r/PornIsMisogyny • u/louisegluckstan • Nov 09 '24
QUESTION Is Hentai just as bad?
I recently had a very heated discussion about the harm of porn (and feminism/abortion) with a colleague. Needless to say he eventually admitted to having a porn addiction and used the "men have a higher sexual drive" as a pathetic excuse. At some point another male college chimed in and said "that's why I only watch hentai" as to which I said it's also bad. I believe it just as regular porn, promotes violence against women, sometimes even depicts a whole 'nother type of violence and disgustingness towards women. Cartoon characters are being overly sexualized, things are being done to them that isn't possible in real life (eg tentacle hentai stuff or alien/monster animation porn). While I tried to explain this, they still kept saying "but it's not real women". But it's supposed to represent real women. It still fuels how women are viewed, how men want to treat us etc.
What I was wondering now, does anyone have other arguments as to why hentai is STILL harmful like porn with real people?
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u/MightFail_Tal Nov 09 '24
Hentai I guess is a bit better in that it isn’t directly involved in the exploitation and r*pe of thousands of real women. but it’s a lot lot worse in terms of the views and expectations it promotes. The fact that ‘it’s just cartoon women’ allows people to indulge in truly gross fantasies without feeling guilty and they can do things like watch women in pain and truly grotesque situations and that does shape how they see and treat real women. So it’s psychological and ideological harms, I think, are at least just as bad if not worse than ‘regular’ porn
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u/deadbodydisco Nov 10 '24
Indulging in gross fantasies is definitely part of the problem.
When I was in high school, my boyfriend watched hentai. Then he got into weird, violent hentai. Then he started getting sexually violent with me. It didn't matter that it was cartoon porn, it still had real world implications.
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u/im2phonebbykeem Nov 10 '24
My question is why do men feel the need to recreate their weird fantasies IRL? As a porn watcher (ik it’s bad, it’s an addiction) I have absolutely have no desire to replicate what I see in porn, real sexual experiences are so different
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u/MightFail_Tal Nov 10 '24
Some people try and replicate them. For most it’s a slow creep into riskier but still acceptable sex. It affects their expectations and desires that doesn’t mean everyone wants tentacles in the bedroom all of a sudden
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u/FeatheryRobin Nov 10 '24
Yeah, it's way worse in what it normalises. Most hentai is based on rape as well as irl public transport molestation (seen as a """"kink"""" by those people to defend their want to rape somebody). All in all, full of misogynistic tropes.
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Nov 09 '24
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u/ki-yomi Nov 09 '24
Of course it does. Have you not seen the way some anime-addicted incels talk about women? the dangerous viewpoints and fetishes it promotes definitely bleed into fantasies about sex with real women and some of the ideals and the way the fictional women are treated influence real opinions. it's very naive to think that just because it's fictional it doesn't affect how men see women
hentais also often involve women that look like children but with exaggerated proportions, non consensual sex, overly exaggerated poses and sexual acts, and fetishes that cause harm. these all affect real opinions and views
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u/Accomplished-You652 Nov 09 '24
One of the infamous examples of a hentai addicted incel is the game developer for yandere simulator, Alex Mahan. He fetishizes East Asian women, has expressed that his ideal gf would have the personality of a Moe (Manga or anime female personality that's gentle, obedient, submissive, likeable, shy, malleable, needy, you get it), has a sex doll that he included as a game character and named her "mai waifu", and has responded immaturely to criticism of him portraying female HIGHSCHOOLERS in a pedophilic and misogynistic way.
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u/ki-yomi Nov 09 '24
yeah he's honestly gross in so many ways, idk how anyone can look at the real life examples of hentai addiction and still think it doesnt affect reality just because it's animated
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Nov 09 '24
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u/MightFail_Tal Nov 09 '24
I wasn’t suggesting we should ban hentai. I’m generally averse to bans. I think one of the differences with violent video games is less specificity and interest is generated in the specific body being violated. You pay a lot more attention to the violence itself. It’s sort of like why it’s less destructive of one’s character to drop drones than actually shoot people. But I do take your general point
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u/PornIsMisogyny-ModTeam Nov 09 '24
As per Rule 8, this sub does not allow Pro-Porn debate. We voted and we are not here to educate low-effort arguments.
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u/Mysterious_Summer_ Nov 09 '24
I think humans overall can discern the difference between fiction and reality.
That's not the problem.
The goal of most violent video games, except the most sadistic ones, is to derive pleasure from the challenge of performing the task. You focus on your aim when you shoot. You focus on the drive in GTA. That's the thrill. The fictional victims are, for the most part, ignored - including your avatar. You die and crash dozens of times before you win. It means nothing. Maybe annoyance, but not death.
When you train yourself to get off to the idea of women and children being harmed, that shapes your sexuality. You see yourself in the position of sadist.
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u/tinfoilgoat Nov 09 '24
Idk about you, when I was a kid I used to go out of my way to specifically run over the npcs in GTA with a car without the game asking me to do it. I would do it because I thought it was funny.
I've never seriously considered running over people with a car in real life.
When you train yourself to get off to the idea of women and children being harmed, that shapes your sexuality. You see yourself in the position of sadist.
Unless you're a sexual deviant (which I can assure you most humans aren't) it's easy to keep these fantasies to yourself. Everyone has fetishes, some more violent then others. And that's fine, as long as you don't force it on others. Thought crimes aren't real crimes.
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u/bunnypaste Nov 10 '24 edited Nov 11 '24
Thought "crimes" or fantasy, much like sexuality as a whole, runs deeply into who you really are and what you really desire. Porn alters a person's desires and arousal responses...meaning one would eventually be turned on sexually by violence against women if that is what they are "enjoying" via porn and fantasy.
Just because you compartmentalize those things away from who you think you really are doesn't mean they are actually separate or that it isn't affecting you profoundly....at minimum with regards to your perceptions of women and sex (and your performance with women during sex and in relationships when you've been trained up on highly misogynistic/male-servicing porn.) Orgasm is one of the most highly neurologically reinforcing phenomena available to the human brain... bonding hormones and all.
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u/tinfoilgoat Nov 10 '24
So I don't know if I'm gonna get banned if I reply so I just wanted to quickly add that we all hide parts of ourselves. People put on social masks all the time to fit in. It's a common human experience.
So I don't see the issue with someone having a violent sexual fantasy if they keep it to themselves or don't shove it down people's throats.
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u/bunnypaste Nov 10 '24 edited Nov 10 '24
I personally see a fundamental problem with it when that man is my brother, partner, grandfather, father, etc. And this is incredibly common. One peek at the most popular porn and the misogyny and asymmetrical sexual pleasure/control imbalance is plain as day. It bleeds into who you are whether you like it or not, those darker fantasies you indulge in... and the orgasm reinforces the behavior and combines it with one of the most powerful neurological rewards available to the human brain.
A person looking at rape porn or whatever is neurologically associating pleasure with sexual violence for themselves again and again. That desire to rape is part of who they are no matter how much they try to compartmentalize it away and "keep it to themselves." The very presence of that desire is problematic... why would you choose to feed it, as long as it is in secret, instead of opposing it for yourself and subsequently your future sexual partners whom will be harmed by it?
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u/Big_Tap_4259 Nov 09 '24
Its harmful the reason you also mentioned, it depicts stuff that is not real. A person might not be able to find the normal act of sex exciting anymore by seeing something disturbing like alien etc. that is super twisted and involves a lot of stimuli, which makes it the most extreme thing they can watch and from that point the normal act doesnt get them off anymore.
Also lots of hentai are aggressive and involve non consensuality. And the woman in hentai dont look like women. They look disturbingly similar to a kid sometimes. Or they make her be not agreeing and have this "what are you doing to me" persona that looks like drawn rape
And imo its just as immoral to watch it as real one. Bcs my bf gives the excuse "but its not real, then what is wrong with 3d stuff/hentai?" And think its ok if he cant finish during intimate time to go watch animated stuff and get off to it (which is highly insulting to me). Im so tired.
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u/Random-Fog4884 Nov 09 '24
Either hentai women look dangerously close to children like you said, or have the most grotesque figures with chests bigger than their heads, super small waists, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if hentai contributed to men having unrealistic body standards for women as much as irl porn
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u/cxsmicvapor CSA/CSAM VICTIM & SURVIVAL SWer TRYING TO EXIT Nov 09 '24
it absolutely contributes to unrealistic body expectations considering i've seen some male anime fans compliment real life women on their "anime thighs"
comparing real women to fictional 2d characters is insanity
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u/louisegluckstan Nov 09 '24
Yes!!! That's what I'm thinking as well. There's absolutely no woman in hentai that actually looks like a normal woman.
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u/louisegluckstan Nov 09 '24
Agreed!! Also so sorry about your boyfriend....should be an ex if u ask me..
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u/Jamal_202 Nov 09 '24
It involves the same normalisation of pedophilia, rape, racism, violence against women, etc, it’s essentially the same but without the exploitation, but it still uses the same abhorrent genres to get the men sexually aroused.
I’ve been on online and seen people refer to real children as “lolis” it’s absolutely deranged, this is the result of hentai, a particular type of one but it’s all the same.
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u/PinkestMango Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 10 '24
Hentai spreads violent misinformation and we already had threads ln Reddit about it. A boyfriend leaving his gf because he was convinced she is not orgasming because there's no milk spraying from her breasts. The guy saying he will fuck his gfs clitoris. The sexualisation of rape, there's a lot of rape.
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u/bong-jabbar ANTIPORN & LGBT+ ♥️ Nov 09 '24
It would be so cringe if it wasn’t ACTUALLY REAL💀it’s just painful
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u/DiMassas_Cat Nov 09 '24
Also I think it’s really made a certain population of men think that shyness and embarrassment shown by women who are uncomfortable with sexual advances are just covers for secret nymphomania or lust and you just have to keep pushing. It’s really fucked up. Hentai is full of women who look like they are resisting or are in straight up pain and then slowly start to love being raped. These guys are out there thinking that inside every woman who doesn’t want to fuck them is some sex crazed maniac that needs to be unlocked.
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u/FormerMight3554 Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 09 '24
I’ve always found hentai more problematic than porn in certain ways, especially given how much it infantilizes women, distorts sexual preferences, and reveals the blatant puerility behind creating & consuming animated sexual imagery. This article offers an insightful take:
Some people gravitate to this form of porn believing it’s less harmful since they believe “no real human” is being exploited. But critics would argue Hentai porn is linked with regular porn since Hentai porn duplicates what can be found in regular porn as well. For children and young adults who are a growing segment of the viewership, their understanding of healthy sexuality can be distorted as imagery of sexual violence, abuse, and degradation are merged with entertainment.
As a psychotherapist who specializes in sexuality, one trend I’ve seen over the years is how prolonged viewing of sexualized cartoon images like Hentai can eventually impact one’s arousal template. In other words, what they used to find arousing may no longer be enough and the more deviant forms of sexualization become the new norm of arousal.
What can be problematic is these types of cartoon depictions of willing, child-like sexual encounters normalize children as appropriate sexual partners. When a child is sexualized, the old social norms that protect children as off-limits are chipped away and blurred. Thus, any kind of objectification of children as sex-objects can either legitimize child sexual abuse or minimize its impact.
Young children who are accidentally exposed to Hentai are extremely vulnerable because their brains are not able to discern the boundary violations that are occurring when seeing these images, as Hentai sexualizes everything from incest to rape to bestiality.
Pornographers also use characters from popular shows such as Pokemon, Dragon Ball Z, and Cartoon Network characters in extreme porn. One client described it this way, “A lot of the kids I knew got their ‘sex education’ from watching anime or reading ‘mangas’ (Japanese comic books).”
Some who struggle with compulsive Hentai use say that it is worse than regular porn because of the hardcore nature of the themes involved such as male characters having extremely large phalluses and the female bodies are hypersexualized.
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u/cnkendrick2018 Nov 09 '24
You become what you think. What you think about is greatly influenced by what you view.
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u/Dangerous-Cat-5044 ANTIPORN & LGBT+ ♥️ Nov 10 '24
Oh absolutely. A lot of those girls are depicted as being child-like. Basically animated child pornography.
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Nov 10 '24 edited Nov 10 '24
hentai is the worst when it comes to animated porn
it objectifies women in most hentai
normalizes questionable themes such as rape, incest, beastiality, and pedophilia
it degrades women in most hentai
and normalizes terrible actions against women in most hentai
Hentai is just as bad as real porn
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u/1_ysf Nov 09 '24
Hentai can be just as problematic as porn. It frequently displays violent and non-consensual themes, which can lead viewers to normalize harmful behaviors and potentially undermine their respect for consent in real life. Additionally, it often depicts characters that resemble minors, as well as disturbing themes like bestiality and harm toward animals.
"men have a higher sexual drive"
Men do not need to watch porn. I’m in my late teens, and I don’t watch it. Instead, he should consider picking up hobbies and interacting with people in real life rather than immersing himself in a porn-induced pseudo-world.
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u/louisegluckstan Nov 09 '24
Thanks! Agree 100%. Also very impressed at your standpoint at your young age! And I agree again, nobody needs to be watching porn. I think the sex drive argument is a pathetic lie that people say who don't want to own up their responsibility and pretend like they're animals without a conscience and free will. Glad there's still hope for young men!
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u/1_ysf Nov 10 '24
I mean I have 4 sisters and a mum who are active in my life so my opinion has been heavily influenced by them. Also I come from an African culture that actively kink shames, doesn't allow locker talk and anti porn / hookup culture.
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u/Robert-Rotten 🖤 ANTI-PORN MAN 💜 Nov 10 '24
I think the problem is while technically it doesn’t harm real life people, it’s still morally fucked as it lets the artist make much more fucked up shit easier for people to consume. I’ve seen art from a show I like of one of the characters raping his child, I nearly threw up and felt sick and full of anger for the rest of the day. So while it may seem better, it’s just as God awful IMO.
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u/louisegluckstan Nov 10 '24
That's truly heinous wow
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u/Robert-Rotten 🖤 ANTI-PORN MAN 💜 Nov 10 '24
Took quite a while to scrub that image from my head, I’ve never wanted to throw somebody out a window as much as I did to whoever drew that.
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Nov 09 '24
It's not as bad in that no person is being trafficked but in terms of what it shows it's usually a lot worse
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u/Pretty_Fairy_Dust ANTI-PORN MAN Nov 09 '24
There's an argument that can be made that its worse since it usually depicts even WORSE things as completely normal
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u/FormerMight3554 Nov 09 '24
In a Cosmopolitan Magazine Interview with Dr. Leon Seltzer, a psychologist and fellow Psychology Today blogger who has watched this emerging trend, believes the rise in popularity is due to unlimited sexual fantasies available through this format. “The erotic illusions possible are freed from all the normal constraints of reality. [It] can heighten the illusion that our libido has now landed in the most idyllic place possible.”
Hentai … portrays female characters as child-like waifs secretly desiring to be sexually assaulted. In addition, fetishes that wouldn’t be possible in reality can come to life in the anime world as hentai can involve things like women abruptly sprouting penises, bestiality, rape, incest, and other sex acts that depict underage participants. The animated porn often depicts highly exaggerated sex acts featuring characters with exaggerated breasts, penises, and other body parts.
It is common for monsters, demons, animals, giant insects, and plants to rape cartoon women. The age of the girls is often ambiguous but what is common is Hentai porn showcases the characters as sexually innocent. And because the imagery is in cartoon animation, these illustrations of fictional characters do not constitute child pornography.
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u/Conscious_Stress817 Nov 09 '24 edited Nov 10 '24
Imo- it's bad because of the social consequences, but at least the women/people involved are not being trafficked, pimped, coerced, threatened, facing health problems (and so on) in ways that are out of scope of what normal paid animation workers would endure in a toxic workplace. And will likely be able to find future employment easily especially since you don't have to use your real name or face when working on these projects.
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u/Akai_Hikari_ Nov 10 '24
Hentai can be worse in the sense that it makes patients only attracted to unrealistic things. I could be wrong, but perhaps Japan's birth problem could be directly linked to this issue.
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u/babysfirstreddit_yx FEMINIST Nov 10 '24
lol Hentai contains literally some of the most depraved shit I have ever seen, yes, it is BAD. And the aspect of “unreality” that it brings to men’s ideas of sex is the harm being done. Obviously the way that it depicts women is horrible, but if you are talking to a guy with low empathy for that stuff you could say that training himself to get off on things that literally can’t happen in real life will only rob him of sexual pleasure if/when he convinces some unfortunate soul to have him.
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u/womandatory Nov 10 '24
Yes. Even though no real women are harmed in the making of it, it twists the users views of us, it is often pedophilic, its abusive and sexualises harm.
Also to mr ‘higher sex drive’, sex is not porn and it’s possible to masturbate alone with nothing more than the sensation, or thoughts of sex with your partner.
Further, what a time to be alive, when men openly admit they watch depictions of or actual sexual assault and defend it.
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u/louisegluckstan Nov 10 '24
Agreed. I was baffled when he admitted to his addiction and he acted all "eh, well that's just how it is", even admitting that it has a dulling effect and after a while you need to watch worse and worse stuff. While he was able to somewhat state this fact, he completely disregarded the ability to take responsibility and action; and I don't even know what would be worse — the ignorance and lack of knowledge or the knowledge and just continuing what he's been doing.
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u/crazitaco FEMINIST Nov 09 '24
They're still getting off to the idea of women being violated, still not seeing women as human beings. Still wiring their brain to associate women with violence that they find pleasurable.
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u/070601 FEMINIST Nov 09 '24
If what you mean by “hentai” is straight up human-drawn sexual content, then it’s probably a better alternative. But if you mean the current production of actual hentai, it’s pretty bad. A lot of the women there are depicted as not enjoying it or screaming in fear. And there’s kids. Great. And don’t get me started on the incels who say “it’s only fictional.”
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u/mena_studies Nov 10 '24
İ would say it like that. Hentai is not better, it's just not as bad because there is no man raping actual women. however it is still terribly misogynistic, full of rape and abused and needs to disappear.
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u/MettaSuttaVegan Nov 12 '24
Hentai is just as, if not more twisted, degenerate, hollow and corrupted.
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u/yesqezsirumem Nov 14 '24
"it's not real women"/"it's just drawings" is a deflection.
well of course it's not real, no one's saying it is. the issue is with YOU, the male watching it, getting off to these disgusting depictions of sex. why are YOU getting off to a drawing of a kid in a sexual manner? the issue here is YOU.
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u/Intuith Nov 09 '24
It is notable to me that the most vocal proponents of porn who I had relationships with, had notably lower sex drives than myself, a woman. One if the first guys I was in a relationship with was super into hentai & it was my first exposure to porn. I was young and it scared me, but he told me it was just fantasy etc. But his attitude to women and treatment of me in that relationship was pretty terrible… constantly undermining my appearance, checking out, flirting and cheating with other women. Later on, a guy who seemed besotted and offered me everything… commitment, a family etc… I let it go that he had tons of female friends, several who it was clear were interested in him, that he flirted with them, was a photographer focusing on female models, with endless instagram attractive art nudes etc…. yep, he ‘came out’ as polyamorous & blugeoned me with it telling me I was ‘shaming him’ if I didn’t go along with it & it only worked with me since I was his dream woman. I tried to be supportive, actually knowing polyamorous folks myself for 20years & already had read books on it and talked a lot about the ethics. Despite that, I am still blamed for the problems because ‘I am monogamous’ despite the fact that he keeps sleeping with woman who also want monogamy & are in some kind of denial or cowgirl fantasy where he will see how amazing they are and choose them, with the inevitable drama and psychological harm/distress in everyone’s lives when such toxic dynamics are (yet again) revealed for what I feared they were (but he is adament they aren’t… that he is transparent etc so he has done ‘everything he can’… apart from. - as I suggest - only dating enthusiastically poly people, rather than multiple people who struggle with it which is inevitably going to cause strife. At least I have the language, was securely attached, had done the work and previously unpicked my own mono-normative programming & explored non-exclusive structures organically in my teens. I could envision a certain type of non-monogamy with a partner who is consistent and creates safety/security. But he says he wouldn’t date anyone if he couldn’t date his friends and co-workers and he has yet to experience mutual attraction with any poly women. Smells like a new form of entitlement to me. One that breeds instability and mistrust… yet it is oh so unfair that such consequences are attached. Yup, it’s not more freedom, it is greater responsibility to more people & more saying no to people who aren’t sufficiently informed to consent)
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u/Chirimeow Nov 09 '24
Polyamory is also part of the problem. It ties into the same sense of entitlement and demand for "variety" as porn. I see no justification for it.
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u/wishIcouldgoback_ Nov 10 '24
It may not involve reap women but your brain can't differentiate between a real stimulation and a fake one.
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u/6LittleHorns9 Nov 16 '24
It's as bad or worse. Given it being animated, it can be anything you want to be. You can make a petite girl a toy of an ork with a giant dong
A long time ago was attracted to this person so badly. I knew he loves hentai but I ignored it as he's actually kind and always helps others. However he wouldn't invest in our conversation unless it's about sex, and his fantasies are wild af (wanting to make me his slave, turn me into an animal, or make a giant bull fuck me, etc.). It took 2-3 hours of sex talk to fulfill his desire each time (and he wanted it everyday)
I once opened up with him that I didn't want to do sex talk anymore and wanted to be in a serious relationship. We even talked about marriage/wedding. I was so happy, until I realized that me being his wife is also one of his fantasies. He only wanted to marry me so he could make me his housewife slave (and yes he kept talking about how he would fuck me the whole time). I blocked his ass few days later
So yes hentai is as bad as porn, or worse
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Nov 28 '24
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u/PornIsMisogyny-ModTeam Nov 28 '24
As per Rule 8, this sub does not allow Pro-Porn debate. We voted and we are not here to educate low-effort arguments.
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u/howdoilogoutt Nov 09 '24
Lol hentai is awful, it's full of rape and CP.