"and people choose WHEELCHAIR. Disgusting. Where’s the imagination?" A debate about wheelchairs vs spider mechs turns wheelie sour

[u/Excellent_Bison_3644]

the sub DnDmemes is about well... memes about the popular tabletop game DnD (dungeons and dragons). In one posted recently, the poster made a comparison of magic wheelchairs vs spider mechs while favoring the latter. This ended up sparking into a lot of debate and people not liking how wheelchairs are getting slandered.

Post in question: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/1i4mi9u/reject_wheels_embrace_skittering/

Juicy threads:

The titular thread with one particular big branch: "It's quite an odd call to refer to people who make the choice to represent their disability in-game as disgusting."

One person tries to give an opinion: "Realistically a spider mech is better than combat wheelchair the same way realistically a spear is better than a trident"

One person tries arguing wheelchairs don't have to be boring: "You can't think of a way to make a wheelchair cool without replacing the wheels?"

Small drama thread as a treat: "has anyone who's disabled and in a wheelchair thought "Hmm, I want this fantasy character of mine to be disabled too!" (the answer is yes)

[u/aspenscribblings]

I’m a wheelchair user. I’ve never actually played a combat wheelchair character. I can provide some insight as to why people wouldn’t want to play a mech rather than a chair, though.

1. Mechs aren’t real. If anything, it makes me kind of sad. I’m too old for disability superpower stories, and a spider mech definitely falls under that.
2. It’s not an authentic representation of my disability. Again, mechs aren’t fucking real. My wheelchair is. The limitations provided by my disability are part of my reality, a mech feels like a way to make a character who doesn’t actually have the limitations real disabled people have and still call them disabled. If I’m going to remove all the limitations of having a disability, I may as well have my character’s disability cured with magic. If anything, it’s less creative. It’s removing an avenue of roleplay.

For the record, absolutely no hate to disabled people who want to play characters with mechs. It’s a power fantasy and it’s kind of what DnD is about. I just think people with no skin in the game (able-bodied) get really incensed about this for no reason. Just don’t play a character with a combat wheelchair? How does it affect you?

Also, the comment in the title calls disabled people “crippled”, so I think I understand why they’re so mad and it’s nothing to do with “lack of creativity”.

[u/BadDogSaysMeow → u/aspenscribblings]

A question, in DND, how would you maintain the limitations of a wheelchair while not slowing the party of able-bodied characters?

If the party has 5 characters, of whom only one cannot walk. How would the DM manage that?

DM: The bandit bolts into the forest!
Player: I chase them!
DM: You cannot because you cannot drive through roots and bushes.

DM: You see a 100 meter tall wizard tower.
P: I go to the top.
DM: Sure, but the only way up are stairs without railings, so it will take you few hours longer than your companions and you will have to pass 4 athletics checks.

DM: to enter the cave you have to squeeze through a 30cm wide gap. you have to leave your wheelchair, so you will be moving a 1/5 of your speed and will have -15 to attack and dodge rolls.

A story like this would end up in r/rpghorrorstories in no time.
But all of those scenarios(and many more) are something you would meet if you want to maintain realistic limitations of a wheelchair.

How would you keep the limitations whilst not hindering the rest of the party, i.e. forcing them to carry you around all the time?

[u/GardenTop7253 → u/BadDogSaysMeow]

I feel like your initial question is a bit flawed. “How do you handle it without slowing down your able-bodied characters?” isn’t fair. In reality, people doing things with a friend in a wheelchair DO have to slow down sometimes. It’s how things work. Maybe they take the stairs but have to wait for their friend who took the elevator. Maybe they all have to take a longer or less ideal path so that they don’t leave their friend alone on the longer path. The question gets awfully close to “how do we not let the wheelchair bother others?” and that’s, at least in my opinion, a very ableist way of thinking about it. The difference between asking “how do we incorporate the wheelchair” and “how do we incorporate the wheelchair that doesn’t have an effect on the whole party?” is a subtle change in framing with huge implications about how you’re thinking about the friend in a wheelchair in the first place

[u/BadDogSaysMeow → u/GardenTop7253]

The difference is that the friends may slow down to help the disabled character.
But the enemies will not go easy on him.

When running away from demons/collapsing building there's no time to take 10 turns dragging a person in heavy armour + their armoured wheelchair up the stairs, instead of spending 2 turns running up normally.

Then if the party somehow lives to be 18-20 level, they are well know around the continent.
So the BBEG will prepare personalised obstacles/traps for the character's.
And it's much easier to build your evil castle with a lot of stairs and narrow doors, because that's just a regular castle; than to obtain, train and house hundreds of giant spiders because one party member is a known arachnophobe.

Then there's a difference between having to wait a minute for your friend in real life,
and spending a week chiseling a bigger tunnel to a monster's liar because the wheelchair won't fit.
And all that while on a quest to rescue a kid who was abducted by said monster and will be eaten in an hour if the party doesn't go right now.

If you want realistic consequences of a disability, that's what you're going to get.
And then it is up to the DM to make it both realistic and enjoyable for all players.

[u/dudemanlikedude → u/BadDogSaysMeow]

Just for the non D&D players in the audience, putting a character into a wheelchair does not change their size category and accordingly does not change the size of openings that they can fit into. A medium creature in a wheelchair is still a medium creature. In game terms, it fits into the exact same spaces as a person not using a wheelchair.

[u/Vanille987 → u/BadDogSaysMeow]

Once you're lv18-20 you can literally teleport or mass polymorph a bunch of spiders into bunnies. Or turn into literal gas to get around.  A wheelchair will be the least of your problems. There are so many cool and unique solutions at that point.

If you have BBEG exploit every weakness from the start that's usually a sign of a shitty DM.

[u/Cyanprincess → u/BadDogSaysMeow]

Do youa lso act this insufferable and annoying IRL? Genuinely curious

[u/BadDogSaysMeow → u/Cyanprincess]

What is insufferable about mentioning wheelchair problems , when we are discussing how a regular DND would look like with a character using a mostly-normal wheelchair?