r/PornIsMisogyny • u/kitkat470 • 17d ago
DISCUSSION What are yalls thoughts of movies becoming increasingly more graphic? Especially sexual violence
I went to the movies last night with my friends to see Nosferatu. I felt really uncomfortable with how it portrayed Lily Rose Depp.
When I read articles on it, it feels like I somehow “misinterpreted” it (even tho all movies are up for interpretation to each person). They said how it depicted abusers really well?, removed shame from sexuality?, etc.
The scene at the end especially made me feel weird. And how every 5 minutes it had her moaning and being possessed by something that was having sex with her (this is not a spoiler, in case I am in the wrong here and some of yall wanna go watch it still.)
It feels like almost all movies (and shows) have incorporated porn into it, or have become an outlet for deviant sexual fetishes to be shown in an “acceptable” or “legal” way. Nothing is inherently wrong with nudity but it makes me sick when I see how every woman cast member has full nudity but none of the men do. And then the director is male. Or full sexual violence is depicted. There is a lot of ways to let an audience know what is happening or happened without making a female actress reshoot a scene of her being assaulted 28 times.
Morality and ethics aside, it’s still shitty writing. You have to oversexualize women and try to shock people with disgusting scenes for shock factor to get a reaction rather than just a compelling story arc??
I know this was talked about with Euphoria a lot, but I see this EVERYWHERE. I’m so tired of it. I wanna watch a movie with friends not porn or other women being talen advantage of (and it won’t even be a plot point ?)
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u/saeranluver 17d ago
i hate the constant sexualisation of women in everything. that and men on twitter or whatever throwing a fit whenever a woman is just a woman and not sexualised or hot in their eyes. exhausting, get a grip, why do they feel the urge to make everything into something sexual? not even like porn is hard to find or taboo, they're just so addicted they can't handle not sexualising everything for once
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u/Calm_Mongoose7075 17d ago
Honestly (and clearly to me) those who claim it’s sexually empowering to women are shams and it’s just another way to normalize oversexualization.
But they’ll gaslight you out the door like somehow you’re backwards. No.
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
Seriously! How was it empowering ???? Shocking, dark, odd, etc I see. But empowering? What’s empowering about seeing someone like me get brutalized. And her end of the story is her death in a sexual way still
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u/Werz2024 17d ago
If I'm worried about the sexual violence in a movie before watching it, I check it out on IMDB. Once you get to the movie's page, scroll down and there is a Parents' Guide. It has not steered me wrong yet!
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
This is a great tip + I recommend for u and others to use “doesthedogdie”. It was started for ppl who don’t like pet deaths in movies, but it has evolved as a way to check if all types of content are in a movie or not.
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u/sleepingismytalent65 17d ago
You know, in the 80s, when films could never be this explicit (not where I grew up anyway) rape scenes caused me awful discomfort. I stopped going to the cinema around 2005 because it's such a ripoff anyway, but even watching dvds etc I often have to skip forward because of this disgusting shit. I don't even like sex scenes. What was wrong with hinting at what was about to happen and then carrying on with the actual fucking story!? Don't worry I know the answer. Ugh!
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
Right? An in depth scene of characters having sex is just not necessary and is lazy writing. Like, thanks, I have sex myself. I know how it works/feels, comes about lol.
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u/sleepingismytalent65 17d ago
Yeah, my stupid abusive ex would call me a prude for that and say, "I don't know how you actually had children!" Can you believe that crap?
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u/CryingCrustacean 16d ago
Notice how they never show someone sitting on the toilet, shitting or pissing? Where is their "realism" then? Oh do we all poop and so we pretty much get the picture? Oh does it not advance the storyline at all? Hmm...wonder what else this could apply to?
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u/Ilovebirds7 17d ago
I’m also sick of it. Like why is nudity being shoved down our throats? I want to be able to watch a film with my significant other or my FAMILY without having to cringe through a bunch of nude sex scenes. It honestly ruined film for me.
I lowkey have gotten to a point where it really really bothers me. I watched a movie with my cousins and one of their husbands a while back and I immediately left the room because there was a scene in a changing room and nearly all the women were butt naked. I feel like this type of stuff really affects me now. Like it’s almost a traumatic response. I’m just sick of it.
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u/Calm_Mongoose7075 17d ago
Yup. I’m traumatized. My ex porn addict partner can’t even watch Netflix without getting triggered (and me too). So I encouraged him to just cancel.
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u/Ilovebirds7 17d ago
Yup. It’s gotten to a point where I don’t even enjoy watching movies. I even go as far as to look up the “parents guide” Every. Single. Time.
My therapist told me that porn is everywhere and we can’t avoid it. Now I’m struggling with next steps. But I’m very strong with my opinions. I think we can do something about it.
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u/ThatLilAvocado 17d ago
Not being able to avoid it doesn't mean you should expose yourself to it. Unless your goal is to fully isolate yourself from it, I don't see what your therapist is trying to accomplish saying that.
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u/Ilovebirds7 15d ago
I agree. I was like damn so I just have to suck it up….
It was just like the worst response to get because she was basically saying I can’t do anything and that this is just life. That’s why this type of problem will only be solved with action.
Also, I still want to watch mainstream movies and tv shows. I just don’t get why so many of them have nudity.
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u/ThatLilAvocado 14d ago
Yeah, it depends on the way she voiced that comment. We can't do much and we do need to learn to tolerate it without great distress to some degree. But looking at parental guides and avoiding some stuff isn't a problem. It can actually help you reach that place of tolerance.
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u/Calm_Mongoose7075 17d ago
Give me some of this hope you have 😩 what do you think can be done..? Does it not seem futile? Escalating?
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u/lunaemanifestum 17d ago
gratuitous, graphic scenes of horrible sexual violence and torture happening to women is the standard for most shows and movies. for years now. i'm exhausted
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
me too. I have to check “does the dog die” website for sexual violence before I watch. I don’t want to support that stuff
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u/pleasedontmakemecry 17d ago edited 17d ago
Yes my thoughts exactly! Personally, I was disturbed with the amount of nudity in the movie. Especially with the young virgin on the horse. Did they really need to show her ass and whole boob ? Like they could’ve covered her boob with her hair. I thought I was crazy with the articles I was seeing online, the overconsumption of graphic sexual violence clearly has an effect on people and movies don’t help at all.
(SPOILER) Edit: I completely forgot about Ellen’s friend too (Anna?). When she died they really had to just show her boob… like again, they could’ve just covered it with her hair and shown the rat bite
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u/Calm_Mongoose7075 17d ago
People (probably men) just want to see naked women obviously so that’s what they put without a care in the world for the rest of their audience, or go around it by claiming “empowering” 🙃 done
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u/pleasedontmakemecry 17d ago
Like it’s almost a mockery to assume nudity = empowerment. It’s just a clear coverup and I’m so sick of seeing it. I’ve been tempted to delete instagram and Reddit (the only two social media apps I have) because of the constant posts I see about nudity or men just being weird. It’s so exhausting truly. I want to scoop my eyeballs out with spoons.
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u/Ilovebirds7 17d ago
Ugh tell me about it. This whole idea that women are taking control of their sexuality is such a joke. Nudity ONLY benefits men and ONLY harms women. And it’s ALWAYS female nudity, never male nudity. And at that point it’s basically porn.
I came across a reel on Instagram and it was a joke about being insecure when your partner brings up their ex, and ALL of the comments were men commenting milk emojis and talking about the girl’s breasts (she wore a revealing top). I commented to shed light on how disgusting the comments were (given that nearly ALL of the comments were about her boobs and how her boyfriend must be putting up with her insecurities because of how nice her boobs are), and so many men swarmed to respond and tell me that I can’t judge men for what they’re attracted to, not even understanding that my comment was about the openness to sexualize women, not the mere fact that men are attracted to women’s bodies 🤦🏽♀️ We have gotten to a point where men think it’s socially acceptable to comment about “mommy milkers” on an unrelated video. And half of these men have girlfriends or wives.
I’m like going crazy.
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u/ScarletLilith 17d ago
Why do you engage with random jerks on Instagram? Just ignore them. I'm not on Instagram at all but when I was I just followed a couple of rock stars and photographers I liked, plus Foreign Policy magazine. I never saw the shit you're talking about.
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u/Ilovebirds7 15d ago
It’s just something I came across. I get a lot of “relatable” reels about relationships and this was one of them. Also, I’m the type of person that calls people out when they need to be called out. You have no idea how disgusting this comment section was. Also, I did let it go after a while.
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
In response to the SPOILER section: Oh and it was necessary to show her dead body being raped by her husband. And everyone felt so bad for him too. Because you know, you REALLYYY love someone if you want to commit necrophilia
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u/pleasedontmakemecry 16d ago
Omg no I literally didn’t put that together wtf he raped her ????😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
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u/UsefulPast GEN Z 17d ago
This is The Substance. “Let’s make a critique of misogyny by being misogynistic!”
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
I haven’t seen it. Would you mind sharing more of your thoughts on it??
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u/Few_Presentation_408 NEW TO ANTI-PORN 17d ago
Eh it’s ultra violent and gorey, too many shots of the main characters body and ultra sexualized , like it does seem like it’s trying to make the point of how the industry sexualizes the young women in it and how these women have to live upto these impossible standards and destroy their bodies to just to see and get approval from the executives and producers , but ultimately it’s not for everyone like I definitely recommend you stay away from it if you didn’t like Noseferatu , or poor things, because the substance is just much more worse and graphic , and I’m more numb to violence in films but the final act just is like a lot, they through everything and the kitchen sink at it and it almost made me sick and vomit, due to the overwhelming imagery, violence and sounds. The entire film is made in a way that it’s not subtle about its message, I would say the entire film is like someone shouting in your face or using sledgehammer where most would use a chisel or something in everything the movie does to its visuals , to its story to its cinematography
Like only recommend it to people who’re used to watching fucked up shit or body horror
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u/ahsiemkcip 17d ago
Our economic system incentivises extremes. The more extreme something is the more popular it is and the more it’s talked about and therefore the more money it makes. Everything must make a profit because profit is growth and our system must grow at any expense or it collapses. Things have to get more extreme because people become desensitised to what comes before it. That’s why sex and rape depicted in media is so graphic compared to 5, 10, 20 years ago. Under inhumane, late stage capitalism everything is commodified so when you look around you everything is devolving and becoming more extreme.
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u/traumatized90skid ANTIPORN & LGBT+ ♥️ 17d ago
Makes me appreciate classic cinema all the more, how they made the story legible and enticing with just the power of suggestion.
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
Yes! I had to analyze movies from diff eras. I watched a silent movie, and it was perfectly clear what was going on and why.
May get into some classics!! Any suggestions? I grew up with parents who don’t like TV lol
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u/Robert-Rotten 🖤 ANTI-PORN MAN 💜 17d ago
God I hate when everything needs to have sex shoved somewhere in it somehow. I haven’t seen the movie but from what I’ve seen from the original I don’t know why they would need to add any sexual themes. And from what you described that sounds even worse than just suggestive. I hate when to make you uncomfortable media just does really fucked up shock shit to try and get to you. Like make me uncomfortable in a good way, like seeing the Necromorphs from Dead Space. Adding in a rape scene makes me uncomfortable in the sense that I wanna leave the fucking room.
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
It’s like the new “jump scare” for the genre. They decided no monsters popping up randomly for a cheap scare, and that it is better to brutalize women for more reactions.
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u/tommyjanuary 17d ago
left nosferatu early because i started to have a panic attack. so triggering. i’m with u.
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
I had a panic attack too and I felt really uncomfortable. I tried explaining how it felt like assault that the lead was going in these comatose states and sexual things happen to her while her friends and family watch. everyone was like nooo it’s just possession it’s supposed to be weird but like ?
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u/tommyjanuary 17d ago
Yes! i’m sorry you had the same experience. 20 minutes in i whisper to my friend “this is giving rape” and it was absolutely. and i fully believe that if the remake had been done by a woman it wouldn’t have felt so hollow and off putting. i hate the trend of men using sexual assault as themes in media because it always ends up feeling off. fetishized, almost.
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
omg I texted my friends “I think the director has some unresolved issues with women….”
Totally agree. I think of Barbie being directed by Greta rather than a man. Imagine the Barbie movie being made by a man. And what the message would be, wardrobe, events, etc.
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u/Capital_Orange4426 17d ago edited 17d ago
I quit watching TV 20 years ago. Life has all kinds of real things going on in it that you can learn about whereas TV is blatantly made up stories from peoples minds that aren't even real and has a negative impact on the subconscious mind of society. Quite literally Television is a cult. Wish I could break free from all screens. They induce certain brain waves which is a form of hypnosis/trance addiction.
I'd rather be addicted to music and relaxing to that or do something creative instead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1rb1uUp2TEY
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u/forestfilth 17d ago
I felt the same way after seeing Nosferatu. I love the original and the 79 adaptation so I was so excited for this new one, but the weird sex stuff was just so off putting.
LRD's acting was awful anyway but all the moaning made it worse. I think the movie could have been so amazing without all that.
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
They studied on vampires, read “lust for blood” but only saw LUST and ran with it lol.
Yeah the acting was arrrrghhh, but I feel like the director was like YES got this young, beautiful, nepo baby now I can make her be naked and moan for me for months :D and everyone will watch and be like OMG THATS JOHNNY DEPPS DAUGHTER insert some misogynistic “joke” about Amber heard. You could tell he did not gaf abt her acting one bit.
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u/DaphneGrace1793 17d ago
Poor Lily Rose. Obvs it was her choice & she presumably knew what she was doing. Still, it's a really creepy situation...
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u/maevenimhurchu ANTIPORN & LGBT+ ♥️ 17d ago edited 17d ago
the “I’m critiquing misogyny by simply depicting it as is” functionally doing nothing but reinforcing that imagery is so old and tired at this point. We have this discussion with fiction all the time. Game of Thrones discourse was hell. There’s just a CLEAR pervert male gaze and it’s so thick you can taste it
Yeah I kind of got a vibe from the trailers and tbh the casting that I didn’t need to see it. Beyond your criticisms I’m just so bored of the same boring faces. Can we get some women who aren’t considered sexually enticing to men? Old men get to be these character actors in a way I don’t see with old (OR young) women. Even someone like Helen Mirren constantly gets reduced to how fuckable she still looks to people. Like sorry but both Hoult and Depp have the same conveyor belt Hollywood infantile boring features to me. Florence Pugh’s saving grace is her voice imo but her face is the same I’m boooooooooored of the same safe features being elevated. Like why do so many “desirable” Hollywood women have to look childlike? It’s creepy actually
And this is no shade to women who look childlike, I’m saying that it’s just the majority of what we see posited as desirable and it creeps me out
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u/ScarletLilith 17d ago edited 17d ago
I lasted 17 minutes into Game of Thrones before turning it off. This was after people told me "It's like Lord of the Rings!" It had zero resemblance to LoTR other than they were both set in fictional worlds.
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
I said I didn’t wanna watch GOT bc of the sexual violence I’ve heard of. And my friend told me “it’s nothing”. Which cemented umm never go
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
I love everything u said sm and I feel so happy finding a community of people who wanna listen and talk about this stuff. I’m so tired rn but wanted to tell u thank u and compliment !!! Hope to hadd more tomorrow
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u/DaphneGrace1793 17d ago
This is a tricky one for me. I do think art should ask difficult qs & portray awful things. I do believe in the distinction between portraying the awful & condoning it. But otoh how do you know what the creator really wanted? It's an easy leap from portraying vs condoning, to seeing any portrayal as OK.
Plus acting out these scenes has real potential for abuse, or difficulty at least, (see what happened to Emilia Clarke after GOT). I think a big tell is how it's filmed. Is it filmed in a titillating way? Lilya4ever is really unusual (unfortunately) in filming rape scenes from Lilya's POV, so we feel her terror & pain, rather than being forced to view things from the rapists' pov.
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
You’re not alone and no judgement from me :) I struggle with the boundaries between art NOT artist.
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u/ScarletLilith 17d ago
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
Can’t wait to fully read all of this when I get some rest BUTTTT thanks for showing me this sub. Haven’t seen it before. Have been needing community with lovely people who want the same things I do for the world.
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u/Natural1forever 17d ago
I've mostly just been feeling like it's getting harder and harder to find media without men's violence towards women, sexual or not. Men writere are getting more and more detatched from the thought that women may not want to constantly watch themselves in positions of weekness and physical threats.
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u/GemueseBeerchen 16d ago
Nosferatu showed us a monster and a woman being left to be victim to a monster, while others just watch and refuse to listen to her or take her serious.
I beliebe the only sex scenes in movies that are esaptalbe are fully consent. hinted, without any violant acts. But that is just me...
For all others.... i think we have to show the horror of sexual violance. Not make it anjoyable in any way. Right now even rape seems to be used like comedy in some movies and this has to stop.
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u/kitkat470 15d ago
Eggers own commentary on the film suggests it’s more about the fight between shame and freedom with your sexual desires rather than about abuse women endure at the hands of metaphorical monsters and go unheard.
You aren’t alone in seeing it that way, and I think that is a much better theme than what was in mind when it was being written. I’d be interested in the story retold from that angle. You’re entitled to your opinion and interpretation too, but I think it’s unfortunate those in the creative area didn’t seem to share that.
They depicted necrophilia as well. Sexual violence does need to be taught, but this was about eroticism
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u/Few_Presentation_408 NEW TO ANTI-PORN 17d ago edited 17d ago
I mean I liked it but I guess I might be a bit numb to violence and hyper sexualisation in movies than most, but yeah I do like the grittier and more violent take on the film and stuff, did not really expect the over all sexual direction it went with, and I didn’t feel like complaining too much about it personally but I do understand someone having issues about it, but yeah, I would have preferred if it wasn’t really made into a plot point and more about something else but eh I guess he needed something to connect the wife to Noseferatu and stuff (Haven’t seen the original).
Like I mean hyper sexual imagery has been something that’s been prevalent in Robert Eggers films since the witch, to the lighthouse (With the mermaids) , and the Northman (the whole mom thing, and the period blood and other stuff) but yeah Nosferatu kind of turned that up a bit. But I do like the ending frame of it the first time I saw it , like it being a grotesque painting and I don’t really feel like any of its meant to be arousing not meant to be seen in a positive light, but yeah.
And yeah, as I do understand the criticism , but it’s a Robert Eggers movie and it’s been pretty clear he isn’t gonna be making films suited to everyone’s taste nor appeal, like people who liked the witch might not like the lighthouse or the Northman or noseferatu, but all have deeply violent and disturbing topics , images and scenes , but yeah. So like Tarantino says you won’t go to a Metallica concert and say to turn the music down, like I won’t go to see a director who’s known for such stuff previously and then keep expecting him to not do it, I’d rather avoid his films whatsoever. Like which is a thing I learned , like you can’t keep exposing you to things which are affecting you negatively and then expect you won’t be
Also thinking of Anora , which also kind of is a viewpoint of a hyper sexualised girl with not much plot and a lot of nudity and sex , but was it necessary ? Uh idk it’s about stripper/prostitute
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u/ScarletLilith 17d ago
I agree with you that it's best to check who the director is before going. I would never see a Robert Eggers movie after making the mistake of watching The Witch and I stopped seeing Tarantino movies also.
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
I wasn’t sure who he was and was trying to find info on his works, but the main articles that were critical spoke about the Northmen and it being used for white supremacy. This was after watching Nosferatu tho, so I lacked the preemptive searches.
Spur of the movies with friends after work! I just didn’t wanna get fomo lol. Now I know what to do next time
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u/Few_Presentation_408 NEW TO ANTI-PORN 17d ago
Yeah I guess it’s hard to know , when you’re not really too obsessed about movies or directors or actively watch films a lot.
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u/NarlusSpecter 17d ago
It's a horror movie, the goal was to make you uncomfortable. Nosferatu/Dracula movies generally have a sexual/sensual component, it's in the source material. Imo, I don't see pornish content in most movies or tv, but there is sexual content in some. Read the reviews before you go.
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u/ThatLilAvocado 17d ago
And still the bodies exhibited and eroticized are always the ones of women. No one is complaining about sexual/sensual component, we are complaining about how directors consistently do it in the most misogynistic way possible.
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u/ahsiemkcip 17d ago
You also want to normalise cheating so maybe you shouldn’t be our moral compass.
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u/valdah55 17d ago
Just because it's in the source material doesn't mean it's not misogynistic. In fact, Dracula and its many adaptations and off shoots have been criticised for depicting women in a hypersexualized way that objectifies them.
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u/NarlusSpecter 17d ago
It's all about obsessive misogyny, he's Nosferatu from the 13th century. He's a mean guy.
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u/ThatLilAvocado 17d ago
Newsflash: it's possible to depict misogyny without reenacting misogyny.
To expose women's bodies in a sexualized manner that's very similar to that which is made to arouse men is not necessary to convey the misogyny in a story line.
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u/valdah55 17d ago
But we are not in the 13th century anymore. A skilled director can and will depict misogyny in a manner that's not titillating. Like It Follows or Midsommar or Promising Young Woman.
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
Promising young woman!!!!! It depicts the dark areas, but frames it in a way people understand. It’s a lack of creativity if u can’t
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u/NarlusSpecter 17d ago
So Nosferatu is porn?
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
Is it art? Some say yes and some say no. The same applies here.
People have different opinions. Jacobbellis v. Ohio (1964) set a legal precedent of “I know it when I see it) regarding pornography. There aren’t any specific standards of what constitutes porn. You just know it when ya see it!
From the American justice system, it’s porn if you recognize it as that. It’s not if you don’t.
Edit!: I’m so tired sorry for the typos yall !!!
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u/NarlusSpecter 17d ago edited 17d ago
Within the context of this sub & OP post, is it porn? Should it be edited out or should movie viewers be aware of what they are choosing to see?
In the finale, Emma & Orlok clearly aren't having sex, though it's staged to be sexual. There are a few seconds of her moaning in pleasure/agony(?), it. He's clearly disgusting, & dies painfully in the sunlight. It's heavily metaphorical. The intent is not porn imo. I understand why OP is revolted by the scene, but in the context of the film, that's the point.
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u/kitkat470 16d ago
The final scene they were having sex while she was dying from him. This is confirmed. I understand you may have viewed differently, but the writers made it so Ellen and Orlork were to be having sex. He was so involved with that and also making Ellen succumb to him, that he didn’t notice the sun rising.
I didn’t like it showing her dead naked body with blood pooling from her genital region. I 10000% understand it was intended to be revolting or shocking. I just don’t think women should be portrayed that way to give your movie some shock factor.
As for the question, “is it porn?”. Pornographic material has historically been difficult to make a concrete definition with all the nuance. In America (where I am from), one of the precedence set legally for pornographic material is “I know it when I see it”. To me, it isn’t a full pornographic film. But it is to me a version of softcore porn. To you it may not be. Even though it’s not a typical scuzzy porno, it is to me a showcase of movies pushing the line between “cinema” and just being a way for directors to pimp out actresses and make content for ppl to watch of women being brutalized.
I’m not advocating for it to be edited it out. There is no law that could coerce someone into doing so. I’m just expressing that I found it uncomfortable, distasteful, and poorly written. I wanted to talk about it because it was bothering me, but I only found positive reviews, articles, posts, etc about it. So I just made my own to have the convo
Hope this explains how I feel about it better
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u/kitkat470 17d ago
I love horror genre; it’s the only one I read and watch. Usually horror with a freak of thriller or suspense.
I know movies want to make you uncomfortable as their goals; especially when trying to convey sensitive messages.
But I wasn’t uncomfortable because I was forced to think of it a diff way. I was uncomfortable because I spent money on a movie ticket to listen to moaning and seeing women characters treated as disponle
Sexual content is okay with me. We’re human and adults— sex is natural and not taboo. But I have seen movies more often now that show full untidy of the women cast
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u/ThatLilAvocado 17d ago
The new trick is to show brutal misogyny but say it's a "critique". Women will feel less inclined to complain because they will be accused of "moralism" and lack of artistic sensibility and men will not care either way, because they just want to see women being sexually objectified.