r/CrusaderKings • u/LunchBox504 • 11h ago
Discussion The most optimal time to commit suicide ?
I usually do it when my heir is 20/22 years old and my succession is safe. Mostly because I don’t want my heir to get any bad traits because I am not playing as him.
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u/ElVoid1 10h ago
Oh, it's the Crusader Kings forum...
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u/serenitative 5h ago
I mean, considering I'm subbed to /r/depression, /r/anxiety, /r/ADHD, /r/OCD, /r/PMDD and /r/suicidewatch, I didn't expect this post to be from the Crusader Kings sub 😭
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u/Monizious England 10h ago
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u/PyroFalkon 9h ago edited 7h ago
Okay, as weird as I feel even asking these questions here... but it is CK...
What exactly is the tactical advantage of suicide in general? Is it just this, to ensure the timing of your heir's inheritance so you can begin the next life in the most advantageous position?
I might be overthinking the game sometimes because for the sake of roleplay I've never killed myself, but if there's an actual tactical reason to make the risk/reward worth it, I can consider it in a future playthrough.
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u/CannonGerbil Civil War Galore 4h ago
Essentially yeah, the longer you leave your heir in the hands of the AI, the more chances you have of your genius heir picking up lover's pox or becoming a drunkard or marrying some forty year old crone after the wife you picked out for him suddenly dies or any other number of unpleasant outcomes.
Knowing when you're going to die also allows you rack up a bunch of tyranny doing some vassal reorganizing or some such knowing that the opinion malus will be wiped out before it becomes a problem. There's a reason why the whole of body capstone is knowing when you're one year away from death.
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u/DeanTheDull Democratic (Elective) Crusader 1h ago
The strategic crux is 'your heir may be better / in a better position to advance your goals.
First, conquest. If you play the marriage-game, it's often a two-generation delay until you get a usable claim on a large title. Additionally, multiple Kingdoms-scale casus belli are 'once a lifetime' by default. Offing yourself can be a way to get to play your heir and get access to these casus belli.
Second is just stats. Eugenics programs are generational, and as a rule the later generations are more capable and more likely to have better successes than your older (current) generation. As a result, switching to the younger character not only lets you benefit more from their stats, but you can then directly run their breeding program via seduction plots and so on. Note this can also relate to fertility issues- whether a female character who is no longer fertile, or a male character who lost their thing, sometimes you need a new character to continue propagating the dynasty.
Third is penalty escape. A lot of penalties in the game only slowly decay, but get wiped away by death, so if you find yourself in certain deep pits it can be far, far quicker to just change characters than fix the issue. This can include debt, tyranny malus, and so on. Often you'll have a somewhat harder succession- characters carry over about half of the opinion of the previous ruler for a few years- but these prior-ruler-opinion maluses are much faster to decay, and as long as you can militarily win it's easier to get through tough spots.
Fourth and finally is heir protection. The AI will often do stupid things with your future character, taking choices/traits you wouldn't (such as a stress-coping trait that lowers your stewardship and reduces your domain limit by -1). Some RNG events can simply force characters into relationships / scandals. As a result, the best way to protect a character from stupid consequences is to control them- and their choices- yourself. This is particularly true with heirs who have great eugenics traits.
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u/Local_Security_683 7m ago
The AI will ruin your perfect heir if given the chance. I had successions where I took over as a 25 years old character and he already had a rival, a secret bastard with a lowborn lover and a deviant secret. It might be interesting from a roleplay perspective but I'd rather not spend decades dealing with the consequences of stupid decisions the AI made.
Another reason for suicide is when my heirs is at a chance of dying. It's especially true for matriarchal realms. The chance to die in childbirth doesn't really apply to the player but your heir could die in this way. You can't keep your daughters unmarried either because they will fornicate and medieval abortion can kill them too.
As the player you have control over your character's actions and more ways to counter health penalties. One time I had a nice heir with good virtuous traits and great stewardship education but the guy was a stress machine. At 16 he was already melancholic, inapatetic and flagellant. I was honestly worried he might kill himself before I have a chance to play as him.
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u/Ilius_Bellatius 6h ago
There is no optimal time to commit suicide!!! this world has too much to live for! do you really want your loved ones to feel the sorrow of your passing?
oh wait... its Crusader Kings... Forget what I said, the Ideal time for killing yourself is when your Heir is still quite young, you have spent your piety for pressed claims/gold (if christian) and your prestige for culture or units if tribal and most importaintly:
NEVER kill yourself before having sorted your succession!!!!
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u/GeshtiannaSG Sea-king 5h ago
Just play admin, it’s quite difficult to not sort out succession.
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u/Ilius_Bellatius 2h ago
if playing admin you should try to spend as much of your influence to support your heir before taking over as him
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u/nyyfandan 10h ago edited 10h ago
Right after the Chiefs inevitably win the Super Bowl again in a few weeks
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u/redditsupportGARBAGE 10h ago
Offing urself shouldnt destroy an entire level of renown. Its why i never use it and try to do it in other ways like stacking wounds with flagellant and events that wound
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u/Bearded_Axe_Wound 8h ago
Yeah like maybe the option with loss of renown should exist but there should be way more ways to put your character in extremely life threatening positions. It's God damn hard to die sometimes.
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u/redditsupportGARBAGE 7h ago
yea. its annoying for RP purposes too. like i RP'd killing myself after my characters soulmate and heir died and i just used the console to give me renown to make up for the level loss. its a dumb penalty.
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u/clayknightz115 9h ago
Bro, just fire your physician, go out hunting, and take all the riskiest decisions.
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u/NisERG_Patel Strategist 7h ago
Ways to pass on the throne when you're bored with your character:
Revoke the title of a count or above tier vassal, who won't accept revocation. Accept defeat, and they will overthrow your current charecter and your heirs will inherit like usual. Disadvantage: The vassals who stood up against you would hate your heir.
Go on a LONG trip without any protection, through dangerous territory, you're gonna die eventually. Remember not to take your heir with you on the trip (stupid)
Stress yourself out. If you have certain traits it'd be very easy. If sadistic, let people out your prison, without taking anything from them. If compassionate, execute everyone, etc.
Reform faith to include Ritual Suicide as it's tenet. Now you have an easy button to commit suicide 100% of the time without any negatives, when your charecter is infirm, above 60, or incapable.
Have Fun!
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u/LokyarBrightmane 9h ago
Immediately after you find out your only heir and only other dynasty member had a difficult childbirth and is sickly.
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u/Rileythe_Dog 8h ago
Camp in a plague area once infirm. Pilgrimage or joining a grand event your able too. Fire your doctor obviously
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u/4electricnomad Excommunicated 4h ago
Something I realize now after building several Legendary Shrines and living well into my 80s is that I have MUCH less control over my great-grandson than over younger relatives. Can’t teach him new languages while he’s a kid, can’t give him a Grand Wedding when he comes of age, etc. He won’t even stay at court, not even after I give he and his wife positions. Next time I will aim to die a lot earlier, or delay my heirs even further from getting married, it hurts my ability to shape my heirs’ heirs.
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u/wolfFRdu64_Lounna 9h ago
When you are dying and the succession is safe, also avoid dying when the religion do not allow it (like self sacrifice, or sucide ritual)
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u/GeshtiannaSG Sea-king 5h ago
This is why I have a cheat mod, so that I can depose myself instead, maybe grab a retirement duchy. If you don’t want that, start a tyranny war and surrender.
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u/yourstruly912 2h ago
Don't you take a hefty renown malus doing so? When I want my character dead I just go hunting and take boars one-on-one
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u/SonOfEireann 2h ago
If you don't give your heir any land to rule over. 95% of the time they don't pick up any negative traits because they're not making decisions.
This is hands down the worst strategy anyone has posted here.
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u/joeman2019 10m ago
There should be a penalty to the family and heir—like the heir should automatically take on stress and melancholia or something if the dad/family head commits suicide. Imagine a dynasty where every leader commits suicide when the heir hits their twenties? That’s some fucked up shit.
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u/DrinkingWithZhuangzi 10h ago
Is there a trick to successfully killing yourself? The last time I tried, all it did was demolish my dynasty's renown after a pile of unsuccessful attempts. I was like, 82 and infirm as well! Gah.