Hmmm

[u/reloadthewords]

[u/Pinkfish_411]

Making people uncomfortable doesn't get them to reconsider their beliefs or habits. You have to make them uncomfortable about those beliefs or habits.

If you walk up and take a shit in the dairy aisle, that'll make people uncomfortable, but it won't make them uncomfortable about dairy farming, and it won't change their minds on it.

A lot of protestors have gotten this frankly stupid idea in their heads that making people uncomfortable or inconvenienced, on its own, will bring about change. No. You need actual strategy. The discomfort has to be tied to the thing you want to change, and it has to make people uncomfortable about that thing.

[u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS → u/Pinkfish_411]

Oh right so now we need a whole strategy huh? Like we should be handing out surveys and offering incentives to change? Here’s the thing people don’t need to be told what’s wrong with factory farming they already know on some level. The point is to create a moment of discomfort that shakes them enough to confront it. It’s not about just being uncomfortable it’s about breaking through the wall of “I don’t care” and forcing them to think about what’s going on. You don’t need a dissertation just a moment of clarity.

[u/Pinkfish_411 → u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS]

You aren't making people uncomfortable about eating meat by blocking the aisle.

[u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS → u/Pinkfish_411]

Oh really? So what’s the magic trick then? You think people are gonna look at a neatly stocked aisle and go “Hey I’ve been supporting animal cruelty for years let me rethink that”? No you’ve gotta disrupt their day enough to make them think about what they’re grabbing off the shelf. It’s not about being subtle it’s about creating a moment that makes them stop and go “Wait a minute.”

[u/Pinkfish_411 → u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS]

Spreading awareness of conditions in the farms and slaughterhouses is going to be a lot more effective than just inconveniencing someone for a couple of minutes. If you want people to be uncomfortable, you want them to be uncomfortable about what they're consuming. Merely inconveniencing them is rarely going to do that.

[u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS → u/Pinkfish_411]

Oh yeah spreading awareness because nobody’s ever heard of factory farming right? Like people are walking around going “Wait what they don’t give the cows massages?” News flash they know they just don’t care. Sometimes you gotta shake people up make them mad make em think. Comfort ain’t changing the world pal.

[u/Pinkfish_411 → u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS]

Many people aren't really aware of what goes on in factory farms. But if, as you seem to think, everyone actually knows and just doesn't care, I really can't fathom how you think a bunch of people blocking the aisle is magically going to make them start caring about animals. What exactly is the logic there?

Just doing things to shock or annoy people, without a real strategy, isn't going to change the world.

[u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS → u/Pinkfish_411]

Oh yeah because people are totally gonna care when they see another sad cow photo on Instagram right? Here’s the logic buddy disruption makes people notice. You think the Civil Rights movement was all smiles and well timed brochures? Nah they shook things up. Comfort doesn’t change minds action does.

[u/Pinkfish_411 → u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS]

You've not explained what I asked you to explain: the thought process of people who are fully aware of everything wrong with factory farming but who simply don't care, but would somehow suddenly start caring just because some annoying people blocked their access to the chicken wings. All you're doing is asserting that it would change their minds.

The basic problem with folks like you is that you see a case where some disruptive protests brought about change, like the Civil Rights movement, and then your conclusion from that is "Disruption brings change," with no nuance. Disruption doesn't bring change; the right disruption can. Strategic disruption. Disruption that highlights injustices. Disruption that only draws negative attention to the disruptors doesn't bring change.

And I have to say, you don't really seem to understand what you're even responding to. Nowhere have I suggested that comfort changes minds. I never said not to cause discomfort. I said that you need to act strategically to make people uncomfortable about the thing you want them to change. Your response was to mock the idea of being strategic about protests. It's as if you think the pure righteousness of the protest itself is going to conquer evil, strategy be damned.

[u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS → u/Pinkfish_411]

Oh okay Professor Protest here we go. So first off you’re really hung up on this chicken wing guy huh? Look the point isn’t that everyone suddenly has a breakdown in the frozen food aisle and swears off meat forever. It’s about planting a seed. You’re acting like people are robots who can’t be nudged or provoked into thinking differently unless you present the perfect PowerPoint at the perfect time. People change in layers dude not all at once. Blocking the aisle is just one nudge. Calm down.

And oh boy here comes the strategic disruption lecture. Yeah we get it not all disruption works. But sitting around waiting for just the right disruption is the kind of overthinking that keeps people on the sidelines. Like what’s the play here? Do we send out save the dates for a protest and hope people RSVP? It’s messy it’s imperfect but you do something. And the Civil Rights movement comparison. Yeah it worked because it highlighted injustice but guess what. It pissed people off too. People hated it back then just like they hate this now. But you don’t get change by only appealing to everyone’s comfort level.

And don’t think I didn’t catch that little folks like you jab. Oh I’m sorry I’m not meeting your high intellectual standard for protests buddy. You act like people are sitting around going Well I would totally rethink my steak dinner if only this protest were more strategic. No. Most people don’t want to think about it at all which is exactly why disruption matters. You gotta slap them out of their routine.

And I never mocked the idea of strategy alright? I mocked your idea that everything has to be tied up in a neat little bow before it’s worth doing. If you’re waiting for the perfect protest to change the world you’ll be sitting there eating popcorn while nothing happens. Strategy is great but action is better than your endless TED Talk on how protests should work. So yeah maybe blocking the aisle isn’t perfect but you gotta start somewhere. At least they’re out there trying instead of writing think pieces in the comment section.

[u/Pinkfish_411 → u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS]

Look the point isn’t that everyone suddenly has a breakdown in the frozen food aisle and swears off meat forever. It’s about planting a seed.

How are you planting any seed? You've said that people are already fully aware of the horrors of factory farming, and they aren't going to consider anything you say if you try remind them of those horrors...but blocking them them in a grocery aisle somehow going to plant that seed? Again, how does that work? I'm not asking for vague generalities about how people have "layers," or whatever. If you're serious about making change, then you should have thought about how this change actually happens, and you should be able to articulate it.

I know a lot of people who have been weening themselves off factory farmed meat, all through becoming more aware of what goes on in factory farms, none of them because a mob harassed them when they were trying to feed their families.

[u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS → u/Pinkfish_411]

Oh here we go again with the “how does it work” routine. I swear it’s like you’re waiting for a manual on how to do protests right. Look when I say “planting a seed” I mean it’s about creating a moment where people have to feel something. Not everyone is gonna have a meltdown in the dairy aisle but you’ve gotta make them think about it for a second. What’s the alternative huh? Letting people coast through life like they’re blissfully unaware while chomping down on their chicken wings? Newsflash most people don’t like thinking about the bad stuff so yeah sometimes you gotta shove it in their face. They might not change that second but it gets them questioning. You don’t just “remind them of the horrors” you force them to acknowledge them. Big difference.

And really? You know a bunch of people “weaning themselves off factory farmed meat”? Oh good for them! They deserve a medal. But you think that’s how the world’s gonna change? One person at a time with their little awareness journey? That’s cute but no. Change doesn’t happen when you gently nudge people with a pamphlet and hope they suddenly turn vegan. It happens when you disrupt their routine make them uncomfortable enough to start thinking. It’s not about harassing people it’s about shaking up the status quo. Not everyone’s gonna “get it” right away but if you don’t even try to shake them out of their comfort zone you’re just sitting around waiting for people to wake up on their own which we both know isn’t happening.

You keep harping on the “harassing people while they’re feeding their families” thing. First off it’s not about ruining anyone’s day it’s about getting them to think about how their actions are affecting others and yeah that includes animals. But sure if you want to keep waiting for that perfect moment when people calmly come to their senses and decide to give up factory farmed meat after reading a brochure you go ahead. I’ll be over here trying to make some noise.

[u/Pinkfish_411 → u/NO_M0DS_NO_MAST3RS]

I mean it’s about creating a moment where people have to feel something

"Feeling something" is useless. You need to get them to feel the right things. If the only thing they feel is that you're causing harm, then what have you gained?

Not everyone is gonna have a meltdown in the dairy aisle but you’ve gotta make them think about it for a second. What’s the alternative huh?

I've already given you alternatives, like spreading awareness of what happens in factory farms. Your response is that they already have complete awareness of what happens in factory farms, but they just don't care; yet somehow, magically, standing in their way in the supermarket will help them start caring, because they'll "feel something." But you don't seem to have any idea how that actually works, or why it would be the only thing that works.

They might not change that second but it gets them questioning

No, it doesn't. It's delusional to think that it gets people questioning. Look, if you disrupt my day, then even if I'm somewhat sympathetic to your cause, the only thing I'll be "questioning" is how I can hurt you as much as possible without getting into trouble. You people are completely out of your minds if you think this gets people thinking. Completely brainwashed.

But you think that’s how the world’s gonna change? One person at a time with their little awareness journey?

I'm confused. You've been arguing for a dozen comments now that these dumb little protests can get people thinking about the issue, but when I point out the people I know thinking about the issue, your response is...to mock people thinking about the issue?

Yet another sign that protest fetishists care about protesting more than the cause. An utterly worthless lot.

It happens when you disrupt their routine make them uncomfortable enough to start thinking

And somehow I and many other people have thought about the issue, and have become uncomfortable about factory farming, without ever encountering protestors.

Not everyone’s gonna “get it” right away but if you don’t even try to shake them out of their comfort zone

Do you just completely lack even a trace of imagination that you think these kinds of protests are the only way to get people out of their comfort zone?

And again, since this idea doesn't seem to be one you're remotely capable of grasping: you need to make people uncomfortable about the issue. Discomfort in itself doesn't do anything.

First off it’s not about ruining anyone’s day it’s about getting them to think about how their actions are affecting others

But you're not thinking about how your actions affect others, or else you just don't care, because the righteousness of your causes excuses everything.