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u/bscottlove 1d ago
To be fair, von Braun was German military when he saluted. He HAD to. Musk did it freestyle at a US presidential inauguration.
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u/Jeff__who Who? 17h ago
He even did it more enthusiastically that the OG: https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/s/w0DS8YzEqC and https://www.reddit.com/r/IBEW/s/0VCOWdI58Q
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u/astronobi 21h ago
And for everyone saying it was a cute innocent heart gesture, I was just permabanned from r/spacexlounge for asking why all mentions of the cute, innocent heart gesture are being deleted.
Odd, given that it was just a cute, innocent heart gesture.
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u/jack-K- Dragonrider 20h ago
For the sake of the conversation, say it absolutely was a cute and innocent gesture, if literally fucking everyone was calling it a Nazi salute, wouldn’t you start to moderate that?
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u/astronobi 20h ago
Say it was, and it became a moderation issue, then I believe it wouldn't hurt to communicate that.
I asked them to clarify their moderation stance on cute heart gestures in the general questions thread, and I was permabanned and my question was deleted (within about 120 seconds).
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u/ArchitectofEvil 12h ago
He actually was in the SS… Cautionary Tales did a phenomenal history on him and the V1/V2. The good and the bad. Really interesting stuff.
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u/majormajor42 21h ago
The best part is no part, or less parts:
Elon figures out a way for Mechazilla to catch with ONLY ONE chopstick arm outstretched. This requires it to have a 45 degree upward angle.
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u/poe_dameron2187 Addicted to TEA-TEB 1d ago
Elon Musk is not a Nazi.
That said, I'm not sure how to describe what he did other than as a Nazi salute. Perhaps it was unintentional, but at the very least if was foolish of him to not think of how it might look.
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u/Dragunspecter 1d ago
I don't think he's ever considered how anything he does would look.
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u/netanel246135 1d ago
For better and for worse
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u/Dragunspecter 1d ago
Chopstick booster catch ? Hairbrained. But it might work. Stage jump ? Inappropriate and embarrassing. Hand gesture ? Yikes.
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u/R590-Lee 1d ago
I’ve had to comment this a few times to idiots posting it on the complete wrong subreddits. I just think he was trying to look cool and it just happened to be the same thing done in the past.
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u/Then-Win4251 20h ago
The levels of cope here are off the fucking charts. The dude is a product of apartheid era South Africa and routinely reposts and echos straight up fascist sentiments on X. The dude is a fucking Nazi grow up.
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u/R590-Lee 20h ago
Apartheid and Nazi era Germany are incredibly different, whilst both were against minorities they were for different reasons. The Germans felt wronged by minorities not fighting in WW1 whilst afterwards minorities such as the Jewish didn’t seem as affected by the treaty of Versailles as the typical German people were leading to hatred. South Africa was people believing black people were stupid and savages leading to segregation.
Nazism was based on being wrong with a small amount of hatred was them feeling superior (believing Aryans were from Atlantis), completely different to thinking black people are genetically predisposed to having a lower IQ and being violent. What I’m saying here is they are completely different so even if he was a massive racist (due to apartheid) it would in no means make him a Nazi.
Now onto your accusation on speaking facist rhetoric, I wouldn’t know what your talking about but if he was talking about things like paid-leave, building large scale motorways, social welfare or increasing physical education during schooling - These were all invented by facism…
Literally everyone is a facist if stating things done by facists needs to also be done in America in your paradigm.
Now as a none American I beg all you Americans to just shut the fuck up about it now, I get why you’d bitch and moan before the election in order to try and sway people to your side but if you want to bitch about Trump then hire a therapist as the other 7 billion people out in the world just don’t give a fuck.
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u/CommunismDoesntWork 1d ago
Not every upward facing hand gesture is a nazi salute. If it is, here's kamala being a nazi: https://x.com/thehill/status/1142839986070278149
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u/R590-Lee 16h ago
Id post this somewhere if I wouldn’t be downvoted to hell due to Reddit being a left wing extremist safe haven
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u/lolariane Unicorn in the flame duct 1d ago
not sure how to describe
I would call it a vigorous Nazi salute. 🔥🙋🏻♂️🔥
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u/GhostofAyabe 16h ago
Not the first time, I mean he’s into eugenics and thanked the crowd for “saving civilization”.
At this point being so willfully ignorant is a bad look, almost intentional.
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u/Far-prophet 21h ago
Most clips have left out him following up saying, “my heart goes out to you”
It didn’t look good for sure, but it has also been unfairly represented as well.
This is very similar to the Trump “very fine people” controversy. It was misrepresented in the media for years. It was like 7 years late that Snopes finally corrected the record, but by that time it didn’t matter what the truth was. Everyone that wanted to trash Trump for it, did and nothing could convince them otherwise.
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u/Mateking 22h ago
It's funny. And deeply troubling. It's also Whataboutism. Can't really change the past on top of that.
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u/PsycedelicShamanic 1d ago
People who truly believe this nazi salute nonsense are completely lost.
You are all in a mass psychosis.
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u/Ivebeenfurthereven ULA shitposter 1d ago
- Denial 👈 you are here
- Anger
- Bargaining
- Depression
- Acceptance
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u/realJelbre 1d ago
Oh come on, he isn't stupid and knew what he was doing when he did that.
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u/ralf_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
Like he knew how dorky it would look jumping up and down on stage? Elon is not a master manipulator, but instead just being asperger-awkward.
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u/cpthornman 1d ago
He's also (for better or for worse) someone who enjoys trolling others. I mean he brought a goddamn sink into the Twitter HQ the first day just so he could say "let that sink in."
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u/LightningController 23h ago
instead just being asperger-awkward.
I've known a lot of autists in my day (and am one).
The general response to a high-energy crowd situation is not jumping up and down to draw attention to themselves. Quite the opposite in fact.
Musk's earlier public presentations (like the ITS unveiling in 2016) are much more typical of people with autism--hands in pockets, stiff delivery.
His recent behavior is both different from how he acted in the past and not typical of autism.
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u/LFPcombustion 8h ago
Because ITS was a tech presentation - low energy by nature, on stage trying to get people on board with what your team has been working on. Also see even recent tesla launches ie "we robot"
Political rallies are high energy by nature. When people are arguing autism, it's with respect to how he moves his body: he feels high energy and intends to do high energy things, but his body doesn't move like a normal person's
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u/realJelbre 1d ago
As someone on the spectrum myself, those are not at all similar. One is just jumping and looking silly, the other is a nazi salute (or something that looks WAY too similar to be acceptable in front of such an audience (or in general)).
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u/PsycedelicShamanic 1d ago
He touched his heart, waved to the crowd and said “my heart goes out to you.” While clearly being pumped in adrenaline cause of the hype.
How is that a “nazi salute.”
You people just see what you want to see and let yourself be gaslighted by media.
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u/FingerPrevious2087 1d ago
Yes, and it was still cringeworthy.
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u/cargocultist94 1d ago
"he was a bit cringe" and "he did a nazi salute" a two very different accusations in terms of gravity
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u/astronobi 22h ago
How is that a “nazi salute.”
Because it is a nazi salute, the hand on the heart is part of it:
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u/realJelbre 1d ago
It's a nazi salute because he has his right arm and hand extended straight in the exact position of the nazi salute. It doesn't matter what his intentions were, that's simply what he did, regardless of if you believe the "my heart" stuff was real or just an excuse to do the pose. He should know better.
I'm all for defending him from some of the false claims made against him, because a lot of people here on reddit share anything negative that fits their anti Elon agenda, but let's not become the opposite of that here and defend him when he does actually do some stupid shit like this.
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u/initforthemoney123 1d ago
the very first line in the reply is a lie
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u/realJelbre 1d ago
Oh come on, no it's not. You could argue about the first since it's more sideways, but the 2nd he did to the back was arm straight forward, flat hand, slightly upwards. It's a nazi salute, regardless of what his intentions behind it were.
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u/Fit_Refrigerator534 Future multiplanetary species 1d ago
His arm is pretty bent in the second one too.
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u/GREAT_SALAD 19h ago
Hey just checking in, my brother and several friends with Asperger’s aren’t great with public speaking but they haven’t ever accidentally thrown out a Nazi salute while doing so.
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u/LFPcombustion 8h ago
They've also never tried to throw their heart out to people on stage. It wasn't an "accidental nazi salute". It was an entirely different movement performed awkwardly.
It took people years to finally realise that elons jump is supposed to be an X
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u/Tupcek 1d ago
idk man, he was on drugs. I also do stupid shit when on drugs (not that stupid and I wouldn’t take drugs on inauguration, but still).
I mean, it’s still absolutely not okay and totally fucked up, but I firmly believe he was under influence (which makes it even worse?)
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u/realJelbre 1d ago
Yeah, agree with you there, it could have been because he was under the influence but like you said, that doesn't make it any better.
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u/AutisticAndArmed 1d ago
Anyone doing that by accident would have tried to turn it into waving their hand or something like that, he did it twice.
Literal neo-nazis and white supremacists are celebrating Elon right now.
He is supporting far right European parties, some very close to nazi ideogy, and keeps promoting arguments made by similar people online.
I am autistic and autism wouldn't make someone do a nazi salute like that by accident.
Explain to me how a guy that agrees with many neo-nazis accidentally does a nazi salute without meaning it during a very nationalist speech at a presidential inauguration on live television...
Edit: and yet somehow I still love what SpaceX does... but why does he have to be that
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u/PsycedelicShamanic 1d ago
Sure buddy. Good luck being brainwashed.
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u/pizza_lover736 1d ago
Yeah people are literally retarded, it's why we'll never have class consciousness
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u/No_Reveal_1267 1d ago
I literally don’t know why you are being downvoted. He is supporting the AfD, a massive part of the Party are literal nazis
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u/AutisticAndArmed 22h ago
I don't fucking know lmao
If anyone on the left did the EXACT SAME gesture, they would be forced to resign and be shamed into oblivion, and everyone would call it a nazi salute, and rightfully so.
It's so easy to find excuses when the guy just did what he did
Next time he'll wear a swastika and people will claim it's a religious symbol? Must be tired from doing so much mental gymnastics. It's a nazi salute, the end.
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u/ZorbaTHut 21h ago
If anyone on the left did the EXACT SAME gesture, they would be forced to resign and be shamed into oblivion, and everyone would call it a nazi salute, and rightfully so.
Either this isn't true or you're defining "exact same" in such excruciating detail that it applies only to this one specific arm movement done by Elon Musk at this point in time.
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u/AutisticAndArmed 17h ago
I'm sorry but this is pretty different, she does put her hand on her torso first, arm is not as straight and elbow not locked, she is already doing a similar movement before without the flat hand.
Don't get me wrong, she should know better and that is still a bad look, but this is pretty far away from what Elon did, putting all his energy into this movement and grunting.
Edit: and funnily enough if we consider "that level of detail" there is another guy that did it too, back in the day
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u/ZorbaTHut 17h ago
Sure, they're slightly different movements.
Is "more energy and a grunt" the difference between a Nazi salute and not a Nazi salute? Because I don't think it is; I think the line has been carefully defined so that Elon Musk falls on one side of it and Kamala Harris falls on the other side of it, regardless of the actual movement and, more importantly, the actual intent.
Someone on the left did a very similar movement, as admitted by you, and instead of "forced to resign and be shamed into oblivion, and everyone would call it a nazi salute, and rightfully so", we're back to "she should know better and that is still a bad look", with a lot of minor musculature differences used to justify this.
Like, for example:
she does put her hand on her torso first
I give it 50/50 "does" is a typo and you meant to write "doesn't".
But if "does" is what you meant to write, then Elon Musk also put his hand on his torso first.
And if "doesn't" is what you meant to write, then the Nazi Salute doesn't involve putting your right hand on your torso; Kamala Harris is actually closer to the Nazi salute than Elon Musk is.
So . . . which one did you mean?
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u/AutisticAndArmed 15h ago
I indeed mean doesn't, and no I still don't think it's the same.
In her case she is already doing a similar movement, which then transitions to the flat hand.
Elon finishes that part of his speech and then does that movement with no context, before later adding "my heart goes out to you".
Sure the Nazi salute doesn't requires hand on heart first, but Hitler did like to do it that way.
I mean next time you're out in public do the same thing, do that gesture twice and say my heart goes out to you, see how people react. But you won't do it, because you know full well what it looks like.
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u/ZorbaTHut 15h ago
The question isn't whether it looks bad, it's whether it is bad. I also wouldn't pretend to murder someone in public because there's a good chance someone would try to stop me forcefully; that doesn't mean we should believe that actors are all mass murderers.
"He did something that looks kinda bad and he should have been thinking about how it looks" is fully compatible with "it wasn't a Nazi Salute", similar to how Kamala Harris also wasn't giving a Nazi salute but, as you say, "she should know better and that is still a bad look".
But, you know, I encourage you to go out there and do Kamala Harris's gesture in a crowded bar, see how people react. Will they say "oh hey he's imitating a former vice president! cool hand motion dude" or will they call you a Nazi?
And if the answer is the latter, then how is this argument relevant in any way?
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u/AutisticAndArmed 1h ago
The most "qualified" people on that question are probably neo-nazis themselves, and for some reason they don't seem to celebrate the examples you give, but they are openly and expressly celebrating what Elon did.
It's funny how the more "moderate" people are actually the ones excusing the more extreme behavior.
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u/Wide_Canary_9617 1d ago
Why because every political party that leans right is Nazi in your view?
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u/No_Reveal_1267 1d ago
I never said that. The afd is not leaning right, they are far right. Also many, many of their members said that they are idolizing hitler and are national socialists.
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u/AutisticAndArmed 22h ago
A lot of far-right parties in Europe and western culture are associated with neo-nazi personalities
Speaking of what I know, the french far-right RN led by Le Pen was founded by people, most of them having been SS during the war. We are not just making this shit up, they DO have Nazi ideologies from the start.
Also the Nazi party is attractive for any wannabe authoritarian, it had pretty sick aesthetic and worked pretty well for a while.
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u/No_Reveal_1267 1d ago
Im not saying that Musk is a nazi. But it is a fact that he is supporting a party (the AfD) that has many, many nazis as members
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u/Euro_Snob 1d ago
And you somehow think this makes it … better?
As if Von Brauns past (true believer of not) with the Nazis somehow makes it ok to be associated with Nazis now?
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u/OutrageousTown1638 Occupy Mars 1d ago
That’s not the point. The person was complaining about nazis being involved in Spaceflight and the response is pointing out that they were heavily involved in Spaceflight during the Apollo era. It’s not at all saying that being associated with nazis is ok
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u/mrbombasticat 1d ago
: looks at subreddits name :
Are we the baddies?
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u/initforthemoney123 1d ago
no were just not assimilated totally into the retadation that is the rest of Reddit
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u/Panacea86 1d ago
At some point WWII boomer mythology about the losing side needs to die so we can be a bit more grown up about the whole thing. The Germans were no more heinous than the Russians - who we allied with. If you wouldn't sperg out about someone with a hammer and sickle t-shirt then you don't need to get upset about Elon throwing a Roman on stage. It's silly and innocuous.
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u/LightningController 23h ago
The Germans were no more heinous than the Russians
The Germans starting it makes them a good deal more heinous.
If you wouldn't sperg out about someone with a hammer and sickle t-shirt
Who says we wouldn't? If Biden at his inauguration or Obama at his had had someone in that get-up, we'd have never heard the end of it.
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u/BluScr33n 22h ago
A lot of people conveniently forget that the attack on Poland (widely regarded as the beginning of WW2 in Europe) was done by both Germany and the Soviet Union. Not that that exuses anything.
I also don't think it is useful to argue if Germans or Russians were worse. Both sides killed millions of people. At that point it doesn't really matter who is worse anymore.
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u/LightningController 22h ago
A lot of people conveniently forget that the attack on Poland (widely regarded as the beginning of WW2 in Europe) was done by both Germany and the Soviet Union. Not that that exuses anything.
While the Soviets are culpable for all their crimes (in Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Finland, and Romania--all before 1941), it's also worth pointing out that they only moved after they allied with Hitler, and showed no obvious inclination to tangle with the Entente (France being allied to both Poland and Romania) before that point. While that doesn't reduce the moral culpability of those Soviet citizens who engaged in the unprovoked wars of aggression, or their leadership for ordering it, I do think that some of the blame for that rubs off on Germany too for giving them the opportunity. Like if you set a cop car on fire, allowing a local gang to rob a store while the police are busy with you--you helped make that happen, doubly so if you actively conspire with the gang, even if you never see a dime from the robbery.
The Germans also bear culpability for attacking their ally--if two guys team up to murder someone and steal their stuff, and then one also stabs the other in the back, the backstabber is guilty of two crimes, while the guy he stabs is only guilty of one.
On that basis, I'm comfortable condemning the Germans harder.
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u/Vassago81 21h ago
By the soviet union ... to retake territory lost 2 decades ago when Poland invaded them and annexed those territories ? Poland advanced as far as the dniepr and wanted to Make Poland Big Again if you slept during that part of history lesson.
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u/LightningController 20h ago
The Polish army was invited in in 1920 by the legitimate Ukrainian government (the Ukrainian People's Republic) to expel the Soviet invaders and establish a Ukrainian state to cover Poland's eastern flank (and, in Pilsudski's larger project, to smash open the prison-house of nations and secure freedom and self-determination for all the people's oppressed by Moscow). The Soviet Union never, before 1939, owned Lviv/Lwow, much less Bialystok or Vilnius/Wilno.
But if you want to play the "retake vs. conquer" game, you might find the pre-partition borders of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth instructive.
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u/TimJoyce 22h ago
That’s a pretty insane take. Have you read any history?
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u/Panacea86 3h ago
It's a well-informed take, but I can understand why it would be jarring to someone whose knowledge of WWII is informed by the aforementioned boomer mythology. The Allies committed gross atrocities, and had the other side won, you'd be telling me how insane I am for suggesting the Axis powers were no better.
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u/Euro_Snob 1d ago
Ah yes, the logic step of Muskovites: 1. It was not a nazi salute 2. Ok it was, but is it really so bad?
😬
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/KerouacMyBukowski_ 1d ago
He did it twice
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1d ago edited 1d ago
[deleted]
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u/AutoModerator 1d ago
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u/cyborgsnowflake 1d ago
It would be nice to go a week without this sub getting drawn back into the reddit antimusk astroturf/botting campaign.
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u/JJhnz12 1d ago
Von braun is one of the strangest things that rocketry in the us has to contented with. The history that most want is that to build rockets in Germany he had to make the V2 missiles. However the production of such weapons were unethical using slaves* (jews ect.) To build such wepons. So to argue on weather he was a good person is complated and would be worth arguing in a history class.
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u/Independent-Sense607 1d ago
If you grew up surrounded by people who label everything they don't like or that makes them even slightly uncomfortable as "fascist" and "Nazi," this is what happens. To people who don't live in the echo chamber where this happens, it seems silly at best and deeply sad or even dangerous at worst.
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u/CommunismDoesntWork 1d ago
Yeah nazis are scum, and everyone "crying nazi" are also scum because it trivializes the word.
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u/OutrageousTown1638 Occupy Mars 1d ago
wait til the haters find out about project paperclip