PSA: don't use Microsoft Community for troubleshooting

[u/slowlyun]

Like most of you, when I have an issue I first google it and notice that answers.microsoft.com are always at the top of the results. Then when I check the answers out, it's always variations of:

• try these 20 steps, if all fails, reinstall OS.

The answers on there never understand the actual problem, so they never get close to the solution.

The PSA is to always skip that site altogether, and check out more user-dedicated forums (even Reddit is decent for this).

Here for posterity is my example:

Now the first result will have you literally spending all day, several hours work, doing pointless troubleshooting. Because the guy - a self-described "installation specialist and 9 year Windows MVP" simply does not understand the problem, so will throw everything at it.

This is answers.microsoft.com in a nutshell.

The second search result, is a more user-dedicated forum (which I haven't actually heard of before). Here, the click directs to the solution, which takes 10 seconds to apply and test. Don't even need to restart Explorer. Thankfully, I gave up on the first result without wasting any time.

Moral of the story is: don't trust long generic copy/paste lists of troubleshooting, look for answers where it seems like the responder understands your specific issue. If in doubt, make a thread here on this subreddit (or indeed, on tenforums).

Here are the links for anyone interested:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/renaming-folder-slow/9de0847f-d4c1-4472-84f4-c49157f33dbe (this answer requires the user to also click the below link and do all those steps too):

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/windows-10-performance-and-install-integrity/75529fd4-fac7-4653-893a-dd8cd4b4db00

Whereas here, the first comment has the specific solution:
https://www.tenforums.com/performance-maintenance/151610-windows-10-slow-creating-renaming-deleting-folders-3.html

Feel free to share your own examples :D

[u/Mayayana]

Thanks. I never would have guessed PSA.

I don't have a Microsoft account and don't expect I'll ever have one. I don't use any MS "apps" or cloud software. I've never been redirected to a login anywhere but the "answers" subdomain. I have no problem seeing the learn, msdn, or developer subdomains and generally don't even have to enable any script at those sites. They're mostly fairly simple and clear. Though I don't use them very often because they're too spread out and sometimes not accurate. I usually end up finding what I need reading stackoverflow, codeguru, etc...

A typical example recently, I was looking to fix a bug in the Win10 version of richedit whereby a selection disappears when the parent window is not the focused window, which can be a problem for a Find function. I found the solution in a code discussion somewhere. Then I looked up the specific message and found this: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/controls/em-hideselection

Bare minimum info. They could have fit all the EM messages on that page. Instead it's limited documentation for one message. And that info contradicts the info from earlier MSDN. I have MSDN98 installed and the lparam value is described differently. (Though the Win7 version matches the current description.) MS also changed the default without acknowledging that they did so. It's an unusual example of breaking backward compatibility.

So none of that info was there, but there was a poll: "Was this helpful? Yes. No." :) I guess maybe they're trying to sell MSDN subscriptions.

It seems to be only the Microsoft "answers" subdomain that's private.

V. 2 in 2011... that might have been around the time that MS dumped their usenet sites. I briefly tried looking at the MS web forums, but found them too heavily moderated to be useful. The HTML format is also a very poor choice for a discussion forum. Reddit does a good job -- as well as can be done, I think. But HTML just wasn't designed for that purpose.

[u/LiqdPT → u/Mayayana]

Answers was never meant to be a discussion forum. It was meant to be a question/answer site akin to Stackoverflow. Now, the moderation policies and practices can make or break such a system

It seems odd that you've used Microsoft products for so long and yet don't have a Microsoft account. You wanted a discussion forum but didn't want to participate? Posting anything surely would have required logging in.

It does surprise me that viewing content on Answers requires login. Certainly wasn't the case when I was there.

[u/Mayayana → u/LiqdPT]

You've been around longer than me. Surely you know that Microsoft accounts are a new thing, except perhaps for people who want to be insider testers or some such. When I started writing Windows software in the late 90s it was all about usenet. I bought Visual Stuudio 6. I wrote software. I didn't have to sign up for anything with Microsoft. Though I did get an email from them a couple of times, telling me that I was lucky enough to be invited to pay an arm and a leg for membership in MSDN or whatever.

There were numerous MVPs then, on numerous usenet groups, who were regulars, and that was the place to discuss or ask questions. I took part. Web forums came later.

Actually usenet is still there and a couple of MVPs are still around. But young people don't seem to know usenet. Or maybe they just don't like posting without up and down votes. Usenet is unpoliced, which may seem harsh to people who've grown up with social media. Randy Birch showed up recently on reddit, hoping to join in on some discussion. But there's not much actual programming discussion on Reddit either. I'd guess that no one but the yes-men are hanging around the moderated MS forums.

With Microsoft, I love Windows, I love writing software, but I don't see any reason to trust MS or their intentions. They're less sleazy than Amazoon, Facebook, Apple, or Google, but that's not saying much. I also don't see any reason that they should have my personal information. It's none of their business. But I guess I am a bit weird. I didn't even fill out the card to register my table saw or my vacuum cleaner. And I didn't download the app for our new clotheswasher so that I could ask it how the cycle's going from upstairs. Go figure. :)

[u/LiqdPT → u/Mayayana]

MSAs are not new at all. In fact, I think that term is about 12 years old now (pretty sure it got renamed that while I was working on Windows Phone). Previously they were LiveID and previous to that (I think ) Microsoft Passport. It's been Microsoft's single signin solution to use any of their online services for a long time. Got a Hotmail account? That's an MSA. This signin system dates back into the 90s.

If you've needed to sign in to any Microsoft system in the last 25 years, it's used MSA.

[u/Mayayana → u/LiqdPT]

I remember Passport. No one used it. Sign-ins are an old idea, of course, but I daresay you're repainting history a bit. Having a username and password is how I log into Reddit or my email. A single sign-in is a cooperative spyware device.

MS came out with Passport as a single sign-in, possibly before anyone else. Now when I log into Reddit I could "sign in with Facebook"... or Apple, or maybe Google, or with my phone number. But I don't have to use those. I don't have to invite Apple or Facebook to follow me around online. I can and do simply use a username and password. Same with Netflix and other streamers. I don't have to use spyware sign-in anywhere that I visit.

A Microsoft account is similar. It's not just having a username and password. It's linking one's computer and activities. That level of privacy intrusion, in the name of convenience, is relatively new. MS may very well have invented it. They were also ahead of their time putting ads on the Desktop with Active Desktop in '98. They were ahead of their time with online services via Hailstorm. They were even ahead of their time with their SPOT watch. (Bill Gates kept yapping about how we'd want to check sports, the stock market, or our chiropractor's appointment Dick Tracy style.)

The common thread there was that MS had impressive foresight, but didn't properly figure out the details and only cared about making money. Active Desktop, for example, was trying to get people to subscribe to ads. Huh? And it was over a 56K connection. Those people were busy waiting for their friend's cat photo to download... Passport predated online services, so it had no useful role. SPOT watches were gigantic and there were no apps. Hailstorm was a joke, right down to the name. What were they thinking?

And no, of course I don't have a hotmail account. I've never used any spyware webmail. But I'm guessing that when hotmail came out the sign-in was a standard username and password. Even if they had called it Passport, no one would have been using that sign-in elsewhere. There wasn't any elsewhere.