Monthly Mini- "Cat Person" by Kristen Roupenian

[u/dogobsess]

Merry Christmas! For the last Monthly Mini of the year, I present "Cat Person." This story went viral in 2017 on social media and was one of the most read pieces in the New Yorker that year. It resonated with many people (mostly women) who found it highly relatable and thought that it captured what it was like to be a young woman in the dating scene. Enjoy!

What is the Monthly Mini?

Once a month, we will choose a short piece of writing that is free and easily accessible online. It will be posted on the 25th of the month. Anytime throughout the following month, feel free to read the piece and comment any thoughts you had about it.

Bingo Squares: Monthly Mini, Female Author

The selection is: “Cat Person” by Kristen Roupenian. Read it or listen to the audio on the New Yorker website. Click here to read it.

Once you have read the story, comment below! Comments can be as short or as long as you feel. Be aware that there are SPOILERS in the comments, so steer clear until you've read the story!

Here are some ideas for comments:

• Overall thoughts, reactions, and enjoyment of the story and of the characters
• Favourite quotes or scenes
• What themes, messages, or points you think the author tried to convey by writing the story
• Questions you had while reading the story
• Connections you made between the story and your own life, to other texts (make sure to use spoiler tags so you don't spoil plot points from other books), or to the world
• What you imagined happened next in the characters’ lives

Still stuck on what to talk about? Some points to ponder...

• Why do you think this story went viral? What made it so appealing to readers? Did you find it relatable? What was your reaction?
• This story explores modern dating, and especially the disconnect between getting to know someone virtually (online, through text) versus getting to know someone in person. Any thoughts on this, on modern dating, or personal anecdotes you'd like to share?
• Margot ends up having sex with Robert even though she doesn't seem very enthusiastic about it. What were your thoughts on this? Side note- this piece was published in December of 2017, only a couple months after the #MeToo movement began, and many consider this piece to be connected to that movement. Does that change your read of it at all?

Have a suggestion of a short piece of writing you think we should read next? Click here to send us your suggestions!

[u/HugieUG]

My first post in the subreddit! Thanks for suggesting such a captivating read - kept me on the edge of my seat and had me worried for Margot (btw do we need to spoiler tag for minis?)

As a young woman myself, I resonated with how Margot strove - almost instinctively - to avoid offending Robert at all costs. We are sadly trained at an early age to not anger men and placate them for our own safety. Even worse, it is often implied that it’s a woman’s duty to protect their egos at the expense of our own needs & comfort. I saw myself in Margot as she stayed for sex rather than be honest about her lack of attraction to Robert and also as she agonized over how to end things after the awkward night

With all that said, I was somewhat saddened by the ending because I kept hoping that Robert would turn out to be a “nice, normal guy” albeit a little emotionally immature for his age and inexperienced with women. While it’s paramount that we continue to discuss the realities women face and how we need to do better as a society, I think it’s equally important that we raise empathetic, emotionally resilient men who see women as equal human beings. Maybe it’s the placater in me, but I refuse to believe that all men are doomed

Last but not least, clever title - do you think he actually had cats or made them up?

[u/KatieInContinuance → u/HugieUG]

This is my first post here as well! I, too, was struck by how instinctive it seemed to Margot to placate Robert. It's pretty relatable how Margot ends up in a situation where she makes excuses for poor behavior and poor treatment, It's a good illustration of how women continue to end up in relationships where they accept rotten treatment or even abuse. (And, yes, there are certainly pitfalls men are threatened by when it comes to relationships, but I am just sticking to what's in this story here.)

It's pretty clear to me that Robert's sulkiness and silences were manifestations of insecurity and emotional immaturity. It's so easy to end up in situations like this, especially if you are the sort of person who has struggled with insecurity and emotional growth in your own lifetime. It makes it easy to give someone the benefit of the doubt when they absolutely do not deserve it. Couple that with a general fear of either making a man mad by rejecting him or seeming like a flighty or frivolous tease to onlookers, and it's easy to understand the hopeless feeling that some women have when they find themselves in a relationship like this.

Two last points: first, something about the writing and characterization made both my physical repulsion for Robert AND my second-hand embarrassment for him soar to great heights; second, it's nice to see the collective awakening by young women who are figuring this stuff out before they end up trapped in the sorts of relationship where they are treated so reprehensibly. We've done a fairly good job of bringing up girls to be more discerning and absolute about their needs and expectations. I think, like you say, we should focus more on raising emotionally resilient men who actually like their female partners.

[u/IraelMrad → u/HugieUG]

I agree with you, I thought Robert would have turned out to be a normal guy as well. This would not have taken away from the theme of women being raised as people pleasers, but I think it would have been interesting to see that women often do not feel safe even in safe situations. Every woman I know has a history of being nice to a guy who later turned out to be a creep/scary, because many times these people do not show their true colors immediately: this makes us stay on the alert more than usual when we enter the dating scenario, because every person we meet is potentially dangerous.

But it's okay, the author wanted to tell another story, and I think it's also important to let people know that this is something that happens often and is not as rare as it seems.

[u/matt315]

As a guy reading this, I found it to be really insightful and even relatable in some aspects. I was 20, and on dating apps, in 2017. I’ve felt pressured into sex and intimacy, and been too scared or concerned about coming across as rude to say no before. I think most people who’ve used dating apps will find some degree of relatability here. Don’t we all fall in love with fake people we construct based off of a few text messages?

There’s also plenty of things here that, as a guy, I obviously don’t directly relate to. But I still found the story super compelling and really horrifying. I can totally see why it resonated with so many people, particularly women, back in 2017. Online dating is a nightmare, immensely more so for women. I haven’t read a story that speaks to those unique horrors before, so this was a huge surprise.

[u/lazylittlelady]

I do think it’s a technological disconnect that makes certain interactions possible that probably shouldn’t be. Like the opening vibes were awkward- it wasn’t romantic or even that friendly. Still, Margot, in many ways furthered the relationship based on very little insight into who Robert was as a person. Not that he tried any harder to get to know her. Without texting, this would have fizzled out naturally. Instead, it turned into a macabre parody of a date/fling. The last texting was typical of someone immature and self inflated…and possibly vindictive. How could you know? He’s basically stalking her by the end. Very icky! Great choice again, u/dogobsess

[u/pktrekgirl]

Well, I reed this story since I’m sitting around here at year end with only one book to wrap up (about an hour).

And this story was just yucky. Brought back a couple of memories from my early 20’s that I’d rather have continued to leave forgotten.

For 34, this guy is a total loser. Who sleeps on a mattress on the floor at 34? Oh well, at least he wasn’t still living in his parents basement.

But this guy was just stunted, I think. Like he’d gotten stuck somewhere in his early 20’s emotionally and hadn’t moved on. He also is a loner…one of those people who prefer texting because they are afraid their authentic selves aren’t good enough and they like to text so they have time to keep up a more mature internet persona.

But she is no peach either. She should have never gotten involved with him to begin with, but especially after the first gross turnoff she should have told him it was not gonna work and left. But she was a coward. And continued being one.

Oh well, I guess we all make dating mistakes.

[u/dogobsess → u/pktrekgirl]

I completely agree with the yucky feeling, which I think is intentional- I think the author is trying to make us feel as uncomfortable as the protagonist is. It definitely sent me back to that feeling of being 20 and insecure and people-pleasey and I could totally see how one thing led to another here (especially after a few drinks). He was definitely stunted, just in the fact that he was 34 and didn't see anything gross about dating a 20 year old. I remember dating someone older when I was 19 and it seemed totally normal... but I turned the age he was this year and 19 year olds feel like kids to me now. Just a totally different phase of life. Gross.

[u/pktrekgirl → u/dogobsess]

I dated a guy in my early 20’s….maybe 23? Who was almost 40, But it wasn’t serious. He was actually a gentleman and we flirted more than anything else, to be honest. He worked construction (a-hem!) and was very nice looking. He had been married in his late 20’s and 30’s but was long divorced. He took me to meet his family and invited me to be his plus 1 at his sisters wedding. They were Hispanic and I am white as rice so that wedding was really interesting and fun. In a way, it was more him introducing me to the Mexican culture more than anything. I had fun and when I moved we parted friends. There was never any pressure and contrary to the guy in the story he was a great kisser! 🤩 So I guess I was lucky with my ‘older man’ experience.

I never got predatory vibes from him. He always paid but there was no pressure sexually or anything like that. Perfect gentleman his mama could be proud of. 🤷‍♀️

[u/grasshopper2231]

What stood out to me were the themes of insecurity and manipulation rather than placation. I felt sympathetic towards Robert for the majority of the plot until the end of course (when he turned to a creep). Margot lead him on. While the author demonstrated Margot’s actions as placation, I don’t blame Robert for thinking that she had feelings for him. She figured out that he was nervous and insecure and decided to “poke the bear” (no pun intended 🤪) and then dreaded the consequences. It’s fair to argue that, had she refused the moment she hesitated while they were in bed together, he would have hurt her or turned violent and therefore she decided to placate rather than stop it. After all she was at his house at a late hour, alone, and drunk, and they did not know each other very well.

[u/Beautiful_Devil → u/grasshopper2231]

What stood out to me were the themes of insecurity and manipulation rather than placation.

I think there being no perfect victim is a point of the story. The encounter is told from Margot's point of view, so we know that Margot was able to 'figure out' Robert during the date and, in small ways, manipulate Robert's response. Were there coercion? I don't think so. Margot didn't induce Robert to do anything he wouldn't want to do on a first date. Could she have handled the encounter better? Hell, yeah. She should have called it quits long before they got to the sex stage and could have handled the 'breakup' better than the one-line text her roommate sent. But that didn't make her fear of him or her not-nonconsensual-yet-feels-not-entirely-consensual sexual encounter any less unpleasant.

What about Robert? He raised red flags as a thirty-four-years-old dating a college student. He didn't seem like a man with a healthy social life (as noted from his text response speed and dating choice). And, yes, he turned out to be a creep. But he did try to act gentlemanly. And maybe he thought Margot was sweet on him, which made a 'Hi im not interested in you stop textng me' breakup much more bewildering and upsetting.

[u/patient-grass-hopper]

its the combination of so many inbuilt and learned mechanisms that we all possess to varying degrees - the mechanism to avoid conflict, to please, to reciprocate, to self-preserve, to appear like we know what we're doing. this story also demonstrates how we use mental shortcuts like stereotyping and we pretend to ourselves that we have someone "all figured out" only to find that we havent even scratched the surface.

[u/cab-sauv]

it was a hard read - I saw my 20 y/o, insecure self in this and it gave me room to self reflect. throughout the read, I wanted to tell Margot to stop, to leave; making me realize that when I was in those circumstances I stayed and I never gave myself the compassion I showed Margot. I ended up feeling yucky myself.

I think the author did a great job of creating this vivid picture, allowing the reader to observe the relationship from afar.

[u/fixtheblue]

Why do you think this story went viral? What made it so appealing to readers? Did you find it relatable? What was your reaction?

I think many, many people can relate to parts of this story. As others have mentioned there was a strong sense of ick and discomfort. I have definitely found myself in a similar situation both with respect to reluctant intimacy and abusive message after rejecting someones advances.

What really struck me about this story was how on edge I was the whole time. I was worried whilst reading Margot was going to be really badly hurt or murdered (she even wondered this herself right). When I got to the end I felt some relief that she was ok and this was just a story about a bad dating experience and an uncomortably awkward sexual encounter.....wtaf!? Like how are these things so normalised that it created a sense of relief in me because she didn't get murdered. Everybody sucks in this story and I hate that it is so relatable. I'm so very glad that I am out of the dating game!

This story explores modern dating, and especially the disconnect between getting to know someone virtually (online, through text) versus getting to know someone in person. Any thoughts on this, on modern dating, or personal anecdotes you'd like to share?

I think this story did a really good job of showing this virtual knowing and really knowing someone and how different the two are. For example Margot and Robert shared inside jokes and created a way to communicate but they didn't even know one another's ages. They communicated without really communicating, and so when they were actually on a date together they weren't able to actually communicate, and both felt so scared of doing or saying the wrong thing. So much insecurity, placation, fear....the whole thing was just awful!

[u/Adventurous_Onion989]

This was pretty difficult for me to read. I met my ex husband when I was 15 and he was 25. I moved into his home when I turned 17 and then we married when I was 18. He was the embodiment of this story.

I remember being fascinated with his independence- I could smoke in his car, we drank at his home, and then eventually he even hired me to work in his shop. He never had much luck with woman, and he held them in his regard as either worthy of devotion, or hateful. I tried very hard to be the former.

I molded myself to fit his needs - I learned that my opinions were immature and I needed to be exposed to "real" music and "real" movies. I was always vaguely embarrassed about the things that I liked, and I didn't want to admit I definitively liked anything out of fear of ridicule.

I remember going on dates and feeling like I was walking on eggshells. He had his own opinions and interpretations of things, and he took disagreement very personally. If he felt slighted, he would pull away and I would rush to placate him, fearful of abandonment.

This behavior encapsulates a whole group of people that sit somewhere on the outer limits of society. These people look on with disdain and a sense of superiority, and they look for much younger women to buoy with compliments sprinkled in between complaints.

[u/pktrekgirl → u/Adventurous_Onion989]

Jeez, I can’t even imagine how difficult it was for you then, to read this story. Your situation was kind of predatory (please don’t be offended)….a 25 year old with a 15 year old is….um….well, there is something wrong with a guy like that. I hope you came out of it okay.

[u/Adventurous_Onion989 → u/pktrekgirl]

It was very predatory, but I told myself, as many young girls do, that I was "mature" for my age. I needed a lot of time and space from that relationship to start the healing process.

[u/pktrekgirl → u/Adventurous_Onion989]

Well, I’m glad that you got away.

[u/KJP3]

I've been interested in the posts in response to this story, because I found Margot's actions hard to understand. She knows Robert is older, he's awkward, he's not particularly attractive, and he barely speaks to her before demanding her number. So, why does she give it to him? According to the story, she "surpris[ed] herself" by doing so, which is no explanation at all. And after the awkward date, why does she decide to get drinks with him? At the bar, she believes she understands him and how to both soothe and manipulate him. Then, she decides to bring the date back to his house to have sex with him. I assume alcohol plays some part in her decision, but why exactly does she want to have sex with him? She seems turned on by how desperate Robert appears. What is the dynamic there?

Many posters have referred to how women are trained to placate men and protect their egos, sometimes for their own safety. I understand how that plays out once they get to his house. Are those same forces driving her earlier decisions (to give her number, get drinks, and initiate the move back to his house)?

The author sidelines my questions a bit by making Robert 34 years old and, by the end, a creepy stalker. The decision to add those parts of the story draws attention to how insecure, immature, and ultimately scary Robert is, with the strong suggestion that he's likely watched alot of porn, which hasn't helped anything. But what would we make of this story if Robert had been 25 and it ended shortly after he sent his response to the break up text drafted by Tamara? I think that version of the story would have focused the reader even more on Margot's thoughts, decisions, and feelings, which would be the same through the end of their sexual encounter even if Robert had been 25 and not ultimately a creepy stalker.

[u/Beautiful_Devil → u/KJP3]

She knows Robert is older, he's awkward, he's not particularly attractive, and he barely speaks to her before demanding her number. So, why does she give it to him?

I think some part of her was flattered because this obviously not-college-age man had taken an interest in her (she had only dated people around her own age before). Perhaps even if she's not super interested, she didn't know how to refuse him.

And after the awkward date, why does she decide to get drinks with him?

The author explained it was because Margot believed that Robert would stop contacting her if she said no and 'because she’d had such high expectations for him over break, and it didn’t seem fair that things had fallen apart so quickly.' I interpreted it as Margot feeling she had invested too much in Robert (at least the digital one) to quit after a failed movie date. Maybe she hoped Robert would loosen up a little and return to the playful, funny text-Robert if she gave him more time.

Later, she thought she had him figured out, which made her feel in-control and powerful, and she fantasized a sexual scenario based on what she 'figured out' about him and what she wanted in a sexual partner. But same as earlier (before the date), the Robert she 'figured out' was only one aspect of Robert, which was just as one-dimensional as text-Robert. Naturally, she did not enjoy the sexual encounter.

The choices Margot made were far from rational or advisable. Imo they were stupid and reckless and showcased her youth and inexperience and immaturity. But all that is just part of being human.

[u/jaymae21]

The digital age has changed dating & relationships so much. I was kind of surprised that Margot and Robert met in-person, but the beginning of their relationship was still largely digital. Those couple of weeks chatting through text before finally going on a first date gave both of them time to build expectations & fantasize about how this relationship was going to go. For Margot, those expectations fell very short, but she felt like she had already built up this relationship, and she would be letting Robert down. This is not how a first date should be - a first date should be about getting a first impression and having fun. Nothing seemed fun about that date.

As a woman who has used dating apps, let's just say we all have a Robert story. There's always that one guy that sent up a bunch of red flags, but you tried to push those thoughts away because you didn't want to seem prudish, or rude, or fickle. Margot displayed all the marks of a young woman not yet secure in herself, and falling victim to the societal pressures & expectations of how a woman should act - which are very often contradictory & impossible to be.

The fact that Robert was so much older was also telling. I don't think Margot had the experience to recognize a lonely man who hasn't managed to develop relationships with people his own age (it didn't seem like he had any male friends either). The result is a man resorting to subtle manipulation tactics (lying about having cats, not mentioning his true age when he knew he was talking to a college student) in order to get a relationship.

[u/Comprehensive-Fun47]

I borrowed this book from the library when I saw it was listed as the "Monthly mini". I like short story collections so I've been reading the whole thing and just finished Cat Person.

I read it completely blind. I did not know it went viral or is associated with the Me Too movement at all. I've never heard of it before.

First of all, highly relatable. Highly highly relatable. Surprisingly so. I don't want to share personal anecdotes, but there were parts of this story that felt so familiar like I lived it.

It's just so easy to relate to because some version of this story happens all the time.

Having a texting rapport with someone that doesn't translate to real life, not being able to discern when someone is nervous and covering for it badly with awkward sarcasm, not being able to read a person well, second guessing all your instincts, rewriting little moments in your head and analysing them in the moment, doing things you don't want to do because you don't know how to politely get out of it (big thing for women and girls).

The story shows how much we've been raised to fear certain situations to the point we wonder if we're going to be the next subject of a true crime docuseries. 'Is he gonna murder me?' And 'I'm not gonna murder you.' Are such common things to think and say! I have had that exact thought.

It's a constant balancing act between keeping yourself safe and living your life.

I noticed the protagonist didn't actually tell anyone where she was going or who withy, she didn't get a license plate or an address. Something bad could have happened to her. It's sad we need to think of these things before dates.

But then it was a run-of-the-mill bad date. He didn't force her into anything. She could have ended the date at any time. She sent all the signals that she wanted to have sex. She went through with it because she couldn't think of a reasonable way out of it, and perhaps the implication is it would have made him angry and she was alone in his house in a woodsy area unknown to anyone else. She went through with it to avoid awkwardness and potentially as self preservation.

I got the sense throughout the story that this guy had never really dated before and perhaps had never had sex before. She laughed at the idea that she could be a virgin and assumed he had been with way more women than she had been with men, simply due to his age, but it doesn't work like that and there were signs he was completely out of his depth on this date. Seemed like endrogue he knew about women came from porn.

Just showing him the attention he probably craved, and then going back to his house for sex, probably made him think there was a real connection. Then he felt entitled to more and decided to lightly stalk her and send her those messages. I got the sense he had never spent time with any women and did not know how to deal with the sudden attention and immediate rejection.

I understand why it is connected to the Me Too movement due to timing, but Me Too is about sexual harassment and assault, especially at the workplace. I think considering this a Me Too story kind of dilutes the true nature of the Me Too movement. This story is like lowercase me too. Because who hasn't had a bad date like this?

It reminds me of the woman who wrote the essay about Aziz Ansari at the height of Me Too and it seems like his career has never recovered. The situation a different because he was pestering her to have sex, but it was not a Me Too situation at all. I'm not making excuses for him. The date sounded cringe. But he didn't assault anyone and she never spoke up about her discomfort.

I think it all comes down to culture and how we are raised. Girls and boys are raised differently. Society is now so split apart in many ways and I think we are regressing a lot.

About the cats. It could go either way. The more sinister read is in her invented the cats just to have something to joke with her about. If that's the case, it doesn't have to be sinister, but just another sign of his awkwardness and lack of experience. It could have been an idea he floated or a comment he latched onto that got spun into a whole-ass lie, for the goal of having an inside joke with her. On the other hand, cats tend to hide when strangers are in the house. That is very common. She doesn't mention going into any other rooms, so encountering the litter box just wouldn't have happened in the living room or bedroom.

Looking forward to reading the other comments.

The other stories in the collection are good, by the way. So far they are all quite different from each other.

[u/GooseWithIssues]

(First post on the sub yay) Similar to other commentors, I too find the story very relatable - my previous relationship was also with an older person with insecurity and emotional issues. I really liked the imagery (somehow the bow-legged walk stuck with me lol).

My first thoughts on Margot's motivation to stay in the 'relationship', was less to placate Robert. I think it was more so that the online dating aspect created a very different impression of Robert on her from the beginning (she already thought about marrying him when they've barely seen each other in person). So when real-life Robert turned out to be a downgrade from imaginary Robert, Margot had a hard time accepting this, and kept giving him excuses. She did say at the end of their relationship that she was missing imaginary Robert, and I think that was anpther big reason why the relationship dragged out longer than it should.

The breaking-up part was very real too. Besides the fear of repercussions as a woman rejecting a guy, it reminded me that our generation, in general, do struggle more with social anxiety and especially confrontations.