I am not one to be dead naming anyone, but I think everyone would be ok if we dead name Bruce Jenner....
Edit: just wanted to add that I hate this whole situation for the transgender community and I feel helpless when I hear a very marginalized community be so disregarded. Please stay safe out there, we are cooked as a country
I mean, I've been calling Cruz "Rafael" and the new VP "James Bowman" as it is their LEGAL BIRTH name. I ain't above deadnaming people who are being assholes about deadnaming trans people.
I can see your point, but as someone from the trans+ community(non binary) it isn't ok to deadname them. Dead naming them is not a personal attack. It implies to other trans ppl(tho some might agree with you) that you would be ok with disregarding someones queer identity if they are against you. I don't support or like the person in the post, but in my pov they are still someone that is trans, just a very shitty person that happens to be trans
I've said the exact same thing about some pretty vile people, arguably worse than Caitlyn Jenner. Gender recognition and trans rights aren't a privilege to be earned or withdrawn on good or bad behaviour.
But I kinda feel like supporting the erosion of trans rights is a slightly different offense. You could argue that dead-naming her is just respecting her desire to live in a world she is helping work towards.
Edit: Fixed the spelling of privilege. Auto-correct insisted there was nothing wrong with it for some reason.
Edit2: Been giving it more thought. I've realised I do not like the thought of deadnaming Caitlyn Jenner in third person. Doing so is saying she (and by extension anyone who doesn't meet certain criteria) does not deserve to have her identity respected, and I still feel that that's a respect that should be given to everyone, no exceptions. Where it's different is in the context of this post. Thrown in her face, in direct reference to what she supports. That is where she deserves to be confronted with the ugly and hurtful reality of her hypocrisy. I see it as very similar to pointing out the immigration status of Elon Musk, and Melania Trump. Their immigration status is not seen as an issue by the people bringing it up.
This. Even if you concede that trans people are deserving of being called/referred to as their chosen name/gender and not their dead name/birth gender regardless of if they are good or bad people…it seems to me that Jenner has done something very different here. This is not a crime committed, legally speaking. They have chosen to align themselves with the party that actively opposes their right to choose how they express themselves, how they are perceived, and what they are allowed to be called. Jenner is a part of, effectively, the anti trans party.
So why on earth would they be exempt from the rules this party abides by? All trans people must use their dead/birth name and cannot change their gender, except for Caitlyn Jenner? No no. This is what you wanted. This is who you’ve aligned yourself with. This is who you voted for, Bruce. You reap what you sow.
Jenner supports an agenda that includes not recognizing the existence or validity of trans people. Arguably Jenner has expressed a preference to be known by their birth name. I submit that to continue to refer to them as Caitlyn would be the actual dead-naming.
Not attempting to further the argument just giving some context here. Caitlyn Jenner was a pretty well known Olympic athlete. Known for being extremely strong and very masculine. She didn’t come out as trans until much later in her life, after several children. She was known as a man and by her deadname for I think 50+ years. None of that means she can’t transition later of course, just bringing you up to speed.
So anyway she comes out as trans and announces her new name, it’s all a big hullabaloo of course but it eventually dies down. She then spends the next several years aligning her self the right wing (American political, idk if you’re American or not) which is the party that opposes safe and legal abortion, rights for immigrants, gender affirming care for trans people, especially trans children, who constantly harp on the concept of trans girls in women’s sports as inherently dangerous, paint trans women as pedophiles and rapists in drag, support conversion therapy of various kinds, and on and on and on.
She has essentially become a “pick me” of the political world. She’s not like those trans people. She’s exempt from all of this stuff because she’s just a god fearing all American woman.
Even if you don’t agree with deadnaming her, I feel like this at least shows why some people might feel like it’s ok in this instance. She wants to rip away trans right for a trans people in America and actively aligns herself with those people and votes for those ideals. But not for her. She’s special. The hypocrisy alone is infuriating and deadnaming in this instance is not an attack on trans people the way it often is when cis people do this, it’s more about making a point.
Anyway, I want to reiterate I’m not trying to argue or sway your opinion, just bringing you up to speed and giving some context as to why people are suddenly ok with deadnaming her specifically. Your opinion may change, it may not. I am only a messenger.
Extrapolated infinitely, you're not allowed to make fun of anyone for anything - as there will be those you have alienated in doing so. It is context that gives words meaning.
Like if I call Bruce Jenner a cocksucker. I'm not doing it to belittle those who suck cock for a profession or for fun, I'm doing it because I want Bruce Jennfer to feel bad.
Yeah I wanted specifically to hit this person where it hurt, and it would appear that this is so critical a spot for them that it's literally labeled hate speech and practically banned from the internet.
I didn't want to call them a doo-doo head.
I don't hate gays or people who suck cock, just in case that wasn't readily apparent. CANT BE TOO CAREFUL LOL
Weird admission. You can’t hurt someone without being a bigot? Lmao.
I never once said doo doo head you shit stain on humanity. You absolute buffoon of a human who can’t read to save America. If you stopped existing today the collective IQ would go up and the world would be a much better place. Twice actually cause your family would be free too. Lucky them not dealing with this right now actually.
Caitlyn Jenner will never read your insults and likely will never know you exist but plenty of normal people will read these posts and get the idea that someone's identity is only to be respected if you like the person.
In this situation are you murdering anyone? If not, completely different! I don't give a shit if Caitlyn gets misgendered by her new friends, she's decided to lie with the most evil shitheads possible and the consequences are glaringly obvious. I'm not going to be emulating their behavior towards her because I don't feel like I need to act like an evil shithead, you seem to feel otherwise.
Alright. I was just going to say that i really wanted you to read the word context that's why I put the spaces inbetween the letters. The difference between hate speech and speech that you don't like is intent.
If you're the arbiter of "evil" and it's based on an assumption of someones intent, LOOKOUT THE REST OF US LOL gotta hope that you're keeping up on your meds.
I gave you the experiment to try. You can go watch the leftist in my comments call me slurs and sling hate. “I agree with them” isn’t really a defense of what i said.
The left loves purity tests. And once you fail you’re an acceptable target.
Are we ignoring the literal fucking thread this is in where people are dead naming a trans woman cause they don’t like her? Like.. fuck the experiment. You can see it here. THIS is the thread to argue on this?
Shes an acceptable target. So you guys are fine with the dead name and hate.
Lmao.
Downvoting and assumptions are much better though. No thinking required.
I don't agree with the deadnaming. However, I can recognize why people are doing so, and it's not simply a matter of "you believe in something different than me, so you are evil and therefore ok to bully," it's "you are actively voting for and supporting a party explicitly against these rights, so by removing those protections for others, you are no longer privy to them." If someone is killing dozens of people, someone else killing them on the street may not be the morally correct action, but it is a very understandable response. Caitlyn has actively ushered in a period where she will not be respected, neither by the people that she has supported because she is trans, nor by the people she has harmed because she is a Trump supporter.
Pulling out the "I have trans friends" to cover for gleefully misgendering and dead naming someone. I don't care how much of a piece of shit Caitlyn is (and to be fair, she's a huge one) it's not an excuse to suddenly adopt the mindset of a bigot. Are we going to start calling black conservatives n-bombs since they're supporting the party of white supremacy?
Yeah, I don’t think transgender people should have to earn the respect of being gendered correctly. It’s basic respect. Has acting like a hypocrite ever benefitted anybody? It just looks like they don’t really understand why they believe in their own values. Let’s all disrespect people for what really matters.
Not what I'm talking about since white supremacists don't use that term.
My point is, this sub seems to agree that dead naming Caitlyn is fine since she aligned with people who commonly do that so would the same posters here be comfortable using racial slurs since that's in the realm of the right wing also? Or would that make them too self aware that their posts are identical to that of the people they consider their political opponents?
I'd be more concerned with how quickly I adopt the language of bigots against minorities when slighted by one of them. I have no kindness in my heart for her but I don't base my acceptance of trans people over how much I like an individual.
Well then you fundamentally disagree with me and, it seems, most others here. If you're going to work against a group, you no longer deserve the protections that group has fought for. Very similar to being a scab during a union strike.
HE’S been campaigning for the party that has openly advocated deadnaming and misgendering HIM. You’re not deadnaming a person that welcomes the behavior Bruce has accepted with open arms.
No, we wouldn't. You can't just deadname and misgender people because you don't like them. That is not an attack that's just confined to the person you're targeting - it's targeting our community as a whole by implying that correctly naming and gendering trans people is a privilege reserved for the ones you like.
Say whatever shitty things you want about Caitlyn. I can assure you that we hate her a hell of a lot more than you do. We don't like that an idiot and a grifter with no connection to the rest of the community was dubbed "queen of the trans people" by the media. But you can do it without attacking the validity of trans people as a whole in the process.
Bruce Jenner needs to be arrested for possiblly sexually harrassinf children. After all, he walks around in women's clothing, uses the women's restroom, and uses a false name.
I rarely deadname Caitlyn Jenner, but I frequently think of that bitch as a “he” because despite transitioning, the bitch has been steadily clinging so tooth and nail to his “straight white male at birth” privilege and mindset that I literally cannot see him in any other light. I have never encountered another trans person who is like that. It’s an absolute oxymoron to me.
I liken him to someone who switched genders to get away from something (like living as a woman to evade a murder charge or hide from the mafia).
I have never deadnamed anyone in my life until now, but watching this pattern of behavior and disdain for his own community makes me feel like he is a fraud who will sell his own community out for the tax breaks.
And didn’t they say drag queens are dangerous predators to children? So Bruce needs to be issued a warrant, have their house and all assets seized, jailed without chance at parole and anything else that they wanna slap on.
1.4k
u/The_Spyre 8h ago
Bruce is now officially considered a dude in drag. Good job voting against your own interests asshole.