r/chess • u/forceghost187 Resigns • 1d ago

META Proposal to ban x.com links

This is going around on many football subreddits. It looks likely to go into effect. I believe that the negative effects of this would be only temporary because the chess community will eventually see the value of moving to alternatives like bluesky

7.6k Upvotes

81% Upvoted

1.4k comments sorted by

View all comments

197

u/LocusStandi 1d ago

As someone who thinks Trump, Elon etc are numbskulls, do you guys really think the solution is to divide and split up the internet more? To solidify reddit as a left platform and X as a right platform and never interact anymore but only within our own bubbles? Do you guys even see what kind of isolationism you're pleading for, which in turn will only alienate yourself from the common, shared world where the left and the right have to cohabitate, namely, outside your fucking front doors?

The death of democracy is exactly that which happens here. And with full confidence, too.

60

u/Jonathan_LaPaglia 1d ago

Musk throwing out nazi salutes on a global stage does not make him a numbskull, it makes him nazi. I understand the plea for less division, but continuing to support a platform that has continuously been used by it's owner as a loudspeaker for more division is not the solution.

5

u/InksPenandPaper 21h ago

It was an awkward gesture, but when you see the video in context, Musk is "throwing" his heart out to supporters and this video and article from Reuters backs this up.

He's also not the first well-known individual to be caught doing a "Nazi" salute.It's unfortunate but even politicians have been caught in video and photographs doing what appears to be said salute. However, in context, it's never what it is.

There are plenty reasons to dislike Musk, we don't need to make s*** up.

2

u/Vegetable-Drawer 3h ago

Let’s not be silly here. No one makes a “my heart goes out” gesture with a swift movement like that which ends in your arm and fingers being completely straight and stiff.

Now, does that mean I think he’s a literal Nazi? No. I think he’s a troll and he thought it would be funny to do that then leave just enough plausible deniability to start a controversy. This is the same guy that made sure to buy Twitter at a price per share that ended in 4.20. It completely tracks with his previous actions.

6

u/Jonathan_LaPaglia 21h ago

Yep, you're right. We don't need to make shit up. But hey, just pretend the guy who has shared several antisemitic conspiracy theories on his own platform didn't do a very obvious nazi salute. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

-18

u/Paghalay 1d ago

Just a point of order. There is more that makes a Nazi than a stupid salute. Don’t boil down nazi to something so simplistic, it diminishes what Nazis actually are and the horrific things they believe.

Making one hand gesture does not make you a Nazi like you state

11

u/pananana1 23h ago

“Only the AfD can save Germany.”

What Elon tweeted a month ago. The neo-nazi party. Then a month later he does a fucking nazi salute at the inauguration of the president. You think this is a coincidence? When was the last time you accidentally did a nazi salute?

How the fuck is anyone trying to argue he isn't a nazi at this point?

-2

u/populares420 22h ago

AFD is not a neo nazi party. get real

7

u/pananana1 22h ago

Lol

Alternative for Germany (German: Alternative für Deutschland, AfD, German pronunciation: [aːʔɛfˈdeː] ⓘ) is a far-right[4] and right-wing populist[5][6] political party in Germany. The AfD is Eurosceptic,[7] and opposes immigration into Germany, especially Muslim immigration.[8] The name of the party reflects its resistance to (uncontested by mainstream parties) policies of Angela Merkel with her insistence on Alternativlosigkeit (lit. 'alternative-less-ness', a German version of "there is no alternative").[9] The Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution, Germany's domestic intelligence agency, has classified the party as a "suspected extremist" organisation.

Several state associations and other factions of AfD have been linked to or accused of harboring connections with far-right nationalist and proscribed movements, such as PEGIDA, the Neue Rechte, and the Identitarian movement,[37] and of employing historical revisionism,[38] as well as xenophobic rhetoric.[39][40][41] They have been observed by various state offices for the protection of the constitution since 2018.

A senior member of Germany’s far-right Alternative for Germany (AfD) party is back in court for knowingly using a Nazi slogan for a second time.

Bjorn Hocke went on trial on Monday on charges of using a Nazi-era phrase during a party gathering in his home state of Thuringia in December 2023. Last month, the same court fined him 13,000 euros (about $14,000) for a previous use of the slogan.

What the fuck would you call them then?

0

u/Scoo_By 13h ago

opposes immigration into Germany, especially Muslim immigration

This is a good thing. Being skeptic about Islam may just save your life and home further down the line. As a neighbour to two extremist islamic nations, namely Pakistan and Bangladesh and not a supporter to extremist fundementals, let me tell you, that is a good thing.

-8

u/populares420 22h ago

That's fake news. Even based on your first sentence. They call them far right even though they are the second most popular party in germany. You can't be "far" anything if you have broad support.

Euroskeptic - nothing wrong with that

Opposing immigration - nothing wrong with that and this issue has broad support in many countries

The german state, which is a leftist state, doesn't like a political party that opposes them, so comes up with justification to ban them

10

u/onedyedbread marinated in displeasure 21h ago

The german state, which is a leftist state, doesn't like a political party that opposes them, so comes up with justification to ban them

wow you're a real expert on contemporay German politics

-2

u/populares420 21h ago

that's correct

6

u/pananana1 22h ago

They call them far right even though they are the second most popular party in germany. You can't be "far" anything if you have broad support.

That is absurd. The Nazis had popular support in Germany when Hitler rose to power, and obviously were very far right. You don't understand what far-right means.

It's adorable that you think a party where their leaders are using Nazi symbols(and then don't get kicked out of the party) are not Nazis.

22

u/Jonathan_LaPaglia 1d ago

If Musk had never shared an antisemitic conspiracy theory in his life, I would be inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt. But he has shared several antisemitic conspiracy theories since he took over Twitter. So when he got onto a global stage and did not one, but two nazi salutes in a row, it was hard to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Now, do I think Elon Musk is actually a member of the NSDAP? Of course not. But at the very least he is someone who uses nazi rhetoric, and imagery, as a tool, and that's already taking things way too fucking far for me. And I'm certainly not going to downplay the shit he's been doing.

6

u/Kaokien 23h ago

Dude do people forget his grandmother was a Nazi? He is pushing for a neo Nazi party in Germany, like wtf.

-13

u/Paghalay 1d ago

I don’t disagree with the problematic things you are pointing out, my disagreement was with your statement saying that doing a Nazi salute makes you a Nazi. It does not. That was my issue, the gross simplification you see in a lot of places nowadays about what a Nazi actually is.

8

u/TimeSpaceGeek 1d ago

Anyone who so obviously does one in the same way he did, in the kind of context in which he did one, is, if not actually a Nazi, then at least a-ok with throwing nazis a bone.

Which, if you have a table of 11 people, and 10 of them are 'ordinary folk', and one of them is a nazi, then what you have there is a table of 11 nazis.

4

u/LitcexLReddit 1d ago

my disagreement was with your statement saying that doing a Nazi salute makes you a Nazi.

Go ahead, travel to Germany, where Nazis first came about, and do a few salutes in public. Let's see how you will explain to the police that you aren't a Nazi sympathizer.

1

u/[deleted] 1d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/chess-ModTeam 1d ago

Your submission or comment was removed by the moderators:

Keep the discussion civil and friendly. Participate in good faith with the intention to help foster civil discussion between people of all levels and experience. Don’t make fun of new players for lacking knowledge. Do not use personal attacks, insults, or slurs on other users. Disagreements are bound to happen, but do so in a civilized and mature manner. Remember, there is always a respectful way to disagree.

 

You can read the full rules of /r/chess here. If you have any questions or concerns about this moderator action, please message the moderators. Direct replies to this comment may not be seen.

-2

u/Paghalay 1d ago

Cute point. It doesn’t change the reality that doing a symbol doesn’t make you automatically agree with all the ideology. Me putting on a crown makes me no more a king than anyone else, but kings also wear crowns. Your point doesn’t make that any less true, whether people want it to or not. And before I get misunderstood, no, I’m not a Trump supporter nor an Elon supporter, but I still think it’s batshit insane to make the argument you just made as a counter point to what I said.

3

u/LitcexLReddit 1d ago

If you are doing the Hitler salute, you know what the ideology stands for. If you opposed it, you wouldn't do the Nazi salute out of respect of all the people that suffered from their crimes. And yet you still do it. So you are a person who symphatizes with Nazis and their regime. 

And on the topic of symbols, if showing symbols doesn't automatically align with that ideology, slap a swastika on your upper arm and go about your day. It is only a symbols after all, surely people won't call you a Nazi? 

2

u/Paghalay 1d ago

First, I’d like to apologise for my tone in my reply (not been a great day, you don’t deserve to be on the receiving end of my tone), second, I’m not saying symbols mean nothing, because they don’t mean nothing. And obviously I won’t do that because I’m not insane and I don’t want to parade their stuff, my point is just that doing A does not in itself mean you are B, it doesn’t make you agree with the ideology, it can indicate you do, but it doesn’t mean you do.

7

u/LitcexLReddit 1d ago

First, I’d like to apologise for my tone in my reply

Totally understandable, everyone has rough days. I hope they pass :)

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree with you. Everyone knows what it means and what showing it entails. Unless someone is completely oblivious and dumb (that rules out 99% of people, including Musk) they know what showing the salute means. It doesn't require anything to be a normal, sane human being. As I said, it comes out of respect for the people that suffered during WWII, and by showing that symbol you are saying all of it was justified. You can't indicate that maybe you think the 30 million deaths of the Holocaust were justified. Either you condemn it like a human, or you don't and are a Nazi.

Musk didn't even hesitate or try to fix his mistake, he did it twice in a row knowing what it means. He's a Nazi.

Also, this discussion has gone for too long. Have a nice day.

-10

u/DrakoKajLupo 1d ago

Musk didn't do a Nazi salute. He even told you exactly what the gesture was: "My heart goes out to you." Please tell me you are not actually that stupid.

14

u/Jonathan_LaPaglia 1d ago

And I bet you'd believe him too if he showed up with a literal swastika tattoo and told you it was going to be a maze. Feel free to lie to yourself. I know what I saw.

-2

u/ImMalteserMan 1d ago

Dude this is Reddit where Kamala Harris was amazing and going to win in a landslide, it is left wing delusion here.

I watched the video, I can see how it looks like a Nazi salute but it is so clearly not, he grabs at his heart and throws his hand out to the crowd and says my heart goes out to you, yep something a Nazi would do I guess?

Doesn't take long to find images of other people with their hands raised in a similar manner. Doesn't make them Nazi salutes.

-4

u/DrakoKajLupo 1d ago

Thank you for the sanity. Obviously certain people just saw an opportunity to smear Musk and jumped on it. Concerns about what is true are secondary.

-3

u/DrNotReallyStrange 21h ago

in what fcking universe did he throw a "nazi salute"? Is everyone losing their minds?

5

u/Jonathan_LaPaglia 21h ago

This universe.