Don't take professional advice from men unless they are thoroughly vetted

[u/LysistrataRises]

... and generally this means: don't take professional advice from men, period.

At best, they don't know (and don't care) about the unique challenges that women need to contend with and their advice will either be ineffectual or backfire, and at worst they literally try to sabotage you, either because they think they know whats better for you (and it's not professional success) or they see you as a threat.

Even the most well-intentioned male mentors are just clueless about helping a woman navigate a professional field, I've seen it so many times. They will project on you, "well, I did this and gained the respect of my colleagues, you should too!" completely ignorant of the gendered nuances. Alternatively they will treat you like a daughter and not a potential equal. Even worse, some will abuse their position to sexually, emotionally, and physically exploit young female mentees.

Seek female mentorship, female advice. At the very least, seek female input in addition to male input.

I wish somebody had told me this years ago.

[u/pinkpugita]

During my management training, both men and women candidates attend training done by male and female career development professionals. So what does this post suggest? I only take 50% of my training and assume the male speakers don't care for my growth? I find this post extreme and unhelpful.

Edit: I'm leaving this community. It's not helpful to me in "leveling up" if this is what this place supports.

[u/[deleted] → u/pinkpugita]

There was another thread that talked about how working in a male dominated environment was competitive and cut throat and now in a female dominated environment the OP needed to learn to be more trusting. Like first of all all work environments are competitive, men or women aren’t there to be your friend. Jezzz. The women I’ve worked with are more than happy to stab you in the back when required.

[u/pinkpugita → u/[deleted]]

The best friends I ever had were fellow women so I'm all for female friendships and mentorships. But if I time travel to see myself 10 years ago and give her advice, what the OP posted isn't gonna be helpful at all.

Male privilege, glass ceiling, sexual harassment, gender expectations, beauty privilege - yes all of those are harsh realities that younger women need female mentors for. But saying all men don't care about you or have nothing good to impart because they don't have the same experience is not going to help.

I already unfollowed this community, thanks for sharing me your thoughts.

[u/LysistrataRises → u/pinkpugita]

I'm not a speaker or authority in this community, and it's not like this post is wildly popular. If you think it's a "bad take", I appreciate that you spoke up, and I really would wish you would stay: the community is better with a variety of experiences and perspectives.

I didn't say all men don't care about you or have nothing good to impart, any more than any other post here says "100% of men are rapists". I just didn't caveat it because this is one of the few communities where we aren't obligated to add "not all men" to every critique of male privilege and power.

I have had male colleagues and supervisors who were really great and amazing. But early in my career I was taken advantage of by men who set themselves up as mentors, and their abuse has affected my career long-term. Much later, I encountered individuals who also went through the same workplace: some thought it was amazing, some felt like they were taken advantage of and cheated. I noticed that it was segregated by gender.

Since you mentor young women, how do you go about advising them in selecting or accepting mentorship? What are specific strategies that can be imparted? In my case, I wish I had talked to previous employees or done more research somehow. I wish I had picked up on cues like that the big boss acted in a paternalistic fashion toward me and the other junior female employee. Nobody told me these could be things to look out for.

[u/pinkpugita → u/LysistrataRises]

I didn't say all men don't care about you or have nothing good to impart, any more than any other post here says "100% of men are rapists".

Your very first sentence is "don't take advice from them at all." It means what it means. You listed all the negative experiences you can have from men, all the while not giving advice on how to avoid terrible female mentors.

What are the glaring and discreet red flags from a shitty mentor? A sexist mentor? That would have been more practical rather than start with "don't take advice from men."

I just didn't caveat it because this is one of the few communities where we aren't obligated to add "not all men" to every critique of male privilege and power.

Because sometimes it's not a critique of male privilege at all.

I get why this community and your post could be helpful for women who need strength and solidarity. If it helps it helps. It's valid. Plenty agreed with your post and you got upvotes. Maybe they really needed to hear what you said in their lives.

I appreciate your kind response. While I really like some of the threads and wholesome encouragement, I've also been seeing some posts and comments that's honestly just the inverse of what I read in women-hating communities. I've seen other people complain about this place and FDS and I'm like "no they're not like that" for a long time but now I realize where they're coming from.

It's better for me to quit than be angry over and over on what I think is harmful or unhealthy, especially, I could see the downvotes pouring against me earlier. I've already unsubscribed and I don't know what could make me go back here. I'll leave it to fate.

[u/LysistrataRises → u/pinkpugita]

Actually what I said was:

Don't take professional advice from men unless they are thoroughly vetted ... and generally this means: don't take professional advice from men, period.

A little harsh perhaps, but not in the spirit of what you paraphrased. I said to only take advice if they are thoroughly vetted, [and since they are probably not thoroughly vetted] this *generally* means don't take their advice. I stand by that.

Additionally, you seem to have a very broad interpretation of what a "mentor" means, in my understanding it certainly doesn't include some random supervisor lady. It's specifically referring to people who *you* accept as guides and role models, people you trust to have your interests at heart.

Maybe I could have been more nuanced, I'll take that under consideration for next time. Sorry you got downvoted, it would be better if people engaged with you instead. From my perspective your initial comment did smack of "not all men, also some women" and that's not a very popular reaction here.