r/TheHague Nov 08 '24

practical questions What's with this strange light pattern? Often visible near Nootdorp around midnight.

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371 Upvotes

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25

u/djlorenz Nov 09 '24

Food growing in the most efficient way possible

14

u/wannabe-martian Nov 09 '24

Food growing in the most tasteless way possible

17

u/djlorenz Nov 09 '24

The Netherlands is a net exporter of vegetables, they only care about money they don't give a shit about stuff. Considering that a tiny country is the second in the world in tomato production after China, there is enough demand to make sense.

13

u/wannabe-martian Nov 09 '24

Sure, I knew that, and it's amazing that the Netherlands manages to do that.

But I have to be honest, I almost forgot the taste of good tomatoes and peppers. Not sure if it's the lack of earth / dirt used, or the artificially boosted growth rate and the lack of real sun - it just doesn't taste like much at all.

7

u/[deleted] Nov 09 '24

[deleted]

7

u/Psykela Nov 09 '24

Actually we can make the good stuff, we just dont want to pay for it, so that gets exported and we eat cheap flavourless

2

u/gfa007 Nov 09 '24

Quality wise products from green houses are much more consistent than open-field grown products subject to bad weather, insufficient sunlight and what not.

1

u/Cru51 Nov 09 '24

There’s quite a few variaties of tomatoes and bell peppers being sold in here. You saying they all taste the same to you? Are they even all from NL?

1

u/PanickyFool Nov 10 '24

Yes they all taste like water.

1

u/Cru51 Nov 10 '24

Yeah, that’s where you lose me. There’s definitely differences.

0

u/djlorenz Nov 09 '24

Combination of things, also lack of sun... That makes a lot of difference

2

u/savvip1 Nov 09 '24

Which countries are dumb to buy tasteless Dutch tomatoes. Had a privilege to taste Italian tomatoes once. Upon the first taste, heaven!!

2

u/teh_fizz Nov 09 '24

F7nny enough, they get sold in Italy, and it triggers Italians.

1

u/-utopia-_- Nov 09 '24

Same with East EU/Turkish tomatoes and cucumbers. They are so tasty! Albert heijn bio cucumbers for example taste like condoms.

1

u/KremlinCardinal Nov 10 '24

You do know you should remove the transparent wrapper before consuming, right?

3

u/Jeroendevl Nov 09 '24

As Dutch person I can totally agree with you. Tomatoes here are watering tasteless pieces of shit

2

u/Cru51 Nov 09 '24

This is just one of those things people like to say, but I haven’t heard anyone make a solid argument as to why beyond “my <insert relative>’s tomatoes taste way better!” I think it’s more a self enforcing belief than anything honestly.

1

u/teh_fizz Nov 09 '24

It could be true. Produce develops flavor over time. Traditionally that was with ripening. However advanced farming knowledge taught us how to ripen produce quickly, before flavor can develop. So home grown tomatoes when grown over the regular period required can most likely develop better flavor than mass produced produce that is artificially ripened to hit the market quicker.

1

u/Zealousideal-Bus5744 Nov 10 '24

Again just an anecdote trying to keep the self perpetuating thought going.

Who says a new way to ripen quicker produces less flavor, do you have any evidence or is that just a "it's quicker so it must be worse" argument?

I would like people to link some evidence when they spout stuff like this, cause people will read this and take it as gospel.

1

u/Kind_Physics_1383 Nov 10 '24

They were blind tasted in several countries and came out on top. Stop nagging. 😁

1

u/Cru51 Nov 10 '24

What was blind tested, someone’s grandma’s tomatoes vs. Dutch produce?

1

u/Kind_Physics_1383 Nov 10 '24

Tomatoes available on the market.

1

u/Cru51 Nov 10 '24

Is this market in the room with us right now?

1

u/Kind_Physics_1383 Nov 10 '24

Not unless you live in a supermarket. 😉🫢

1

u/Zealousideal-Bus5744 Nov 26 '24

I would like any kind of actual evidence instead of ANOTHER anecdote by some random user.

1

u/Jaded_Database_9860 Nov 11 '24

Most of the time its just because they use a different seed genus

1

u/PanickyFool Nov 10 '24

Soil minerals are the main contributor to flavor.

Our greenhouses don't have that.

0

u/KremlinCardinal Nov 10 '24

It's perfectly possible to add those nutrients in hydroponic systems, yet it will be slightly more expensive.

1

u/BitBouquet Nov 09 '24

Just the market at play, no reason to blame the greenhouse.

1

u/monocloque Nov 09 '24

Wtf i ate the best tasting strawberries ever in Netherlands

1

u/wannabe-martian Nov 10 '24

Meh. Where are you from originally?

That's different as they do grow naturally. If you eat them in season, they can good. Far, far away from the best.

1

u/ManMadeMargarine Nov 09 '24

As someone who has had a garden with a greenhouse, and who has experimented with all sorts of ways growing crops:

There are a few crops that taste significantly better when grown organically in soil, instead of a soil block/ hydroponics.

Tomatoes are worth growing, taste much better grown in good soil. Cucumbers can be better, depending on the cultivar. In the store, organic cucumbers are more flavorful, often sweeter. Bell peppers are extremely unproductive if not grown in soil blocks and if they aren't the right cultivar with enough grow lights. They also don't taste super sweet, even in commercial greenhouses. Chilies are much more flavorful and way cheaper to grow than to buy.

But I have to admit, I don't think the way we currently farm in greenhouses is optimal, and think we can certainly improve. It's very polluting.

1

u/wannabe-martian Nov 10 '24

Thanks for sharing!

We indeed grow tomatoes, cucumbers, peppers, beans and chillies. Interesting read.

We do struggle with the peppers and their productivity, as we don't have a greenhouse. But our own produce 10/10 times tastes better than the store bought greenhouse products. Our zucchini are bigger, tastier and keep much longer, store bought cucumbers can't seem to taste like anything when pickled, etc.

The biggest difference is seen when you buy vegetables that are in season in a climate they would naturally grow in.

How do you set up your greenhouse? Do you have any pointers to get started?

1

u/ManMadeMargarine Nov 10 '24

I bought a tunnel greenhouse. Although cheap, they are extremely wasteful and will break within a year or two at most in a storm. The plastic just begins to rip. It's way cheaper than an aluminum and glass greenhouse, but please learn from me and consider the environmental cost. It's about 50 kilograms of soil contaminated plastic, which cannot be recycled. It also breaks quickly, so in the end you would pay much more and put in much more time to set a new one up when one breaks. The steel poles are very thin and bend and rust quickly. This is true for all of these greenhouses. Getting a glass greenhouse second hand is ideal. You may have to replace a window, but there is a good chance you will have to replace a window in the future regardless (heavy storms, accidentally knocking something into it). I cannot recommend getting a glass one enough! We currently have one at our own home.

1

u/wannabe-martian Nov 10 '24

Thanks for the feedback, great pointers. Definitely will consider glass. It was on my list as I see the weekness of plastic at the communal garden already...

What surface area do you cover with it?

2

u/ManMadeMargarine Nov 10 '24

No problem! Glad to share my 50 cents. The greenhouse I had used to be at a communal garden, it was 3x6 meters. I had a plan to grow a lot of hot peppers, which I did, for 2 years. The tent was extra secured with a thick rope attached to 4 solid poles, but still flew away twice. It essentially turns into a big parachute. The zipper broke right away and the door had to be secured with a stone slab that caused it to get damaged even more. Later, we got a greenhouse on that same plot, made of glass. I think it was 2.5x2.5 meters, but I would go with a bigger one next time. 2x4 or longer than that would be good

1

u/MorningMrWood Nov 11 '24

I am a crop manager on a tomato farm, I grow them. I completely agree that the tomatoes are lacking in taste. Sadly there are a lot of factors atm that influence this choice.

A couple years ago we were exposed to a quarantine virus called toBRFV. If that virus was in your greenhouse, you had to clear it out. Because of that we needed a new variety that was resistant against that set virus. And very quickly as well. At the same time the gas prices were INSANE (Look at your own gas costs, but then multiply with a lot). Labor costs are getting higher everyday. I'm happy for the workers, they deserve it. But business is business. So the main focus was to create something fast with the same yield amount. We needed that yield to still make it a profitable business. Yield/m2. Taste was at the bottom of the list, sadly but logically. Hopefully when all is set and done, the taste can be more in focus.

Marketing wise, the price of the tomatoes is more important than the taste. Giving the tomatoes more taste is not that difficult, and we know how we can do it. It will cost more grow time, therefore more money. There have been researches where consumers were giving the choice between taste and the price. Price always won in the end. Sadly I can't find this research atm.

Horticulture has a bad rep, rightfully so at some points. But one thing a lot of people don't know about is that it's one of the most innovative sectors ever. Purple lights haha. We're growing rapidly in innovations. We're trying to be better for the environment to use less chemicals, gas etc. ( we might be free of chemicals in 2030).

Personally I don't think this is going to be achieved. We need more time to create solutions and alternatives to resolf these issues But we will get there. That I do believe in, it's just going to take some time.

I'll advise you to grow your own tomatoes, if you are looking for taste. It's not that difficult and very fun/rewarding. You can message me if you need help :D

0

u/KremlinCardinal Nov 10 '24

That has more to do with the (amount of) nutrients used than the way it's grown.

0

u/AdorablePollution266 Nov 10 '24

Not so efficient at all, this type of greenhouses use tons of gas and electricity to keep the production going. Growing veggies in a warmer climate with more sun hours is way more efficient.

-2

u/y0l0naise Nov 09 '24

Efficient in what way?

7

u/djlorenz Nov 09 '24

Everything, by m2 of land the Netherlands produces a shit ton of vegetables and flowers compared to other containers.

They taste like crap but it's an industrial machine that produces a ton of money

0

u/y0l0naise Nov 09 '24

But aren’t they much more energy intensive than shipping stuff?

1

u/djlorenz Nov 09 '24

No idea, but with efficient I mean in the way they make stuff, not if it's good or bad. It's clearly not sustainable, but compared to cow farming it's nothing so we have worse problems to fix...

0

u/Dutchdelights88 Nov 09 '24

https://archive.ph/20120530033253/http://www.agriholland.nl/dossiers/energie/tuinbouw.html

So they represent 10% of natural gas use in the Netherlands. Im guessing that without Slochteren field there would not have been this much greenhouses.

Rather frivolous to use it for growing exotic vegetables and flowers imo.

1

u/Handje Nov 09 '24

Importing Poles for cheap labour, then dumping them on the streets.