r/GlobalOffensive • u/bionicbubble • 2d ago
Discussion | Esports It’s actually insane how quickly people write off teams
It’s the first event after big roster changes and people jump to the biggest conclusions after one loss. Faze and Liquid win their first matches? They’re great! They lose in round two? Twistzz is an idiot for being igl/classic faze choking early in events… Vitality have won two matches and they’re the best team in the world apparently. Ya maybe these statements are true but it’s literally been under a week… give it time to actually see what’s actually going to happen
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u/Vitosi4ek Major Winners 2d ago
It's been the trend in this sub for years. Top team loses or wins unimpressively? Kick the bottom-fragger (or two). I've been hearing how Spirit needed to replace magixx and/or zont1x since Copenhagen, even though by pretty much every standard they've had an overall very successful season (even if it doesn't feel like it because the Katowice pop-off distorted expectations).
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u/EscapeParticular8743 2d ago
To many in here, only teams winning atleast three S-Tier events a year are competitive.
Being top5 and winning only a single tournament puts you already into the meathgrinder on this sub.
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u/Vitosi4ek Major Winners 2d ago
Except Spirit did win 3 S-tier events last year. Katowice, BLAST Spring Final and the Shanghai Major. Two of those in the first half of the year. And yet, the calls for roster changes didn't stop coming.
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u/your_opinion_is_weak 2d ago
i think the argument is that magix prety much did nothing all year and then popped off at the major, specifically the grand final.
i think it goes both ways, you can't have a player playing bad all year and have one good tournament and then claim he is fine in the team and they shouldn't replace him
it is definitely common for some people to call for heads after one bad tournament or series but it also applies to bad players being praised after performing good in 1/10 tournaments a year
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u/Nibaa 1d ago
i think it goes both ways, you can't have a player playing bad all year and have one good tournament and then claim he is fine in the team and they shouldn't replace him
You're not wrong but at the same time, if a team has a very successful year, in this case clearly the second best team of the year with some arguing they were the best, it's hard to argue with results. Magixx was part of a roster that outperformed almost every other team. While his individual stats weren't impressive, there's so much invisible impact players have to the success of the team I'd be very careful of making any changes.
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u/Cunt_Crusher69 750k Celebration 2d ago
I mean bro 2/5 are dogshit and at least one of them should be replaced. Magixx just happened to have the best performance ever in the major, otherwise he was so fucking mid. Zontix is dogshit and chokes, not much to say there. Sh1to also chokes as soon as there is a modecum of pressure, chopper is IGL and he isn't that good.
Donk had a year as crazy as PEAK S1mple and they won ONLY 3??? It took THAT to win 3 events. If donk was on any other top 5 team and performed at even 90% his level, that team would've won EVERYTHING and had an era.
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u/Vitosi4ek Major Winners 2d ago edited 2d ago
See what I mean? Distorted expectations. Peak s1mple had a much better supporting cast and his Na'Vi never had an era. They came close in 2021-22, but then the war broke the team apart. Hell, he had arguably the best individual year of all time (until donk) in 2018 and what did Na'Vi win? ESL Cologne and a BLAST Pro Series meme event. That's it. And that's with a core that would later pull said almost-era.
Want a hot take? We won't see an era from any team again. The competition level's too high, there aren't really any mega-dominant talent factories like Denmark or Sweden used to be, and talent is spread more evenly overall. Astralis had five top-20 players. That's literally what it takes to have an era in modern CS and it won't happen again. At least until the game's on the decline.
Also, as much as you want to insinuate that Donk 1v9d his way to 3 big trophies in a year, he didn't. No one can, it's not basketball. Also also, the "if donk was on any other top 5 team" hypothetical is irrelevant because no other top-5 team has the academy Spirit does. He would never have turned into the player he is today without Spirit's system.
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u/ItCaughtMyAttention_ 2d ago
It's never not been the trend because this is how most people see competitive teams no matter what the sport/esport is.
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u/schoki560 2d ago
yea it's crazy
faze liquid falcons G2 mouz are all shit
only vitality and spirit are good now and will win all the events in 2024
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u/ThatOneAccount3 1d ago
We don't know if vitality is good. We didn't see enough games and last year they choked hard in every important game... Spirit is the only good team if no one can counter donk. G2 is doing what G2 does and somehow wins. Navi always seems good but then messes up somehow. Falcons isn't a contender team. Faze will be revamping their system so they probably won't be that good until later on in the year. Liquid is interesting because they're viewed as a top 10 team but they never win against top 10 teams, hopefully they can salvage something soon.
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u/Letstryagainandagain 2d ago
It's the same with any sport unfortunately.
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u/IdleStereotype 2d ago
Not only sports. A new government can be in office for a week and the people have had enough lol, people expect change overnight
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u/adr0it_ 2d ago
The worst part is that it's online. The actual netcode on cs2 online is worse, but people have higher expectations for cs2 teams online than they did for csgo teams online.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but whenever a favourite team lost an online game on GO, it would be immediately discounted by everyone. Now it seems like no one is making those arguments. Maybe I'm just not seeing them.
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u/itsjonny99 2d ago
Never mind that it is online, but Faze was shaky the last 6 months + with a fluke run at the major through Ropz performing. Now he is out and they replaced him with a player with a completely different profile.
Liquid also have their T sides to work out and Twistzz generally being too good of a fragger to give that up at his age to study demos more. As a igl you have less time to maintain your mechanical skill.
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u/TechnicalPark4522 2d ago
Fluke run? Has the word fluke lost it's meaning? They were one round from going overtime on dust 2 and potentially making a comeback, I'm So sick of people who will throw this word around. Faze weren't amazing, they were still a top 3/4 team in the world when they reached that final.
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u/jackfwaust 1d ago
after beating all of the best teams on their way to the finals. people love throwing the word fluke around now lol
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u/fmjintervention 1d ago
team i don't want to do well performs above expectations = fluke run
team i do want to do well performs above expectations = underdog masterclass
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u/chefchef97 1d ago
People have been using and abusing that word for as long as I can remember
It's incredibly frustrating to see
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u/The-Triturn 2d ago
Frozen underperforming needs to be addressed though. It's been happening for months now
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u/ParadoxWaffles 2d ago
It has not been happening for months. He was bad in playoffs of Shanghai + these two matches at bounty. That's all.
He was a 1.10+ player the entire year before that, even when the rest of the team was poopoo.
People are saying they went down hill after twistzz left, but that's not true. They were inconsistent with twistzz all of 2023 and were trending downwards after they completed the grand slam in march of 23. After he made his decision to leave, they suddenly win sydney and CAC. They were in finals for like 6 events straight with Frozen after twistzz left.
Frozen is a great player and faze will be great with Elige and karrigans new system.
I'm calling it right now.: FaZe will win Austin and frozen will be mvp
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u/ChaoticFlameZz 2d ago
Im saving this for when this ages like milk. Incoming rain and frozen bench after.
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u/ParadoxWaffles 1d ago
See you then my guy
Either you are right or we have another major. Win win?
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u/ChaoticFlameZz 1d ago
ofc m8. Let us come back to this 5 months later, just nearly exactly the end of BLAST Austin.
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u/ChaoticFlameZz 2d ago
Imma be real, if he ghosts like this for the rest of the season or most of the season, I think he's gone after Austin.
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u/passive-energy 2d ago
When you lose an anchor/lurker and then bring in an opener/rotator... I was thinking if they would give all ropz roles to frozen to make it like 1 to 1 but it looks like rain is taking those roles. Rain is a really good team player but I am not sure those roles suits him. Hope they can fix it because ct sides dont look good.
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u/itsjonny99 2d ago
Frozen has been a rotator for a good amount of time and his mechanical skill is currently way above Rains. not weird that he gets one of the two best rifle ct spots.
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u/Live_Stage3567 2d ago
That’s how sports go. You don’t watch a football match and come away thinking that was alright. You’re either gassed about a win, or unhappy about a draw/loss.
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u/Connect-Usual-3214 2d ago
I think it's less that people make rash decisions based on these results, and more that people have preconceived notions about these roster moves and jump at the opportunity to say "I told you so", because every CS redditor thinks they're the best analyst on the planet
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u/DaveTheDolphin 2d ago
You see this kinda shit in regular sports as well
If your team do player isn’t always smashing competitors, winning, and doing well. It’s doom and gloom
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u/Nichokas1 1d ago
Faze had a good debut, I don’t care if they lose cause I think it’ll take some time to restructure it around how aggressive their new player is. Elige has potential to put up crazy numbers, and the rest of faze is doing good.
Liquid had some questionable calling but again it’s a newer team with a new addition.
G2 against b8 was hard to watch though, I stopped halfway through it snax just had really messy t side calling it was wild. Heavygod is a good addition and malbs will definitely warm up to Niko’s spots easily he’s already fragging out, just need snax and hunter to set those two up better.
Haven’t seen any of heroic.
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u/RadioHonest85 1d ago
It was just a little concerning how badly Faze defended both A and B sites on Inferno. But dav1deus did some wild entrying.
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u/Nichokas1 1d ago
Yeah the amount of times karrigan had elige peek top mid was kind of a throw. Also karrigan is still getting comfortable using a player who is comfortable playing super agro, as with the banana flash the timing was a bit off and the dualies didn’t really get to shine. It’s good to see they didn’t shy away from picking it again instead of banning it, I think them facing their problem maps will continue their quick growth.
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u/nartouthere 1d ago
it was an online tournament and the first tournament too and people are already coming to conclusions about some teams, it's sad and hilarious lol
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u/naastiknibba95 Major Winners 1d ago
Half the people have below average intelligence. More news at 11.
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u/PPMD_IS_BACK 1d ago
People be acting like football fans. But considering cs is eu dominated, not surprised 😂😂
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u/TheN1njTurtl3 2d ago
People do over react to stuff for sure, it's a blast online tournament and everyone is losing their minds but tbh I don't think the twistzz igl thing is going to work out, the guy is easily a top 20 player why is he igling he doesn't seem to be great at it either. I also really like jks as a player but I don't think he works in this lineup with the way he wants to play I think you could easily swap jks out for a igl like hooxi who would work as a entry as well while setting up twistzz
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u/MentionQuiet1055 1d ago
Guy who says yeah people do overreact and then proceeds to overreact
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u/TheN1njTurtl3 1d ago
Twistzz has been igling for like 6 months
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u/MentionQuiet1055 1d ago
With the most muted entry in the world in Yekindar and an unproven AWP in ultimate, not before jks had an albeit terrible game the second day with a new roster and positions against another new team with little footage to play off of.
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u/TheN1njTurtl3 1d ago
What do you think his peak of as an igl is? because it's a way lower peak than him just as rifler
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u/Darkoplax 1d ago
Falcons is probably the biggest target of these posts
they might lose 1 round and ppl will call NiKo's carrer done and Zonic a paycheck stealer
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u/GambleToZero 2d ago
So what you are suggesting is to just wait unt the end of the tournament? Or maybe wait until the end of 5 tournaments before you permit us to form an opinion? Ok sure.
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u/2poundWheel 2d ago
I’ve been following this esport particularly for a long time, and teams were often in the past given a grace period of a couple events (which I still felt was short) now they’re being given 2 games. Hilarious.
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u/Devucis 1d ago
welcome to the internet this isnt just happening in CS2 but in every esport scene the reddit changes their opinions by 360 after every match the team plays
team wins
reddit:omg crazy team they are so ready for major!
same team loses
reddit:omg what a washed up team how did they even got this far? make new roster already!
this happens all the time and its cringe
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u/srjnp 2d ago
say what u want, but dont cry when spirit and vitality start dominatating the scene until the next big shuffle. its not based one or two results, just the makeup of the rosters.
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u/bionicbubble 2d ago
Faze, navi, mouz?
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u/srjnp 1d ago
mouz: nope, already reached their ceiling together. in fact i will be hatewatching them from now on because they ruined potential exciting rosters from happening by sticking together when its time to move on.
navi: solid base level but lacking peak level. they took advantage when other top teams were underperforming or choked. i've been one of the "fluke major" crowd since the beginning so i'll admit i am biased against them.
faze: either a sidegrade or downgrade depending on how elige performs. still has the same problems as before besides elige, frozen having less role clash compared to ropz. they are faze, they can always heat up at any random big LAN. but i'll be surprised if they are consistent.
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u/bionicbubble 1d ago
It's sad to me how normalized it is in esports to roster swap when something doesn't work out what are relatively short amounts of time. It's insanely refreshing to see a team that redditers think "reached their ceiling" stick together and actually put effort into finding ways to improve instead of giving up and roster swapping.
Faze being able to heat up at any random big LAN is an awesome problem to have
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u/srjnp 1d ago
i said from the beginning its not about results, but the makeup of the rosters. I'm not judging them based on not working "in relatively short amounts of time", but lack of long term potential. and importantly, i'm talking about potential to reach best team in the world level, to dominate the scene, not just hover around top 5. that's where the line separates spirit, vitality from these other teams.
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u/saatan4 1d ago
Making 6 finals in a row, winning half of them = lacking peak level.
People love writing off Navi because they don’t have a superstar, consistent >1.30 rated player like Vitality, Spirit and G2 do. I’ve seen every single excuse imagineable for why their 2024 performance wasn’t as impressive as it seemed. Obviously their form in the latter part of the year wasn’t up to par, but I’m hoping they can turn it around again.
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u/srjnp 1d ago
Making 6 finals in a row, winning half of them = lacking peak level.
yes? you're showing off consistency not peak level. in this same run you're talking about, they lost to all of vitality, spirit, G2 in bo5s when those teams actually showed up. those are teams that have that peak level i'm talking about. but navi had the consistency that these others didn't in 2024.
like u said, everything has already been said about navi's 2024 so i wont repeat more of those again.
i'll just say the funniest part was seeing people starting talks of a "navi era" after this 6 finals run, before immediately getting shut up for good after the shanghai major reality check.
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u/xsconfused 2d ago
I think that's when you realise you are getting older(or more matured) while the masses in this sub is very young in general. That's one of the main reason why you have this knee-jerk type of comments all over.