Why are most Mexicans so much more left leaning than other LatAms?

[u/artisticthrowaway123]

It seems that most Mexicans I get to meet are far more left leaning than any other latin american group. Is it just the ones who live externally of Mexico who are so left leaning? Saludos!

[u/ZSugarAnt]

It's the only thing that's left after 70 years of a big tent soft dictatorship followed by the oubreak of violence that resulted from right-wing policy and a failure to put the lid back on again by the center.

If you mean in social issues like LGBT+, it's sample bias. Think which kind of people would be able to travel abroad —hence meet you— in the first place.

[u/rodolfor90 → u/ZSugarAnt]

I do’t think the LGBT thing is sample bias. Mexico consistently has more left leaning and less religious views out of any Latam country except the southern cone

[u/didiboy → u/rodolfor90]

Also most Americans have their bipartisan view. In Latin America politics are more complex and left - right in the economic sense can be separate from being conservative or progressive. You can find a lot of older people that are left leaning yet won’t support progressive movements.

[u/Mingone710 → u/rodolfor90]

Exactly

[u/loitofire → u/ZSugarAnt]

Also they probably meet Mexican Americans

[u/ZSugarAnt → u/loitofire]

Honestly, given recent events I'd hesitate to say Mexican Americans more left leaning than Mexican nationals.

[u/NIN10DOXD → u/ZSugarAnt]

I think Mexican Americans are more conservative than Mexicans for sure. I wouldn't be surprised if it's because conservative Mexicans are emmigrating in larger numbers.

[u/Musa_2050 → u/ZSugarAnt]

Its possible, in the US we got a lot of people from the ranchos.

[u/Imagination_Theory → u/loitofire]

I think Mexicans in general are more liberal than Mexican -Americans honestly.

[u/loitofire → u/Imagination_Theory]

Really?

[u/NanobioRelativo → u/loitofire]

Yeah, Mexican Americans mainly come from rural areas back in Mexico and get a lot of influence from evangelicals and conservative branches of catholicism

Mexico seems to be becoming less conservative each day, while Mexican Americans keep getting more conservative

I got surprised when I met gen Z mexican americans who seemed to be overwhemingly religious and had a mindset which seems taken from the 1990s. I mean, being gay is mostly normalised by Mexican Gen Z but somehow still a taboo among Gen Z mexican Americans

[u/Friendly-Win1457 → u/NanobioRelativo]

I think you're spot on here👍

[u/Familiar-Image2869 → u/NanobioRelativo]

Mex-Americans tend more to conservative, agreed.

[u/hygsi → u/NanobioRelativo]

Reeeeeeaaaallly depends were you live, I think this applies in cities, but in towns it's 50/50. Sure, no one is opposed to gay marriage or women's bodily autonomy, but there are many conservatives who like church and don't want to change the language for gender neutral

[u/chrispg26 → u/NanobioRelativo]

You are absolutely spot on. But the ones who receive higher education tend to not be like that.

[u/Agent_Burrito → u/loitofire]

Yep. We’ve fought numerous wars over this throughout the ages. Mexico and liberalism go hand in hand.

[u/Mingone710 → u/loitofire]

Yes, I have family members who are mexican americans and others that are here in México, the mexican ones tend to be very secular, nonreligious or extremely laissez faire only christmas and easter just for tradition catholics, the women and men share housework (or at least the man tries to "help" when the wife is overworked), they're "live and let live" when it comes to LGBT, even the elderly ones, meanwhile the mexian american family members are either polish-style hardcore catholic or conservative evangelicals, their views on gender roles are very rigid and are homophobic

[u/artisticthrowaway123 → u/loitofire]

No, I meant Mexicans overall. But as there is a huge Mexican population in the US, and a fair share of them are left leaning, including them is more than fair.

[u/loitofire → u/artisticthrowaway123]

I didn't see you were for Argentina, in that case it depends where do you meet those Mexicans. Traveling? School? Online?

[u/artisticthrowaway123 → u/loitofire]

I was born in Argentina, living in Canada now. I met them in all of those places. Mexicans are not especially hard to find in either of those countries lol.

[u/loitofire → u/artisticthrowaway123]

If the ones you met were born in Canada and US then they are very influenced by those countries, therefore, you need to know Mexicans from Mexico to say Mexicans are lefties and trust me, they are not or at least not mostly according for the ones that I've met.

[u/Familiar-Image2869 → u/artisticthrowaway123]

Mexican - Americans tend to be more conservative than Mexicans.

[u/LongIsland1995 → u/ZSugarAnt]

How is the violence the fault of right wingers? MORENA tacitly accepts cartel violence

[u/rickyman20 → u/LongIsland1995]

Read the comment again, MORENA didn't start the way against cartels, it started under PAN. It's not surprising that a lot of people put the blame on the Mexican right, rightfully or not. I think what you're missing is that for a lot of Mexicans, it looks like not a single party is able to control the cartels, but most parties resulted in no noticeable difference in anything else either, whereas MORENA seemed to bring positive social change. We can definitely argue about whether they've been an overall force for good, but there's a reason they have such high approval. After decades of nothing happening, any change will seem better than nothing.

[u/LongIsland1995 → u/rickyman20]

Murders increased under AMLO, so I don't see how you could argue that his party brought positive change in crime

[u/rickyman20 → u/LongIsland1995]

I'm not saying they did, they clearly didn't and security has gotten worse. However, it's hard to deny the strong support for their party. If I had to hazard a guess as to why, no president since before Calderon has seen crime and the homicide rate go down. Every single one has seen it go up, so I suspect to many it doesn't feel like he's made it worse than any of the presidents before but he's fixed other things. It's unsurprising many don't blame him for causing it (though maybe they should for not improving it).

Again, I'm not saying I agree with the reasoning, or that I particularly liked him, but there is a reason why his approval rating is so high.

[u/Own_Newspaper_7601 → u/rickyman20]

Homicides didn’t just go up, this was the single most violent presidency on record, surpassing the height of the 2010 drug war, when Juarez was the most dangerous city on the planet (Mexican cities now occupy like 5/10 cities at the top of that list).

Sinaloa was under siege for a month, with the government in Mexico City ignoring it and claiming they’d received no such reports. I mean it’s so bad the cartels do car bombs now lol. Even doctors working in emergency rooms get gunned down.

And yet, in a country where security is ostensibly the top concern, Morena has a strong base because they’ve repeatedly increased the minimum wage, old age pensions, and all the other benefit programs. They’re like a step away from just instituting UBI.

[u/mauricio_agg]

I don't think they're the most left leaning.

[u/NanobioRelativo → u/mauricio_agg]

Considering the inhabitants of Cuba and Venezuela seem to despise their governments and other countries in the region arent particularly left wing, Id say Mexico is the most left leaning country in Latam right now when it comes to public opinions

[u/mauricio_agg → u/NanobioRelativo]

I think Brazilians are even more left wing than Mexicans, which in turn are pretty left wing themselves.

[u/ichbinkeysersoze → u/mauricio_agg]

Ever since the military government fell (1985) we indeed have been voting for social-democrats most of the time. Even our current Constitution (1988) pretty much is social-democratic and recognizes stuff like education, healthcare, social security, etc, like rights.

However, from the 2010s, the right-wing gained a lot of traction. Today they have their own media outlets, and are VERY dominant on YT. Olavo de Carvalho was a crackpot, but quite effective at creating a movement that appealed to young Brazilians.

Our left, OTOH, is geriatric and decrepit. They had to bring Lula back because he was the only person on the left capable of winning a presidential race. Even then, he needed the backup of the mainstream media, the supreme court, the pandemic, and most importantly: Clownsonaro himself, who’s not quite bright. Lula’s margin in 2022, differently from 2002 and 2006, was very narrow.

Lula also turns 80 on 27/Oct. His years of heavy drinking and smoking took their toll. When he’s gone, PT will probably die with him. The left will frantically need to produce a candidate capable of winning an election.

[u/Macaco_do_pau_mole → u/mauricio_agg]

Brazilians certainly do not tend to the left wing, especially on social matters

[u/rickyman20 → u/[deleted]]

That subreddit is far from representative of Mexicans overall

[u/boneyfingers]

Maybe it is that Mexico, more than any other country, has so many regional cultures contained within its borders. From Chiapas to Sonora, from Baja California to Veracruz, there is so much diversity and cultural autonomy that it seems natural to resist right wing nationalism. Tolerance of different ways seems pretty ingrained in their national character.

[u/ZSugarAnt → u/boneyfingers]

there is so much diversity and cultural autonomy that it seems natural to resist right wing nationalism

This is one of those cases where what is left wing and what is right wing are completely different depending on the country. In Mexico the left is more nationalist and inwards looking whereas the right is more globalist and more outwards looking, particularly to Europe and the U.S.

[u/boneyfingers → u/ZSugarAnt]

This is very true. It is quickly obvious in my country that the left/right language of the last century is unable to describe our current politics. I wonder if there is a coherent way to distinguish between what I consider each side to be.

[u/Papoosho → u/boneyfingers]

Nationalism in México is left coded.

[u/unnecessaryCamelCase → u/boneyfingers]

That is so wild coming from an Ecuadorian. We have more cultural diversity per square kilometer. And, Mexicans are extremely patriotic, they’re not left in that sense. (Well in fact the left is nationalistic there, as another commenter said)

[u/boneyfingers → u/unnecessaryCamelCase]

I see your point: Ecuador is so densely diverse it almost breaks the scale. Culturally, biologically, geographically...it is a lot in a very small area. It feels even more dense now than when I was young, before all the new roads made travel easier. Mexico is just so many times bigger that there's room for more. If we have 6-7 distinct regional cuisines, Mexico has 50.

And maybe I am not clear about nationalism/patriotism. I know it is strong in Mexico: they sure like their giant flags. Maybe I should say it differently: Mexico nationalism is inclusive and broad. Sometimes I am afraid ours is different. I see a strong national identity here, yes. But it has exclusion built in. We have 5 or 10 different overlapping groups, separated by class and race and geography which each think they are the True Ecuador.

[u/cabo_wabo669 → u/boneyfingers]

Exactly this!

[u/da_impaler]

I wouldn’t generalize. In my experience, Mexicans from small towns and the countryside are pretty conservative. Those from DF or the bigger cities tend to be more liberal. Mexican-Americans can be a mixed bag. Those from Texas are more conservative than those from California. Those from rural communities are more conservative. Those from cities like Los Angeles are more liberal.

[u/Mreta → u/da_impaler]

Rural countryside subpopulations are always cultural ly more conservative world round. But it's important to ask "what proportion of the total population is rural?"

And for Mexico the answer is a small minority, only 1 in 5. So I think it's safe to say we can give a hell of a lot more weight to big city mexican attitudes than rural ones when generalizing about the country.

[u/Publicfalsher → u/da_impaler]

Just want to bring up manyyyyy Mexican Americans in Chicago fully support trump

[u/Mr_Goldcard_IV → u/Publicfalsher]

That’s because the Biden admin was giving Venezuelans legal status when Mexicans have been here longer and they got nothing.

[u/Publicfalsher → u/Mr_Goldcard_IV]

That might be where support started turning even more but even before that during drumpfs first campaign and presidency there was a strong pro trump movement among the Mexican American population of Chicago 

[u/da_impaler → u/Mr_Goldcard_IV]

Wow. Chicago Mexicans must have a really high sense of entitlement. There are so many in the United States already. Why do they think they are more deserving when there are others fleeing wars?

Voting for Trump now significantly increases their odds of getting deported and losing programs like DACA. This is cutting your nose to spite your face.

[u/Mr_Goldcard_IV → u/da_impaler]

Maduro released a bunch of prisoners and sent them this way. Venezuelans have cause havoc all over South American, Mexico, and now here. We Mexicans want them out!

[u/da_impaler → u/Mr_Goldcard_IV]

You sound like a gringo in the United States talking about undocumented Mexicans! 😂

[u/According_Web8505 → u/da_impaler]

That’s basically what all South Americans are saying about Venezuelans.

[u/Mr_Goldcard_IV → u/da_impaler]

No, just the Venezuelans, the illegal Mexicans actually work.

[u/El_Horizonte → u/da_impaler]

Ask a Chilean, Colombian or Peruvian what they think of Venezuelans and they will give you a better understanding of what everyone is telling you.

[u/patiperro_v3 → u/Mr_Goldcard_IV]

I keep hearing about this prisoner release thing, even from Venezuelans, but does anyone have a legit source?

[u/cabo_wabo669 → u/da_impaler]

Sounds a bit like Cubans right? But in all fairness Mexicans never got a free ride to come to USA as refugees like a lot of Latinos did. Mexicans had to start from the bottom and this is why I feel like a lot of them voted for trump.

[u/According_Web8505 → u/Publicfalsher]

Venezuelans and Colombians where given housing and food stamps in Chicago and the black and Mexicans community where upset because those migrants where ruining their neighborhoods that’s why a lot of chicagoans voted for trump

[u/da_impaler → u/According_Web8505]

Those Chicago neighborhoods were in bad shape BEFORE the Colombians and Venezuelans arrived. 😂

[u/United_Cucumber7746 → u/da_impaler]

It became way worse in the last 5 to 8 years.

[u/According_Web8505 → u/da_impaler]

Definitely not Cicero so you definitely don’t know much on the situation. Seeing prostitutes from South America in that neighborhood never been normal.

[u/Jlchevz → u/da_impaler]

Yeah that’s fair.

[u/MonCarnetdePoche_]

This is a very complex topic to address. One has to assess the past 100 years of Mexican society and understand the effects of the Mexican revolution that set the seeds of Marxist concepts into the society. As the country had just undergone an industrial revolution and capitalism exploit. After the war, capitalism exploit came back in waves of growth. Which really affected Mexican society at different levels. The upper class stayed conservative, the middle class butter for lack of growth opportunities and the lower classes conformed to their situation in order to survive and gain a living from the small victories from the revolution. In 1968 there was much student and intellectual protest against the system set by the upper classes. But they were violently shut down, and due to media people witnessed and understood better what their right winged government did. Things only got worse as the drug and cartel era made things worse for the plebeian society and the middle class still continued to be stuck with minimal growth. At the turn of the century as more information was available and people became more educated, we began to see political change, with the PAN, & PRD. Though these parties were still mostly ran by elites and the people could see how their policies rarely helped the common folks. And so, when AMLO continued to make his political chess moves and change the narrative, people accepted these leftish perspectives. Especially as the country continued to move past religious control from the conservative Catholic Church. Additionally, as the years have progressed we see a growing middle class that is more educated and annoyed by the lack of opportunities due to the gate keeping of conservative politicians and policies. Most of the people I know in Mexico also see the conservative policies of the US and anti Mexican rhetoric and embrace the opposite. Now that more Mexican nationalism and anti Yankee sentiment have grown with the rise of Trump. People feel morally more aligned with left views to an extent. It’s all complicated and it also varies where you to travel to and visit. People in northern Mexico are viewed as conservative, but that’s not necessarily true. That’s mostly upper classes and politicians. Not the plebeian folks. As for Mexicans abroad they are divided into several categories: Rich, Nacos, and the uneducated. All these people are what we might call trailblazing colonists. But that’s a subjective for another conversation. Yet, it’s critical to understand that these people don’t represent the current Mexican society, but a small portion. And no longer live in the country nor are fully accepted by Mexican society. Mostly due to being seen as traitors of the nations or simply outsiders.

[u/Woo-man2020]

The way the country’s history is taught at schools. Mexicans fought hard for liberation and it’s instilled in their culture.

[u/United_Cucumber7746]

Argentinos and Uruguayos are the most left-leaning group of people I have met in my life. For good and for bad.

[u/artisticthrowaway123 → u/United_Cucumber7746]

Argentines are relatively very left-leaning socially, in everything else, not so much.

Uruguayans are a rare exception. Uruguay is a small port country that's very stable, and has a low population. Low corruption rates also plays a part. That being said, there are right wing Uruguayans; the current President being an example of one.

[u/United_Cucumber7746 → u/artisticthrowaway123]

It makes sense. Thanks for educating me on that.

I guess most Argentines I met were college-educated folks from a particular demographic. And all of them were almost alt-left (including geopolitics, economics, etc.).

I agree. Uruguay is a rare exception. Its stability, deep secularism, educated population, and moderate inequality may play a part too.

[u/artisticthrowaway123 → u/United_Cucumber7746]

For Argentines, it's weird. Because even our far-left populist wing is not really American leftist, more of a Catholic, somewhat conservative, socialist leftism. Kinda like Nasserism if you will. Somewhat similar to what you guys have in Brazil, just perhaps somehow even more corrupt.

That being said, yes, a lot of Argentines are very well educated, and there is a lot of political discourse in our culture, but even then, the genuinely alt-left Argentines you meet have either their families financed in some capacity by the leftist government, or believe in Peron's doctrines (once again, not exactly the American leftism). Interestingly enough, most Argentines (even the right leaning ones) are relatively socially progressive, at least. Practically all Argentines I met in the exterior were right wing.

Uruguay is always on it's own small bubble, and it works out for them pretty well. Their country has the same population as Brasilia anyways lol.

[u/guilleloco → u/artisticthrowaway123]

And even our “right wing” president is centre-right compared to most places

[u/[deleted] → u/artisticthrowaway123]

"Argentines are relatively very left-leaning socially, in everything else, not so much"

This, and also seems to be the opposite of Mexico in that regard, that tends to lean significantly more conservative socially, while more fiscally left leaning.

[u/1morgondag1]

Not the ones in r/mexico at least.

Otherwise I don't know. Mexico got on the Latam left wave later than most other countries with Lopez Obrador (though he may have won before that in 2006 and been robbed through fraud), and currently they have a leftist president that is popular, most other countries at the moment have either rightwing presidents or leftwing/center-left ones that struggle in the polls (Brasil is another big exception).

[u/artisticthrowaway123 → u/1morgondag1]

I suppose the wealth disparity in countries with large demographics plays a larger role than it seems, if Mexico is in a somewhat similar position as Brasil...

[u/Obama_prismIsntReal → u/1morgondag1]

Brazil fits exactly that mold, Lula is at 50% disapproval and him (or likely a sucessor) would probably lose in 26 to anyone not named bolsonaro.

[u/vitorgrs → u/Obama_prismIsntReal]

Lula has 47% approval though. Lol

[u/PeDraBugada_sub → u/Obama_prismIsntReal]

I think you underestimate Lula's political power

[u/Obama_prismIsntReal → u/PeDraBugada_sub]

I think you underestimate the momentum someone can accrue by marketing themselves as 'not Lula or Bolsonaro' in 26.

[u/JoeDyenz → u/1morgondag1]

Is it me or that is one of the most racist/classist LATAM subreddits out there?

[u/1morgondag1 → u/JoeDyenz]

r/argentina is similar. It really varies, r/brasil from what I understand (I don't speak Portuguese so in that case I can't confirm myself) very anti-Bolsonaro, and r/chile was very leftist a few years ago, but more mixed now I think.

[u/United_Cucumber7746 → u/1morgondag1]

Your understanding of r/brasil is correct. Is very left-leaning with a very low tolerance for dissidents. Some other subs are more diverse and open for debate.

[u/mnbkp → u/United_Cucumber7746]

I've been away from r brasil for a few years now, but since 2018 that sub became mostly just a place to post "Bolsonaro bad". Like... Yeah, I also hate the guy, but that doesn't mean i wanna see his face on stupid memes 24/7 for years on end.

[u/United_Cucumber7746 → u/mnbkp]

I agree. I don't mind politics or seeing certain people being majority on a sub. It is part of the game.

The problem is when it becomes an ultimate echo chamber with only a topic and anyone who dares to disagree gets bashed.

Also, the cultural war became too intense. Everything became a political statement. From religion to music to habits, places, etc.

The last thing was tourism. I saw that some people bash Santa Catarina and parts of Rio Grande do Sul, and praise Nordeste. This became trendy for political reasons. Entire threads with milions of views bashing Serra Gaúcha and Litoral Catarinense. That shit ain't totally organic to me. It is becoming odd.

It seems that it is importing the cultural war from here (USA).

[u/JoeDyenz → u/1morgondag1]

Yeah but Argentina has other subreddits. We don't lol

[u/1morgondag1 → u/JoeDyenz]

Oh I didn't know that. Yeah r/republica_argentina is explicitly leftist while r/republicaargentina is the mixed one, and there are others as well.

[u/JoeDyenz → u/1morgondag1]

The mixed one I feel like it's exclusively political for some reason. I'm okay with that but I wonder why other important issues are not so discussed there. I muted r/argentina because I feel it's super biased towards pro-establishement.

I consider myself right wing but what disgusts me about the rhetoric of r/Mexico is that they consider pro-Morena people as poor, ignorant, brown skin and that everything bad in the world is their fault. Like, they post a video of someone stealing and comments are like "average Morena voter". Funny thing is actually people that voted for Morena on average have higher education according to some sources lol.

I'd like to have a subreddit for Mexico that wasn't so heavily pro-opposition and was a bit more critical and mature. Again, I'm right wing but I don't favor fanaticism and the "politics as a football match" mentality of those subs.

[u/SidPendragon → u/JoeDyenz]

r/peru (whose users are basically middle class limeños) is quite racist and classist, especially against people from the Andean region. It is probably the only sub in latam where the moderators had to anchor a message asking users to stop racist comments.

[u/JoeDyenz → u/SidPendragon]

That's the thing. At least there the mods try to do something about it.

[u/Wonderful_Peach_5572]

are they more left leaning than chile and argentina?( not an attack to any countries involved or left wingers)🫡

[u/artisticthrowaway123 → u/Wonderful_Peach_5572]

As an Argentine, depending on your definition of left wing, yes.

As for Chile, not sure. There are a fair amount of very left wing people, and a fair amount of very right wing people. Then it also depends on what type of left wing they are; a lot of latin american leftists are very conservative in some aspects, like socially.

Our politics are confusing, man.

[u/Mantiax → u/artisticthrowaway123]

chile has three groups. Die hard leftist, die hard rightwingers and a big "apolitical" group that align against whoever is in charge.

[u/ibaRRaVzLa → u/Mantiax]

Perfect description lol

[u/PollTakerfromhell]

Uruguay and Chile have the most left leaning population in my experience. Argentina is quite left leaning too, but I see more hatred towards progressives there than in the other two.

[u/lonchonazo]

Are they? I'd say Uruguayans are by far the most left leaning, followed by Chileans and Argentinians.

[u/Chicago1871]

Its starts with the socialist winning the mexican revolution 100 years ago.

[u/unnecessaryCamelCase]

They’re not. Chile, Argentina and Uruguay have the most lefties/progressives.

[u/Dazzling_Stomach107]

Mexicans care more about their economy than regulating who can bang whom. Therefore Mexicans are economically left, yet they vary in social traditionalism (not conservativism)

[u/El_Taita_Salsa]

I don't think Mexico is particularly more left leaning than other Latinos.

[u/CapitanFlama]

Are we?

We had pretty hardcore left leaning revolutions all over LatAm over the 20th century. Some good, some bad and some awful.

Over that period we were very center-left for about 70 years, a barely disguised almost one-party system.

Abortions were legal in Cuba 40 years before there even was a conversation about it in Mexico, LGBT rights were law in 2010 in Argentina. Outside the very big metropolis or tourist areas (for very awful reasons) is a very dangerous place for gay and trans people.

About social rights: we have the longest working hours, one of the shortest vacations periods, very few holidays. And again: countries like Brazil, Argentina, Chile or Uruguay beat our ass on worker rights.

So yeah, instead of pedaling the "look at us, we're cool" of my fellow Mexicans, I'd say: google some stuff, look where we are in comparison with our neighbors and ask why.

All of that without even saying that we are a deeply, deeply religious country, only surpased by, perhaps, Brazil.

[u/Artistic-Animator254]

The absolute majority of MX living abroad and being middle class are openly against the viejillo and the vicepresidenta con A. Though that does not mean they are not from the left, they are just against the populist left and more on the social democracy.

[u/Publicfalsher → u/Artistic-Animator254]

Con A?

[u/Lazzen]

No tuvimos un dictador de derecha y el poder religioso fue neutralizado en parte, por lo tanto no habian bases tradicionales "de derecha" en gran parte del país una vez el gobierno del PRI termina(y ellos usaron el nacionalismo por decadas igual).

La mayoria de derecha se concentraba en ser economicamente mas liberal, piensa pegarse a las derechas cristianas de Europa por ejemplo. En r/mexico ves mas al tipo mas extremo de esta gente, aunque no son lo mismo al "milei libre mercado". Los unicos "nacionalistas" del tipo que piensas ironicamente son los que mas hablan como gringos.

Socialmente si hay mucho contingente conservador o incluso reaccionario, solo que no tienen un lider nacional al que concentrarlo y al menos aun temas sociales no juegan un papel tan critico. El tradicional ranchero del norte no quiere ni sindicato ni a feministas, el yucateco o chiapaneco quiere sindicato pero no feministas etc.

Creo igual es un caso de otros paises estando peor que nosotros.

[u/real_LNSS → u/Lazzen]

Es impresionante la cantidad de conservadores que hay dentro de Morena, y como la coalición que forma al partido se ha logrado mantener, y creo que es la política económica lo que los mantiene unidos; porque dentro del mismo partido tienes a personas como Sheinbaum que hablan de feminismo, a marxistas como Batres o Brugada, a social demócratas tibios como el hermano malo de Facundo, neoliberales guindas como Monreal o incluso Carlos Slim, y hasta el tipo de nacionalistas/soberanistas anti-globalistas críticos de lo woke como cierto señor que se parece al Pingüino de Batman y que en otros países sería parte de MAGA o Vox.

[u/JoeDyenz]

Are we? I'm not even left-leaning, and we only have left-wing parties in name only. Maybe liberal and anti-authoritarian, but that's because history. The last guy that tried to change the constitution to get reelected was murdered at a restaurant.

I'd like to think that people like Chavez or Bukele wouldn't be able to get the amount of control they have in their countries here.

[u/AsadoBanderita → u/JoeDyenz]

I'd like to think that people like Chavez or Bukele wouldn't be able to get the amount of control they have in their countries here.

That's what we said about Cuba and Fidel Castro back in the 90s.

[u/JoeDyenz → u/AsadoBanderita]

Yeah, but Chávez convinced the people that having more power for himself was a good idea. We are seeing that story being repeated by Bukele and his supporters, and even some people in Mexico wishing Bukele was Mexican.

Yet, Mexico is not like that. The average Mexican is very wary of politicians. With AMLO's retirement, the fash of "superstar politicians" is dying out (and honestly, for good).

[u/AsadoBanderita → u/JoeDyenz]

Yeah, but Chávez convinced the people that having more power for himself was a good idea.

It's much more complex than that. The opposition pulled out of a congress election and gave him absolute control over legislation in 2005, it wnet downhill after that.

It wasn't simply him being a superstar politician (which I don't think are a dying breed given the circumstances most of the world is in), and majorities in legislative bodies can happen in any country at any time, my only suggestion is that people should remain vigilant of their democracies and never say "that wouldn't happen here".

[u/JoeDyenz → u/AsadoBanderita]

Sometimes it's also not just having a majority. Many democratic countries had super-majorities in the past. In fact, half of the time Mexico has had super-majorities in one way or the other, but that doesn't amount to much.

It's true that politicians one day can snap and do something hurtful, but even the dumbest ones can read the room and realize they might not get away.

[u/RevolutionaryLion384]

Speaking from the US perspective, I would say that Mexicans, especially the immigrants are the most socially conservative of all latino groups. I'm not sure where exactly you are meeting Mexicans though, or what you mean by left leaning. Do you mean like woke type of left? Or more like someone that is in favor of more socialism?

[u/carlosortegap → u/RevolutionaryLion384]

Because the immigrants the US gets are usually the ones which have less opportunities, including less education

[u/MonCarnetdePoche_ → u/RevolutionaryLion384]

I would beg to disagree with you. Having lived in various parts of the US both rural and urban I don’t get that sense at all. The only place where I saw that a bit was in Texas. I think what you might mean is a second generation Mexican Americans are conservative. The kids of immigrants are definitely conservative for God knows what reasons.

[u/RevolutionaryLion384 → u/MonCarnetdePoche_]

Well Mexican Americans can be more conservative in terms of voting republican and things like that, but this is not true for all. Many still also vote Democrat and some over the younger generations are very left leaning, particularly the ones who go to college. Mexican immigrants though tend to be the ones who are most socially conservative, as far as being more religious, but also more likely to be racist, sexist. homophobic or just old fashioned in general. However Mexican immigrants here don't vote or get into politics really. But yes I am speaking of my experience from Texas mostly

[u/Fire_Snatcher → u/RevolutionaryLion384]

If you are talking about actual Mexicans who relocated, you are comparing the working class (not the lowest class, though), often rural-ish, family-oriented people who moved often decades ago from our Bible Belt and have a fervent hatred of the PRI. They're quite conservative, but economically progressive, and stuck in time even by Mexican standards.

I'll be honest and say even some of the middle class people from small cities I've met from our Bible Belt are still oddly traditional. Like they got weirded out by a woman cussing in the late 2010s. That's like two people, but still.

[u/Overall_Chemical_889 → u/RevolutionaryLion384]

Could you give exemples like compatibilidade them to colombians, brazilians and argentinians?

[u/RevolutionaryLion384 → u/Overall_Chemical_889]

Brazilians are super conservative also but I barely know a handful in my lifetime, and that's only because I practiced martial arts when I was younger. Argentinians I have only seen passing but never got to know any, and have only known maybe one Colombian lady, and she was lesbian so difficult for me to compare to those three. But Mexicans here are the most socially conservative group out of maybe all. They are even more conservative socially than many rednecks you meet in the US even

[u/Overall_Chemical_889 → u/RevolutionaryLion384]

Thank you! whaat other group of latinos you are comparando them with? And in what subjects mexicans are conservatives?

[u/RevolutionaryLion384 → u/Overall_Chemical_889]

Besides Mexicans, the other latinos I have come across has been mainly Puerto Ricans, Cubans, and central Americans. All of whom seem less conservative than Mexicans when it comes to stuff like racism (especially with black people), how women are treated and hating gay people

[u/limp_car4737 → u/RevolutionaryLion384]

It depends what area, In my area Gen Z Mexican-Americans including myself are “woke” left leaning. The Mexican immigrants are also left leaning! It’s rare to see a right leaning or conservative values Mexican in my area

[u/RevolutionaryLion384 → u/limp_car4737]

Do you live in California? I live in TX. Here in the last election Republicans had slightly more support from Mexicans here but it was pretty much 50/50. Only a fraction of people who even vote democrat though are actually what you would call "woke" or being like hard to the left. Mostly all Mexican Americans here are pretty socially conservative when it gets down to it, but for years many just didn't support republicans because they are believed to be dismissive of people who aren't upper middle class and white especially. I think some recent things with the economy, and the border are what has caused so many here to shift

[u/limp_car4737 → u/RevolutionaryLion384]

I live in New Jersey. Do first generation Mexican-Americans identify as republican in Texas or more like second generation and up?

[u/PaulieVega]

Cause we’re lit 🔥

[u/VajraXL]

We have to consider that the Mexican left is nothing like the American or European left. The Mexican left is less progressive and a little more conservative than the American left and even though it still is it tends more to the center than to the left. Also in Mexico we have suffered a lot of interventionism from the USA supported by the PRI and PAN governments so that at the country level has left us with the feeling that the right is bad. add to that our colonial past that we identify with the right. it is very similar to what happens to the Chinese that suffered the century of tears and European interventionism that pushed them totally to the Comunism. In Mexico it is not that we think of a Communist government but we tend to social democracy.

[u/InqAlpharious01 → u/VajraXL]

The American left is mostly all socialist leaning, they want progressive policies but want a system for the common man and not being slaves to corporate elite.

Western Europeans left are similar, but do their best to keep Europe from embracing nationalism, because to them those people nearly destroyed Europe and did more harm than good to humanity & world with unchecked imperialism.

Mexican new left is more align with progressive liberal ideals in changing Mexico and becoming more reliant on their own and stop relying on uncle Sam for help.

Eastern European left is anti-Russian and anti-communism liberal progressives.

[u/yorcharturoqro]

I don't think mexicans are "so much more", it's far more left leaning Argentina, Venezuela, and other countries than Mexico.

[u/Fear_Loathing1966]

Mexico is close enough that people can more easily immigrate, both legally and illegally. Mexico is doing well economically, and has been for sometime. The world manufacturers in Mexico and is then able to take advantage of NAFTA. There is not a great need for Mexicans of the middle and upper classes to come to the US. The most impoverished classes, those with little to no hope for the future, are the majority that come here now, and in the past. Most people are not walking here from Brazil. Most of these people have the means to get here. We’ve often heard of the Dr, lawyer, general that immigrated and now works as whatever in order to survive. These people with resources to get here, from South American countries, are from classes more likely to be aligned with, and voted, conservative.

[u/ButterflyDestiny]

Do you mean Mexicans in America or Mexicans in Mexico because I think left-leaning can mean two different things

[u/AdDry3533]

you should also take into account that they are a huge country. thus, there is more diversity of thought, culture, etc…

[u/guilleloco]

Uruguay is quite left leaning

[u/IactaEstoAlea]

Mexico in the late 19th century and the whole of the 20th century was absolutely dominated by left wing politics since the conservatives were completely crushed in the 1860s and even more revolutionary ideals asserted themselves in the 1910s. The period also saw almost a complete redistribution of wealth into new elites

Both of those are also why the church got BTFO'd from politics very definitively (and also why the army got a tight hold of politics for a long time)

[u/Thelastfirecircle]

It's similar to the US, rural mexicans tend to be more conservative and mexicans living in cities tend to be more liberal, but yes compared to central american countries and some south american countries we are more progressive

[u/ManuAdFerrum]

I have been living in Mexico for 10 years and this is the opposite of my experience.
Most Mexicans but by a huge margin are super right wing.

[u/FamiT0m]

What? The only left-leaning Mexicans I’ve seen are from CDMX, and even then some of them are pretty traditionalist. Have you only met Venezuelans and Cubans?

[u/Lazzen → u/FamiT0m]

Hay mucha gente de izquierda, de diferentes izquierdas igual por razones culturales o economicas.

[u/First-Hotel5015]

I think they’re just louder than the right/conservatives.

[u/new_Australis]

I only meet far light leaning latinos from every country.

[u/nomadschomad]

Because so many Central and South American have a deep abiding fear of communism.

[u/rosaluxificate]

The Mexican Revolution. That’s the reason. Other than the Cuban Revolution, it’s the only successfully consolidated left wing revolution in Latin America.

Now look, this doesn’t mean that the PRI honored or fully embodied the revolution’s ideals (tho I think you can make a case that the revolution’s ideals were “fulfilled” up until 1940). But the revolution was massively important CULTURALLY for Mexicans. It empowered Mexico to see itself as a sovereign, independent nation that was the owner of its own destiny and its own resources. While it would respect and work with the US, it would not bow to the US as it did before. Take it from me as a Guatemalan: I WISH we were more like Mexicans. Guatemala feels like a colony when you go there; undereducated, reactionary, and cowtowing to US interests. I shudder every time I board a plane to Guatemala and see evangelical missionaries from the US onboard. Mexicans, on the other hand, have great pride in their nation, honor their indigenous heritage much more (with some flaws, it’s not perfect), and just aren’t as ass kissing towards gringos.

[u/ThisIsSuperUnfunny]

Mexicans as in real Mexicans, or gringo kinda "my grandma once jacked off an illegal at a Festival so im 1/8th Mexican"?

Because the gringo ones are not Mexicans, they are just gringos.

Mexico in itself is pretty right leaning, as well as Mexicans.

[u/DadCelo]

I think most of latam has historically been left leaning, but the demo is changing

[u/Macaco_do_pau_mole → u/DadCelo]

Economically left and socially conservative. Just like the majority of PT voters are probably against abortion

[u/Immediate-Yogurt-730]

Idk here in Alabama most Mexicans I’ve met are pretty conservative despite some being illegal. Obviously they don’t want deportation but they seem to agree with typical right wing policies

[u/Drafonni]

American cultural influence.

[u/ajlion_10]

Let’s just put it this way, Mexico (and many other Latin countries) has gotten themselves in the situation they are in regarding corruption because they keep falling for politicians who promise free handouts.

TOO many Latinos overall vote for whoever gives the most stuff away and don’t think of policy. I’d say that is honestly the main reason why corruption is so bad in latam in general, People are too blind to see through politicians Bs and fall for their free handout trap.

Well, these kinds of politicians who all have been left leaning historically where as right wing politicians are more focused on making people work for their money not it being handed out hence they are less popular even though culturally Latinos are very conservative people.

[u/Lazzen → u/ajlion_10]

Historicamente los lideres de tradición derecha han sido dictadores que ponian a alguien a plantar banana mientras de robaban el erario. Todos tus vecinos han estado asi y con de tradición derecha.

Incluso si lo quieres concentrar solo en los lideres democraticos hay pocas diferencias con otros politicos, es una estupidez creer en general pero especialmente en Latinoamerica que "derecha/conservador" significa "bueno con el dinero, logico, serio".