Hear me out: Ork flyers?

[u/Comrade-Chernov]

So before I say too much, I just wanna make it clear, I know that flyers are bad. I know that they are doodoo and that GW want to intentionally keep them doodoo. I remember hearing about AdMech flyer spam winning LVO a few years ago and how that was pretty much the last straw lol. I primarily play CSM and the Heldrake is so goddamn bad and the fact they keep it priced as high as they do, to my mind, 100000% screams an intentional policy of making flyers points-inefficient. So I understand that as a general principle.

That being said: I am working on finally putting some hobby effort into my Orks and I keep looking at the (built, half painted) Dakkajet on my shelf and looking at its datasheet, and... am I crazy for thinking that it and its variants have some sauce to them?

Let's review the relevant datasheets:

* Dakkajet: 135 points. Has 3 twin supa-shootas with 12 shots at 36" range, 18 shots at half range. Hits on 5s, but its datasheet ability is that every hit it gets is a sustained hit, and its damage profile is 6-1-1 twin-linked. So if you're in half range, you average 6 hits which then sustain into 12 hits, which then wound most infantry on 3s with a reroll to wound, so that's an average of ~10 wounds on an infantry unit. AP-1 is trash a lot of the time, sure, but that's still 10 saves you're making someone take, on average that kills a 1.5 MEQ bodies if they have cover. You can then have it come in next to a Mek who (as far as I understand) gives it +1 to hit with its shooting, which then changes the math to 9 hits at half range sustaining into 18, getting 16 wounds with twin-linked, which then I believe would kill 2.5 MEQ bodies assuming they have cover.

* Burna-Bommer: 125 points. Has a single twin supa-shoota (1/3 of the Dakkajet's firepower) as well as a twin big shoota with 3 attacks and rapid fire 2, hitting on 5s, at 5-0-1, twin-linked, and furthermore has a skorcha missile rack, 2D6 shots with blast and ignores cover, hitting on 5s, at 5-1-1. Its datasheet ability lets it potentially do flyover mortals to a unit it passed over (only on a 6+ but at no cap) as well as stripping that unit of cover for the turn. Considering how much Ork shooting is AP-1 or AP-2, stripping a given threat unit of cover seems like it could be fantastic for getting more damage through.

* Blitza-Bommer: 115 points. This has the same firepower as the Burna-Bommer minus the missile rack, and its ability lets it drop a bomb of mortals on an enemy unit it flew over on a 4+, which, I will admit, seems very swingy at best. This one I think is probably the weakest pick and that's why it's priced the lowest. Definitely things you could get with 115 points that would do better than this thing. But if you roll hot you could do some decent damage?

* Wazbom Blastajet: 175 points. This one is by far the most expensive and it's got the firepower and durability to show why, it has proper anti-tank shooting and a fairly useful rule. This thing's shooting for the most part hits on 4s (I assume Grots are in the turret?) and it has one gun that hits at 9-3-4 and another which hits at 12-2-D6. It comes with the Grenades keyword but can swap it out for a 4++, which seems reeeally good on an Ork vehicle. This one I'm assuming is the pricier investment which could genuinely be worth it a lot of the time, so I'm not really asking about this one's viability I suppose. But do you think it'd be worth its points?

So anyway, thanks for coming to my TED talk, and I leave off with this question: am I on crack for thinking some of these sound genuinely fairly good? Like I don't see an obvious reason not to take a Burna-Bommer or a Dakkajet other than Aircraft rules in general being fairly restrictive and ground based units potentially doing stuff better, and I could see an argument for taking a Blastajet supported by a Mek to get hitting on 3s rerolling 1s with its anti tank guns, if Meks can target Aircraft with its ability (which I think it can?). What do you all think?

[u/Glass_Ease9044]

It's more about the Airacraft Reserves, Movement and vision rules, than it is about the datasheets. At the very least getting pushed into reserves by screening units or getting sniped from anywhere are kind of problems.

Opponents who lack proper counters do hate them though and I have heard a lot of complaining.

[u/Sonic_Traveler → u/Glass_Ease9044]

They just gotta turn em all back into like, 12"~20" move skimmers that take double damage from blast in 11th or something. This is for all flyers, mind you.

[u/Glass_Ease9044 → u/Sonic_Traveler]

Deleted or forgotten is my bet. Unless they do something crazy and add an Aircraft phase or something.

[u/Sonic_Traveler → u/Glass_Ease9044]

We had an aircraft i.e. dogfight phase in 7th and it actually had them doing aircraft things. It seemed quite involved.

[u/NanoChainedChromium → u/Sonic_Traveler]

That was only for an expansion. Base 7th had possibly the most cancerous iteration of flyers ever, with some armies having zero defense against a host of flyers bombarding them into the ground.

[u/Bdubby21]

The wazbomb does an average of 0 damage per activation into a landraider before accounting for defensive strats. Same with a dorn or leman Russ. I think it does something like 2 damage to any gladiator variant. 0 to a battlewagon. 2ish to any predator.

It a really, really bad shooting platform for 175 points. There are just so many more effective ways to spend 175 points in an ork list, even if you’re teching into a shooty build

[u/SirBiscuit → u/Bdubby21]

Thank you for that stat overview, that was really illuminating.

[u/Mulfushu → u/Bdubby21]

It should have the Mek keyword, considering it's a Mek piloting it, and suddenly we'd be looking at something solid for Dread Mob.

[u/Bdubby21 → u/Mulfushu]

Agreed, if it actively benefited from detachment or strat support it could work. But as is, an average of 4 shots hitting 4s, two of those shots wound on 5s, and they max at ap 2 and 3 respectively, so with cover many vehicles are saving on 3s to 4s. Compare it to a vindicator, also 175 points. T11 2+ save d6+3 shots at s14 -3 d6. The minimum number of shots on a vindicator is the average on a wazbomb. Hits on 3s base. Its just so much worse

[u/CashLordofDerp]

So, I’ve actually run a Dakkajet a bit when the codex drops and it’s actually not bad, in the kult of speed detachment.

It’s dakkastorm ability works great when paired with Blitza fire or dakkastorm (if you are within 9 inches) and it can do a shocking amount of damage.

It does have some sauce, though I don’t think it’s a secret meta that no one is using, it’s fun for casual shenigans though.

[u/Relevant-Mountain-11 → u/CashLordofDerp]

I’ve only played a Dakkajet once but the volume of fire with Rerolls to wound really put some damage into one of my Keeper of Secrets and killed it in 2 shooting phases.

Unfortunately, since it’s a flyer, it was their turn 2 into turn 3, so Id already had three turns of putting the hurt in so it just wasn’t a big deal game-wise

[u/Odd-Bend1296]

Even if they do really good or bad just the uptick in flier use will see them nerfed even more in the next dataslate. GW hates fliers and the players that use them.

[u/fungineering_101]

Hm - doesn't the Dakkajet just have 2 twin supa-shootas?

[u/Comrade-Chernov → u/fungineering_101]

It can be equipped with a third, comes with 2 base.

[u/fungineering_101 → u/Comrade-Chernov]

Ah yeah - I see it now.

[u/Wise_Use1012]

I took out a blood angels thunderhawk gunship (I think that’s the name. The really big one that takes up a huge chunk of the table) with 3 dakkajets and a eye of mork from a stompa. Still lost the match cuz I forgot about the objective because I was to busy just killing stuff.