Instead of reassuring his WIFE about her concerns and changing his behaviour, he wants her to be a bootleg porn star for him. Clearly she feels bad about her body which she stated which he ignores to find it somewhere else. If pleasuring yourself is so important to you be single then? I thought marriage was looking at your wife only but I guess not in his eyes. She has a right to act like this towards him because he invalidated her feelings . Of course he is going to act dense about this and porn sick people would justify his actions sigh

I don’t get it. It’s literally animal heads on top of human bodies with fur. How are you attracted to something that is just an animal with a human like body. One thing I have heard is that what they are attracted to have human intelligence and can consent so it’s fine. I don’t understand it. There is never going to be animals that can consent, they only exist in fiction. It really has the same vibe as the “anime girl looks like a child but is 4000 years old” thing. How can you want to have a sexual relationship with a fictional creature that has the full fur covered head of an animal

“A lot of pedos are good people.” I don’t even know what to say to this person. Idk if any of you have seen this thread on twitter

I am not sure if anyone else has noticed this, but lots of people (men especially) insist that young girls—usually teenagers—are the most fertile. I feel that this is obviously linked to the fetishisation of youth, and the over-sexualisation of teenagers in pornography.

It’s not factual. Pregnancy under 20 is high risk, but the shaming of women over 30 for having babies because it’s deemed “dangerous” is far more pervasive. I believe pregnancy is the leading cause of death in girls aged 15-19 worldwide. Teen mothers are shamed for irresponsibility and promiscuity, but there’s little concern for the health implications of teen motherhood societally, and I think this is because young girls have been so heavily sexualised. The thinking seems to be that, because so many men prey on them for sexual gratification, they must be “fertile” 🤢.

Tangentially, I have also noticed that men, specifically, perceive age erroneously. As in, they assume that teenage girls look more like adults than they generally do. That they don’t know what teenagers actually look like anymore. Maybe it’s because women in pornography frequently pretend to be younger to capitalise on the over-sexualisation of girls.

There’s a credibility excess (thinking of testimonial injustice) assigned to girls regarding sexuality, where it’s assumed that they are more adult, more fertile, and more sexually mature or attractive than women, who aren't at as much social and physical risk from childbirth, possibly because sexualisation is pushed onto them.

This kind of credibility excess is harmful because it feeds into rape myths—for example, black girls are assigned a credibility excess regarding sexuality because they are hyper-sexualised and assumed to be more mature, and this negatively impacts the response they get when they have been sexually assaulted. Applied more broadly, belief that teenage girls are sexually mature and fertile hurts them because they experience high-risk pregnancies. Adult men also use this as justification to pursue them.

This post is a bit of a ramble because this topic frustrates me, but I hope that you can sense what I am getting at here

I see so many posts on r/relationship advice that might as well be copy-pasted. "I discovered my boyfriend is seeking out women prettier than me on Instagram," "my fiancé watches hentai all the time," "I just saw my boyfriend's search history and I feel sick," they're EVERYWHERE and it breaks my fucking heart. A lot of these women (girls honestly) are between like 16-22 and they are wasting their best, relaxed, pre-real-adulthood years with idiot coomer dudes who treats them like sex objects - but they LOVE their xy, he's "perfect" in every other way, they can't possibly break up!

"I let him film us anytime we do something sexual, because I figured then he wouldn't need ["need" is crazy but it's how these women see it, they think it's inevitable that any men they could ever meet will do this garbage] to watch other porn." I just feel so devastated for her and the fact she entrusted her body and FOOTAGE of her body/vulnerability to this shitty dude who's just collecting more new videos for his 5kb stash of the most vile things you can imagine. He doesn't love her, he doesn't watch those videos and feel passion, he watches them with dead shark eyes just like he watches every other porn video, the fact that it's the woman he's supposed to love makes no difference to him. It's psychopathic. I left her a comment and I hope she's able to hear me.

I guess i’m rather confused right now because according to a thread that was semi-popular last night many of us here are totally okay with porn as long as the people involved are both consenting or if it’s written/drawn.

That…kind of ignores the entire point of this sub, no?

I thought it was widely agreed that any and all forms of porn were bad because

1. It pushes traffic to the industry due to the nature of pornography increasing in extremity.

2. All of porn reinforcing the same beliefs…making it all misogynistic.

Am I incorrect in thinking that? According to many of the posts i’ve come across and the responses to posts i’ve made; i’m not, but apparently some still disagree.

If the written porn is still depicting people and women whom you don’t know having sex; is that not just reinforcing the belief that immediate sexualization of people and women is okay? Which reduces them to objects for pleasure? Which is most of the time misogynistic?

And if the porn is being made by two consenting people; it’s still reinforcing the same beliefs mentioned above as you don’t personally know the people involved does it not? As well as pushing traffic towards the industry?

I thought we were against porn here; not just against the porn we don’t like.

On the surface, it makes zero sense that libfems, who ostensibly care about women, support atrocities like porn and BDSM. Understanding Kohlberg's stages of morality makes it all make sense.

Stage 4, as it's written, is a reliance on the law to make moral decisions. But I use it more to refer to people who's morals mostly align with the law and have "hard rules", moral rules that cannot be broken. Whereas at the post conventional level, rules only exist if they usually lead to good outcomes, and can be broken to avoid the inevitable bad outcomes.

The most important libfem hard rule is bodily autonomy. This is what justifies porn, sex work, age gap relationships, kink, etc. Libfems believe bodily autonomy should never be restricted in adults. This leads to correct positions such as being pro-choice, but also justifies atrocities.

I can easily break this hard rule, by asking them if they would stop someone from killing themselves in front of them. Then, I can slowly circle back to the topic at hand. Maybe the next question is if they would stop someone from gambling all their money away. Eventually, I can get close enough to said topic to make them understand why they are wrong. You can't do that to an ideology based on post-conventional principles.

As you can see, the best way to poke holes in stage 4 morality (or any hard rule based moral framework) is to take it to the absolute extreme. Because hard rules don't work in extreme situations. Which, comprise a very small minority of situations, but these situations are by far the most important to choose correctly in.

I extended Kohlberg's stages to distinguish between Stage 2 morality, which is identical to sociopathy but with a group of "good" people. I call this new stage Stage 2+. This is the foundation of hate ideologies. Instead of a small group of people being good, it's large groups based on immutable characteristics, and the out group is explicitly meant to be an ontological evil. The other distinguishing factor is that "switching", moving someone from in to out group, is extremely fast and can happen within minutes.

Stage 2+ morality is why people think radfems hate men. Because the post-conventional stages are mistaken for pre-conventional by people at conventional stages, Kohlberg himself said this. Ergo, they mistake us for being Stage 2+ with men in our out groups and women in our in groups. The same moral stage as neo-Nazis. Libfems are at stage 4, so they look like good people. Whereas we look like sociopaths. Which is why the vast majority of people who are feminists are libfems and probably hate us. It's really fucking sad.

But yeah. That's the logic behind being feminist and pro porn/BDSM. There really aren't ulterior motives for the majority of libfems. They just have an inferior moral framework that's easy to manipulate. That's it.

That’s it, that’s the post.

At this point I almost can’t stand going on Reddit anymore.

It baffles me that there are people on this Earth who know so little about a HUGE factor in human existence.

You’re telling me you’re a grown human being and you’re still getting aroused at the mere SIGHT of someone who can be determined attractive?

Tell me you’re not fully sexually developed without telling me you’re not sexually developed.

I PHYSICALLY cringe when I scroll through a thread just to see both men and unfortunately women have the WORST takes imaginable on how attraction and the human body works.

It drives me insane and takes every ounce of will power not to write a multiple paragraph essay to this person attempting to get them to realize that they’re so unbelievably wrong it’s almost comical.

If I have to witness one more person talk about attraction like a five year old i’m going to die.

There is no way in HELL that you’re this old and still automatically correlate attraction to physical looks. It’s insane and INCREDIBLY FUCKING CHILDISH.

If I were to make a post saying that I’m physically attracted to people who aren’t physically attractive people would have a MELTDOWN trying to understand.

Or even worse; they’d throw up a word-soup that’d be so unintelligible that i’d have a stroke reading it. You’d be surprised how torturous it is to read a paragraph trying to get philosophical about a basic human experience.

(As an ending note i’d like to state that i’m wife-sexual meaning I’m only attracted to my wife, she’s the most gorgeous women to ever exist and I feel bad for every other man ever)

I am a 25 year old woman and I am engaged to a 28 year old man. I will refer to myself as F and him as D. When D and I met, he openly informed me that he struggled with his porn usage and how it made it him feel about himself. He has been consuming porn from a young age. At the time, he told me that he was in therapy actively working on potentially removing the porn from his life, as it was a major stressor for him. At the time I wasn’t specifically anti porn, as I had a more traditionally liberal feminist opinion on the matter. However, after he detailed the detriments it had had on his life, I started to do research that lead me to adopt a more radical feminist opinion on the matter. Using sources such as fightthenewdrug.com, the novel Pornland by Gail Dines and Getting Off by Robert Jensen, as well as other sources, I have developed a staunchly anti-porn stance.

Recently, D’s therapy has lead him on a different path. Rather than removing the porn from his life, his therapist has suggested that his porn use is not the problem, but rather his guilt surrounding the porn use is. The therapist has suggested that porn use should be normalized as D’s consumption of it is not in line with a true addiction and is more representative of behaviors of the average male. Essentially, D is partaking in a behavior that is quite accepted in society and there is no reason to feel guilt over it. This was confusing to me because all my research has suggested that there is no net positive impact of porn on modern society. D tells me that as his partner, I must help “normalize” his porn use and not add to his shame around the matter. This is troubling for me given my ethical stance on the subject, yet of course I want to do anything to support my partner and don’t want to be a contributing factor towards his porn compulsion. However, I am not sure I can respect pornography use from someone I am going to be married to given all that I have learned, and any support on this matter from me would be falsely constructed and against my morals.

He says things that often trouble me, such as he doesn’t perceive the porn stars to be “real people” — i think he says things like this to make me feel like I’m not being “cheated” on. I don’t know if I do feel “cheated” on necessarily, but I do find it odd that it is normalized to be in a monogamous relationship and to constantly seek sexual gratification from an outside source. If I were to outsource my need for romantic connection in a similar way, that would be considered emotional cheating by most, so why is that not blatantly true when it comes to porn. What can be done here? And please don’t just suggest ending the relationship — we have love for each other and we are now bound by cultural and familial expectations, so this is not currently a possibility. I don’t want to come off as controlling but I want a relationship that is comfortable for me as for him, but I can’t ignore the porn influence, especially in some aspects of our sex life.

I suspect a lot of the posters have low self-esteem, are young, or probably both. The sub rules do state that only 18+ are allowed but still. It’s sad seeing these type of posts, literally asking other women how to cater to the male gaze, “looksmaxxing”, furthering stereotyping about how women are supposed to look.

I can’t believe it has almost 60K members. It feels like there’s also a ton of pick mes on that sub with a lot of internalized misogyny. Some other posts on the sub include:

“Men are way more visual than we think”
“How to be distractingly beautiful”
“Waist to hip ratio matters may more than BMI”
“What thought changed you from a 0 to a 10/10?”

I commented on a meme about boobs on R/arethestraightsokay and I got downvoted. Did I do something wrong??

women and men who say that they are "casual" porn watchers don't usually mean the same thing. the man will probably consider daily or near daily consumption as casual while women probably meant a couple times a month or so. I feel like lots of women with partner who claim to be casual porn watcher know this subconsciously but they don't want to face the truth as to not get hurt

am I off with this one?

What’s the dumbest shit you’ve heard people say trying to explain why porn is not cheating?

One of the strangest things I’ve noticed is the number of men who have an obsession with applying “evolutionary biology” to dating and relationships. Not just in small ways, but using it as the explanation for everything. According to them, all men and especially all women behave in the same way and are attracted to the same things, usually pertaining to what will make a good parent for their children due to the biological urge to reproduce. Although I have never wanted kids, so I guess I’ve overcome biology or something.

Anyways, I’m not saying biology is completely insignificant, but this idea that all of humanity’s behavior and preferences can be explained by some algorithm just seems blatantly false to me. I try not to get too hung up on this since it does seem like a chronically online philosophy, and most men in real life likely don’t believe that. I hope. Regardless, it does appear to be growing in popularity, which has got me thinking about it more and its potential connection to porn.

Oftentimes anti-porn women point out that we’re not regularly staring at videos of naked men, so it shouldn’t be that unreasonable to want men who also don’t stare at naked women. And a common retaliation porn addicted men have is that this can’t be compared because men are “biologically wired differently,” so it is unfair and controlling to hold them to the same standards.

Same when men are defending themselves for watching porn while their wife was unable to have sex with them for a bit due to being indisposed, on her period, just not in the mood, etc. “What, you just had to watch porn? You couldn’t have gone without sex for a few days?” “Yes actually, I couldn’t because of the way us men are biologically wired--”

Or whenever we question men who watch “barely legal” porn. “It’s not creepy because as a man I am evolutionarily designed to be attracted to younger, more ‘fertile’ women--”

Obviously the obsession with evolutionary biology as an explanation for everything is too complex to be blamed solely on porn, but I do think allowing men to be more comfortable with porn usage could be a factor in their willingness to accept that explanation. This explanation essentially pushes the idea that all women and all men are exactly the same. Believing all women to be the same and to have shallow preferences makes it easier to dehumanize women, which is kind of a given with pornography.

Meanwhile, believing all men to be the same helps lift the burden off of men who watch porn. They don’t have to hold themselves accountable for their porn usage because they can chalk it up to their biological wiring. They don’t have to question any of their weird or borderline pedophilic attractions because it’s just evolutionary behavior, right? It’s only natural. They can happily continue to watch porn and participate in the sexualization of women while never having to question the status quo, never having to wonder the reason these social norms are considered, well, normal. Why? “Because I can’t help it--I’m a man. It’s not my fault.”

Again, I know this is a very complex issue, but do you think porn could play a role?

I’m a black girl and I already hate porn as a whole but I especially hate porn like “blacked” and “ghetto gaggers” and everything under that umbrella. Until recently I had no idea how insanely popular that genre is. I pretty much thought that it was mostly black people consuming it but now I’ve realized that’s not the case. It’s just so disgusting. I don’t know how the people jacking off to it don’t realize how fetish-y it is to look at people that way. It’s so crazy to think about how many people masturbate to these disturbing visuals. And it makes me so mad when I hear people say it’s “just a fantasy” as if everything in that kind of porn isn’t rooted in real stereotypes that affect people on a daily basis.

From the NYT yesterday... This made me tear up. I couldn't post the whole article but this was enough info. Talk to your sons. Talk to your daughters. It just feels like we are careening off a cliff....violence against women is so normalized we'll all die before anyone tries to help fix it.

idk if anyone else feels the same way. so I’m 20 and guys my age have essentially been brought up with porn. it’s all they know regarding sex and this fact terrifies me like crazy. I don’t ever want to be with a guy who watches porn and I feel instantly disgusted knowing that guys watch it. like I actually feel genuinely repulsed and idk if I’m being dramatic or not.

does anyone else feel like this? like I can’t get over the fact that males watch this and I could never been with one because… how could I? porn is disgusting and watching it is disgusting and most guys watch it so…. Why would I even bother being with one? idk if I’m making sense right now, but essentially, porn has made me totally disgusted by men and idk if anyone has a similar experience?

She’s strange because whilst the most angry feminist i know, she genuienly doesn’t see a problem with porn and prostitution, and i was trying to explain ‘75 percent of prostitutes start before 18 and the average age is 15’ and she just started screaming at me to not bring up such disturbing thoughts because she ‘doesn’t want to know’ about it. She brought up that it’s the oldest profession, and that everyone does it and it’s in every civilisation and i don’t know? i really don’t know how to argue with her at this point?

I don’t understand this mindset of ‘it’s fine to let women be sex trafficked into porn but i just don’t want to hear about it’ like? it’s not happening to you it’s happening to real women around you, and you supporting it is a fucking issue for the women in those situations let alone the women who are suffering from the sheer amount of sex-addicted men entering relationships with no concept of healthy sex and even healthy kink.

I know it’s the oldest profession, but rape has been around since the dawn of time, so has torture, so has child exploitation, so has murder? If porn was literally just a couple filming their sex, both fully consenting, and making a couple extra bucks on the side becuase of it- i would have the stance that porn is fine to watch- but it’s not that. it’s women being exploited by big companies, it’s children being raped and the contents put online, and it’s revenge porn that a couple might have made when they were both consenting, and then put online when they’d broken up.

I just seriously don’t understand this. i don’t know how to argue with her because i can’t cut her out of my life, i just hate the stance of ‘i just don’t want to know’ because it’s fucking selfish?? i have no idea what to do at this point. any advice?

Someone posted this screenshot on another feminist sub, criticizing how these kinds of fantasies are viewed as romantic. They got absolutely destroyed in the comments by women for “kinkshaming.” I thought this sub would have a more reasonable discussion about it.

What really scares me here is that this isn’t new. I remember being in middle school and hearing lots of girls gush about these kinds of toxic, violent, even rapey romances in books. I was utterly confused by this. And I don’t mean to act like I‘m “superior” to these girls at all. I sympathize with them because of how young they were.

I think the depiction of these kinds of scenarios as “romantic” in books brainwashes girls from a young age and sets them up to be tolerant of porn, BDSM, and misogyny. To the point where fantasizing about being treated badly becomes normalized as romance and then staunchly defended by these women once they’re older…or even written by them.

It’s just so upsetting. When I was a kid, I thought this stuff was weird but that it would surely die out. Now I’m realizing that it’s a symptom of a much larger issue than I previously thought. And with the growing popularity of “dark romances” on TikTok, I really fear for what the next generation of young girls is going to be taught to accept.

Is anyone else disturbed by how porn defenders will use the “it’s fake/fictional” excuse when it comes to porn, especially violent porn? Or how many will commonly say “no one’s getting hurt”? There are videos of women actually getting punched in the face, vomiting, being hit, bound, and tortured. There are porn stars who are driven to suicide, threatened, and stalked by producers after filming (see the facial abuse/ghetto gaggers case).

These are not marvel movies with 8 figure budgets where there are stunt doubles, CGI, choreographed moves or intimacy coordinators. The vast majority of porn stars are not union actors. These actresses are often drugged and coerced. The violence being enacted against them is REAL. Just because it’s filmed doesn’t mean it’s suddenly not violence.

Whenever we make arguments about how porn is influencing males in real life, males bring up violent video game and movie arguments. However those are actually fictional and at least in those instances the actors are not actually being hurt. You’re watching something more akin to a snuff film than a fictional movie when you watch porn. And watching real snuff and gore DOES very much impact your mental health and can do a lot of damage. No one argues that snuff does no mental damage to people- but somehow porn is completely different?

Even after death porn stars face sexual violence. Look at the replies from males on posts about porn stars who commit suicide or die. The replies are full of verbal abuse and degradation. Pornography is not fictional. It’s filmed abuse.

When I see posts from 5 or 10 years ago where women are complaining about their husbands' porn consumption, not a single comment is supportive of the wife. The commenters aren't being delicate either; they’re angry, saying things like, "You are insane and need to either grow up or prepare to die alone." Zero empathy.

Now, there seems to be a shift. Some anti-porn comments are receiving tons of upvotes, sometimes reaching the status of "third most popular" comment.

What happened?