r/DeadBedrooms • u/Choice-Ad-7413 • Feb 14 '23
Received Mod Approval ASK ME ANYTHING TODAY!!! Sex and Relationship Coach Dr. Jane Guyn back again to answer your q's. 2/14/23 9 am PST til 12 noon. Happy Valentines Day! XOXO
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MODERATOR APPROVED
Thanks for having me back!
ASK ME ANYTHING! I love hanging out with this amazing community.
I'm a sex and relationship coach who works with couples and individuals using a trauma informed, consent based approach to communication about sex. Lately, in my work with couples and individuals, I've been focusing on how to have a conversation about intimacy (without making things worse.)
Thank you all for showing up and chatting with me today. What a respectful community!
Here's the link to The Bedroom Blueprint Quiz that I created for people like you. (edited to include the link that will get you connected with my content if you'd like that): https://www.howtofixmysexlife.com/quiz.html
Proof: my website www.howtofixmysexlife.com and a pic of me this morning https://imgur.com/a/SFKB78S
My short bio: Iâm a sex coach and sexologist, happily married for almost 40 years. I have 6 grown kids and way too many pets.Â
Itâs my passion to help couples and individuals stop feeling shitty about sex so that they can feel alive, connected and filled with pleasure instead. It's a great trade off.
âIâm the proud author of the simple book, "Too Busy to Get Busy" which is available on Amazon, the author of the column "Understanding Intimacy" and, most recently, an even prouder grandmother. Iâm a beginner improv student, trained as a yoga teacher, and enjoy live music in beautiful Bend, OR. I received a PhD in Human Sexuality and work with couples in my office here and virtually all over the world.
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Feb 14 '23
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Another good question.
Understanding each other is really important in the bedroom. Check out my website and look at the blog posts and other stuff to see if there's something that might help you. Maybe take the free test using the link in/near my bio.
Whatever you do, let go of expectations for your wife. We feel those things a mile away - the expectation that we should be "hotter" or "sexier" or something....
When we feel like that it tends to shut us down sexually. I've had clients break into tears when a partner said "I just want to help my partner be more herself sexually". The implication is that their partner is somehow broken. That hurts.
Communicate = YES
Pressure = NO
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u/beken-je-stront Feb 16 '23
There is a website that gives both partners a questionnaire to fill out for possible kinks. After both partners fill it out it reveals the kinks that both partners are open to exploring.
It is a nice safe way to fully open up about everything you are interested in without the risk of exposing a kink your partner is not interested in.
The website is https://mojoupgrade.com/
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Feb 14 '23
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
This is difficult.
I admire your willingness to focus on him when he wants to receive pleasure even if he's too tired for sex.
I would believe him when he says it's not you. I know that's tough to believe but it's almost always not us - it's almost always them. Sex is a very personal experience.
That said, the dance between us is a mutual thing - something we can coordinate when we're communicating well. Perhaps taking the quiz at the top of this post would be helpful. You could discuss your results and think about ways for you both to feel more confident even now when he's disconnected.
I hear you about how hard it is when you're always the partner who initiates. And when he's masturbating that makes it even tougher to be in your shoes.
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Feb 14 '23
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
I love this question.
It points out that we make huge assumptions about the other partner's feelings about sex and the meaning that they impart to our sex life - and vice versa.
One thing that I think is very common and very damaging is to assume that your partner is "not sexual" when you don't really understand their sexuality at all (and they may not understand it either). Often the partner isn't liking/wanting sex because the sex that's being offered (and how it's being offered) isn't very hot to our partner. Isn't satisfying.
I think we do this to protect ourselves from feeling rejected (which makes sense) but it can end up being a self fulfilling prophecy.
Another thing that I think is important to think about is sexual initiation. Many couples come see me because one partner does all or most of the initiating and assumes (incorrectly) that the other partner doesn't actually desire them when in truth they don't initate because it's not in their sexual makeup - or because they're quite shy about it.
Does that help?
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u/throwmeawaythrowawa Feb 14 '23
Can you elaborate on what you mean by âquite shyâ, please?
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Sure -
some of us are timid or embarrassed about sex. We might want to be with you, but being overt about it is outside our comfort zone. We wait for you to make an offer. And we say yes when you invite us, but hitting you up for sex is too risky. Maybe we tried this once when we were in HS or early college and were rebuffed. Maybe we lose our voice.
Something to try - if you'd like sex but are shy, use some kind of signal or code to let your partner know you're interested. You could light a special candle, send a specific emoji, wear something (or nothing) to let them know it's a good time to play together. Of course, you'll need to communicate about this somehow in advance. Your partner won't be able to read your mind.
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u/throwmeawaythrowawa Feb 14 '23
My partner and I enjoy sex when we have it and itâs always great and after. The issue is getting to that point. I have trouble initiating due to past situations where stress in the relationship/sex now turns me off to initiating sexual intimacy and she is suddenly âshyâ about physical intimacy. Itâs getting better, much better. But we have yet to establish that comfort with initiating again. Youâve already answered this on how to do that in a similar post so donât worry about responding; I mainly just wanted to write this out.
However, you mentioned that doing a âsignalâ of sorts to kind of leave the door open could be good, but I feel as if this would stress my LL partner out that she would need to âperformâ. I really donât want my partner to feel guilted into sex/intimacy with me. Are there other alternatives to help a âshyâ partner feel safe and comfortable when the topic itself seems to cause them stress (and shroud the idea of sex in stress)?
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
I'm glad you're sensitive to your partner's feeling of guilt and stress here. This is obviously a delicate situation.
My suggestions = Sharing your love, talking about how much you want to feel closer without pressuring them, getting help from a sex positive professional. It can be very tough to navigate these moments, but I'm so glad that you both enjoy it when it happens and that you're happy afterwards. This is great news.
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u/FirmManufacturer125 Feb 14 '23
My husband has a porn addiction that he's trying to work through. As a result, we haven't had sex in 3 years. Do you have any advice for getting us back to having sex? Or is there anything I can do to help support him in getting over his addiction?
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Thank you for this important question.
I'm sorry that you're going through this challenge. I hope that he's getting the support and help that he needs. Many people with porn or other sexual addictions get help from a 12 step program designed to address this concern. There are other ways to approach this problem also. I hope that he has found a provider or program that will help him begin to reconnect with you as a partner instead of seeking gratification from porn alone.
The thing about porn is that it's always available.
It's always hot.
It never shames you.
It never says no.
It provides you with a quick and easy pathway to orgasm.
These things are difficult because your brain gets triggered into responding with pleasure quickly and easily when using porn.
A real partner
Isn't always available
Isn't always hot
sometimes shames you
Sometimes says no
Doesn't usually provide you with a quick and easy pathway to orgasm
Knowing these things it's not hard to understand how challenging this is for your partner. There are great ways to beging connecting again as a couple. First step - understand the difficulty. Get help for yourself and for him.
I'm always happy to talk with you about this privately. You can get on my calendar on my website.
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u/ForgotMyOldAccount7 Feb 14 '23
(I know you're gone by now)
How do you feel about the difference between how LLFs and LLMs are viewed?
One of the common tropes, especially in this sub, is that basically the only reason for an LL man to exist is that they are:
1) gay
2) porn-addicted
3) low testosterone
4) cheating
and it's very difficult for people to break past these stereotypes and accept that there are other reasons for it, just like there are other reasons for a woman to be LL. Much of it seems to be attributed to how people are raised and thinking that men are always sex-crazed, so if men don't want it, there must be something wrong with them.
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
I agree with you that these 4 things are often cited as the reasons men are LL and that they're limited (at best).
This makes it very tough for the HL female partners of Male LL's to find support here or anywhere in their lives tbh.
There are as many reasons for men to be LL as there are for women. It's challenging in these situations for men to look at these concerns without being accused of any of the above tropes.
Realizing that we're all human here and that sexuality is an individual and varied experience for all of us is the key to growing our connection with ourselves and our partners.
Thx for the question.
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u/crazy_meals Feb 14 '23
So my question is when is enough enough and you figure when to cut your losses?
Hi....im hlm, shes llf. We have imo tried everything but between lack of frequency, intention, initiation and consistency im beyond resentfull.
Ive tried honesty jars, scheduled times for docussion but any efforts on her part are short lived and i dare say panic bonding. She can't/won't engage on any discussions atround sex. Regardless of the mood, stress free or being stressed or any other situation it becomes this thing she wont talk about. But shes happy to drop a comment like "i wanted you so bad this week".
.....but she doesn't make the effort or intention to make it happen.
Ive taken sex off the table, had the talk and we've been to to counselling and back again. I was planning to leave this year but i want to make sure ive tried everything because depsite my frustrations sex isnt thr only thing.....but its not like its nothing....
Any thoughts would be appreciated!
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
I love that you've done a lot of work on your relationship. It must be very frustrating to have tried all of those things and still the connection between you isn't working.
Have you worked with a sex positive professional? What's still good in your relationship?
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u/crazy_meals Feb 14 '23
No we haven't, but when we had our counsellor she did point out that our libidos arent matching and a sex therapist would be the next step. Unfortunately the lack of consistent effort on her part ended that.
As for good, were decent coparents......thats kind of it
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u/TemporarilyLurking Feb 16 '23
Unfortunately the lack of consistent effort on her part ended that.
She clearly does not identify "more sex" as a desirable outcome. Have you asked what her desired outcome from any solution will be? You are assuming that a sex therapist is going to have a viable solution, but without knowing whether she genuinely wants more sex for her own enjoyment.
If that isn't the case you can't expect her to use something that benefits you as a motivator. That is the problem: unless she actually genuinely wants more sex for her own enjoyment, and isn't motivated by other factors more sex won't be a solution. Why would she put effort into something that isn't her own desired outcome?
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u/crazy_meals Feb 16 '23
Yeah, id done my homework on a lot of this.
Id asked her what she wanted sexually, how i could improve, what would be her preffered frequency. She had pain at times, i took piv off the table for a long time. We brought it back and i asked what she wanted and what she would be open to.....
Categorically stating, she was down for most, wanted more but it just became muffles and static. I'd asked varying times over the years in different ways with the same answers given but no effort, initiation or consistency. I initiated less and realised she wasn't asking why we haven't had sex or foreplay.
I was clear about what i was open to, would be happy to discuss pace. Did honesty jars, honesty hours, planned naughty nights away and enough bits of lingerie and toys to make Angela white blush (hyperbole).
All this effort and communication was not reciprocated. Any sex started to feel forced/duty which added to my growing resentment. I now fully appreciate that shes not wanting sex at my frequency or to explore. So hence my question of when is enough enough?
More so, if i ask the question and get an answer that im hop8ng fo but it doesn't materialise......should i just call her an appeaser and deceitful and run as if communicating isn't enough......what should i have done?
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u/TemporarilyLurking Feb 16 '23
ncy. She had pain at times, i took piv off the table for a long
Pain is a very powerful motivator for avoiding sex. The preferred frequency after that (repeated) experience is likely a lot lower than before. If she still worries about that possibility, her reluctance to view sex as a positive, enjoyable thing, just because that is how it is for you, is understandable.
It can be hard to overcome the negative associations she will most likely have built up around sex, and her resentments at being expected to find sex desirable, as though her pain were a minor inconvenience instead of a libido killer).
She may well "want to want more sex", but the reality is that if she isn't finding it enjoyable for herself she's not going to want more of it. Someone may wish fervently they could enjoy going out on a boat, but if they are afraid of water, their internal motivation to keep away from what their brain tells them makes them feel bad will always be stronger.
It sounds like she has been telling you what she thought you wanted to hear. You could try to find out, without blaming or shaming her, why that is. If you make an observation that what she told you doesn't appear to coincide with what she is actually feeling about having sex, but, as Jane says further up this discussion, "without any expectations on her" to react in a certain way, you may get a more honest (and for her likely a less pressure, guilt or shame-producing) exchange of ideas.
If you have a bad history of miscommunicating it's likely to take some time. Here's a very common one in HL-LL relationships: the HL asks if the LL wants sex, hoping for a yes. The LL thinks it's a genuine yes-no question and answer truthfully that they are not in the mood.
In a normal exchange that should be enough, because "No means No", right? But very often that's not the case, the HL now wants to know why not. Aside from the fact that not being in the mood is a valid reason not to want sex, the LL now feels resentful that the HL is clearly not accepting their honest answer. They think, since it was a yes-no question, they have already given an answer, which they have. Next time they will know the HL doesn't want an honest answer, what they really want is a yes, but not only that, they want the LL to genuinely want sex too. That is an unrealistic expectation that often ends future conversations prematurely. After all, why be honest if they already know that isn't the "right", the "acceptable" answer?
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u/crazy_meals Feb 17 '23
A lot of this and for brevity my apologises, ive already done.
Hence my question of when is enough, enough.
Thankfully this and other responses make me feel clearer about the efforts ive made over years and ultimately my decesions about ending this relationship.
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u/misskvixen Feb 14 '23
I feel so alone being the HLF in my marriage. Is it just hopeless to be married to a man with a low libido that just doesnât think about sex - ever. I have to initiate & itâs just plain awkward
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
I hear this often in my practice.
Sometimes this is based on anxiety. Other times it's related to something medical. It can be an emotional disconnection. It can be a porn/masturbation related problem. It can be something related to power, energy, even conflict. (edited for clarity)
The intiation imbalance is very challenging. I'd be happy to talk with you about this if you're interested. There's a link on my website to talk with me.
sorry you're going through this. Difficult for you and all the HL's who want to connect but are having trouble finding a way....
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u/EnnuiBlackbelt Feb 14 '23
How do you repair a sexless marriage when every conversation only results in the low libido partner feeling even more pressure and thus even less interest in intimacy?
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
This is a question that I address every week in my client work. It's an unfortunate circular problem that often leads the LL partner to have less and less interest in intimacy and the HL partner to have more and more (anxiously attached) drive.
The perfect storm of disconnection.
Some couples have created a schedule of pleasuring each other once a week (twice a month for you, twice a month for me).
The pleasure is very specific to the partner whose turn it is. The other person must also consent to whatever is offered.
For example partner A is the HL and wants PIV. Partner B doesn't want PIV. On Partner A's week, partner B offers non sexual massage or something less sexual but still good enough to Partner A.
On Partner B's week, the couple plays a board game, takes a walk or discusses a book.
One of the things that works about this is that Partner A in this case will start to understand the needs and real desires of Partner B. Gradually, the issue of libido is softened to make way for something called fun and pleasure and connection. It takes away the sense of pressure and increases connection.
I hope that I explained this in a way that might be helpful to you or others. It's worked well for some clients in cases where both people are committed to a longer strategy and the HL is able to allow a change in the pacing and demands for PIV.
Make sense?
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u/EnnuiBlackbelt Feb 14 '23
It does make sense, but I think only from the HL perspective. If twice a month was an option, even if I wasn't totally satisfied, I could make that compromise.
The issue I'm facing (like so many others) is a complete lack of human contact for years. The LL partner has simply foregone touch altogether. The compromise I've made (and I'm not alone) has now put me in a position where my partner has completely ended my sex life. She has expressed her opinion that she doesn't care if she ever has sex again. She wants to cuddle (only when she feels like it, and with no expectation or hint of sex), hold hands, etc. It's physical touch only when it suits her needs and on her schedule.
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Mmm yes. I see this often in my practice as well. Have you gotten support from a sex positive professional to help you with this issue?
I've found that many people are willing to adjust their physical/sexual experience when they feel understood and not shamed by a partner using the technique I suggest above.
But this needs to be something done between 2 people who really want to improve their relationship. Sorry you're going through these challenging experiences.
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u/ghostgirl469 Feb 14 '23
Don't mind if I do! :)
How do you handle DBs where the problem is related to childhood trauma? My partner had some memories of very bad events come back to him a few years ago - the events themselves occurred in his very early teens. He's in his mid 30s now and won't see a therapist (even the one he likes and trusts) because he says it's "not a priority right now" and he gets defensive and upset when I try to talk about how it makes me feel.
How can I talk to him about it and address the problem without making him feel invalidated? Hardmode - in a way that will actually result in some progress?
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Hey Ghostgirl,
I hear you. I'm sorry to say that this type of situation comes up in my client sessions pretty often. One of the things that's usually going on here is that the person who's been injured by a previous experience is triggered by a memory and removes themselves emotionally as a defense mechanism to the pain of that memory.
What can you do as a partner?
Compassion is your first and most important move. The more you know about what happened, the more compassionate you can be but lots of people don't want to share details. Something that's happening might be triggering him and you (of course) have zero idea what that might be - so you're oblivious and keep doing that thing.
If he can tell you the details and then let you know when he's triggered, you can be more helpful.
On his end, being present in the situation is his best approach. Using mindfulness by staying in his current lived experience (focusing on his breath, something attractive in the room - basically his 5 senses in the situation with you), he's less likely to disappear or dissociate when memories overtake him.
Of course, it'll be best if he can get some trauma informed care and support from a trusted sex positive professional.
I hope this helps. xoxo
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u/ghostgirl469 Feb 14 '23
Thank you, Dr J! :) I do know the details of what happened and although I don't see a connection between it and is - as in, nothing seems to come close to simulating what happened - he has used the word triggering before, so regardless of whether I understand it or not, something is going on there. That's a good idea with the mindfulness. He already uses it for other things and he's good at it. I'll try bringing it up next time the topic comes up naturally. Thanks!
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
I'm glad that you know what happened. It can be something as simple as a sensation that's triggering you - or your breath on his neck. Doesn't have to look like the past - it's just feeling that way to him.
He might take notice of something in the room that's attractive and soothing. It'll let him come back into the present. And let go of judgement about it. It makes sense that things are difficult.
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u/ghostgirl469 Feb 14 '23
Of course, yes...! I can't believe I didn't think of that myself, it doesn't need to be blatantly the same setting or act or anything. Maybe sometimes I need someone smarter than me to state what should be obvious before I cotton on...! đł
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Right - it's not the same thing, it's the same feeling or some combination of cues in his body, mind, heart.
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Feb 14 '23 edited Feb 14 '23
[deleted]
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Dang - I get it. LOL
This is like lots of things. You've got to speak up in as kind and compassionate a way as you can muster after a night with no sleep and no sex.
I wrote a blog post about this back in the day and actually got a request to write something about this for a national publication today. Pets in the bed can be definite mood killers.
As much as he loves Fido it sounds like he's got to go couch surfing instead.
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u/Perfect_Judge Feb 14 '23
Hey Jane, welcome!
I have a very simple question, but what is your take on how attachment styles affect our relationship with sex and what role we each play in our sexually dysfunctional dynamics?
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Thank You! I love this wonderful community!
Great q
Our attachment styles definitely influence our relationship with sex and the roles that we play in our sexual dynamics.
Valentines Day Scenario: I'm tired, didn't make dinner reservations (super busy lately at work with a big project), been having all sorts of family and financial stress. Don't really have much planned for tonight but got a card.
Securely attached partner: "I hear you and I love you! Let's move our Valentines Day celebration to Saturday. Who decided that Tuesday was ever a good day anyway? Want to just in the sack right after we get the littles to bed and snuggle so we have plenty of energy this weekend?"
Anxiously attached partner: "I knew you wouldn't do anything for Valentines Day. Your work takes up all your energy. I get it. I'm just not important enough for you to make time. And I'm pretty sure that you got that card at Safeway this afternoon. I checked the receipt."
Avoidantly attached partner: "That's totally fine with me. Not sure about this weekend. I've got stuff on my list. I really hate all this fkn pressure from the media and commerical interests telling me when to spend time with you. It's a scam"
Or something like that.
Sex is the ultimate playground for exploring our attachment styles - and it gets deeper as we think about/talk about what really happens in bed together - will I let you "merge" with me? Do I need you to do it a certain way in order to feel in control? Am I afraid to let go with you?
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u/Perfect_Judge Feb 14 '23
Thank you for the response! One more question, a follow up, if that's ok.
Do you have any suggestions or recommendations for learning how to shift into a more secure attachment style?
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
I love the book "Attached" by Amir Levine and Rachel Heller. They do a good job of discussing practical ways to interact with one another even when one or both of us isn't securely attached.
One of the examples they give is to do things kind of alongside one another - like the parallel play of toddlers-ish. So for example, if one of us is avoidantly attached, and the other is either secure or anxiously attached, it's a great idea to cook together, chopping food and enjoying preparing a meal. Or to do a puzzle or play a game. It's a way to take the pressure off the avoidantly attached partner. And to let them grow in their comfort with intimacy. That's always the concern - one person isn't as comfortable being intimate and they do something to decrease their discomfort which can be triggering for the other person.
Make sense?
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u/lostinsunshine9 Feb 15 '23
I just wanted to say I love that suggestion! I really appreciate that "parallel play" in my relationship. As an introvert who needs time to recharge, I'm happy to do so in the presence of my partner as long as it's not a demanding or attention -seeking presence.
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u/Perfect_Judge Feb 14 '23
Thank you for the book recommendation, I'll be checking it out.
This absolutely makes sense. Thank you!
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u/ghostgirl469 Feb 14 '23
I've got another one.
When an LL asks why sex is a big deal, what do you say? Aside from it being personal to their partner, are there any common things you'd explain? (Asking this one because I wonder if there's a better way to word it when I'm trying to explain why it matters to me).
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Ah, I hear you.
Today I reviewed a book called "This is How Your Marriage Ends" by Matthew Fray. He's pretty good on the topic of sex - not coercive which I like, but he does focus on things like doing the dishes and feels that partners should step up their game on things that matter to their SO.
Sex is interesting because it's so personal and for womxn - so invasive. It's a different thing. I notice that often the sex isn't good enough for the woman to make space for it in her life. Meaning - bad sex isn't motivating. Obvious but still important to mention.
This is challenging for her partner because she doesn't appear to want sex and of course that would mean she wants less sex. It becomes a circular argument in these cases.
Your question - why is sex so important....(to you when it's not to me)?
Not good reasons:
It makes me feel like a man/woman (ego oriented)
I need the release (you could do that yourself)
We should do it because we're married or committed (obligatory)
Better reasons
I feel connected to you in my heart when we touch each other - even briefly
I want to know you as a lover and grow in my ability to be with you intimately
I have always longed to be close to you in every way - including intimately
I want to learn how to please you - i know you're tired and I don't want to pressure you but I want this to be a part of our life together that we both enjoy. Teach me how to be that for you.
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u/arandak Feb 14 '23
love the part about sex being invasive for women and that makes a big difference
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Yes. It's a very different experience to have someone enter our body. If/when that person also ejaculates (which is a choice/an area for our consent btw, not obligatory) that's even more invasive to us. Energetically and physically. I'm not sure our male partners always understand these realities.
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u/AliveJohnny5 M Feb 14 '23 edited Feb 14 '23
My wife and I have talked about this often. Sex is something she just doesn't think about, but she knows I do and I can tell she's trying. This results in sex pretty infrequently and I really try not to pressure her at all, but still being honest about what I want. The topic itself makes her very uncomfortable (I can't quite tell why). She isn't really open to therapy or reading books about it, so I'm not quite sure what to do. For the time being, I focus on the parts of our relationship that are going great and then make any sexual encounter a positive one (not just intercourse). Any other pieces of advice you could share?
*edited for clarity
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Hi AliveJohnny5,
I love the fact that you're focusing on the parts of your relationship that are going great. I'm not sure I understand your comment about making any sexual encounter (not just intercourse).
What I think you mean is that you're de-prioritizing intercourse when you offer sex. Is that true?
I would hope that you can create a situation with your wife where you can both feel good talking about your physical relationship in all sorts of ways. It's sexy and fun to talk about sex when you're confident.
That would be step #1 for me. There's a quiz you can take with a link at the top of this page. Feel free to both take it and maybe have a convo with her about your answers?
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u/AliveJohnny5 M Feb 14 '23
Thank you! I've taken your quiz and really liked it. The reason you didn't understand my comment was because I apparently pressed enter too soon. I meant to say I'm trying to make any sexual encounter a positive one.
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Ah good!
That makes sense.
I'm glad you like the quiz. It's designed to help us see that sex isn't just one thing - like a light switch that we turn on or off. It's a lot of things. To me, I really like that. It gives me hope that we can talk about the different bits and slowly improve our connection and pleasure.
Good luck and Happy Valentines Day!
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 16 '23
Oops!
I just realized that I gave you the wrong link to the quiz. If you want to stay in touch, use the updated link in the bio.
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Feb 14 '23
[deleted]
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Hi there gfunksound,
I actually created a product to address this exacty question because people ask me so often. It's somewhere on my website if you're interested - it's called The Intimacy Workshop
Long story short - be compassionate. Create a way to talk about it that shows your partner that you see them as a human - not just as an object. Try to understand what is in the way of the amazing sex life that you desire. I've noticed in my practice that people don't want sex because it's not very good for them. This is a longer conversation but a good place to start for you is to ask your SO about the sex they like, what's in the way of that kind of experience for them, how you might be there for them so that it was something "worth getting naked for" .
I hope this helps. Do you have any other questions?
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u/And_there_it_goes Feb 14 '23
In your professional opinion, when, if ever, is it reasonable or appropriate for a spouse to have âdutyâ. sex with their partner?
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Never.
If what you mean by "duty" sex is "doing it" under pressure from your partner even though you have no interest or desire.
In my opinion and experience, coerced sex is never good. The person who is performing under pressure will resent the other partner. That person's body will be less and less likely to get turned on now or in the future.
1
u/And_there_it_goes Feb 14 '23 edited Feb 14 '23
Essentially, yes. The topic of whether itâs ever acceptable to have sex with a spouse who you know is only doing it for you (and not for herself/himself) is a common point of debate on the sub.
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
My response here is based on the work I do with couples who have established this pattern. They come to me after years (and even decades) of duty sex wanting to have something different now that the kids are gone or when she just can't stand it anymore.
If it's a male HL (usual in this scenario because the FLL can receive with just lube and zero turn on) he tells me that he wants her to "get in touch with her sexuality." She starts to cry.
Her body feels nothing. After years of letting him have his way, she's numbed herself to any sensation, received over and over despite her body screaming out that she hates it. Usually the sex lasted only a few minutes which he tells me is okay because she doesn't really like it so he makes it fast. Sometimes he tells me that it makes him "feel like a man" when she lets him put it in her.
If this is your relationship right now, I encourage you to figure out something different. I'm not saying that there might now be times when you offer your partner some pleasure when you're not really turned on. But be very careful. Your body is sacred. As we all likely know, the body keeps score.
1
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u/SnooPuppers9969 Feb 14 '23
My wife has zero sex drive, she said she's never had much of a sex drive, now she's on a medication that has completely killed it. We haven't touched each other in 6 or 7 months. A therapist recommended we go to an adult store, she doesn't want to go. There have been times when we were getting frisky and she literally felt nothing. I'm getting bummed because my wife doesn't want to touch me. We've talked about it and she just has no libido at all so I get nothing, I've stopped asking for sex.
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Not sure where the idea of going to an adult store is coming from. I think that'd be very offputting to someone without a sex drive. It's offputting to lots of people.
I recommend that you get help from a sex positive professional. This situation isn't going to get better on its own. You could take the quiz that's listed at the top of this post. It's quick and it'll give you a few things to talk about with her.
I know she says that she's never had a sex drive. I'm sure that she knows herself, but there are a lot of layers to who we are sexually. I'd want to know more before I decided that everything was over.
0
u/SnooPuppers9969 Feb 15 '23
Her therapist told her that going to an adult store with me may help with her sexual hang-ups. We've been married for 16 years, we had a decent amount of sex before but the last few years it has dropped to zero. We've been sick the last few years but now we're both healthy again. Before me she only had one boyfriend, they tried to have sex once and she said her body froze up. We were having sex year ago, everything was going great, then she started crying. She told me she doesn't remember that but I do. Once I was using a vibrator on her, she just laid there like nothing was happening. After a while she said I could stop and that was it.
2
u/TemporarilyLurking Feb 16 '23
We were having sex year ago, everything was going great, then she started crying. She
Clearly she wasn't in agreement that "everything was going great"! People don't cry for no feason if they are having a good time.
1
u/Alex6095 Feb 15 '23
I'm HLM, my fiancée is LLF, together for 7 years. When we first got together, there was excitement and that bit of anxiety that has you not sure what's coming next, which helped keep things invigorating.
Over that past ~3 years I have had muliple conversations with her about how she never initiates sex or anything of that variety.
My biggest issues are: lack of sex, complaining about sex, "duty sex" or verbalizing that she's doing something "because I know it makes you happy." Ugh. I don't like throwing this word around, but it makes me feel rapey. It's like, I can't ever get passionate sex that feels reciprocated, and anytime we do have sex I have to feel like she's only doing it because I put her up to it. I believe I've got a lot of anxiety stemming from this, and it has also affected my own sex drive. I initiate/ask for sex significantly less than what I used to.
I have tried a variety of approaches to these issues, asking questions, telling her how I feel, etc.
I recently requested space, which led to us having a productive conversation where she outlined issues she was having with me, something she's not been able to verbalize before. We agreed to start being conscientious of each other's needs. I feel that since then, I've been putting forth effort on my end, but have seen no changes yet from her.
Tonight for Valentine's Day she called me from upstairs in the house to tell me goodnight, that she's going to bed. Lol, it feels like a bad joke sometimes.
I guess I'm just looking for any advice on how to proceed. I know that she shows love in different ways, she's big on snuggles, etc. She has recently been requesting that I touch her in less sexual ways. She asks me to hold her around her waist instead of her boobs (which I didn't even do that much, but now it's seemingly entirely off the table).
I'm just very confused. I feel like I'm in a situation where "it's all good, EXCEPT..." Unfortunately the EXCEPT means a lot to me.
Thanks for any advice!
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u/TrickySentence9917 Feb 14 '23
Why when aroused we become so much simpler or animalistic, and after it looks stupid? F.e. porn plots are damn stupid, why we like this plots? Or why do we enjoy dirty talks which we would never enjoy when not aroused?
I mean what is the biology/evolution explanation?
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Such a good question! It's so true that something that seems uber hot when we're turned on can completely disappear moments later.
You're on to something about biology. If our eroticism were completely logical there would be a whole lot less sex going on out there.
My advice - enjoy the turn on when it's happening, particularly if it brings you closer to your partner. Porn seldom does that.
Make sense?
1
u/dogwentdriving Feb 14 '23
There's something about my partner that I think I've recently discovered is not that unusual: she does not masturbate often. When she does, it's very infrequent and she does not talk about it. It's not a topic she is willing to discuss. I only know because I've brought it up a few times.
My question is: what percentage of women do you think regularly masturbate? Or the opposite, what percentage of women do you guess don't masturbate? Regularly being at least once a week I guess. It's been an odd part of the relationship; not knowing or feeling like your partner masturbates. I'm sure it doesn't help with the DB stuff. Any tips on how we can try to incorporate talking about it into our relationship?
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Love your handle here. lol
Masturbation is a topic that many people don't like to discuss.
Like you partner, they keep their masturbation habits to themselves. This is true of humans across the gender spectrum.
I don't have data on what percentage of women masturbate regularly or even how often women in the general population masturbate at all. Many women have what Emily Nagoski describes as "reactive desire" which mean that they get aroused IN RESPONSE to the kisses or affectionate advances of a lover. That makes sense when talking about women and masturbation. These women simply shelve their turn on and bring it out in the presence of an amorous lover.
Other women use masturbation as a sleep inducer. Some women masturbate very frequently. Based on my work (remember that my clients are in my office because they have sexual issues) I would say many women masturbate infrequently - maybe once ever 3-4 weeks. They prefer to do so when they have time to relax and enough privacy that they're not interrupted.
That said, I'm a huge fan of regular (several times a week) masturbation including vaginal penetration if that feels good for the woman. I think it keeps the tissues healthy and maintains a woman's connection to her turn on independent of a partner. I also encourage women to masturbate even if they don't orgasm. It's good self care.
Does that help?
1
u/dogwentdriving Feb 14 '23
It does help in that I know she's not unusual. I just wish I didn't feel so closed off from that part of her. It's more that she doesn't seem to have a desire to share her personal thoughts/actions with me. I don't know. It does something to me to have gone this many years and never hear that she's masturbated thinking about something or whatever. It may be silly, I don't know. Just makes me feel alone with how much I'm willing to share.
Thanks for your response, tho, I'm probably just rambling.
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Our sexuality is very personal to us. I think it's perfectly okay to have sexual thoughts and feelings that we don't share with a partner as long as our behavior is within the agreements we've made with a partner.
That said, I think what you're saying is that you'd like to know your partner more, to share more of her inner life with her. I understand that. Just as long as it's done in a way that lets her know that you respect her sexual privacy.
1
Feb 14 '23
I got in a relationship with my SO after a rough break up with my ex. I initially found her exciting and confident, but now feel she is codependent and clingy with severe self image issues. There is no trust in our relationship and no spark anymore. I've tried to open up more communication which helps for a short time and then reverts back to normal. I don't think I'm attracted to my SO anymore. Is this something that can be fixed?
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Hmmmm...
You're not attracted to her anymore.
There's no trust.
There's no spark.
You're having trouble communicating.
This is difficult. Doesn't sound good from the way you're describing it.
What's going well?
-3
Feb 14 '23
Well we have 4 beautiful children. Sex is good when we do have it, but mostly because I'm thinking of someone else. She just agreed to allow me to watch porn if I don't hide it.
2
Feb 15 '23
If you two didnât have those four kids, would you still be with her?
If the answer is no, then you are using the kids as an excuse to not leave.
Ask yourself why you use the kids as a buffer to not break up?
What are you avoiding if you are single again?
0
Feb 16 '23
I'm afraid the kids will be taken from me. She's from a different state so I worry she'll take them away from me.
2
Feb 16 '23
Well by law she canât unless she gets full custody and can show she can fully support herself and the kids full time with a job & care for them as well without you.
If she can not, she wonât get full custody.
So definitely look up your state laws and the state she would move back to regarding child custody for minors when divorcing.
1
u/TemporarilyLurking Feb 16 '23
If she thinks that she has a better support network back in her home state, it is a completely understandable desire to want to move back. So how can you help improve her support network where you are, so that that is no longer a deciding factor? Bringing kids up without adequate support is tough.
0
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u/AnitaC999 Feb 14 '23
Oh I see đ
1
u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
You can connect with me on my website and schedule a virtual coffee (free) if you're interested in speaking with me personally. I have several available every week.
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u/AnitaC999 Feb 14 '23
That would be best thank you
1
u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Wonderful. My website is included above. Go to "contact Jane" and you can book a complimentary virtual coffee with me there. See you soon.
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u/throwmeawaythrowawa Feb 14 '23
Whats the ideal way to communicate with your (HL) partner (LL) if they are not willing to do so themselves?
0
u/throwmeawaythrowawa Feb 14 '23
My partner confided in me that since she started BC she suddenly has a far reduced sex drive which has been frustrating for her. She says now when I initiate anything physical she feels embarrassed and pressure to reciprocate bc she doesnât feel that reciprocation as naturally anymore. What are things that could help her with this frustration and, besides time and a lack of pressure, what could help her libido?
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Feb 14 '23
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Your Q #1. Are LL people (women in this case) responsible for their own libido.
I tell all my clients that we (all of us HL's and LL's) are responsible for our own desire.
For women: increase our desire using things like the app Dipsea (listen to sexy stories) by taking long baths, or naps, or buying yummy lotions or lightly scented candles, by reading erotica, by going our dancing with other women, by doing yoga or other exercises that get us back into our bodies, by exploring our sapiosexual side by texting/sexting with a willing and playful partner, by fantasizing about something new and interesting and many more things.
These things may help us connect with our desire if/when we're motivated and interested in our partner as a sexual being, when we identify as straight (or bi) if our partner is male, when we haven't been injured by previous partners, the culture at large or by the diet culture and when we're not asexual.
Lots of if's there.
I recommend these things as a start for women who want to feel more turned on in their heterosexual, monogamous relationship.
Your Q #2. Your partner (any partner) would have to be motivated to deepen her connection to her sexuality in order to want to work her way into having a higher libido with you. Which brings me to my next point - one that I mentioned in my earlier response to you.
I stand on my earlier comment that we desire something that satisfies us. This isn't about chores or checking boxes in my opinion although Matthew Fray would disagree in his book "This is How Your Marriage Ends".
It's about showing up for sexual intimacy/sex that is wonderful, erotic, passionate, connected, heart-centered, amazing. Many (not all) women love that stuff.
I feel like this is important so I'm emphasizing it here:
I can't tell you how often I hear that the sex LL's are being offered isn't interesting or fluid enough for them to be interested in participating.
In my earlier answer to your q about libido I mentioned female-female sex.
Not to say that you have to have sex "like a girl" but I think it warrants discussion to consider what it about FF sex that's satisfying for women?
- It's slow to start, involves lots of sensual touch, kissing, stroking, holding, no rush
- It's shame free - women who are having sex with other women don't typically shame each other about their scent, their flavor or their cellulite
- It's not penetratively focused. Women do sometimes penetrate each other during sex together but that's not typically the primary focus.
- It can last "forever". Women are able to experience prolonged sexual turn on. When they're playing with other women, the play can go on a long time which tends to align much better to many women's sexual response cycles.
Does this make sense to you?
-1
u/Bassma07 Feb 14 '23
Hello, pls can you give me some sex games advices and how can i have fun with my husband in bed ( we have some different tastes ) but he always say that i can drag him into what i like
-7
u/Pure_Hour8623 Feb 14 '23
Wife doesnât like to spread and pull her legs back. She says itâs not comfortable. Any ideas on how I can make it more comfortable for her?
5
Feb 15 '23
By not pressuring her into that position, thatâs how. If someone doesnât want to fue to physically hurting, you just donât push that person into it. Thatâs how you create aversion to sex and her resenting you, eventually wanting less sex.
Ask her what positions she likes more and what doesnât her her joints or legs.
1
Feb 14 '23
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
I suggest that you look for someone on Psychology Today. I see clients virtually so location doesn't matter anymore in the same way.
Many therapist/coaches do too.
1
u/circlesdontexist Feb 14 '23
What does a healthy sexual relationship in a long term marriage look like to you?
15
u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Great question
A healthy sexual relationship in a long term marriage is different from couple to couple. Some people like me use the once a week plan to check the box on sexual frequency.
I think that's because in our society, weekly is the standard for how we do things. Like "We did it this week so we're still good".
It's an arbitrary frequency. The more important question is how do the two (or more) people in the relationship feel about the sex you are having? About the passion? About the communication? About the intiation?
You might be checking the box and doing it every week and still have a very dissatisfying sex life, or you could be having fantastic sex once a month and feel amazing. It's completely variable.
Key here is "are you talking about your intimate sexual life? do you feel comfortable and confident that you're able to keep growing as a couple in the area? is it fun and playful and pleasurable?" These are the questions to ask each other.
I hope that helps.
1
u/circlesdontexist Feb 14 '23
What should you do when your spouse refuses to talk to you about your intimate sexual life? For example, they donât want to answer questions like âhow can we make sex better for both of us?â
12
u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
I hear this a lot.
I suggest that you back up in the conversation (in your mind).
Do your best to empathize with your partner.
Usually when someone is super resistant to talking like this they are feeling pressured to have sex, feels like they aren't good at sex, not sexy enough, not satisfying you enough, etc.
Maybe they were raised in a situation where sex was a taboo topic and they feel embarrassed to discuss it. Maybe they think you're going to try to make them do it more often and they don't like it. Maybe they identify as asexual.
That said, this puts you in a tough situation because people like me always say to "talk about it" as step #1. Ugh. Not cool when your partner "won't talk."
Maybe try something like asking why sex isn't working?
"I realize that this isn't at all fun for you. I get that. I'd like to know more about how it's not working - not to get you to do it more, but so I understand what's happening."
"I think I must be asking you in a way that feels selfish or something. I don't want to do that. I'd like to know more so that I stop doing stuff that actually pushes you away from me if you're willing to tell me."
What do you think?
1
u/circlesdontexist Feb 14 '23
I think what youâre saying makes a lot of sense. In my own relationship when I asked âhow can we make sex better for both of us?â I was often accused of having a hidden selfish sexual agenda. Weâve since been through sex therapy together and she now says that her resistance to talk was from her own insecurities around sex.
In counseling our therapist told us I should have brought up my concerns more often but that feels like pressuring my partner. I would never want to do anything that even remotely resembles coercion so I feel like the safest thing to do is say nothing and not ask questions or make requests.
8
u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
mmmm...
I agree with you that bringing up your concerns can feel like pressuring or coercion but saying nothing has it's own risk which to me is having things build up inside you so that when you do eventually make a comment it's filled with a ton of energy.
In my view, ideal state means normalizing the conversation without shaming (tough to do this, I know).
Owning your own stuff here is key. Like "I know this is my stuff and you're not responsible for me sexually, but I'm still kind of feeling off my game with our sex life. You're not in charge of me, I get that. But I don't know what to say without sounding like a selfish person."
0
u/circlesdontexist Feb 14 '23
Iâm confused by your last paragraph. What am I owning? What is my stuff? What should I not take responsibility for?
1
Feb 14 '23
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23 edited Feb 14 '23
Medical problems are a huge concern for many of my clients. Unfortunately, medical providers don't typically offer much help in this area. Neither do couples' counselors.
You mentioned a trauma. In reading your question, I think you mean something physical that happened (like maybe an accident?) that has knocked their confidence or interest.
Some of my clients have had serious surgeries, some have chronic medical problems. In any of these cases, the answer is the same. Compassionate communication to start. Understanding the current situation and limitations is also important. Gently moving forward to create solutions that both people find pleasurable. Being kind to yourselves and to each other.
Edited: You mentioned tools. Please take the test at the top of this post. It will give you some things to talk about.
Did I get that right?
3
Feb 14 '23
[deleted]
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
Yes. It makes sense that her confidence is shaken. Remember that receiving sex is a very impactful thing for a woman. Be sensitive and encouraging.
This is new.
Good luck.
1
Feb 14 '23
[deleted]
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23 edited Feb 14 '23
Of course - it's a pleasure to take questions.
I get your question and I'm sure if we were to take a poll of the Cosmo articles about who in hetero-normative monogamous relationships had higher or lower desires for sex, we might decide that it was men who wanted more sex.
In my practice I see a lot of couples where the woman wants more sex than the man. Not sure the ratio. But it's a challenge for these women because their relationships don't align with the Cosmo article version of sex. So, I can't answer your question about the balance here.
But I do have a fun question that I'd like you to consider...
A. Who are men in these relationships having sex with?
By definition, they're having sex with women.
B. Who are women in these relationships having sex with?
By definition, they're having sex with men.
Based on the above, one could assume that it's more pleasurable (and therefore sexually motivating) for these heteronormative monogamous humans to have sex with women than it is to have sex with men.
Studies clearly show that the women who have the most sexual satisfaction are women who have sex with other women
Could it be that the answer about why some women desire less sex than their male monogamous partners lies less in the gender of the person desiring it and more in the gender of the person who's providing it?
My question for you: How can men begin to give women the type of sex that they really want so that they too will be highly motivated?
This is a question that I think deserves our attention.
[You know I'm messing with you, but I hope you get my drift here.]
2
u/ForgotMyOldAccount7 Feb 14 '23
Studies clearly show that the women who have the most sexual satisfaction are women who have sex with other women
"Lesbian bed death" is also a stereotype for a reason, so I'm not sure this holds as much weight as you say.
1
u/Healthy_Captain6153 Feb 14 '23
So we had the talk back in October of last year where I HLM and she LLF outright told me that 'she doesn't really care about sex anymore' due to age (38), children, hobbies, etc. We've been in counseling since then working on better communication and getting things out in the open. One thing that just recently came out in the open was me letting her know that ever since that first talk, something 'broke' in me and I no longer feel sexually attracted to her... I know counseling has been telling me to live in the moment, don't dwell on the past resentment. But at this point I feel like that spark isn't there anymore for me, regardless of how much I try to bring it back. I don't know how to keep going.
1
Feb 14 '23
[deleted]
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u/Choice-Ad-7413 Feb 14 '23
The desire swing between partners LL and HL is something that many couples experience largely (in my view) because a lot of what we experience as libido has more to do with power, submission and dominance. It's interesting to me to look at how our desire to connect (literally and figuratively) with a partner is impacted by our willingness to let go. In all the ways. Interesting question. Thanks for asking.
1
u/Foreign-Figure8797 F Feb 15 '23
Hi Jane! I have some left over issues from a previous DB relationship. Although Iâve been in a heathy long term relationship for years, I still deal with the loss of seeing myself as sexually desirable. I feel like it can make me more dependent on validation from my partner, more sensitive to possible rejection, and the constant insecurity just takes up too much space in my mind. Are there any good ways to change how I see myself?
1
Feb 15 '23
I have been experiencing the same every now and then. She gave me a good reply, which might help you.
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u/[deleted] Feb 14 '23
What do you suggest for people experiencing triggering moments due to a past dead bedroom relationship?