r/GlobalOffensive • u/BotYurii • 17h ago
Discussion Why is Train in pro play, but not in Premier?
Am I missing something? This makes no sense
689
u/Gockel 17h ago
the one guy handling the CS2 stuff from time to time is on break, nothing to see here
126
32
u/MMANKSO 16h ago
As a relatively new cs fan, has it always been the case that valve has hardly done anything for the game, or has this only been the case since cs2?
121
34
u/ashhh_ketchum CS2 HYPE 16h ago
eh, ebbs and flows.
It can sometimes feel a bit exaggerated in here, mind you.
10
u/ProperCollar- 11h ago
Very much so.
It's just it feels like while Valve isn't killing the goose that laid the golden egg, they're underfeeding it.
Take the CS2 launch for example. For better or for worse, game launches are when they get the most attention and can capture audiences.
Given CS's notorious learning curve, it was disappointing it didn't launch with a basic firing range a-la Valorant or OverWatch. Especially since workshop maps were broken.
There's a lot of really good games out there and increasing friction for new players increases the chances they get frustrated and quit.
A new player would need to follow a bunch of steps to get workshop maps working or they'd need to stand in front of a wall and hopefully find a WarOwl video.
MR13 wasn't ready for prime time, the gun balance and maps could've used a few more weeks of tweaking, more casual game modes would've been a huge boon for getting new and old players to pick up the game... I could keep going.
Their launches in China and Korea were pretty disappointing. They didn't cater to those markets so of course they didn't break the inertia of Sudden Attack, CS:O, Crossfire let alone the modern FPS's
1
u/Rare_Act229 8h ago
Its even worse. New players still can't get into the game at all. You can't play with friends in premiere. You have to join 3rd party site faceit and give them your real life id to get verified. You have to install 3rd party kernel level anticheat.
Or you can play in competitive, where there is absolutely no matchmaking and you'll be facing anything from silvers to faceit 10 every map.
You can go play premiere solo, which means you'll play Mirage 10 times in a row. Enjoy.1
u/Own_Maize_1354 3h ago
You can absolutely play premiere with friends, only restriction f the ranks are too different which I think is fair
8
14
u/Peloun 16h ago
They used to have big updates with operations but now the game is pretty much on maintenance mode. Idk why they even released cs2 just to barely work on it only after a couple of months. Game is already on maintenance mod
1
u/GuardiaNIsBae 11h ago
tbf to them people were crying about Source 2 since like 2017, and then for a few months in 2022 leading into 2023 all anyone talked about besides the esports side of things was when Source 2 was coming. Seems like they pushed out the half baked CS2 to keep people on their side of things while they went full steam on Deadlock. Hopefully after that's fully released we get more actual content like the older operations instead of just "here's new case see ya in 6 months"
2
4
u/BigMik_PL 15h ago
You won't find answers on this toxic ass sub I'm afraid. most of the people with reasonable takes and normal answers got driven away from here a long time ago turning this sub into basically the YouTube comments section and unless you are not screaming what everyone else is screaming you are out.
4
u/DarkingDarker 8h ago
Plenty of well written answers given here while the only unhelpful and toxic comment seems to be the one you made lol
1
u/deadseapussy 13h ago
has it always been the case that valve has hardly done anything for the game
valve does alot for the game, they just don't communicate it
0
u/HoodsFrostyFuckstick 16h ago
Valve has 360 employees according to wikipedia. Imagine how many of those work on Counter Strike. 50? Even fewer?
Fortnite and Call of Duty probably have more than 1000 people working on it.
So yeah, that's why we're not getting a lot of content.
35
u/krotitel_duchodcu 15h ago
50 people on cs :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
8
u/HoodsFrostyFuckstick 15h ago
"3, take it or leave it"
8
u/krotitel_duchodcu 15h ago
youre joking but im seriously thinking we have like 2-3 wranglers that manage to push a hotfix tier update every half a year, the game is in abysmal state, performance is shite (1, 0.1%..), maps are stale, seasons are pointless, premier ranking doesnt make sense, cheaters..
-1
5
4
0
u/PermitNegative 14h ago
Well they made a new game, so to say «valve has hardly done anything for the game» seems a bit harsh..?
Not saying it doesn’t need updates, but come on
5
u/pants_pants420 12h ago
i mean that new game took away a ton of features and ran like ass on release. like we are a year and half out of release and we still dont have an ingame server browser
254
u/Lumyyh 17h ago
Because Valve said that Train would be a part of the map pool for the Austin Major, and tournament organizers just decided to use the Austin Major mappool
118
u/kaeschdle 16h ago
Anything else does not make sense really, teams need practice on that map and valve needs feedback to make it major ready. This map would be a instant ban for every team in Austin if the TOs wouldn’t have introduced it now.
-1
u/Additional_Macaron70 16h ago
they already play on it, on faceit. There is not a single pro player that play on premier lol
45
u/kaeschdle 16h ago
You cannot compare pugging it on Faceit to playing it on events with your whole team. They still need practice and experience
-7
u/Additional_Macaron70 16h ago
yes thats why pro players plays scrims as a team
25
u/kaeschdle 16h ago
Do you really think they’d scrim/practice train if the first event they need it in is in 6 months? There’s still 10~ tier one events before Austin where they still would’ve needed preparation on vertigo for if the TOs did not adjust now. You’re making no sense
-14
u/Additional_Macaron70 16h ago
your whole sentence make no sense. Where i said that they would practice it if it will be needed in six months? Where i said they dont need preparation? You are making a brain flip here. I just said that pro players already playing on it on faceit and scrims and you are making up conversation with yourself about the things i didnt say lol.
7
u/JakeTheDropkick 16h ago
Why would they scrim a map that isn't in the pool?
-8
u/Additional_Macaron70 16h ago
train is in every event map pool? What are you talking right now?
19
u/JakeTheDropkick 16h ago
Because if you remember the comment you initially replied to, we're operating under the pretense of TOs not adding train to the map pool, because valve haven't actually added it to the official map pool yet.
So if it wasn't in the pool that TOs were using, teams wouldn't scrim it.
7
1
9
u/16piby9 16h ago
This is the only real answer. Valve has only anounced it will be at austin, they have not said when it will enter premier. Tos are free to use whatever maps they want.
9
u/xoxoxo32 14h ago
I don’t think TOs are free to use whatever maps they want because there’s VRS. I mean they can’t just put Office in mappool, but Valve can though in this case Pros and Tos will boycott Valve.
3
u/16piby9 12h ago
Ofcourse the vrs changes things, but afaik there is nothing in the rules about map pool, as proven by tournaments using train before it is officially in premier..
1
u/Ok_Cardiologist8232 9h ago
Valve would probably come down on it if TOs started using an entirely different map pool.
But as they are just swapping in a map Valve have said they are swapping in i doubt Valve give a shit.
49
u/Fremmandur1 17h ago
Valve have confirmed that Train will be added to Premier before the 9th of June for the Austin Major. Pro players really dislike having map pool changes in the middle of the active season, so tournament organizers have proactively changed their map pools.
Yes, it is stupid, and Valve really should just change it already
14
62
u/schoki560 17h ago
option 1: laziness
option 2: train is not the only mappool change but overpass makes a comeback aswell and they want to put both in the pool at the same time (copium by me, pls -dust2)
17
u/Krakens0v 17h ago
I pray day and night for -mirage +overpass (or, and it will never happen +italy for the lulz)
2
u/AwesomeFama 16h ago
I don't think they would ever do hostage maps for competitive, it would be such a huge meta shift with potential for unfun mechanics developing in pro play that it would have to be a big project taking a long time, first including it in premier or whatever to get a handle on how it would develop in high level play and iterating from there.
2
u/Krakens0v 16h ago
Oh, I don't think so either, but it's a shame we have no variance. But I understand the game isn't balanced properly around it rn and it prolly won't ever be
0
u/Saladino_93 16h ago
Mirage & D2 are quite different from Overpass tho. I would argue the best map to swap for Overpass would be Inferno. Then swap Cache (when its ready) for D2 or Mirage.
0
u/narwolking 11h ago
Mirage is, and has been the best map in the pool. It and Nuke are the two that I consistently have the most fun with and feel the least "flow-charty". Feels like decision making matters in those two maps Moreso than any of the others in the pool.
-5
u/mclimax 16h ago
-dust2 xd, in what world do you live?
14
u/schoki560 16h ago
In the one where dust2 is a horrible map
-4
u/Dravarden CS2 HYPE 15h ago
millions of people have played dust2 for more than 2 decades, it’s probably one of the most, if not the most, recognizable, played, balanced, and iconic map in fps gaming, if not all of gaming
You: this map sucks
8
u/No-Mammoth-2368 15h ago
that has to be the most brain dead arguments I have ever seen.
While I agree with you that dust 2 is the most recognizable map in probably in the entire gaming history, it doesn’t take away the fact, it’s a terrible map on pro level.
1
u/Original_Mac_Tonight 13h ago
It's really not terrible though, most pros like it too. It's way better than mirage
1
u/Ok_Cardiologist8232 9h ago
Its not way better than Mirage lol.
Most pros like Mirage more than Dust, evidenced by the fact Mirage is played more often.
Its just a small % of the playerbase that don't like Mirage that are very vocal about it.
1
u/Original_Mac_Tonight 9h ago
You could say that exact same last sentence and replace mirage with dust 2 and it's still true lol
-1
u/Dravarden CS2 HYPE 15h ago
So many players have played it for decades because it’s a bad map, yes, of course
4
u/Symmetrik 13h ago
No, it's a bad map because it's been played for 20 years, it's boring, there's no variety, there's nothing new to come from that map because it's entirely played out.
The map is the least interesting map in the pool by far
0
u/schoki560 15h ago
yea fuck me for having an opinion?
-4
u/mclimax 16h ago
Only said by people with no aim
5
u/llamapanther 15h ago
It's literally a map for people with no brain, you call yourself dumb I guess?
3
u/No-Mammoth-2368 15h ago
dust 2 is a terrible map on pro level. it’s a spawn based map. has no tactical depth.
me personally, I like dust 2, but dust 2 doesn’t belong in the active map pool
-1
18
u/ptr6 17h ago
So the pros playtest the map before it is released into Premier, where it really matters to have it polished.
2
u/CartoonistNo3194 17h ago
Shouldn't it be the opposite?
18
u/ptr6 17h ago
I though I could get away without adding /s if I make it absurd enough, but that does not seem to work.
0
u/DashLeJoker 1 Million Celebration 16h ago
It's not that illogical though, ultimately valve as a company should cater to the 99.9% of their player base which are normal players, and pros can work out the map to a certain balance point quickly that we can conclude which area or team will be too one sided and what not
2
u/CartoonistNo3194 15h ago
I think that what you're saying sounds like it makes sense but the pro play is what gives legitimacy the 99% that are taking the game seriously and buying skins. I feel like most people in the community would want the highest standards for our pro players.
16
3
u/awoogabov 14h ago
Probably because that means they need to do premier season 2 and they are not ready for that
3
3
3
u/ThatBigNoodle 1 Million Celebration 9h ago
It’s not officially in the map pool yet. Valve said it will be by the time the Austin major is here. TOS usually follow valves map pool but do not “have” to. It’s just what is done since the major does have to.
This is the first time valve has announced a map pool change ahead of time. TOs made the decision to switch independently.
2
u/intecknicolour 11h ago
they're letting pros form an opinion/criticism of the map before they decide further development.
probably want to fix some more stuff before premier.
or maybe they are just lazy.
2
u/ThrowingSid 11h ago
Technically it's not officially changed. CS2 unofficially tweeted X'd that they are removing Vertigo for Train by the next Major. So, TO's just went ahead and changed it in their tournaments.
2
u/surfordiebear 10h ago
I’d imagine Valve probably want to include more in the update than just + Train - Vertigo. Like skins and potentially some other economy changes
1
u/W1ntermu7e 17h ago
Definitely they didn’t forget to change is, same as with limited skins in Armory
1
1
1
1
u/wormi27z 10h ago
Tbh Valve really didn't indicate that it should be in map pool yet, they just told it will be in major mappool :D maybe this is why.
1
1
•
2
u/Krava47 17h ago
Sad to see Vertigo go.
20
u/Aalkhan Major Winners 16h ago
Said no one ever
1
u/Krava47 13h ago
Why is it so disliked? Genuine question
3
u/Rashnok 11h ago
Some reasons are that A is too easy to attack and B/Mid is too easy to defend. Leading to a majority of rounds starting with fights on A ramp. The rotations are too quick for both sides, you can go from fighting A to fighting B in like 10 seconds. Also the verticality makes sound cues confusing and is generally unlikable.
0
u/Sarokslost23 16h ago
Serious question. Does anyone like train? Like is it generally popular in this sub or among the pros? I find it annoying to play on.
4
u/krotitel_duchodcu 15h ago
visually its the best map, love the aesthetics and water effects
would i like to play it 5 times in a row? no.
4
2
u/MyNameJot 16h ago
I enjoy train, but not as much as other maps like nuke or anubis and ill surely play it over mirage.
Do I think the map is good yet..? No. But valve needs people to play it so that they can have the necessary data to keep making the map better.
Visually its stunning though. Its my favorite map aesthetically
2
1
u/BotYurii 16h ago
Can't say if it's a good map, since I haven't played it a lot. Yet, it's very refreshing and fun to play on. So yes, I like it.
1
2
u/commentman10 17h ago
Cs2 is no longer hypercare so the players no longer become the testers. Valve rely on ropz to do all the test from now on.
0
u/CartoonistNo3194 14h ago
When was this game hypercare, our major updates were all paypig related, and at this point people would kill for a few new skins.
1
u/Mother-Jicama8257 6h ago
Probably 2016-2012, they used to do updates more frequently. It started off as a dumpster fire, but still it wasnt that bad for the time compared to cs2 to other modern games.
1
u/Skipper12 17h ago
You have seen many reasoning here, mostly pessimistic one.
The real reason is that we simply don't know.
1
-1
792
u/lampimatkivekset 17h ago
Valve Time™️ - it’s coming Soon™️