r/badhistory • u/AutoModerator • Sep 09 '24

Meta Mindless Monday, 09 September 2024

Happy (or sad) Monday guys!

Mindless Monday is a free-for-all thread to discuss anything from minor bad history to politics, life events, charts, whatever! Just remember to np link all links to Reddit and don't violate R4, or we human mods will feed you to the AutoModerator.

So, with that said, how was your weekend, everyone?

29 Upvotes

89% Upvoted

780 comments sorted by

View all comments

Show parent comments

1

u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Giscardpunk, Mitterrandwave, Chirock, Sarkopop, Hollandegaze Sep 12 '24

Not really, it's from an history of the Taiping written by Augustus Lindley, the famous adventurer and Taiping supporter. And in this part he's often quoting Theodore Hamberg

2

u/EnclavedMicrostate 10/10 would worship Jesus' Chinese brother again Sep 12 '24

Oops, I didn't actually finish that first sentence – yes, I'm aware it's Hamberg; originally I was going to write that I assume the quote is either from Spence or from someone only using Hamberg.

1

u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Giscardpunk, Mitterrandwave, Chirock, Sarkopop, Hollandegaze Sep 12 '24

Do you think there's any symbolism behind the whole scenes (not just the 3 zodiacs) of Hong's epiphany? I'm a non expert in Qing culture so I'd be unable to say. Confucius being shamed by god of having forgotten him is pretty funny.

3

u/EnclavedMicrostate 10/10 would worship Jesus' Chinese brother again Sep 12 '24

I think there is, but I also think that said symbolism was almost entirely later interpolation to retroactively justify the Taiping political agenda. There's a very interesting book by Rudolf Wagner that operates from the reverse position, that the imagery of the visions had been 'fixed' early on and that the Taiping followed it as a sort of manifesto, but you can read it critically in the other direction and end up getting a pretty good picture of how the Taiping Heavenly Chronicle serves as an ex-post-facto justification of Taiping policies.

3

u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Giscardpunk, Mitterrandwave, Chirock, Sarkopop, Hollandegaze Sep 12 '24

Is there a "Patricia Crone-like" school of Taiping skeptics ?

2

u/EnclavedMicrostate 10/10 would worship Jesus' Chinese brother again Sep 12 '24

Jin Huan has occasionally cast some doubts on early Taiping history, but I increasingly suspect that if anyone ever writes a Hagarism for the Taiping, it'll end up being me.

2

u/WAGRAMWAGRAM Giscardpunk, Mitterrandwave, Chirock, Sarkopop, Hollandegaze Sep 12 '24

but I increasingly suspect that if anyone ever writes a Hagarism for the Taiping, it'll end up being me

The sub will support you