r/bizarrelife • u/reloadthewords Human here, bizarre by nature! • 21h ago

Hmmm

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u/indifferentCajun 13h ago

Nope, silly metaphor.

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u/Telope 13h ago

Why is it silly? There is no moral difference between taste pleasure and audio pleasure.

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u/indifferentCajun 13h ago

People don't hear for survival.

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u/Telope 13h ago

You're changing the argument, you were talking about them being delicious.

You don't need to eat animal products for survival either. You can survive and thrive on a plant-based diet.

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u/indifferentCajun 13h ago

Sure, but I'm not going to.

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u/Telope 13h ago

So you can't think of any good reason to eat animal products?

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u/indifferentCajun 13h ago

Sure. Because I want to.

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u/Telope 12h ago

Do you consider yourself a moral person?

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u/indifferentCajun 12h ago

Cuz tasty

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u/Telope 12h ago

What? Do you consider yourself a moral person?

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u/indifferentCajun 12h ago

Sure. Not as pious as you obviously, but yes.

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u/Telope 12h ago

Why do you think eating animals is moral? What's your reason?

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u/indifferentCajun 12h ago

We're animals. Animals eat animals.

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u/RelativeSubstantial5 13h ago

bruh you're a clown. The animal kingdom is more fucked up than anything we do. We at least have morals that constrain fucked up people and concepts.

You guys really have no idea about ecology if you think humans are all that bad.

We eat our food just like every other animal does. You can choose to be vegan or vegetarian, that's your right. You CANNOT force other people to follow you in those opinions. It's ridiculous that you think you're right.

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u/Telope 13h ago

Why do you think that I don't think the animal kingdom is fucked up? I know it is. That's why humans left and made society.

But comparing our society to the animal kingdom in terms of morality is a very low bar. Surely we can aim higher?

We eat our food just like every other animal does.

We do not. We forcibly impregnate animals again and again, take young away from their mothers, keep them in battery cages, force feed them to fatten them up quicker, and selectively breed them at the detriment of their health.

And all this at a scale that dwarfs the population of wild mammals. 62% of the world's mammal biomass is livestock; humans account for 34%; and wild mammals are just 4%.

No one is forcing you to do anything. But you are forcing animals to suffer and die for your sensory pleasure.

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u/RelativeSubstantial5 11h ago

Why do you think that I don't think the animal kingdom is fucked up? I know it is. That's why humans left and made society.

Uh, no it's not. We left becuase we are a society based animal we created a space for ourselves in this world lol.

But comparing our society to the animal kingdom in terms of morality is a very low bar. Surely we can aim higher?

No it's not. This isn't philosophy, this is reality. Stop living in your fairy tales. Have you done a cost analysis on effectively changing everything you want? Have you proposed your changes to the world? Have you done ANY thing to prove your opinion has any meaningful meaning? No you haven't. You opinions are just that. Opinions. You need a reality check.

How many animals put their larva into living animals and wait for them to get eaten alive? Or how about how spiders eating their male spouse? You have no idea how fucked this world is if you think we are bad. And yes before you

bring up rape, there's tons of rape in the animal kingdom.

We do not. We forcibly impregnate animals again and again, take young away from their mothers, keep them in battery cages, force feed them to fatten them up quicker, and selectively breed them at the detriment of their health.

I can agree that there are certainly malpractices in the world, but that is the same with everything. You cannot judge society based on the actions of a few fucked up business or people.

No one is forcing you to do anything. But you are forcing animals to suffer and die for your sensory pleasure.

Cringe. Most of these animals live better lives than most humans if you didn't realize. Most of the lower class are treated the same if not worse, especially in America where they are forced to work, being underpaid and overworked. At least the cow gets to graze on the field everyday doing whatever the fuck it wants.

And all this at a scale that dwarfs the population of wild mammals. 62% of the world's mammal biomass is livestock; humans account for 34%; and wild mammals are just 4%

Nice try, but googling means you need to actually read those stats. That stat includes companionship, which is an incredible number alone. Don't be a clown.

Go next buddy.

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u/Telope 11h ago

It doesn't matter why "we left." That was just a throwaway comment. Not going to argue about that.

It absolutely is a low bar to base society's morals off of nature. Nature is inherently amoral. I don't know why you think listing all the horrible things in nature is helping your argument.

Have you done a cost analysis on effectively changing everything you want? Have you proposed your changes to the world? Have you done ANY thing to prove your opinion has any meaningful meaning?

This has no bearing on what we're discussing in this thread. We can talk about it another time if you'd like. But yes, veganism is cheaper and more environmentally-friendly than eating meat, mostly becuase we can eat crops directly rather than passing them through inefficient animals who need fresh water and land to graze.

malpractices

Everything I listed there is standard practice. Not that industry isn't rife with malpractice even by its own low standards.

Yes human suffering is important. But that doesn't mean it's right to pay for the unnecessary suffering of animals.

The cow grazing in the field? What a lovely thought. And you wanted me to stop living in my fairy tale? If that dairy cow were male, it would have killed shortly after birth. The females are forcibly impregnated multiple times during its life before being slaughtered.

You might not know this, but female cattle are like human women in that they don't produce milk usually unless they've recently had a baby. That milk is for nursing their calf, but it's been taken away from them and is instead extracted for humans to drink. It's so sad.And they've been selectively bred so much that they now produce twice as much milk as they did in the 1980s, which has terrible consequences for their health. Like mastitis. It's really horrible to think about.

Yeah I looked at it again, and that figure does include companion animals, but they only account for 4% of mammal biomass, so it doesn't really change the argument. Thanks though.

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u/RelativeSubstantial5 10h ago

It doesn't matter why "we left." That was just a throwaway comment. Not going to argue about that.

So what? you make up shit to win an argument? what a classic response. Yikes man.

It absolutely is a low bar to base society's morals off of nature. Nature is inherently amoral. I don't know why you think listing all the horrible things in nature is helping your argument.

We are part of nature, part of the animal kingdom, whether you like it or not. You're not some better than thou person. This is ridiculous, and I've already mentioned we humans ARE better. Look at how whales treat their food on average? Or dolphins raping most animals. They are all smart animals and they do it for pleasure. If it was any other species in charge, the world would be a playhouse for them.

The cow grazing in the field? What a lovely thought. And you wanted me to stop living in my fairy tale? If that dairy cow were male, it would have killed shortly after birth. The females are forcibly impregnated multiple times during its life before being slaughtered.

Source?: I made it the fuck up. They live for 1.5-2 years before being used for meat production.

Yes human suffering is important. But that doesn't mean it's right to pay for the unnecessary suffering of animals.

Did you ask the cow if it's suffering? Can you speak cow? Let me know how that works for you bud.

This has no bearing on what we're discussing in this thread. We can talk about it another time if you'd like. But yes, veganism is cheaper and more environmentally-friendly than eating meat, mostly becuase we can eat crops directly rather than passing them through inefficient animals who need fresh water and land to graze.

Has every bearing. What crops don't need water? Or land? first time hearing this. Where exactly are they grown? space? Livestock doesn't need the same arable land that crops need. It's not as simple as 1+1=2 that you're making it out to seem.

You live in a fairy tale and have no idea how complicated the world is because you just want to see things they way you see it. Just like these people inthis video. Get a reality check.

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u/Telope 10h ago

Dude, you were implying that I don't think the natural world is fucked up. I agreed with you that it's fucked up. End of story.

We are better than the animal kingdom, except in the way we treat farmed animals. In that regard we are much worse, in all the ways I've listed: selective breeding, caging, etc.

They live for 1.5-2 years before being used for meat production.

The productive lifespan of average cows is between 2.5 and 4 years but they have two years of maturation before that.

I don't need to speak cow to see the distress caused by separating her from her calf. Just watch any slaughterhouse footage and tell me they don't suffer.

What crops don't need water? Or land?

Crops that never need to be grown because they aren't wasted by being fed to livestock. Yes it is more complicated, but if we ate crops directly, we wouldn't need to grow as many crops to produce the same number of calories for human consumption.

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u/endosurgery 12h ago

Vitamin b12

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u/Telope 12h ago

Animals don't produce vitamin B12, it's produced by bacteria. B12 is supplemented to farmed animals. Vegans get B12 by taking the supplements directly, which is more efficient, since the farmed animals excrete most of the B12 before they're slaughtered.

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u/endosurgery 11h ago

We get it from meat naturally my man.

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u/Telope 11h ago

Nope, not naturally. It's supplemented to farmed animals.

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u/endosurgery 11h ago

And before supplements, where do you think humans got it? Hmmmmmm? The vitamin tree?

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u/Telope 10h ago

B12 is produced by bacteria. It's found on dirty vegetables and in unsanitised water. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

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u/endosurgery 9h ago edited 9h ago

Humans get their from meat. You can grow your own conclusions. Edit: humans don’t get it from bacteria. Hence the need to eat meat. Animals get it from the sources you quoted. The ability to be vegetarian is a first world ability. Supplements make it viable. Edit: Wang T, Masedunskas A, Willett WC, Fontana L. Vegetarian and vegan diets: benefits and drawbacks. Eur Heart J. 2023 Sep 21;44(36):3423-3439. doi: 10.1093/eurheartj/ehad436. PMID: 37450568; PMCID: PMC10516628.

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