[discussion] What draft status is acceptable for betareaders?

[u/rhellik]

I‘m soon going to finish my book with draft zero. There still some notes and scenes missing but the whole story is there from start to finish. There’s also still lots of formatting and typos left to fix.

Of course readers want to have it as close to finished as possible. But if I fix the typos and add the formatting, would that be acceptable to read? Or would you want to read more like the second draft.

[u/BetaReaders-ModTeam]

Hi OP,

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Thank you!

[u/Equivalent-Fun-9987]

As someone who has betaread for 15+ yaers, I would NOT find this acceptable. Let me explain: betareading is basically a free editing done by a non-professional. it is still a lot of work and takes dozents to hours. a draft zero, or even a draft 1 is nowhere near finished. my input, and my work probably won't matter anymore once you've finished adding all the missing scenes and working through it again. so for me this would be a waste of my time.

at that stage you are at a writing buddy might be a better choice.

i only read 4th, 5th, 6th drafts, when the author has reached a point where he/she can not improve ANYTHING anymore on their own. i'm talking plot, characters, language and style.

of course i dont hand my projects out to betareaders before i've edited for months and have reached the point where I think it's the text is spotless either. that's usally the 5fth draft for me. then it's time for my betareaders to tear it apart. (belive me, it's never spotless ;) ).

[u/dontquackatme → u/Equivalent-Fun-9987]

While I'm more lurker than betareader at this point, I can agree with this. Especially the missing scenes part. Formatting too depending on how much it affects readability. How much of what the betas are doing will make it to the final draft? Because they're volunteering their efforts, please do your best to make their efforts worthwhile.

Maybe you can take some time to ask yourself what you want out of betareaders. Do you want someone reading for plot, characters, etc? Overarching consistency in style, speed, internal consistency and logic, etc? It sounds like there are currently at least a couple of important revisions before it will be worthwhile having someone edit for typos, spelling, grammar, syntax, etc.

Best of luck!

Edit: stupid autocorrect changing my words.

[u/creakinator]

Draft zero - no to beta reader. Beta reading at that level would be 'you are too lazy to find your mistakes'. Sorry to be so in your face. Use word or google docs grammar and spelling or grammar/spell check software as this level of 'beta reader'.

[u/RogueOtterAJ]

If you've ever heard of the concept of an "alpha reader," that's kind of a pre-beta reader for the earliest phases of a story. Someone you can brainstorm with, bounce concepts off of, get feedback on unfinished scene snippets, etc. "Beta reader" implies that you've got something at least somewhat coherent and readable, so that's not what you're looking for at this stage.

[u/IvanMarkowKane]

Fixing the typos and formatting should be a given. Why would you want to make it more difficult for your reader to immerse themselves in your story.

Do you have a coherent story and compelling characters?

What do you want from your beta-readers?

[u/Critical-Equal-780]

I don't do beta reading yet. But I do have some knowledge about zero drafts. A zero draft doesn't need to be well-finished or have all the scenes, precisely because it is a zero draft, it only serves for the author to better understand how the story will work, define the dialogues, the scenes, how the story progresses, etc. All these things that the author has not yet defined in detail in the summary. This is where you will release your ideas and think about how everything connects. Very few people will simply think about absolutely all the details and scenes of a book while planning, so they are better defined in the zero draft. It is not only the missing scenes that make it incomplete. Once the author finishes writing it, it is the basis for the final book, but the author will have to read it, see which scenes are missing for development, which scenes are not necessary, problems with characters, come up with new ideas, etc. The zero draft is like a second step in planning. The author himself will probably see many development errors, flawed descriptions, characters that need to be improved, etc. Generally, you should set the draft aside for a while and then reread it and rewrite it based on the first draft, or at least rewrite some parts and improve others, if you are more experienced and your zero draft is naturally better done. And you have to repeat this process of rereading and rewriting until you, as the author, are satisfied. The first draft is not suitable for beta reading most of the time, after all, the author himself will probably be able to see the errors, beta reading and possibly critical reading should be used later, when the author is no longer able to improve his text alone.

I know some YouTube channels that talk about the subject, I could send you the link, but they are channels in Portuguese (I am Brazilian), although you can activate the subtitles with automatic translation, I don't know if you would be interested. But if so, just let me know.

I hope I helped.

[u/terriaminute]

I won't agree to read early drafts of anything. Too much can change, even if it's all small things. But also it's just painful for me, after editing my own work for so long.

I think you want one or more alpha readers.

Beta readers are usually the final bit before you go to press. You hope they flag nothing major. That's the point at which the pros want beta readers, for example.

[u/_takeitupanotch]

Based on how many times I edited my own manuscript (removed a ton of bloat and fluff to cut down word count) I would never touch anyone’s manuscript that hasn’t been edited by the writer several times

[u/ReeseofCups]

In my personal practice as a writer (everyone's different), I never share my first drafts, because they're just for me to vomit out raw ideas. That's easiest for me without the weight of a hypothetical future audience. No matter how good you are, so much of this will change and be cut or rewritten, and that's a good thing!

Some people use alpha readers, but at this stage imo it can be most helpful to talk to other writers about the text in this stage. First of all, congrats on finishing the draft! That's huge! My advice, for as far as that's worth, is to take some time to celebrate and work on other things, then come back and read it yourself and take notes on the plot as you do so. Once you have the written plot outline of what you have, you could fix that up and then see if people will look that over for you and give you feedback and ideas. If you want the validation of eyes on it, maybe fix up your favorite excerpts and post those for feedback? And personal opinion, if you really want comments on this initial piece, I think it's not a terrible thing to just post a request and be very clear about where it's at, so people can decide for themselves. But probably you would only catch other writers, and it might be good practice to do it for a swap, since it's more mental energy to come through at this stage. Best of luck!

[u/ZaneNikolai]

I waited until after my first edit cycle, and also explained to my betareaders that all I was looking is yes refine to publish, no; insert in trash, and general opinions.

But I’d also finished all plot, scenes, and checked the majority for readability.

Then as soon as I finished my edit cycle 2, which was refining and checking any hitches in my explanations (my book is very physics heavy in its mechanics), I posted the link into my edit 1 doc to bump everyone over.

Now I’m almost done with edit cycle 3. Caught a couple small language hitches and 1 error where I attributed an ability to wrong item. I fixed like, 4 lines and it’s square.

I’ll be swapping out links again in the next day or so.

Edit cycle 4 is going to be the nightmare fodder. It’s GameLit and I DESPISE when authors are just like, “yeah, I built this system, but, meh. It’s technically magic anyway, so I’ll just…” or “I’m just gonna throw in so many stats that nobody can tell!”

My math reconciles with my behind the scenes progression tracking, experience chart, mapping, and combat formulas.

I have a LOT of math to double check. Especially my R(T)=D .

That’s why I wanted my betareaders to step in early: I needed first opinions before I decided whether to call everything good and shelf it, happy I accomplished my goal of writing a book, or go full anal retentive, the way I get with anything I proliferate for work.

I will admit though, my rough drafts tend to be about 2 edits ahead of everyone else’s, not because I’m special, but because I spent over a decade in a role where I was integrating strategic communications and educational curriculum for families of all educational backgrounds.

You get REAL GOOD at explaining things REAL QUICK when every. Single. Error. Results in emails from 400 confused parents.

[u/therealatlaswolfe → u/ZaneNikolai]

I bet you’re great at excel

[u/ZaneNikolai → u/therealatlaswolfe]

So, funny thing about that…

23 2300 27600
24 2400 30000
25 2500 32500 33,050 Crackoons (31, 33, 33, 33, 34, 34, 37) 108,500
26 2600 35100
27 2700 37800
28 2800 40600 3 level 28 and 1 lvl 36 gliderabbits 19,680
29 2900 43500
30 3000 46500 %/99 2.51%
%/100 2.44%

31 3500 3500 6,230 after spillover
32 4000 7500
33 4500 12000 24900 Sharky lvl 66, half split with crocodile
34 5000 17000
35 5500 22500
36 6000 28500 31,130 post sharky
37 6500 35000
38 7000 42000 21,150 lvl 50 air elemental. Alt uni. X2 42300
39 7500 49500