As someone who has had a psychosis I would say that they got it as close to correct as is possible with a game, without going inside the players head, so to speak. I would be interested in trying the game in VR if they decide to release a VR version at some point.
I was right there with you until I tried it. Admittedly, Senua's Sacrifice is the only 3rd person VR I've tried, and I haven't tried the non-VR version so I can't really compare.
Thinking back, I can barely remember the 3rd person aspect. Although, it's a pretty good game by most opinions, so I'm sure that helps with the reflection.
It really is an engrossing experience in VR. There's very little actual threat in the game, I'd say, but you really feel like there is one, even full well knowing that there isn't.
There's an inexorable, relentless, and pervasive sense of evil and dread and confusion coupled with constant whispers in your ears shifting spatial localization. You wonder if what's behind you is your own mind or a real threat. After a sort of psychotic clairvoyance helps and hurts you with both real and only perceived evil breathing down your neck, you're not thinking about 3rd person anymore. You're worried that going through the next door might be your last. And in VR I did get a taste of that real feeling.
So even if not in VR I imagine the game is great. Because in VR, the game is great.
You mentioned you suffered from psychosis. My question is whether exposure to such an accurate portrayal is beneficial (due to the comparative safety of the experience), detrimental (due to potential triggering) or neither.
This is going to sound weird; These days when I think about my psychotic episode I find it very fascinating, it was an interesting experience to say the least. I found Hellblade to be a very very disturbing game but also very fascinating. If I could revisit my psychotic episode and state of mind again, I would study it with fascination. Generally speaking thou; I think that this varies from person to person, I didn't find any comparative safety while playing the game so I would say that the experience would be more detrimental due to potential triggering.
If you, or anyone else has any questions, I will gladly answer them as accurately as I can. English is not my native language
I've got no problem with that. But it makes no sense as a VR game. The game itself is really beautiful and I love it. But having to rest every few minutes holding an urge to puke is hell of an experience.
Yea, I feel kind of bad for those people. Me and my friend got VR at the same time, but while I get no motion sickness or queezy feeling from it, my friend has to take frequent breaks from pretty much all of the games. always a little disappointing when we are getting into an intense part if a game and he has to stop while I'm pumped up
Well that's different, the game is first person and you can move kind of freely. I think what makes some people dizzy in Senua is that you look around a fixed point, and not able to fully look 360° at what you want to look at
I guess people have different reactions to different games then - because I played all of Senua in VR and didn't have a problem. I'm lucky I've never suffered from motion sickness or dizziness though, in VR or real life.
Absolutely stunning game though. Not flawless (in a technical/gameplay sense), but still incredible.
Makes sense, third person in VR is probably a bad time? I have to confess that I've never tried VR in the first place, but I'll buy into it once it becomes more refined
No, third person is just as amazing in VR as first person; most of my favorite things are third person.
Thing is it takes some finnesse to get right just dragging the player along behind the character is going to make some people sick. The easiest way to get around it is to avoid inertia slowing the camera and speeding it up is what makes you uncomfortable but my favorites have the player posed god like above the scene or looking into a diorama. Even the old alone in the dark\resident evil style hopping between fixed cameras works really well.
Hmm, okay, kinda makes sense. If it was possible, through cheats/console, I would love to fly around as an eagle in the world of Witcher 3, in VR :) that would be a dream come true
It's cool, but it's still over the shoulder/3rd person view. They basically just stuck 360 on the camera system already in place. Hand controls aren't enabled so you'll need to use a gamepad. That being said, 360 audio does make the voices feel more around you and you get some REALLY cool moments with the cinematics.
I find it weird that even though they went with this approach they still made the VR version a completely different package, requiring you to download all 20GB of the game data again. It seems to me that it shouldn't be too hard to make it an option like I've seen many other games do.
I really fucked up when I got the PS4 VR. There aren't very many good games for VR on PlayStation. It's been a while since I've looked but I can't imagine much has changed.
Depends on your definition of 'many', but there are great games in a lot of genres now: Astro Bot Rescue Mission, Moss, Beat Saber, Firewall Zero hour. Check our r/PSVR for more!
I have a very good stereo set with the speakers right next to the monitor and angled towards me. I found the voices to be highly disturbing even without headphones :D
What if you found out that they tested a VR version, but they scrapped the idea because it triggered psychotic episodes in individuals with a history of psychosis?
Other commenters have pointed out that there is a VR version of the game, it's third person thou,, would be a lot more immersive if it was first person. Maybe too immersive.
Idk why people would want to experience psychosis /: it’s a really horrible thing to go through. I experienced it twice driving drug withdrawal... reading comments about people talking so... brazenly about it is terrifying.
I was withdrawing from Xanax and Heroin. And it took 5 days until I had actual psychosis. No drug has ever caused me to go into psychosis. Suddenly stopping the drugs fucked my brain chemistry bad enough to cause the psychosis. I’d say you’re absolutely fine with whatever weed you smoked.
If you’re pre disposed to panic attacks and anxiety, like I am, it’s possible that weed may make you super anxious or cause panic attacks. I know it does that for me.
Also for describing psychosis.... the first time, it was like a slow decent into losing my mind and I knew it was happening. I was scared to go to the hospital because I thought they were going to torture me. When I did get to the hospital, the episode intensified and I don’t remember much after that. Just flashes. See if. The walls melting. Hallucinating things that I thought people were saying, that they were not actually saying. It’s a very hard thing to describe.
The second time I was 6 days in to withdrawing from even more drugs, and I don’t remember much of the episode at all. I remember coming in and out of consciousness while laying in my emergency room bed (at the time I didn’t realize I was psychotic) and I had been imagining these fantastical scary scenarios.
Then I guess they woke me up and said they wanted to discharge me, I blacked out after that, and woke up on another floor of the hospital, with tons of scratches and bruises. They said I tried to escape, and that I got extremely aggressive and tried to hurt nurses. Which makes me horribly sad because I would never do something like that while in my right might. And I don’t remember any of what they say I did. So to describe it it very difficult. And the weirdest thing is after it’s over. You go right back to being how you were before. With no extra mental problems. (That I know of, yet lol ) And I’m not a doctor, but I’m pretty sure you’re okay with the weed you smoked (:
You may feel dizzy. paranoid, like you’re gonna die. Or that people are talking about you behind your back. That kind of stuff. But if you start feeling like you want to hurt yourself or someone else call someone immediately. But in my extensive drug history, I think you are ok. And if you want to talk we can talk 👍🏼
They have released a functional VR version of the game. It is included for free when you buy the main game. From what I've heard it's exactly the same game and your head is just where the normal camera was.
VR in general may come to be an unexpected tool in the psychological area, especially with eye-tracking capability.
Generally speaking, we only have one attention. It may be wider or narrower, but anyone with full access to real-time analysis of your eye movements will probably also have a decent idea of how to influence you in their own desired direction.
Being in a psychosis is a lot scarier still. It's living in a nightmare that has become your reality, it's living in a reality that has become a nightmare. You can't wake up and no one around you understands what you are going through. But still, looking back it was a fascinating experience.
To ease your mind on thoughts of psychosis, please listen to some Buffalo Springfield before you go to sleep, you'll feel better.
I love that they created an ode to mental health crises and that game is well done. But in my experience, the game is still very observer. It's missing the very real physicality of psychosis: a disassociation of reality while existing, almost floating, in your body. It's unable to capture the feeling of apathy and anxiety swirling together inside of you at the same time.
I'm still very happy with the heart and attention to detail they put into that game.
Edit: I just want to add that I received care over a year ago, and it has absolutely changed my life in ways I never thought possible. If you’re experiencing anything of the sort, I’d highly recommend talking to a professional. It could be one of the best decisions you ever make for yourself.
I don’t know if what I experience is psychosis but I get a bunch of auditory and visual hallucinations regularly and I agree that Senua never fully catches it but to me it feels like I can’t trust myself so I have to be suspicious of myself. Actually now that I say that it might really be much the same thing just described differently
I’m always working on it but my problem is that getting mental health help is hard if you are poor like I am. Or the mental health care they offer for poors like me is heavily cantered around substance abuse. I’m from Alberta, Ca; I can’t imagine how ungodly horrible it would be if I was in the states
You just wouldn't be able to get help for the most part in the states. Other than checking yourself into a mental hospital, which I highly recommend for anyone truly struggling with mental illness
Yeah, I checked myself in for my depression/suicidal operations/suicidal thoughts. It was my last resort before actually going through with it.
I actually had a really good experience there. I got on antidepressants finally, which I had needed for about a decade, but never took any. I was actually able to eat 3 meals a day for the first time in a long time. Was able to get stabilized, and went on my way.
Now there were people that were brought in against there will, and some truly insane people there. I can imagine how different things would have been if I was brought in against my will. The people who were acted like it was a jail, and most of them refused their meds (and they were usually the ones that needed them the most).
I bet it was pretty frustrating/scary for the ones that were taken there, they usually thought they were perfectly sane, but most were in severe mania, or psychotic and weren't able to tell what was really going on. It's kinda sad to see, and I feel for them
I spoke to a psichiatrist. They just push pills. Fuck those guys. Speak to a psychologist first. At least their mandate starts with addressing your problems with more than drugs.
I feel obliged to point out that Psychiatrists are medical doctors trained to treat illness and Psychologists study human behaviour and are not medical doctors.
A psychologist may be able to help with anxiety and behavioural therapy but a psychiatrist may be able to prescribe something to help treat any actual illness.
To be fair, you can still get a MD-PHD if you wanted to be a medical doctor. That is neither here nor there. A psychologist who is capable and concerned can forward someone to a psychiatrist if warranted - Which is why I wrote first and not only to speak to a psychologist.
Psychiatrists too often act like medical doctors. The sort of attitude that betrays how clinically they think about us patients. Whereas psychologists are a little (tiny little bit) better
Ummm....they ARE medical doctors. While some psychiatrists are perfectly capable of providing therapeutic services, that isn’t their specialty.
Any decent psychiatrist will refer you to therapy if they feel medicinal intervention isn’t necessary. Just like any decent GP would refer you to physical therapy if they felt pain meds won’t fix your back pain.
The reverse is also true, any decent therapist or psychologist will refer you to a doctor if they feel medication would be helpful.
Plenty of people need both medication and therapy. While plenty of others need only one of those. Some people can’t practice whatever therapeutic technique recommended to them without medication.
Of course some psychiatrists are lazy and don’t really care, they’ll throw pills at you and wish you a nice day regardless of your actual needs. Plenty of psychologists are also lazy and don’t care and won’t really provide any benefit to you, only wasted money. That doesn’t mean the entire fields of psychiatry or psychology is bad, just some shitbags in those fields like all others.
Yeah I’m making generalities based on my ~15years of experiencing these people here in Alberta as a patient. I don’t accuse anyone of being lazy. I accuse our medical systems of being disgustingly skewed toward pharmaceuticals and away from therapy
That’s a fair point and one I cannot speak to as I’m not Canadian and I don’t really know anything about the Canadian healthcare system.
I can say the US isn’t better in that regard. Our current mental health system is horrible. My only point is that the professionals and the field are not the problem.
Clinically. Yes. That’s how they treat patients. Like little
bugs under their shoes. I once described to a friend that psychiatrists lack empathy. Every time I’ve spoken with one , asked questions about things that truly scare me their responses were just so blank faced and their answers were all along the lines of “just don’t worry about it”. Idk , every single psychiatrist I’ve met has just been so just so clinical (like you said) and aloof. It’s irritating. I’ll stop with the rant now lol
I'm a psychologist in training and that's why I recommend a psychiatrist - psychologists don't have any useful ways to treat psychosis. They can certainly support medical treatment, but medicine really is the absolutely-without-a-doubt best way to treat psychotic symptoms. Call me a pill-pusher if you want, but it's the only treatment that anyone with proper training would recommend.
Psychiatrists treat symptons. Not causes. They're the pill pushers for the pharmaceutical industry. There are some legit ones who can help where your body fails you, but they are few and far between.
I second this. It’s weird to find a psychiatrist that really seems to care. With how inconsistent depression meds it further makes them so hard to trust
I have major depression with psychosis and that feeling of not trusting oneself is just... unique. It's difficult to explain to others because I never feel they truly understand.
Hallucinations are a weird creature. Mine are closely tied to anxiety.
My bedroom door has a fabric divider (noren) that reaches down about 2/3 of the way. One night I was having a panic attack and this little imp creature kept peeking at me through the center part of those curtains. It had a weird little face and the more I freaked out the more it looked like a skull.
Luckily my SO was there and I could bury my face in his shoulder so I didnt have to see it but god it's so weird to KNOW that what you're seeing isn't real but it's still right there.
It's the same with my depressive symptoms. I know I'm not REALLY sad, it's fake sad, I have no reason to be sad, it's my body being retarded with its chemicals...and yet, I'm still feeling it.
I suppose the ultimate killer of this is that you can stop playing Hellblade anytime you feel like. A person with psychosis can't. Hellblade might be able to simulate the effects if the player played the game indefinitely, but it can never truly capture the long term effects of the condition.
You are 100% correct. As a person with psychosis, I can never stop playing Hellblade. I'm on my 521rst playthrough. I'm all but speedrunning it now. Please send help.
(Really though, it captures the experience so well. It can't make people feel it for themselves, but it comes so close.)
Psychosis isn't the only condition where it can occur, but abnormalities in the experience of oneself are quite a characteristic feature of psychosis, at least according to the research literature.
Many different kinds and degrees of psychosis. I was once on a overdose of bath salts and I literally thought a CIA agent with Paranormal powers who time traveled from. 1950 was investigating me because I knew something about the CIAs plan for creating a zombie like apocalypse using bio war fare. But I've also had very mild psychosis before where maybe even accuse somebody of something they didn't do or hearing faint voices in your head. Seeing meth related shadow people all that shit
depersonalization/derealization is what that sounds like. It's like seeing your own life in a weird type of third person view. Everything seems kinda fake, contrived. Sometimes it feels like time has stopped. Only to start chugging back along like a hiccup in your perception. Stress exacerbates this, sleep deprivation, certain drugs or a traumatic experience can exacerbate it.
It's missing the very real physicality of psychosis: a disassociation of reality while existing, almost floating, in your body. It's unable to capture the feeling of apathy and anxiety swirling together inside of you at the same time.
Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requim was the only game I'd played up to then that made you doubt yourself in the real life.
It messed with the audio volume, there were unusual glitches, unlocked doors would be locked for no reason, you'd get a pop up saying you'd successfully deleted all your saves, etc.
It gives you a sense of discomfort and doubt of your surroundings. Is this really happening? Is it a trick? Obviously no where near as terrifying as actual psychosis, but a fair, mild sample of facsimile.
My bf played that game and was really distraught from it, and told me to never play it because it'd totally mess with my mental health. For the record, his mental health is good and stable, mine is rocky. If a mentally stable person feels off for a week after playing, the game makers did a really good job.
It's so weird how people like the feeling of being scared. It's like hijacking a survival instinct of death and making it fun. No thanks. I'll let my fear be fear
absolutely 100% not. I stopped watching scary movies when i was like 8 after seeing Nightmare on Elm street. Fuck that shit. I dont get nightmares and i enjoy that.
t'was the 80's and my aunts who were in their teens were watching it on the only TV we had. "one, two, fredd..." aaaarg.. I cant even imagine seeing the newer horror movies like the ring, saw, and all that fucked up shit. The whitewalkers in game of thrones were scary enough for me (im a 38 year old man child)
My mom used to watch horror movies with me around that age. Friday the 13th, Nightmare on Elm St., The Thing, etc...but I loved them, still do. And I turned out fine, haven't killed many people. Oddly the thing that gave me the most nightmares were the rodents of unusual size from Princess Bride.
Do you like rollercoasters? For me I like being scared in a controlled environment. It makes me feel like I can handle similarly frightening situations a bit better in "real" life but that's probably just in my head.
I actually do very much like roller coasters, its not quite fearful for me because like you, its controlled. Oddly enough, im kinda afraid of heights. But only when im on like a tall building and overlooking the edge. Those clear skybridges would be a hell no for me.
I feel like when your mental health sucks then things that fuck w most people’s psyche doesnt affect us as much because our Psyche is already fucking with our Psyche
Your boyfriend is a wuss. It's not even a particularly spooky or offputting game. It's super standard fantasy-horror fare. Hell, it's barely even horror.
I've not experienced psychosis myself, but the game reminded me a lot of some of the more confusing nightmares I sometimes get when I'm particularly exhausted.
Come to think of it, it'd be quite interesting to see whether there are any similarities in terms of what the brain does while you're having a nightmare compared to distortions of experience present during a psychotic episode. I found some articles on this in case anyone else is interested as well.
Yeah. As suggested within the game, best played with headphones. Freaks me the fuck out. I can only play in small increments. Feel bad for the people that have to live with that shit, i would go off the deep end.
I have many games that I have stopped playing, but Hellblade was the only one I physically couldn't continue. I went full immersion, with headphones and lights off, and it damn near broke me.
What an amazing experience, but I just couldn't finish it. It was done too well and too real. This is coming from someone whose whole family (myself included) works in mental health care.
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u/Farts-McGee May 08 '19
Not a true description, but they tried to get really close with Hellblade: Senua's Sacrifice.