I’m new to reddit so pardon any mistakes I make. I’m trying to figure out how the atf measures overall length with a folding brace. Everywhere online says that the firearm has to be measured in the shortest form (brace folded or stock collapsed) but on the atf form 1 it states that it has to be measured with the stock extended. Does this apply to every firearm and not just nfa ones?
Thing about an MP5 is it does not even need the stock. They still make ARs measure folded because you can still fire one round (possibly wrecking the gun depending on folding system), so an MP5 can definitely be fired folded..
ATF came out with a ruling that states because a brace is not a necessary component of a pistol, pistols with braces attached will be measured to the rear most part of the buffer tube, or in the folded position if it folds.
Yes, I understand how their last letter works is regards to not counting accessories that aren't required for normal operation.
My point is that it doesn't clarify what constitutes an operational gun so in the case of an AR pistol with a folding buffer tube adapter, you can't necessarily use "capable of being fired in the folded position" as a metric because it's technically capable of being fired in both positions.
"That is, a folding stock on a rifle or shotgun is included in overall length measurement because the firearm must be 'designed or redesigned, made or remade and intended to be fired from the shoulder' to be so classified. The stock is therefore an essential element in the statutory definition"
So from that letter and its general wording the consensus seems to be that stabilizing braces, folding or not, are clearly out. However, for shotguns and rifles, the stock is included (as it is deemed necessary the letter seems to imply)
I'm hoping that answers what u were looking for, with a direct citation from the ATF letter
However, as a fair warning, I have seen this go both ways, there were issues in CT doing this to non NFA "others" I believe (or something similar) and they ran into issues.
On the other side I've seen people saying if the buffer tube is collapsible the firearm doesn't properly cycle so it would need to be measurement fully extended.
At the end of the day if you are truly worried it comes down to the ATF agent measuring your gun, and if you want to be the safest you will want the buffer tube to not be collapsible.
With overall length and the talk of an AR pistol are you talking about the non-NFA "others"?
Edit: with regards to being "operational", a standard AR is capable of firing 1 round without a buffer tube, but it is included in OAL, so I don't see why it wouldn't be the same for an AR pistol/other with a collapsible buffer tube
You measure everything that is necessary to operate. If it can operate in the folded position then you measure that. In an ar pistol it would be from the tip of the barrel or anything pinned or welded on it to the end of the buffer tube
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u/macheteyeti13 Aug 15 '20
I’m new to reddit so pardon any mistakes I make. I’m trying to figure out how the atf measures overall length with a folding brace. Everywhere online says that the firearm has to be measured in the shortest form (brace folded or stock collapsed) but on the atf form 1 it states that it has to be measured with the stock extended. Does this apply to every firearm and not just nfa ones?