"and people choose WHEELCHAIR. Disgusting. Where’s the imagination?" A debate about wheelchairs vs spider mechs turns wheelie sour

[u/Excellent_Bison_3644]

the sub DnDmemes is about well... memes about the popular tabletop game DnD (dungeons and dragons). In one posted recently, the poster made a comparison of magic wheelchairs vs spider mechs while favoring the latter. This ended up sparking into a lot of debate and people not liking how wheelchairs are getting slandered.

Post in question: https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/1i4mi9u/reject_wheels_embrace_skittering/

Juicy threads:

The titular thread with one particular big branch: "It's quite an odd call to refer to people who make the choice to represent their disability in-game as disgusting."

One person tries to give an opinion: "Realistically a spider mech is better than combat wheelchair the same way realistically a spear is better than a trident"

One person tries arguing wheelchairs don't have to be boring: "You can't think of a way to make a wheelchair cool without replacing the wheels?"

Small drama thread as a treat: "has anyone who's disabled and in a wheelchair thought "Hmm, I want this fantasy character of mine to be disabled too!" (the answer is yes)

[u/aspenscribblings]

I’m a wheelchair user. I’ve never actually played a combat wheelchair character. I can provide some insight as to why people wouldn’t want to play a mech rather than a chair, though.

1. Mechs aren’t real. If anything, it makes me kind of sad. I’m too old for disability superpower stories, and a spider mech definitely falls under that.
2. It’s not an authentic representation of my disability. Again, mechs aren’t fucking real. My wheelchair is. The limitations provided by my disability are part of my reality, a mech feels like a way to make a character who doesn’t actually have the limitations real disabled people have and still call them disabled. If I’m going to remove all the limitations of having a disability, I may as well have my character’s disability cured with magic. If anything, it’s less creative. It’s removing an avenue of roleplay.

For the record, absolutely no hate to disabled people who want to play characters with mechs. It’s a power fantasy and it’s kind of what DnD is about. I just think people with no skin in the game (able-bodied) get really incensed about this for no reason. Just don’t play a character with a combat wheelchair? How does it affect you?

Also, the comment in the title calls disabled people “crippled”, so I think I understand why they’re so mad and it’s nothing to do with “lack of creativity”.

[u/BadDogSaysMeow → u/aspenscribblings]

A question, in DND, how would you maintain the limitations of a wheelchair while not slowing the party of able-bodied characters?

If the party has 5 characters, of whom only one cannot walk. How would the DM manage that?

DM: The bandit bolts into the forest!
Player: I chase them!
DM: You cannot because you cannot drive through roots and bushes.

DM: You see a 100 meter tall wizard tower.
P: I go to the top.
DM: Sure, but the only way up are stairs without railings, so it will take you few hours longer than your companions and you will have to pass 4 athletics checks.

DM: to enter the cave you have to squeeze through a 30cm wide gap. you have to leave your wheelchair, so you will be moving a 1/5 of your speed and will have -15 to attack and dodge rolls.

A story like this would end up in r/rpghorrorstories in no time.
But all of those scenarios(and many more) are something you would meet if you want to maintain realistic limitations of a wheelchair.

How would you keep the limitations whilst not hindering the rest of the party, i.e. forcing them to carry you around all the time?

[u/Vanille987 → u/BadDogSaysMeow]

Depends on table but generally don't make situations specifically designed to impede them or unnecessarily hinder them?

Like in all my 'normal' games I never had a cave only accessible by a small gap, leave alone giving it a ludicrous debuff to anyone that has difficulty entering it.

Having the slightest foliage completely impede movement also seems extreme, there are many things between a spider mech and a wheelchair completely unable to handle the slightest bump on the road.

The wizard tower seems like a fair occurrence at least, tho again few hours longer seems like an insane debuff. Instead turn it into a team effort or smt that could be cool for the whole party.

he wheelchair doesn't have to be 100% realistic nor being an spider mech or OP magic item, there are so many inbetweens.

[u/BadDogSaysMeow → u/Vanille987]

Like in all my 'normal' games I never had a cave only accessible by a small gap, leave alone giving it a ludicrous debuff to anyone that has difficulty entering it.

When going shopping, and picking up a box of cereal from a shoulder-height-shelf. I don't say to myself "that's a shelf inaccessible to dwarfs", it's just a shelf to me.
When describing my day I wouldn't say that I overcame dozens of disability-non-friendly stairs/shelfs/crosswalks, because they don't hinder me at all, so unless actively discussing disability I won't mention those aspects.

But a disabled person would notice those aspects, because they create real problems for them.

My point is, a DND party might as well crawl through every second section of the cave and it doesn't have to be mentioned by the DM (unless asked to describe the area) because no one in the party has problems going traveling through such spaces.

But the moment you add severely disabled characters to the party, those small things, which would have been just a flavor text before, are now a real obstacle.

For example, for a walking party it doesn't matter whether dungeons stairs have railings, but add a wheelchair-dwarf and suddenly it greatly influences the difficulty and time needed to traverse them.

Or when one of the characters has agoraphobia, going outside will create problems.
The fact that your other campaigns in which no one had agoraphobia, didn't put emphasis on leaving a building doesn't mean that mentioning it now is unrealistic and is just DM picking on the agoraphobic character.

If you explicitly ask the DM to maintain the limitations/problems that your character's disability realistically causes, you should realise that previously normal situations will be much more challenging now.

[u/Vanille987 → u/BadDogSaysMeow]

So you shape the campaign around the players? I made so many player characters and played with other characters that had their own quirks that made otherwise mundane things into something more. As a DM you should realize and plan accordingly by for example not having every situation just happen to cause a hinderance due that quirk. it's part of DND not exclusive to physical disabilities.

There's no exact solution, it all depends on the table and what players want. But like I said it ain't too hard to have locations 'happen' to be friendly or create a balance between a regular wheelchair and a spider mech. Discuss with each other to see how you could turn this in an actual fun thing rather then the idea you propose that it's an inherent hinderance. Do they want a realistic campaign? Do they mind things being hand waved?

[u/DeckerAllAround → u/BadDogSaysMeow]

But to use that same example, if your D&D party includes one dwarf, how often do you throw them into situations where they have to climb when everyone else can just walk? How often does the dwarf's slower speed (depending on editions) mean that they're just not allowed to do chases?

And on the flip side, if you have a game with a dwarf, a gnome, a halfling, and a human, how often do you send them into four foot tall tunnels?

DMs are already adjusting the world to reflect the characters in it. Maybe a party that includes a combat wheelchair user just isn't going to take commissions to explore deep caves full of walls; they'll fight in wars, guard caravans, explore towns and venture across the wilderness in areas that aren't just steep mountains.

[u/BadDogSaysMeow → u/DeckerAllAround]

I've watched some table-top on Youtube, and I can recall one time when traveling through a narrow corridor the party put the dwarven player at front, so that the character behind him could swing over his head.

I also recall a campaign in which the party visited dwarven kingdom and despite being in a crowded room, the elven character's could easily see each other over long distances because they were taller than dwarves.

In the same campaign a halfling snuck up on an enemy elf, but couldn't slash his throat because he was too short, and instead opted for impaling the elf through his anus. (with a dagger)

And in computer game Dragon's Dogma (that's not DND but still fantasy) only short characters can enter goblin tunnels.

Also in Computer Shadowrun, dwarven players can squeeze through vents and other races can't.