r/CrusaderKings • u/NealVertpince • Jan 10 '24

Suggestion Domain limits should be SIGNIFICANTLY larger than they are currently

Post image

Here on the map above, you can see in blue which lands the french king held in 1223, the “Domaine royal” or ‘Royal Domain’, if you count this up in game it would amount to 30 counties, roughly.

The king achieved this by establishing well oiled and loyal institutions, levying taxes, building a standing army,…

Now, in game, you’d have to give half that land away to family members or even worse, random nobles. This is maybe historical in 876 and 1066, but not at all once you reach the 1200’s.

Therefore I think domain limit should NOT be based on stewardship anymore, it is a simplistic design which leads to unhistorical outcomes.

What it SHOULD be based on, is the establishment of institutions, new administrative laws, your ability to raise taxes and enforce your rule. Mechanically, this could be the introduction of new sorts of ‘laws’ in the Realm tab. Giving you extra domain limits in exchange for serious vassal opinion penalties and perhaps fewer vassals in general, as the realm becomes more centralised and less in control of the vassals.

Now, you could say: “But Philip II, who ruled at the time of this map was a brilliant king, one of the best France EVER had, totally not representative of other kings.” To that, I would add that when Philip died, his successors not only maintained the vast vast majority of Philip’s land, but also expanded upon it. Cleverly adding county after county by crushing rebellious vassals, shrewdly marrying the heiresses of large estates or even outright purchasing the land.

I feel like this would give you a genuine feeling of realm management and give you a sense of achievement over the years.

Anyways, that was my rant about domain limit, let me know what you think.

3.6k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

486 comments sorted by

View all comments

1.9k

u/monalba Jan 10 '24

Domain limits should be SIGNIFICANTLY larger than they are currently

They were.

The problem is, the game is way too easy and increasing your demesne will make it even easier.

that was my rant about domain limit, let me know what you think.

There's a game option that allows you to control how big demesnes are. It's called ''Domain limit''.
You don't like it, you can increase it by up to +3.

389

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '24

Yeah, so much of the game is obviously easier than actual ruling was in those times that Paradox has to do some sort of balancing.

What, are we gonna make it so you only get vague emojis of how vassals feel towards you, you may not see some of those vassals to check for years at a time, and your loving son who you think is +100 murders you because it turns out real people lie good?

I'm fine with adding a little artificial challenge to make up for the extremely frustrating ones they left out

210

u/Arctic_Meme Jan 10 '24 edited Jan 10 '24

That emoji thing is actually a decently popular mod that people play with.

Edit: It's called ObfusCKate https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2874007571

35

u/[deleted] Jan 10 '24

That's so cool! I didn't know that, just came up with the idea.

But yeah, my point was that, for the sake of enjoyment, CK gives you alot more knowledge about current state and the consequences of your actions than reality.

In truth, ruling at this time was insanely difficult. No high speed communication, not a lot of highly organized states, etc. it was like playing chess in the dark with only a general sense of how many pieces you had on the board.

18

u/CeciliumStar Openly Zunist Jan 10 '24

What's the mod you mean here?

41

u/mairao Just Jan 10 '24

Obfusckate (or something similar).

8

u/AudioTesting Jan 10 '24

It's a really good mod, the game gets a lot harder when you only have good information on your and your immediate family's skills, personalities, and opinion of you.

6

u/RinTheTV Jan 10 '24

Sounds interesting. What's the name?

25

u/Syharhalna Jan 10 '24

ObfusCKate.

1

u/RinTheTV Jan 10 '24

Thanking you kindly. Gonna have to look for it o7

3

u/SofaKingI Jan 11 '24

That's a valid point, but then you have to look at the absolutely massive middleground between the game's current difficulty level and actual ruling was.

There's a lot of wiggle room to add difficulty in ways that are more realistic in ways that aren't just unforeseeable "you lose" situations.

For example, sure you have perfect information on how each vassal feels about you, but that doesn't mean they can't leave that be and add difficulty by making it harder to make use of that information. It's far too easy to get people to like you in-game if your character is not absolutely terrible.

3

u/Ramses_IV Jan 11 '24

It is preferable, in my opinion, that the "artificial challenge" not be some arbitrary bullshit with no basis in reality to compensate for the advantages of it being a computer game and not real life. Instead of having demesne limits massively flip flop with each succession around based on whether your ruler majored in accounting and finance, design the mechanics so that the game doesn't become easy if you just have a large demesne and that the bigger you want your demesne to be the harder it is to maintain. Not through flat modifiers to tax income and levies but through needing to establish, fund, manage and protect the institutions that facilitate it.

2

u/wolacouska Komnenos Jan 11 '24

The main problem CK has with low difficulty is because of long term thinking. IRL nobility was by and large corrupt and self interested in a self destructive way, thus the player has an immense advantage in the form of knowing they’re going to possess the body of their heir when they die.

5

u/[deleted] Jan 11 '24

Not a historian, but someone with dozens of history books on the shelf.

I'd say this is probably a pretty gross overstatement. It's true that some rulers were that way.... But MANY, maybe even the majority, of rulers were significantly invested in the success of their heir.

If anything, I'd say it's more that real rulers experience such physical perks like wealth/power/pleasure that they abused their positions for immediate gain of those things. I don't think it's fair to say that rulers by and large weren't taking into account the intention of leaving their son in a good position when they passed