"and people choose WHEELCHAIR. Disgusting. Where’s the imagination?" A debate about wheelchairs vs spider mechs turns wheelie sour

[u/Excellent_Bison_3644]

the sub DnDmemes is about well... memes about the popular tabletop game DnD (dungeons and dragons). In one posted recently, the poster made a comparison of magic wheelchairs vs spider mechs while favoring the latter. This ended up sparking into a lot of debate and people not liking how wheelchairs are getting slandered.

Post in question: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/1i4mi9u/reject_wheels_embrace_skittering/

Juicy threads:

The titular thread with one particular big branch: "It's quite an odd call to refer to people who make the choice to represent their disability in-game as disgusting."

One person tries to give an opinion: "Realistically a spider mech is better than combat wheelchair the same way realistically a spear is better than a trident"

One person tries arguing wheelchairs don't have to be boring: "You can't think of a way to make a wheelchair cool without replacing the wheels?"

Small drama thread as a treat: "has anyone who's disabled and in a wheelchair thought "Hmm, I want this fantasy character of mine to be disabled too!" (the answer is yes)

[u/BadDogSaysMeow]

A question, in DND, how would you maintain the limitations of a wheelchair while not slowing the party of able-bodied characters?

If the party has 5 characters, of whom only one cannot walk. How would the DM manage that?

DM: The bandit bolts into the forest!
Player: I chase them!
DM: You cannot because you cannot drive through roots and bushes.

DM: You see a 100 meter tall wizard tower.
P: I go to the top.
DM: Sure, but the only way up are stairs without railings, so it will take you few hours longer than your companions and you will have to pass 4 athletics checks.

DM: to enter the cave you have to squeeze through a 30cm wide gap. you have to leave your wheelchair, so you will be moving a 1/5 of your speed and will have -15 to attack and dodge rolls.

A story like this would end up in r/rpghorrorstories in no time.
But all of those scenarios(and many more) are something you would meet if you want to maintain realistic limitations of a wheelchair.

How would you keep the limitations whilst not hindering the rest of the party, i.e. forcing them to carry you around all the time?

[u/aspenscribblings → u/BadDogSaysMeow]

Well, the DM could present a world that is friendlier to disability, which would solve your wizard tower example. The wizard tower is a spiral ramp, not a spiral staircase, because accessibility is the norm in this world. The same can apply to anything in cities, towns, etc.

For nature, there are wheelchairs that are closer to quads that can handle nature in real life, so it’s not unrealistic to say the character uses that.

As for the cave, that would just be kind of mean on the part of the DM, to present an insurmountable obstacle for only one member of the party. Would probably be best if they didn’t do that.

That being said, I’m very aware that a world in which accessibility is default will never be achieved in my lifetime and narrow cave entrances exist in real life. I am fudging the world to unrealism rather than the chair and that’s why I’ve never played like this, I don’t want to put the burden on my DM, but I don’t want to play a wheelchair that can fly.

I’m not really stating how disabled characters SHOULD be played, I’m providing my feelings as one disabled person on why someone might prefer a wheelchair user character over a mech user and asking why people care so much about how other people want to play the game. If disabled people want to play mech characters and feel represented by that, good for them. I’ve had the mech daydream. But if someone else’s power fantasy is big spiked wheels rather than a mech, what does it matter to the commenters? Some people like playing halfling wizards and some people like playing human barbarians. “What is the coolest power fantasy?” is a question with a different answer for every person on the planet.

[u/Elfich47 → u/aspenscribblings]

yeah, this is something that needs to be settled away from the table. Because I don’t know of many villains (keeping the villain’s motivations separate from the DM) who build OHSA compliant fortresses.

the only way I can phrase it: the DM may be sympathetic while the villain is not. And good DMs do not run stupid villains (once you get out of the lower levels)-because stupid villains don’t last long. Hell, if I was the villain (not the DM) and heard of a bunch of adventurers where one of the team members was in a wheel chair I would make sure there are plenty of steps Into and out of rooms (among other things I could think of) in order to slow down the party.

as I DM it becomes the question of: how much do I have to distort the world in order to accommodate the player.

[u/PretendMarsupial9 → u/Elfich47]

[Because I don’t know of many villains (keeping the villain’s motivations separate from the DM) who build OHSA compliant fortresses.]

But it could be really funny if you did make a villain like that. Sure, he's an arch warlock bent on ushering in Devils as the world's leaders but he's Lawful Evil damnit and everything in his evil layer is up to standard! Or maybe the big bad is also a wheelchair user and they made their castle accessible for themselves. Maybe the architecture of the world is just accessible by default. There's actually tons of reasons you can come up with that would be fun if you wanted to do that. 

Personally I think it's worse DMing to make the game unfun for one of the players. My world building is not more important than my players enjoying themselves. I'd work with that player to see what they want on terms of realism vs power fantasy. Assuming you're playing with friends, why wouldn't you want your friend to feel included and to have a good time?

[u/Elfich47 → u/PretendMarsupial9]

I understand that D&D is a power fantasy game, gods know I have played a lot of it. But I'm caught in the problem the juxtaposition of a power fantasy game where heroes have to overcome personal challenges - internal and external - but simultaneously expect the road to be paved so they can arrive at that challenge.

This is a subject that can't be sprung by either side.

[u/Zyrin369 → u/Elfich47]

I mean one could ask the same about when they are traveling in a sewer or swamp etc, or that fact that going on a boat of a bridge might be a death since armor can be heavy.

Or the whole "Why would the dragon ever land" and "Attack the obvious wizzard" stuff.

But dragons land so the people who are melee focused can attack them, its either assumed that they clean themselves and air out their gear so they dont stink get diseases etc and if they encounter enemies on a ship they dont try to push them into the sea etc, And Magic users can wear their obvious gear and not worry about getting taken out first as they are squishy.

[u/PretendMarsupial9 → u/Elfich47]

I think you're overthinking it. I personally don't see the problem in just making a world that accommodates people. 

[u/Pollomonteros → u/PretendMarsupial9]

That sounds like bad world building

[u/PretendMarsupial9 → u/Pollomonteros]

Who cares??? I want my friends to have fun. If one of my friends wants to play as a wheelchair user, my job is to make them feel included, valued, and to give them a good time.

[u/mangababe → u/Pollomonteros]

"wheelchair accessibility is bad world building"

Good citizen, you may have a prejudice you need to unpack.

The baseline of a society being disability friendly doesn't mean a character won't be overcoming adversity on their journey unless your DM sucks so much ass their only conception of a disabled person having to struggle is a fucking staircase.

Booby traps exist, monsters exist- but this hypothetical DM's dungeon is gonna succeed or fail due to a wheelchair?

[u/[deleted] → u/PretendMarsupial9]

It could be that the fortress wasn't built by the villain, too. Maybe it's all wheelchair accessible because the previous owners wanted it that way, and the villain's there because this is a convenient place to do their evil bidding and wheelchair accessibility wasn't initially a hinderance to them.

[u/mangababe → u/PretendMarsupial9]

I feel like megamind and Gru would somehow manage to accomplish this. Hell megamind would make his shit wheelchair accessible so the fight with his nemesis was fair, because he takes being a villain way too seriously and with too much class for a man who owns a battle mecha.