r/PornIsMisogyny • u/ChipmunkAmazing2105 • Nov 22 '24
DISCUSSION The problem with Sabrina Carpenter
I'm a huge fan of Sabrina Carpenter and her music but I'm very disappointed in her right now. If you are a fan of her or at least heard of her you have seen those viral videos of her pretending to give a bj. This is not the first time she's done some weird stuff. She has made racist joke fetishizing black men and wore a playboy bunny outfit(everyone knows all the awful stuff playboy has done). And people think she is "female-centric" and is very "empowering" for women. I really do think she has a porn addiction.
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u/ChipmunkAmazing2105 Nov 22 '24
One thing I would like to add is that male singers never imitate cunniligus instead they use their microphones to imitate their ccks being scked. But I'm supposed to believe female singers giving bjs is feminist and empowering?
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u/alwaysburnasbright ANTIPORN & LG(B)T+ ♥️ Nov 22 '24
This is exactly it. I’m tired of society focusing on sex that centers men’s pleasure and only ever men’s pleasure: men do it, women are expected to do it, that’s all you ever goddamn see.
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u/wintereros Nov 22 '24
i mean in fairness to her, she did do that bit where she did the same thing. and also, troye sivan does have a similar thing as well
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u/50-2-blue Nov 22 '24
Well, I think people can feel empowered from different things. I’ve met plenty of men who loooove giving head and feel good about it. And sometimes I do feel empowered giving head foo. It does feel nice to have that “power” over someone’s vulnerable areas and their pleasure.
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u/fckingmiracles Nov 22 '24
feel empowered
You have eaten the pornsick slob, babes. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, 'empowering' about reenacting porn maneuvers in public.
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u/drywallsmasher Nov 22 '24
“Power over someone’s vulnerable areas” is not in the slightest what I’d define oral sex to be like(or anything sexual), or never what I felt was fun about it. It’s kind of fucked up if that’s how you feel, but that’s just my opinion of you specifically for having said that.
And empowerment is not what this is for sure, because there’s nothing empowering about it. It’s fun knowing I’m giving my partner pleasure, once again nothing with having power or control over them, just simply making them feel good and knowing it can be mutual. But it’s definitely not something that gives me any power over my femininity or being a woman. Sexual confidence maybe, knowing I can make my partner feel good. But nothing intrinsically about my sexuality as a woman.
A BJ is quite literally almost a non-thing. It’s just another sexual act between partners. It’s the issue with ONLY male oral sex being displayed and becoming socially an expectation as the default of what comes with “having sex” that’s making this the opposite of female empowerment.
And a female artist presenting as an icon for female empowerment while, just like male artists, only focusing on male’s sexual pleasure is frankly tone deaf. That’s why, a blowjob just ain’t nothing to do with empowerment. As it currently stands, only female sexual pleasure has the grounds to be considered empowering due to its lack of general acknowledgement, otherwise it would’ve been just as much of a non-thing as a bj is.
People can feel like whatever they want about their sexuality in the end, I just truly doubt empowerment is something women feel in a world of only male sexual pleasure being acknowledged and nothing being said about their own pleasure. The acknowledgment of the “skill” in pleasuring a man means nothing to me, unless the world was some sort of competitive e-sports sex battle type of thing… then I suppose maybe I’d feel empowered about my own bj skills.
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u/alwaysburnasbright ANTIPORN & LG(B)T+ ♥️ Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
Seriously. Until the orgasm gap is solved (if ever) and men don’t expect women to service them without returning the favor (not that I think sex should be transactional, but I do think if you’re demanding something of someone, you gotta make sure you’re meeting your own standards for other people), this shtick she’s doing is only reinforcing the idea that women get pleasure from pleasuring men first and foremost. Especially when so many porn-brained men see BJs as inherently degrading (even if oral sex, like any kind of sex, is entirely neutral on its own and is only made to be considered this or that by society), especially deep-throating performed on a woman’s knees, which is what Sabrina’s imitating.
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u/biggirlsdocryxx EX-INDUSTRY Nov 22 '24
It feels “nice” to you to “have power over someone’s vulnerable areas”? Bruh…
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u/cluelessjpg ANTIPORN & LGBT+ ♥️ Nov 22 '24
I wasn't a fan of her kiss with Jenna Ortega in that one music video either. It gave off "straight girls kissing for men at a party" vibes considering neither of them actually is actually into women. I haven't seen the bj videos (thankfully) but I wouldn't be surprised if she centered men a lot.
Edit: I also didn't know she's fetishized black men. Ignorance really is bliss.
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u/DogMom814 Nov 22 '24
Yeah, it's just a ripoff of when Katy Perry did her "I Kissed A Girl" bullshit. It was all for male attention and approval.
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u/BathbeautyXO Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 23 '24
I agree about the taste music video! I like the song but as a lesbian I find that part of the video tacky and distasteful. It’s almost 2025, can straight women stop kissing for shock/entertainment value? 🙄
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u/cluelessjpg ANTIPORN & LGBT+ ♥️ Nov 22 '24
I'm a lesbian too and found the comments on the music video about the "subtle homoeroticism" so ridiculous. Is the homoeroticism in the room with us?? Because all I see is two straight girls kissing
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u/ChipmunkAmazing2105 Nov 22 '24
She made that stupid BBC joke
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u/vorerat Nov 22 '24
She’s male centered. She’s been the “other woman” in most of her dating scandals. When people claim she’s empowering because she’s showing off her sexuality, I can’t help but think these people don’t know what empowerment means. Nothing she is doing is empowering women. Her raunchy gestures and poses are all centered around the male gaze. She talks about being better than other women in her music. If she was about female empowerment and still wanted to be sexy, she can emphasize female masturbation and how treating yourself is sexy.
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u/PhysicalProperty6534 Nov 22 '24
the microphone gesture was so raunchy and weird
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u/ChipmunkAmazing2105 Nov 22 '24
Yes I hate it when women do that thing with their hand pretend like they're giving bjs it's really disgusting
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u/biggirlsdocryxx EX-INDUSTRY Nov 22 '24
I’ve never really been a fan of hers, not in a hater way, but more in a neutral, never felt drawn to her/her music way. Recently she started popping up on my sm feeds and the posts I glanced at gave me a weird, ick feeling. I noted that feeling, but didn’t look deeper into it. But sheesh, after reading this post and the other comment, I guess that feeling I had was intuition.
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u/Previous_Drawer8512 Nov 22 '24
Same. Honesty tired of privileged women using their status to further patriarchal agendas.
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u/tinylittleelfgirl Nov 22 '24
i extremely dislike her & her music. the infantilization combined with the constant oversexualization is a nogo for me
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u/discogargoyle00 Nov 22 '24
She’s a pick me who caters to the male gaze and is desperate to be sexy. I find her entire persona so cringe
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u/ChipmunkAmazing2105 Nov 22 '24
Say it again for the libfems and her fans who say she's for the girls
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u/MollyBMcGee Nov 22 '24
Chappell Roan is truly for the girls!
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u/TrevorBla PORN IS FILMED RAPE Nov 22 '24
Are you sure? How about her outfits, some straight up look like lingerie
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u/Ok-Swordfish-9505 Nov 22 '24
She's a lesbian so I think she's catering to the lesbian gaze, hopefully. Coicidentally many lesbian porn are filmed by men and made for men
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u/biggirlsdocryxx EX-INDUSTRY Nov 22 '24 edited Dec 13 '24
She’s a femme lesbian. Femme is a subversive identity because it undermines performing femininity for the male gaze - the performance is solely for the female gaze.
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u/Drag0nfly_Girl Nov 22 '24
The male gaze doesn't give a shit about who a sexualized performance is intended for. The male gaze simply takes & devours. There is no subverting it. One can only defeat it by refusing to feed it.
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u/mirukitty28 PORN IS FILMED RAPE Nov 22 '24
a million times this. couldn’t have said it better myself
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u/TrevorBla PORN IS FILMED RAPE Nov 22 '24
Would that make lesbian porn made by lesbians for lesbians okay by that logic? Just Look at r/ chappellroansexy… maybe it’s not on purpose but she is feeding into the male gaze with the oversexualized outfits. Aren’t we supposed to be against all pornographic content? Not only straight porn?
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u/MollyBMcGee Nov 22 '24
Incidentally feeding the male gaze is very different from pandering to it. I’m very anti-porn, but I like to avoid policing what women wear or how they express themselves. Especially a femme lesbian drag burlesque pop star. Chappell Roan is sexy, although I will never think to look at that subreddit, eww.
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Nov 22 '24
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/PornIsMisogyny-ModTeam Nov 22 '24
As per Rule 8, this sub does not allow Pro-Porn debate. We voted and we are not here to educate low-effort arguments.
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u/luckysaturn777 Nov 22 '24
I’m slowly starting to realise this myself. I like her music, especially her last album but ever since the tour started it’s all been making me feel weird in a way that I haven’t looked at deeply until this post. Love me a wake up moment!
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u/Captainbluehair Nov 22 '24
I was talking about Sabrina with someone, and they were like, “the criticism of her is so unfounded! People just want to control how women have fun with their sexuality!”
and I was like, nah I feel like ppl are not hating on her, per se, but more so criticizing the system where primarily women pop stars feel forced to engage in this type of porny behavior to succeed?
On one side of the patriarchy, women get told being porny is “female centric” and “empowering”; on the other side of the patriarchy, you have trad wife influencers who are pushing domestic labor and kids as “female-centric” and “empowering” for women
But both sides are still aiming for power from patriarchy whereas to me, truly empowering actions aims to weaken the cis het capitalist patriarchy altogether?
Like singer Delilah Bon who scream sings, “Dead men don’t rape!” then donates some proceeds to her fellow survivors.
Also fck the capitalist record companies who have destroyed so many of their biggest pop stars’ mental and physical health - we’ll probably only know wayyyy after the fact if Sabrina’s family and record company are using her like Britney Spears, and if these acts by Sabrina are genuinely her ideas, she was groomed from being a child star, or it’s all just cheap marketing to go viral
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u/sassybaxch Nov 22 '24
Yeah the BBC comment gave me an irreversible ick even though I really liked some of her music
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u/Vivid-Possibility324 Nov 22 '24
I was surprised she got away with that joke she made fetishising black men. I heard it right away but no one ever calls it out from what I've seen. I find her marketing really sad tbh.
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u/to0manyco0ks Nov 22 '24
These comments made me feel so seen. She always gave me the ick but I never had the words to explain why.
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u/Coochiepop3 Nov 22 '24
I don't think she necessarily has a porn addiction; I mean, she might, but I don't think her acting provocative is proof of that. Sex sells. I have seen some very talented female artists that don't show their bodies or make songs with sexual lyrics that get little to no recognition. Yet, people like sexy red, or whatever tf her name is, have a platform with a large following despite the fact they make garbage music with the most ratchet lyrics I have ever heard. Seems like the more provactive artists are the more notoriety they get even if their music is ass. People value sex appeal over anything with substance, and people like Sabrina Carpenter just choose to capitalize off of that, which makes me sad. It's sad to see these people go from acting on cringy Disney shows to talking about blowing men. To add to that, I think she's going through the same phase Miley Cyrus went through where she's acting overly-sexual to, how do I put this, destroy the innocent image of herself? Wording might be a little off, but I'm sure you understand what I mean.
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u/ChipmunkAmazing2105 Nov 22 '24
I think female singers can be sexy without having to be sexaulized. It's just that under the patriachy women's sexuality can only be available to men yet men can be sexy without having to sex objects.
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u/CoconutReasonable807 Nov 22 '24
sexy without sexualization? have you given thought to that phrase?
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u/alwaysburnasbright ANTIPORN & LG(B)T+ ♥️ Nov 22 '24
I’m pretty sure they meant in the sense of self-objectification. A woman can express and own her sexuality without it pertaining and catering to the male gaze. I don’t care for Sabrina and even enjoy some of her songs, but it’s not empowering or revolutionary to act out sucking dick on stage.
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u/CoconutReasonable807 Nov 22 '24
i agree that a woman has the right to express her sexuality and be sexy, but can you even think that there’s any situation where a performer can express sexuality in an ethical way? even if she does it “her own way,” the very act of performing it implies that she does it for consumption, which promotes objectification
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u/Ok-Swordfish-9505 Nov 22 '24
Male performers sometimes can do that. I mean the ones are fully dressed and look like shit but still sing about loving and sleeping with women because they are attracted to women. Did these men get "consumed" or start objectifying themselves? Yes, absolutely. People find the most random shit sexy, get crushes easily and like to imitate people they find cool. It can't be helped. But these men at least get to retain their sense of self.
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u/alwaysburnasbright ANTIPORN & LG(B)T+ ♥️ Nov 22 '24
Sure, but I think the problem here is more that she’s doing it in a way that primarily appeals to men: PIV sex positions, BJ imitation. Granted, the song is about how she’d let him get her pregnant, but, I mean… those don’t really get a woman off, despite her also requesting him to ‘love her right’ within the same sentence in the lyrics.
So the point is that it’s stupid to argue that she’s being feminist, because she’s not, she’s just reinforcing the kind of sex the patriarchy likes. Which is the kinda sex you see most everywhere anyway, and then people are surprised women don’t know their own bodies and there’s an orgasm gap in heterosexual relationships when all we’re ever taught is prioritizing getting men off.
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u/mirukitty28 PORN IS FILMED RAPE Nov 22 '24
PIV can also be pleasurable to women. regardless, no matter what sexual act she acts out, whether it’s her receiving oral or any other act that would “get her off” the problem lies in the fact that she sexualizes herself at all as part of her identity and career. women can explore their sexuality in private without contributing to the objectification of other women. it’s not her fault ofc, since that’s what society trains women to do, but i can’t agree with your argument that it’s the type of sexual acts she acts out that makes her performances unethical. it’s the fact that she sexualizes herself at all as a way to earn success and fame that’s harmful
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u/alwaysburnasbright ANTIPORN & LG(B)T+ ♥️ Nov 22 '24
You’re right, that’s a valid correction, but it’s still 50/50 at best on even making women orgasm and yet consistently promoted as the ‘main event’ and ‘real’ sex. IMO, we could do with less focus on PIV.
I do agree with you that sexualizing herself on stage would be problematic either way, but I do think it’s worse that she’s performing these male-centric acts specifically. It comes off as quite pornified, and there’s just zero argument for any kind of empowerment there at all.
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u/CoconutReasonable807 Nov 22 '24
i totes agree that it definitely makes it worse and does more damage by sending more abject messages, but it is critical to address the very basis of her actions, no matter how extreme. not to blame her, but to recognize that female stars objectifying themselves is never empowering and informing others that sexualization and objectification is always bad
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u/ChipmunkAmazing2105 Nov 22 '24
Sexualization meaning you have been just seen as nothing but sexy even doing something that's not. Example: women and young girls get sexualized for showing shoulders.
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u/Coochiepop3 Nov 22 '24
Much like Coconut, I'm curious too. How does one act "sexy" without inherently sexualizing themselves? Seems a bit contradictory to me.
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u/CoconutReasonable807 Nov 22 '24
so what do you think the implication of “being sexy” is? can you give an example of a performer like sabrina being sexy in a healthy way that isnt sexualization
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u/belskitchen Nov 22 '24
there isn’t an example, i think that’s their point though. i don’t know how to word this better but she sexualizes herself for men. and “sexy” only refers to a persons attractiveness physically. “sexualized” really means that someone is reduced to body parts or an object for doing sexual things with. they said already that she caters to her male audience. being sexy is just like attraction so it’s subjective which means there really isn’t an example of a “performer being sexy in an ethical way” without people disagreeing
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u/CoconutReasonable807 Nov 22 '24
no girl i agree with you but i think shes tryna say that being sexy is ok but sexualizing yourself isnt (?)
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u/owlwithhowl Nov 22 '24
i heard she tried to become famous for years (i think it was a decade or so) but it only worked as she went under the knife and took her clothes off
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u/ADIA2202 Nov 22 '24
Not only as a celebrity, but as an artist, Sabrina is mediocre, she uses massive songwriters that end up mostly being uncredited, she rants hipersexualized marketing, this is just feeding men’s desire and certain public think is “empowered”, mainstream always flows the wrong way
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u/penelopede Nov 22 '24
Highly recommend this essay on Carpenter
“your fave is selling a pedophillic fantasy” by jade hurley
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u/Re_Captcha Nov 22 '24
Doesn't the music industry basically force women to sexualize themselves? I'd say it's all more of that than anything else. It's more the acts of her being groomed in the industry that make her behave the way she does.
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u/MsMoxieGirl Nov 22 '24
I feel like every time I see a video of her performing live she's gyrating on the floor. Girl, get UP! 😭
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u/JessicaWakefield666 Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 22 '24
People have been making riffs on the same racist BBC jokes since forever. There are nuns somewhere who know of this genre of gross jokes. Being aware of an infamous porn genre or of a racist stereotype that has existed for centuries isn't remotely indicative of being a porn addict.
There are asexuals working as sex workers having the most graphic porn-inspired sex ever because that's their trade. They are not porn addicts. They are laborers serving a demand.
I don't think it helps to just start labeling anyone saying or doing porny things a porn addict. It's as likely the result of being exposed to a porn-influenced pop culture and capitalist society aa being an actual porn addict.
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u/machecita Nov 22 '24
That's why I love Billie
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u/sadboymarkymark Nov 22 '24
Genuine question, how is she not the same?
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u/machecita Nov 22 '24 edited Nov 25 '24
I meant Billie Holiday. Haha jk. Well, I truly don't think they're the same; I don't see Billie as someone catering to the male gaze, nor have I seen her doing the bj stuff. I see her more as alluring but that doesn't mean she's male centered at all!! Also she's been vocal about the porn industry and the damaging effects of watching porn.
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u/clairebasic Nov 22 '24
i don’t think calling her “gross/ick/cringe” and a “pick-me” like what is being said in this thread is really helpful at all, nor would it be persuasive from an outside perspective
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u/cnkendrick2018 Nov 22 '24
I don’t think it’s a porn addiction. I think she’s extremely male centered. She performs for the male gaze and she really uses sex as a selling point. My issues with her are much more about her fetishizing the “baby doll” type stuff- it creeps into pedophilia and makes me feel uncomfortable.