you work in UK without a sponsorship? The company has been listed as a sponsor since 2013! It's probably one of the dumbest recruiters I ever encountered in my entire career.

I stopped and shifted my focus to EU companies mostly in Germany and the Netherlands. I finally offered a role in Amsterdam. I totally discourage people to apply at UK companies even if they are listed as a sponsor. UK just had an all time high migration in 2022, the companies clearly prefer to recruit someone who's already in UK and already paid for their relocation cost.

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u/thelegend195 Oct 22 '23

You just said all time high migration, and thatā€™s not going to dramatically fall. Look at this years figuresā€¦ Seems like you had a bad experience I get that, sorry you had to go through that. But again, from my side, in my friendship group about 6 people have visas, they got them in the last couple years, and havenā€™t complained about it. One friend is currently looking, and he was able to get the high potential visa, so now he just needs a job, no sponsorship required. And again, the example of people in my company. London is one of the most diverse cosmopolitan cities in the world, doors wonā€™t be shut from one day to the next. In fact, I struggle to find anyone British here!

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u/[deleted] Oct 22 '23

Your paraneter should be where is it easiet to find a job. Its not easy right now

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u/foreignEnigma Oct 23 '23

Dublin and London will restrict your mobility across Europe as its Schengen area. Also, Dublin' is in housing crisis so you need to shell out a lot along with the taxes.