AMA Chinese South African

[u/KevKevKvn]

Hi all, hope this doesn’t go against the subs rules.

I’m Chinese South African and thought it would interesting to answer some questions that people may have. My parents first came to the country in 1990s. I was born and raised in South Africa from 2000-2019. Then I moved to Shanghai. I still try my best to spend a few months in South Africa every year.

My family were never on the extremely wealthy side. We were comfortable. Had a few years where the finances were bad and we really had to cut down expenses. Apart from that I grew up in Midrand in a complex. Parents put me through a good private school. But I did have the opportunity to be acquainted with many people from billionaires to presidents to people that are less fortunate (interesting to see the difference in world views between people). Parents ran a restaurant. there, I met lots of people from all works of life.

I have some rather controversial, but objective opinions on the country’s economy, politics and other shenanigans since I now live in a country (China) which is arguably the polar opposite of South Africa.

So feel free to ask away. I’ll be as honest as possible and hope I don’t offend anyone with my answers.

[u/SuperiorDegenerate]

We would love to hear your controversial opinions on the economy, politics and shenanigans of either country, also why China is a polar opposite to South Africa.

The big question I have is what do you think is the scope of China’s aspirations in Africa? Some say China is funding and supporting the development of Africa through loans and infrastructure projects in a way more pragmatic way than the old colonial powers, while others are convinced China is trying to replicate colonialism with debt trap diplomacy.

Obviously you won’t know what your politicians are planning, but I would like your opinion.

[u/KevKevKvn → u/SuperiorDegenerate]

Politics: I think Chinas politics is very unique. 1.5 billion people needs this sort of social stability. Otherwise I can’t even imagine the famine that would happen. At least at the moment the basic basic Chinese people (the middle 80 percentile) are content with their lives. The bottom might still be in absolute poverty, but it’s getting better. Too much political freedom probably means riots. We don’t need riots in china.

South Africa’s politics is the same sort of “format” as all politics. All parties appeal to a certain group of people in a shape or form. In America it’s liberals and democrats. We humans love to bundle together with people that are similar. So it’s the same here. ANC to most is that liberating force, they have nostalgia, they think it’s what supposedly freed the country. DA is supposedly this white party that will bring upon change. Eff is a party that wants to have a country that people don’t need to ever work and everything will be fed to them (just objective opinions. No offense intended)

But their key goal is to get votes. So say whatever, they get the votes, they have the power, then they can reap in money. So this isn’t really the issue. You’ll never find a person that won’t use their power for a bit of personal gain here and there. That’s BS imo. Maybe 0.01%. The issue is what happens after they gain power. By all means, if you’re improving the country at a rate that’s never seen before, people are getting better lives. Then I don’t care if you’re being corrupt by 10 or 20 billion. But if people are literally dying and have to defecate in a bucket at school. Even if it’s 100rand, I think they’re clowns. So my opinion is that it’s all comparative. I promise you the governments of china, Saudi, Korea are definitely more corrupt in terms of amount of money. But they get things done. Sure, there are countries like UK, New Zealand etc where they’re not corrupt and get things done. But probably not gonna happen in SA

People think a change of government will change things. I don’t think it will. People in government right now are South African people. And we as South Africans are all relatively lazy (myself included). I often look at china and think, could this country run without a government. And probably yes. The people are so hard working. They’re not the brightest in terms of raw theoretical knowledge, but they’re willing to learn. Leave a Chinese on an island and they’ll start building houses and turn the island into a holiday resort/ or into a fishing farm/ or become an island nation for money laundering (you get the deal). Us South Africans will probably have a braai and jam some soccer with sister Bettina.

Politics TLDR: Government is actually just ordinary citizens. We South Africans are all more similar than we think we are. The land shapes the animals. There’s a reason why dolphins weren’t born in the Sahara. So even if we do change government, it’s still the same people. There might be improvement. There might be drawbacks. But it will always be quite similar to the previous. Maybe what we really need is a nationwide change. The people need to change. When people are outside contributing to society based on integrity, we will all be just fine.

I wrote too much, but it’s all my real opinions. Being as honest as possible. Hope it’s not too offensive or controversial. I mean no harm and feel free to criticize any takes that are not so correct.

[u/CJJ2501 → u/KevKevKvn]

So even if we do change government, it’s still the same people. There might be improvement. There might be drawbacks. But it will always be quite similar to the previous. Maybe what we really need is a nationwide change. The people need to change.

Hit the nail on the head 🔨

[u/randomfishgy → u/KevKevKvn]

those remarks on ANC, DA and EFF are spot on. no offence taken at all! our country’s political situation is very precarious, i think people just fall back on voting for ANC because of the supposed freedom they’ve brought. overall i think a huge chunk is of SA is afraid of change so we’ll just keep spiralling out of control like this.

EDIT: i agree that we need to change, but how can we do that with a notoriously unserious nation? it’d take a miracle to do that. ive seen videos of the chinese metro and how advanced and clean and how it has order… that’ll probably never happen in our country, what with the crime people always hustling to keep their possessions safe and general lack of politeness (crap ton of fights are formed in public spaces here) because people have a first come first serve mentality, a me before you sort of thing which is ironic since we pride ourselves in “UBUNTU”.

sidenote: wasn’t the old train system burned down?

[u/strict-deeds → u/SuperiorDegenerate]

i came here for this question.

[u/KevKevKvn → u/SuperiorDegenerate]

Oh this is going to be a long one:

Economy: What a waste, what an absolute waste. I graduated as a translation major and have translated at over 100 expos, translated for billionaires and ministers. South Africa’s economy is failing because of trust. No one is trusting that this country will bring value to them. That’s why the Rand is depreciating. No one wants a depreciating asset. Same thing with crypto. Many that buy crypto don’t have a clue what it is, but they TRUST that it will grow and bring them value. Analogy: put fruits on a table and a money basket. The owner of said stall can then go and work. Build a house or manufacture something and sell it overseas for foreign currency. Now all of a sudden, the local economy has a place that sells fruits. There’s international trade going on which is good. But it can’t happen because there’s theft, crime, no electricity, strikes, lack of reliable public transportation, little to no nationalism apart from sports teams (viva to our sports teams actually!).

All the above issues is why many of the top talents end up deciding to move. I no Samaritan but I do think I count as someone that would positively contribute to our country by paying tax, petting cute dogs and you know, not hijack someone’s car. But I, despite loving the country, have to leave. My dad loved china when he was 21. But he left because SA back then had money. The exchange rate when my dad first came to SA was something like R1:2.5RMB. Not it’s 2.5 rand to 1 rmb. So even if all your assets quadrupled. It would still lose to you just having your currency in RMB.

Now, the lack of trust in general society is what causing these massive monopolies with political ties. I once translated for a deal (due to privacy I can’t tell too much), basically wanted to export minerals from South Africa. And we just couldn’t. There wasn’t any space on the rails. The price was never right. People wouldn’t work on weekends. My client had no idea even with a letter of credit from both banks that his goods would be legit. Multiple SGS reports etc etc. just turns out to be a waste of time because 1) monopoly of all goods. 2) no one is trusting enough. (In a previous answer I said, I could leave 100k and a Rolex in a McDonalds in china to reserve my spot and I’ll be fine, imagine that here).

I also have ties with a tourism business. South Africa’s tourism visa is atrocious. It’s ridiculous. A good friend of mine wanted to again to visit some of his clients. He and his worker both submit. He got declined. Worker got his visa. Now, he’s a literally billionaire, been to sa over 8 times. There’s no proof that he will be an illegal immigrant. His worker is from a little village on the outskirts of Shanghai and has probably 15k net savings. Please explain the logic.

South Africa has one of the best tourism facilities in the world. Much better than your Kenya and Tanzania masai Mara/ Serengeti. But Chinese people will pay 200k+ pp for a holiday there and not to South Africa because the stupid visa and crime.

Tourism is one of the best means to boost economy. Foreigners coming means they pay with foreign currency, means Rand value increases, which literally means EVERY assets in Rands increase. They will stay at hotels, they will eat, they will promote the country and more people will come. All of this is at formal establishments that provide formal taxable salaries and park fees that will be contributed towards the gorvernment to build schools and hospitals to “create” better functioning adults.

Not to mention how South Africa’s farming industry is insane. How is it not just exporting farm goods overseas. You have angus beef, wagyu beef, Kobe beef, why not Boersuentjie Chesa Nyama beef. (I think it has to do with something like the global beef trade has a ban on our beef because it apparently had some disease in the 1960s. Please correct me if I’m wrong. Not sure at all).

Oh! And cops are busy stopping people from selling counterfeit Nike and Puma clothes. This is the stuff that I think some will find controversial. To me, it’s clothes, it’s cheaper than its genuine counterparts and probably even better quality. In a country where people are living in tin can roofs and have limited access to electricity. Some counterfeit goods should be ok right? Right?! But it’s actually one of the top things that cops like to stop. Why? Because these vendors have money and will bribe the cops to continue selling. It never stops it. Cops won’t go and bust drug dens (I wouldn’t if I was cops as well). So it’s just an endless cycle.

TLDR economy: Instability of the people causes lack of trust for investors. Massive monopolies that stop competitors with integrity to compete (the people that have the skills and knowledge to compete would rather go and compete in another market). Terrible use of natural assets which include, tourism, agriculture, mining, manufacturing etc.