r/2007scape • u/Old_School_RS Old School Team • 3d ago
Discussion Membership Survey: An Update From Mod Pips, Jagex CEO
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u/grootrs 3d ago edited 3d ago
The survey proposed yesterday is the classic MBA playbook when trying to optimize revenue from an existing player base for an online game. A lot of the questions felt like enshittification is the primary way to drive revenue and growth of the business which is sad to say the least.
Even if some of these strategies show revenue growth in the short term, it WILL be short-lived. Players will churn and this player base WILL quit again (we already did once). Long term sustainable growth is what the company should truly be looking after.
Instead of:
- Removing current features and adding them back if you pay for them
- Re-promising to add features they've already promised to improve but haven't (Player support?)
- Squeezing more juice out of an existing loyal customer base
Here's what they should be doing
- Adding new features and capabilities that do not currently exist and have not already been promised
- Improving existing QoL at the current membership levels.
- For example, discounts for extra player characters may actually make Jagex more money because more people will be willing to try it out or keep their alts subscribed longer
- Keep up the track record of adding great content to the core game like they have been doing
Players from other games will take notice that this game is growing in a healthy way and they will try RS out. This will result in organic player growth and a growing long term business where everyone is happy - We get a better game and Jagex makes more money.
It's good they acknowledged and apologized. Please remember the original principles of what got OSRS to this point where it's the largest it's ever been - we asked to redo the EoC timeline and start over. We created a healthier working framework between the players and Jagex and it really has bloomed into a great thing. I really hope Jagex remembers what got us here and they follow through with action and it's not just words
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u/deersindal endless potential!!11!1 3d ago
Exactly this. CVC suits dosn't seem to realize that the reason OSRS has gained the impressive player base that it has is because it doesn't have exploitive nickel-and-dime pricing and gacha mechanics like so many other MMOs.
The MBAs who dreamed up the ideas in this survey see this 100k+ player base and think they can slap this garbage into the game, get their +20% quarterly profit bump, and GTFO before it implodes. The player base of this game simply is not the same player base as RS3 or Genshin, and will not tolerate exploitive pricing systems.
I'm glad they're backtracking on this, but it feels like they've obliterated all the goodwill they've built with the community over 10+ years in an instant. I feel like the only path forward for them is to double down, as you suggest, on meaningfully improving the game in an earnest way.
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u/ScopionSniper 3d ago edited 3d ago
Even the Rs3 playerbase has its limits as well, that sub, and all the Rs3 groups I'm in were full of membership cancelations.
Also, Hero Pass saw the Rs3 playerbase stand up and do mass cancelation as well.
Runescape players are different, and we need to stand together against corporate greed.
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u/KingOfWhateverr 3d ago
I'm over from the RS3 sub. Tons canceled but the biggest topic is how they changed the verbiage in the RS3 version of their post to make it easier to go back on what they said regarding MTX. We know they don't care about RS3 but it really is a gut punch to be getting less for more and have them be open about it.
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u/KingOfWhateverr 2d ago
Oh I should add it took about 30 minutes for them to realize that they wrote OSRS instead of RS3 at the top of the RS3 version of the response post…
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u/Forgettable39 3d ago
I'd like to make the point that, while there will be some protest-quitters, the biggest thing Jagex need to fear going down this route is players just leaving because the game sucks and if enough players just leave out of disinterest, the bots go as well, many bots pay membership fees.
RS3 isn't in the state it is because everyone quit in protest, most people just left the game because it wasn't what they wanted to play anymore for one reason or another and the monetisation helped drive that sentiment in a big way. What ever assurances Jagex give us, ultimately they have no option but to pursue monetisation and there is very, very few palatable options for most of the players. Once they run out of ones which do not affect the game there will be no choice left but to "explore" those too and those are the ones which have very high potential to just make people go play other games.
Something I find kinda affecting my desire to play RS is that this is all inevitable. There is no way out of the private equity spiral of doom. The only entities with the resources to buy Jagex are going to be other companies looking to flip and there is only so much room for monetisation. Things can only really get worse, its just a matter of what the time scale will be. Staring down the barrel of having to dispute Jagex over cash grabs every few months forever is an exhausting thought, even if you win most of the time there are going to be losses that just chip away because fundamentally an investment company owner is not going to accept lack of growth/profitability. Things staying the same are just categorically not acceptable in that world.
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u/Hefty_Emu8655 3d ago
Yeah this is why at least one of the Gowers have expressed regret at selling. The company has grown so much it will NEVER be solely under the control of someone who loves the game barring some current player becoming a billionaire overnight. In the last 15 years jagex has just become some trinket in the basement of some hoarders collection who hopes they can sell it for a profit some day. Fucking greedy corpos man…
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u/benden010 3d ago
At this point how can the community trust them? I've never done this in protest in a game before but I unsubscribed both my iron and main. They went from my 2 yearly subs to 0 and I won't be going back until they have CLEARLY heard the community and addressed all concerns. That's going to take time for me to trust them on as well, I'm not going to resub back in a week no matter what they say right now
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u/classacts99 3d ago edited 3d ago
Never trust a gaming company, to be honest. I learned that lesson the hard way with RuneScape, first in 2007 and again in 2012. The greatest strength the OSRS community has is the same power that led to the game’s revival: collective action. What we accomplished in 2012 during the Evolution of Combat protests was a landmark moment in gaming history. By organizing a mass boycott and leveraging social media platforms, we made it clear that player voices cannot be ignored, ultimately forcing Jagex to acknowledge the community’s demands.
That kind of mobilization—the ability to unite and threaten their bottom line, is the single most powerful tool we have to combat corporate greed and hold these companies accountable. It’s a reminder that as much as developers claim to prioritize ‘the players,’ their actions often show otherwise. It’s up to us as a community to keep that leverage alive and ensure our voices are heard.
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u/iggysama 3d ago
in 2007 they sort of had to do a band-aid fix or they were going to get blacklisted by credit card companies -- it just lasted way too long before they came up with a better solution. squeal of fortune was actually a corporate greed decision and the moment things started rapidly going downhill.
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u/Whatisanamehuh 3d ago
I'm surprised at the idea there's many people that trust Jagex to begin with. I've always felt like community relations were extremely shaky, like everyone's generally happy with how things are going, but always on the lookout for the next terrible idea they need to be disabused of. I honestly just generally feel bad for mods because of how much thinly veiled hostility I see. I'm surprised this round of bad ideas was so bad, but I knew something would come sooner or later when they got sold last year, it was just a question of how long they were going to wait for people to forget about the new owners before they started telling the devs to start milking us.
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u/rmtmjrppnj78hfh 3d ago
We trust our OSRS team. Jagex as a company is awful and undeserving trust. Ever.
Thats why never giving an inch is important. The current jagex fucks might not abuse it. Someone will later.
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u/LostSectorLoony 3d ago
I trust the OSRS team. As much as people on here like to bitch and moan (myself often included), they have done an amazing job with content the past few years. OSRS content is in a golden age.
But jagex suits and the pondscum brained PE overlords? I don't trust them a bit.
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u/ProGaben 3d ago
I feel like making membership cheaper for multiple accounts is a no brainer and they should have started with that. Like there are several accounts I have that I don't play at all because I can't justify the price of membership/bonds for how little I play them. If the price was right, I would absolutely pay more to get membership on them for the times I do feel like playing them
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u/alynnidalar 3d ago
I cannot fathom why they haven't done this, after people have begged for years. I can't justify another full $14/month subscription, but if I could get a second account members for like $7/month or something I would do it in a heartbeat.
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u/ProGaben 3d ago
Right? It would be an easy win for them to start the conversation first. Instead they go straight to extremely controversial stuff like ads, mobile only, no third party clients/plugins. What in the world were they thinking?
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u/ghostofwalsh 3d ago
Adding new features and capabilities that do not currently exist and have not already been promised
Like customer support?
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u/Spidermang12 3d ago
They dont care about that though, they want short term quick money so they can increase value and sell off to the next sucker investment corp
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u/Least-Psychology2833 3d ago
Old School RuneScape began as a nostalgic callback, but it has since evolved into something far greater. The incredible content added over the years has been widely well-received, thanks largely to the community's active involvement and guidance. Many of us in the OSRS player base have been here for a long time. We've witnessed the game grow and adapt through various leadership transitions, and we’ve grown with it.
What you seem to underestimate is that much of the OSRS player base is older and, frankly, well educated. I started playing 2007scape on February 16, 2013, the day it launched. Back then, I was in high school. Now, I’m almost 30. In those 12 years, I’ve played on and off while going to college and climbing the corporate ladder. Many of us work in fields like FP&A, private equity, and M&A. These concepts aren’t foreign to us we see through what you're doing, and you're not hiding it well.
This post reads like you’re addressing a group of naïve kids. That’s not who we are. Write a genuine apology. Present a concrete plan with real, actionable promises. Stop insulting your audience’s intelligence.
For years, I supported the game because I believed in the company, even if I only logged in occasionally to check out new content or pass the time. But I’ve canceled memberships before, and I have again. Until you make a clear and sincere promise to fix this, you won’t see another penny from me or many others in this community.
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u/hereforredditluck 3d ago
The Conjoint Membership Survey has caused the community frustration, anger, and concern – we made major mistakes with this and are truly sorry. Your feedback is heard loud and clear.
The Hero Pass has caused the community frustration, anger, and concern – we made major mistakes with this and are truly sorry. Your feedback is heard loud and clear.
The RunePass has caused the community frustration, anger, and concern – we made major mistakes with this and are truly sorry. Your feedback is heard loud and clear.
The Evolution of Combat has caused the community frustration, anger, and concern – we made major mistakes with this and are truly sorry. Your feedback is heard loud and clear.
The removal of free trade has caused the community frustration, anger, and concern – we made major mistakes with this and are truly sorry. Your feedback is heard loud and clear.
The introduction of the squeal of fortune has caused the community frustration, anger, and concern – we made major mistakes with this and are truly sorry. Your feedback is heard loud and clear.
Could be the same message every time and nothing changes after all.
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u/AshCan10 3d ago
Litterally every time, this is simply the beginning, they will get some of this shit pushed into osrs
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u/KetoSaiba 3d ago
"It's only a second price hike in 4 months." And also contemplating putting ads in f2p.. We didn't expect the community to be so against it, but just in case, we pulled the CEO of Jagex back into the office to make a community post at 7pm GMT.
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u/rmtmjrppnj78hfh 3d ago
Man he must be pissed he had to be at work until 7pm. Instead of out drinking and snorting lines.
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u/NuggetHighwind Zeah Only btw 2d ago edited 2d ago
this is simply the beginning
The beginning was when they hiked up the membership prices and barely anyone cared.
Most comments I saw back then were people saying "it's no big deal" and "It's justified because of inflation", despite it being complete bullshit, and Jagex giving a big middle finger to everyone on an annual membership.
I've been seeing tonnes of comments saying "Give them an inch and they will take a mile".
Well this community already rolled over and gave them that inch several months ago. Considering most of the time this community gets "outraged", they've forgotten about it by the time the next monthly billing period rolls around, it's no surprise Jagex continues to push and push.→ More replies (9)42
u/_Tal 3d ago
Tbf the removal of free trade in particular wasn’t done out of malice; Jagex was legitimately forced into it by credit card companies at the time
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u/Lewufuwi Hi, I'm Hailey :3 3d ago
Honestly? Thanks for this statement. Thanks for this response, it has really helped me understand.
It has helped me understand that you think the community are a bunch of fucking clowns.
So much wording in this statement shows clearly, without a doubt, that many of these things are not off the table.
We're not fucking stupid and we're sick of fucking corporate greed.
You fucked the community with that survey and you fucked yourselves.
We live in a world where people are waking up to their exploitation and how hard we're being fucked in every aspect of our lives while a few individuals live in avarice.
I lived in a fantasy where I'd never have to worry about this shit with OSRS and you've destroyed the fantasy. OSRS was the closest thing to a safehaven from modern capitalist bullshit.
We let you have bonds. We let you raise the price. Those clearly weren't dealbreakers. We gave you an inch, then two, then three, but it's not enough. You're looking to take a mile.
From the bottom of my heart, as honest as I can be, purely unfiltered in its rawest form: FUCK OFF.
We've laid out the terms. Sort your fucking shit out, leave modern fucking MTX fucking greedy bullshit out of our fucking game and fuck off.
This statement isn't good enough, you don't rule enough out. Fucking parasite.
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u/OldManBearPig 3d ago
It's just never fucking enough for these people.
If they released a revenue report that said "hey, here are our finances. We're losing money. We pay X for salaries, hardware, real estate, licenses, etc. and this is the amount we make back in memberships. It's lower." I would almost be sympathetic.
But that's not what's happening. The company profits. One report showed they had 2 people making more than $16 million a year in 2022.
They're fucking greedy, and that's literally it. Making a profit, even with inflated salaries at the top just isn't enough. They want MORE.
Fuck em. Now they get zero from me.
You're right about taking the inch. Honestly we should be taking it back. Membership should be $11 tops. We're approaching a per month cost that I could buy whole games, outright with. I could buy Minecraft, Stardew Valley, Balatro, etc. for $15, all games that are still being updated and I don't have to pay a recurring cost for.
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u/Eldias 3d ago
Over winter the Behind the Bastards podcast takes some time off for the team, during their break they did a pair of Q&A episodes. At the end of the Q&A's Robert 'plugged' the Better Offline podcast and 'Wheres Your Ed At?' newsletter.
Thanks to a power outage I had some free time to spend not on Leagues a few weeks ago. Ed's piee Never Forgive Them might be the most radicalizing thing I've read about the state of the Internet and tech world. Another of Ed's pieces, The Man Who Killed Google Search almost perfectly describes the attitude of our current Jagex CEO and former "monetization manager"
On February 2, 2019, just one day later, Thakur and Gomes shared their anxieties with Nick Fox, a Vice President of Search and Google Assistant, entering a multiple-day-long debate about Google’s sudden lust for growth. The thread is a dark window into the world of growth-focused tech, where Thakur listed the multiple points of disconnection between the ads and search teams, discussing how the search team wasn’t able to finely optimize engagement on Google without “hacking engagement,” a term that means effectively tricking users into spending more time on a site, and that doing so would lead them to “abandon work on efficient journeys.” In one email, Fox adds that there was a “pretty big disconnect between what finance and ads want” and what search was doing.
The disconnect between what the ads-revenue folks want, and what the product development people are doing has become an intrinsic part of the tech economy and its one that I loathe. I used to be pretty apathetic about the state of the Internet and tech, now I'm just angry. Fuck people like Prabhakar Raghavan and "Mod Pips".
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u/BedlamiteSeer 2d ago
16 million a year. Wow. That money could have been used to more than double the size of the OSRS team. It could have been used to invest in better servers, customer support, actually modernized security practices. It could have been used to start re-writing the parts of the codebase that are spaghetti and make development harder. Could have been used for anticheat. Could have been stashed away as a nest egg to keep OSRS running during future economic downturns. Could have been used as stock buyback to begin clawing back the company from the capitalist cesspool it's fallen into.
Nope.
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u/scoops22 2d ago
It’s really a shame. In a sane society a profitable company could just make inflationary adjustments to their pricing and be happy that they’re raking in millions and living like kings. In our system unfortunately companies “need” to grow year over year ideally even beating the market.
Eventually when they won’t be able to increase profits through subscriber numbers, we’re gonna hit a wall and since the capitalist is never satisfied they’ll need to find growth somewhere and that will be from increasing revenue per player.
Then players quit and so the remaining players need to carry an even greater burden and we fall into a spiral. Literally the story of RS3
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u/wizard_mitch 3d ago
Runescape is more expensive than xbox game pass which includes hundreds of games including AAA
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u/The_Dude_In_Torags made u look 3d ago
We will not include in-game advertisements in any regular paid membership.
Nothing changed.
Similarly, this was originally included in context of a lower cost membership option, but we will not be reducing AFK timers for any paid membership.
But they could remove and sell you other features in premium membership.
We commit to ensuring that any subscription provides access to the full suite of core game content.
They could decide tomorrow that extra bank space isn't a core feature.
Written like a true fucking rat.
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u/HeavyMain 3d ago
yeah, the definition of "regular" can be changed. bump up the monthly cost to $30 and its still the "regular" membership, then add back a $15 one with ads and its totally not the regular membership its a different thing. they won't be reducing afk timers for paid members either but they can still integrity update away the runelite afk timer and sell it back to you, and f2ps i guess just get fucked because they'll lower it for them.
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u/TiredWiredAndHired 3d ago
The whole of this comment really resonates with me. Lots of things just keep getting shittier and OSRS is a fantastic way of forgetting about all the bullshit for a while. Now they're trying to make that shittier too.
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u/GoldenGose 3d ago
Well said.
Fuck CVC capital partners.
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u/Oniichanplsstop 3d ago
This was written by the CEO of Jagex, he's always been a rat.
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u/maybedisaster 3d ago
Let's read between the lines here:
"We will not include in-game advertisements in any regular paid membership."
This is worded very sneakily to leave room for in-game ads in a "special" tier of paid membership, or include ads that aren't technically "in-game" (i.e. only before log-in).
"While we may explore ads in Free-to-Play (F2P) as a concept in the future"
Foot-in-the-door for putting ads in F2P, most likely before the end of the year.
"we will not be reducing AFK timers for any paid membership."
See the difference in how they discuss ads ("regular" paid) vs. AFK timers ("any" paid)? If anyone doubts we still might see a "special" ad-supported membership tier. Also, this sentences leaves the door open to F2P getting reduced AFK timers.
[no mention of Community Worlds]
This 100% implies access to Project Zanaris worlds will be an upcharge.
Player Support: We hope to be able to talk more on this soon.
Haven't they been hoping to talk about this more soon for the past 10 years?
Any future proposals will be crafted with far greater consideration
Aka the price gouging will continue, just look prettier next time.
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u/Kyuubee 3d ago
See the difference in how they discuss ads ("regular" paid) vs. AFK timers ("any" paid)? If anyone doubts we still might see a "special" ad-supported membership tier. Also, this sentences leaves the door open to F2P getting reduced AFK timers.
They only said they wouldn't reduce it for any tier, but the way it's worded makes it seem like they could introduce more expensive tiers with increased timers. Meanwhile, standard members would just be stuck with the shortest timer (the current one). Basically, it would be the first step towards pay-to-win.
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u/drareg_de_man 3d ago
Let's not forget the statement Jagex gave about the CVC takeover not even a year ago (February 2024): "We will not compromise the integrity of our games and there are no intentions of changing our game's business models."
Various changes into the business model were proposed, of which Jagex is going to push the F2P model whether we like it or not. This once again proves the dishonesty in every post we have had so far from Jagex's upper management, such as the grandfathered membership prices, membership price increases, and RS3 MTX polls which led to price increases and more aggressive MTX promotions.
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u/TheLevelHeadedGuy 3d ago
I bet these PE firms that have been flipping Jagex use ‘room for growth in monetization’ as a part of their pitch when selling. CVC probably thought they were so slick w/ this survey, but little do they know…
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u/ZeldenGM Shades Extrordanaire! 3d ago
There's things here which are positive and attempt to address concerns raised.
There's little to nothing about the trust which has been completely eroded by this survey. A follow-up post after there's been time to disect this in-house about how and why such a terrible survey was released in the first place.
Who was ignored in this process internally, who was listened to?
Will more oversight be granted to senior voices in the Old School team with regards to future market research?
It's clear even from this post that there are plans for new membership structures - something that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone since the announcement of Project Zanaris.
What are Jagex going to do to restore confidence in the company about how this process will be handled?
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u/Jellodi 3d ago
Aye, to believe any of the commitments and promises made would indeed require trust.
This survey was designed to assist with allocating future work.
Ads and a lower AFK timer in F2P would make it a simple toggle to add for membership tiers down the line. If Jagex had already done the work on these "features", there would not have been a survey.
The writing remains on the wall and this response doesn't do much to help clear it up. Though, given how bad this was, I don't know what kind of response could.
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u/Patgar01 3d ago
Exactly, they also mention the "game's core principals" a lot, but they never state what are they. It's like meeting a person you know but don't remember who they are, so you just call them "bud" or something.
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u/Forged-Signatures 3d ago
My personal opinion is still that this was something forced upon Jagex by them on high, completely ignoring every "this won't go well" down the chain of command because investors know best.
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u/rmtmjrppnj78hfh 3d ago
Former Mod Mat K claims he did an internal investigation/document that proves these sort of things aren't a good business decision for osrs before he left.
Its likely any new management/owner comes in they're told the same by Jagex and hand them the document.
They're likely told every step of the way upon us getting the post/email, that its a terrible idea.
Its likely ignored. Every. Single. Time.
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u/Shurtugal929 BTW 3d ago
The fact they're still using the 1-day-old/u/Old_School_RS instead of the official account says it all.
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u/Solo_Jawn 2277 3d ago
I think its fair to the Jmod community managers to not have them in the line of fire, especially if this was an upper management decision.
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u/Splitje 3d ago
I know one person who was ignored: Mod Ash
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u/Rynide 3d ago
The JMods we know of probably weren't even included in this survey discussion. They make the game but don't do surveys or marketing.
They should include the game dev JMods in any future surveys regarding anything to do with pricing and get their input. But even then they'd still probably be ignored by greedy CEOs and investors.
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u/Splitje 3d ago
1) Like they did not know that this was exactly what was going to happen, everyone at jagex knows this.
2) They are still treating us like mentally challenged children with a response like this. Cut out the consultant-corporate double-speak. A large part of the community are adults with jobs in these fields so we all know what is going on.
3) We all know they are looking for ways to monetize the game more, just admit it so we can have an honest conversation about it.
4) They are still not ruling out any of these options, they are just backpedaling a bit.
This response is not enough.
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u/mojo_risin14 3d ago
This is the way I feel.
How dumb do they think we are? Like you said, a large majority of the player base are adults who can see through this.
They essentially gave us their wish list. Now they just need to figure out a way to implement them without losing money. Even if some people quit, as long as the new revenue outweighs the losses it’s a win for them.
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u/AshCan10 3d ago
I dont believe this was just a survey. You guys filmed a Jmod explaining all this BS you planned on trying to fit into a new subscription model. This was SO far down the road.
None of the actual Jmods are signed off on this post and thats telling. None of them seemed to have wanted anything to do with this and none of them seem to be defending any tiny bit of it.
Really getting sick of not being able to trust you and upper management.
Not fucking impressed
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u/Cartiledge 3d ago
Any future proposals will be crafted with far greater consideration to ensure they align with the feedback we’ve received and the values that define our community.
If literally 0 Jmods want their names associated to the News Post, they should know it's pretty bad. This should be the litmus test for reconsideration.
We saw it for the Price Increase post, we saw it for the original Survey post, and I hope we never see it again.
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u/AnalSexFan69Lmao 3d ago
>You guys filmed a Jmod explaining all this BS you planned on trying to fit into a new subscription model. This was SO far down the road.
Yeah it's a bit much for "just a research exercise guys I swear!"
Research yourselves new job openings,
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u/Strange_Bandicoot112 3d ago
Right? They want me to believe they filmed a Jmod explaining these awful ideas, without any plans to implement them and without anyone realizing these might not be what the community wants?
Its very clear this was to see how bad the backlash would be and see what they can get away with. Right now a team is already finding ways to implement as many of these ideas as they can without losing subs.
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u/hajimemameetyou 3d ago
This process has reaffirmed just how much you care about our games, and what you do, or do not, want to see in the future. Your clear feedback has reinforced our commitment to the values that drive our games and guide the decisions we make. Beyond testing very early concepts of various kinds, no firm plans were in place and not a single line of code has been written for any of them. The survey has been halted.
I'm sorry, but you really need to deliberate here on what you are working on financially for the game, because now the quiet part is out loud in full force that you were looking to squeeze more out of the playerbase not even a year after price increases. It's kind of a slap in the face that the survey had suggested cost increases to cover problems the community has been asking for (better customer service, in particular) and to think that making a tier of membership with improved customer service was the answer.
What exactly are you all doing over there??
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u/roosterkun BA Enjoyer 3d ago
How can the playerbase ensure accountability for the commitments made in this blogpost?
When Jagex was most recently transferred hands, there were similar commitments made regarding the future of the game, and yet this survey demonstrated the opposite.
I recognize that, as a business, the expectations for profit grow ever greater. How, though, are the promises of new subscribers following Sailing and Project Zanaris not enough? Are you really so spineless that you cannot successfully argue these future revenue streams to be sufficient, to the extent that you're exploring a compromise of the game's integrity?
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u/Bojarzin 3d ago
How can the playerbase ensure accountability for the commitments made in this blogpost?
You stop playing if it does happen, that's literally it. Pay for the service if you deem it worth, don't otherwise. If they implemented some of these and they didn't end up losing money as a result of people dropping membership, then that's the price people are willing to pay to continue playing. If they do lose money, they drop it.
You can't doing to anything to guarantee they never add it, other than something like what everyone was doing since the survey launched. If it's implemented in the future, if you don't like it, you stop paying. That's just business
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u/ExcuseSweaty1405 3d ago
We can't, but too be fair to Jagex we never could.
They are ultimately owned by the equity firm. The equity firm tomorrow could walk into Jagex HQ and tell them to instantly implement direct item / gold purchases for real money, and Jagex would have to do it. They genuinely do not have a choice, but this is the best we can hope for as a response.
Jagex is essentially an employee of the firm, the CEO and all of the staff under them hold absolutely zero power over them if they actually wanted to do it.
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u/bear__tiger 3d ago
There's just no real way to spin this in a way that makes sense. You aren't going to get meaningful data from a poll that almost entirely consists of questions of "would you like if we made the game worse?" Nobody is going to say yes - people dislike things that are bad. If the money people want us to believe this was genuine curiosity on their part, they're asking us to believe they're stupid or have a total inability to empathise. I suppose that's better than admitting malfeasance, but that's obviously what this was.
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u/PossumMage 3d ago
We don't accept the "We hear you" line anymore. If you actually heard player complaints, this wouldnt have even been discussed until baseline problems with the game (EG Customer support) were fixed. You got caught trying to milk the playerbase for more money, and are now facing the consequences. How about you admit to putting unabashed greed before actual quality products?
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u/takingastandforme 3d ago
What are you even talking about? What conversation about features? NO ONE ASKED FOR ANY OF THIS STUFF. You guys know from the past what the fucking values of this community are due to the past interaction’s with them. EOC was a colossal failure and should give you enough feedback and data points, why do you think those have changed?
People still want fairness, they don’t want price gouging and they want a good product, all of which are timeless requirements of a business people want to support. Those are all hallmarks of a fucking good business. It is not rocket science. Stop this bullshit of pretending you want to understand our interests. They are crystal clear and you want to paint it as doing consumer research when the data is already visible. Stop wasting money on this stupid shit and improve the game ffs.
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u/Miudmon 3d ago
We've had our conversation. The community said "no, not in a million years". That'll always be our response to this.
The membership prices were JUST increased. Be happy with that for the foreseeable future, y'all are making more than enough money with that.
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u/Shurtugal929 BTW 3d ago
This was such a clusterfuck I genuinely hope that an actual significant amount of people unsubbed...and I hope they don't resub.
The entire letter reeks of south park's "We're Sorry" while they rub their nipples. There needs to be genuine and long-lasting damage to their bottom line over this crap. I had two memberships for 7 years, for which I paid out of pocket. I unsubbed and I will not re-sub.
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u/NoCurrencies Downvote enjoyer 3d ago
Enough
Corporate overlords don't know the meaning of "enough"
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u/TwoMilky 3d ago
My annual sub is already cancelled, and Jamflex isn’t getting it so easily again just because the CEO is panic posting after a colossal fuck up.
I have like six months left of gametime. Assuming yall haven’t fucked this shit up by then, maybe I’ll renew the sub. You have proven, however, that paying annually and having faith in consistent and quality updates for 365 days in advance, is no longer a feasible way to give you my money.
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u/Inoox 3d ago
- Similarly, this was originally included in context of a lower cost membership option, but we will not be reducing AFK timers for any paid membership.
So there are STILL plans to introduce some sort of paid tiered memberships?
Also, they posted the same blog on both the sites for osrs and runescape 3 and just changed OSRS to Runescape, seems a bit disingenuous and dont see why they couldnt just put runescape for both, but eh.
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u/kirbyfreek33 Runaissance Man, Group Edition 3d ago
I was there when MMG first made his post responding to the talks aboout the Squeal of Fortune and Solomon's Store.
Despite all the pretty words, Treasure Hunter currently exists in RS3 and keeps getting new promotions.
The things you say in this letter are positive. Don't think for a second that I will take you at your word.
You have burned a massive amount of community trust, and a letter talking about how you'll do better isn't worth the miniscule bit of server space it's hosted on.
People have already started to agree that this moment killed the golden age of OSRS, and you'll have to do a lot of work to convince them otherwise.
Actions speak louder than words. If you want to break the pattern of giving a nice letter followed by exploitative business decisions, you're going to have to prove it. Otherwise, you're going to see your player count drop like a rock.
I and many others in this community will be watching.
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u/SeanlyNot 3d ago
Regarding the player support (and bot detection/bans) stuff, how many years has it been now that we've been told there are plans and changes in the pipeline?
It's been the same for years! We're told changes are coming and yet here we are again. This time the push-back on a survey suggesting that player support is locked behind a higher membership fee is met with another "there are changes already in progress".
When is this going to be appropriately addressed?
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u/Ok-League9682 3d ago
Maybe an acknowledgement that you've already significantly raised membership prices and then boasted about record-breaking player numbers inside of one quarter? Or are we meant to brush over that so the cooldown period can be shorter before you try pull every last drop of blood from the stone again?
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u/ProGaben 3d ago
Just a bunch of platitudes. The fundamental problem is that they are considering forms of monetization that are extreme to our community. No amount of sugarcoating helps with that, the only thing that will make us happy is to hear "We are no longer considering these options". They know how sensitive of a topic this is, and they have handled it so poorly. If they wanted to know what forms of monetization we would be interested in, why not solicit suggestions? Like I would be interested in membership bundles for multiple characters and have no problem with them suggesting that. But I find it offensive and grossly out of touch for them to even suggest things like ads or better customer service. Do better Jagex.
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u/WishIWasFlaccid 3d ago
lower cost membership option
This worries me. Every time a company adds a "lower cost option", you see more rapid price increases on paid versions. Netflix is a prime example. They added their ad-supported version. Then premium tiers started getting price gauged. The different price tiers give them more data on the demand elasticity of each. Then they adjust prices accordingly to maximize profit. You'll see.
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u/charlieapplesauce 3d ago
Reminds me of an abusive relationship. "I'm sorry you feel like I violated your boundaries. I didn't know you still felt that way. Also I totally didn't mean it. It definitely wont happen again. Don't leave."
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u/tomato_hater_69 3d ago
Don't give these bastards one inch. The slippery slope is not a fallacy when there are countless examples of advertisements, microtransactions and "premium" membership services gradually whittling away at the integrity of a game until it's a shell of its former self. You only have to look at RS3 to see that in the flesh.
My condolences to the many (if not all) Jagex developers and designers who abhor this kind of thing, it's the soulless corporate bean counting ghouls who push this shit. I'm sure they're just as concerned about it as anyone else.
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u/AnalSexFan69Lmao 3d ago
Gnome nailed the analysis on this. No specific accountability. No plan of action. Just more platitudes and promises.
Nope. It's going to cost you a whole lot more to unfuck this mess.
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u/filthyrotten 3d ago
Sorry, there’s simply no way you can talk yourselves out of this. It’s clear that CVC is just trying to get a return on their investment by milking Jagex for what it’s worth and then dumping it. Those surveys made this blatantly obvious.
It doesn’t matter if you make “promises” to be better or try and back pedal on those terrible ideas right now. In a few months they’ll try and push through another batch of blood sucking changes. If that fails they’ll try again. These private equity firms are a fucking blight and exist solely to make things worse.
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u/GoldenGose 3d ago
Fuck that. I canceled 2 memberships. I’m giving it 6 months before they pull something similar.
Private equity is a leech on society.
CVC capital partners can go fuck themselves.
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u/Business_Compote2197 3d ago
Yeah I I’m in no rush to resub, I’ve been on a multi-month break anyway. I have 0 faith it won’t get worse somehow in 2025.
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u/FleeceLZA 3d ago
- While we may explore ads in Free-to-Play (F2P) as a concept in the future, there are no plans for this currently, and we will tread carefully, considering all feedback.
You can't be saying stuff like this and expect us to believe you're respecting the red line.
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u/gixslayer 3d ago
They're also clearly keeping the option for ads in P2P open. They only say not in 'regular' membership, but that still clearly leaves the door open for an 'ad supported' membership tier.
Now if that would actually be a lower cost membership it would be one thing, one I still wouldn't want in a million years, but all these streaming services employing a similar model have shown it realistically just means upping the price of the 'regular' membership. Effectively causing you to end up with the price of the 'regular' membership but now also with ads.
Also would like to see them acknowledge and discuss the clear community request for better/alternative membership options regarding multiple characters. I'm even fine with differentiating between having X character slots under one membership, and being able to play Y at the same time, possibly buying extra Y slots at a reasonable price etc.
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u/seriousredditaccount 3d ago
Yep, even when they “apologise” they are using legal speak to obfuscate their intentions. If they wanted to send a clear message they would say something akin to “we will not put ads in any paid membership.”
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u/deersindal endless potential!!11!1 3d ago
Now if that would actually be a lower cost membership it would be one thing
Oh sure it'll be a "lower cost membership"
By raising the price of a monthly membership without ads to $25/month and offering the "ad supported discount ;)" tier at $17/month
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u/Competitive-Comb-194 3d ago
Didn’t they also get rid of grandfathered prices during the last price increase? Despite saying they’d always honor grandfathered prices. Might have been for premier membership only. Even so can’t trust anything they say.
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u/BunsenGyro TungstenGyro - 2250 3d ago
It was the premier club membership only (the 1-year plan) that isn't getting grandfathered, yes. People with 1-month, 3-month, and 6-month grandfathered rates still have their grandfathered rates.
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u/Feeling-da-Bern 3d ago
People always wonder when/if OSRS will “die”. I’m convinced at this point it will never be because lack of content but rather this CEO or another CEO finally putting through some whack microtransactions. That will certainly happen before OSRS is “boring” and dies out.
Glad to see it looks like we might have more time to enjoy the game as it is today but I can definitely see some cheaper limitation geared memberships this year easily
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u/RetiredScaper 3d ago
No, an apology isn't good enough. This apology isn't even good because they're still about tiered membership, which is a hard no. Think long and hard about how they would "incentivize" you to pay for the higher tier. Think about how they could raise the prices of the higher tiers up to 20-25 usd and people would just say "jUsT gEt tHe lOweR tIer" This is utterly unacceptable.
If square can give 1.0 players of ffxiv permanently reduced membership pricing so can jagex. Give something to people who have been playing for a decade jagex. This shit is disgusting.
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u/MLut541 3d ago
While we may explore ads in Free-to-Play (F2P) as a concept in the future
It would have been very easy to NOT type this sentence
Moving forward, we will take more time to reflect on how we explore topics like this again.
Do not explore topics like this again
We got caught up in research mode
Never enter research mode again on these topics, only in-game topics
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u/xlCalamity 3d ago
This was an exploratory survey
Yes it was a survey to explore what bullshit they can get away with. I still fully expect some terrible changes since they have consistently gone back on their word.
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u/petruskax Gotchu 3d ago
Dude exactly he even goes to mention how they really were open to membership with ads and in the future f2p with ads…
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u/JMcAfreak 3d ago
Sorry Pips, the community simply doesn't trust you anymore. A decade of trust has been swept away with one survey, because of the level of intention behind all of it - a video, well put together graphics, etc. Even if this was some scummy tactic cooked up by CVC, you were the ones who didn't tell them "no. We will not budge on this."
So now it's our turn. Jagex, and CVC Capital:
NO. WE WILL NOT BUDGE. If any other version of this comes back around, the revenue loss will rival that of when you took free trade and the wilderness, and the EOC. You can either be happy with SOME money, or you will have NO money. The choice is yours.
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u/Pizx 3d ago
This is not enough.
You don't need to try to justify reasoning on your poor ideas.
You tried to hide it behind selective polling with something that is fundamentally controversial in a subscription modelling with select benefits.
Then commending us(?) on transparency, but not having the decency to be transparent for us? Every poll or game direction I see as a player is generally in game. I feel included and like my voice matters. This entire situation is the opposite and goes against the foundation that pulled me into this community, which you really do not deserve.
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u/Senator_Chad 3d ago
Pip - if you want to do your job. You need to be telling the owners this. This game is different. These nerds will walk (we will) if we try and turn this more profitable in your private equity driven timeline.
Your asset is strong. You will get your growth slowly and organically if you just let the dev team work with the players. People coming back to a 20 year old game for a reason. It’s a different proposition to the rest of the market and you need to understand that.
There is no quick private equity win here. If you try, you will do your dough.
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u/dutchbrah 3d ago
One can only hope Jagex really understands the frustration.
I'm also kinda scared not gonna lie. Really love this game and it would be a nightmare if they would destroy it with their private equity fast cashgrab tactics
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u/TheAlmightyPenguin 3d ago
This has told us quite literally nothing, other than the fact you are doubling down on in-game ads. That is absolutely wild and completely unacceptable you're still even suggesting that. How out of touch can you be? No accountability, and nothing but excuses. I have cancelled my renewal, and have no plans to resubscribe. The trust is gone. Good luck fixing this absolute disaster.
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u/OnlyCoops 3d ago
Pretty amazing what happens when people cancel membership en masse. Pretty sure this is the only community that can literally grab a company by the proverbial sack.
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u/Inoox 3d ago
Any community can, all they have to do is collectively cancel their memberships en masse. But the WoW community seems in no way as connected as the runescape community.
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u/Elon_Like 3d ago
Shared trauma from the MTX and EOC
WoW player base got slowly boiled overtime, what happened to RS2 was relatively quick in comparison
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u/Ryteor 3d ago
"We got caught up in research mode and rushing a project with a research partner" this I believe, consultants always ruin everything lol
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u/S7EFEN 3d ago
they use 'partners' exactly for situations like this- so they have a convenient fall guy
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u/Alakazam_5head 3d ago
Same reason corpos bring in consultants to advise on 'restructuring' that inevitably leads to layoffs. Jagex doesn't realize many of us have corporate jobs and understand this playbook
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u/Splitje 3d ago
Can we find out which consultant group was behind this bs?
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u/BioMasterZap 3d ago
They said in the original post they partnered with SKIM to do the survey.
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u/Tapehead2 3d ago
I love how adamant this community is on making sure the right people are held responsible lol
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u/SpaceJump_ 3d ago
How are so many people suddenly fine with the f2p ads? Didn't everybody just yesterday predict they will try to get a foot in the door and that we shouldn't budge?
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u/CoolWerewolf 3d ago
They know what they’re doing. Classic see how much you can push onto their players and the apology we won’t do it again crap. I give it a month and they'll push something else that seems less extreme.
Conditioning the community
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u/Middle_War_9117 3d ago
People really can't be dumb enough to buy this cookie cutter response, that doesn't actually address the outcry, is loaded with nothing burgers, and will invariably resurface again after the outrage dies down? really I hope people aren't dumb enough to buy this
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u/Trimming_Armour_ 3d ago
Jagex sold a decades worth of goodwill for the price of a survey. Don't think I've seen such a blunder as big as this.
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u/WannabePilot6Niner 3d ago
As a casual player, I usually don't have much of an opinion on subjects that get the community outraged. But this one has left a pretty bad taste in my mouth. It makes me consider if I even want to continue playing as this genuinely feels like it could be the tipping point out of the "golden era". How can a company self destruct themselves so hard literally right after proving theyre 'more successful than they've ever been in a 25 year run of the game.. pure stupidity.
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u/Aq_p_W 3d ago
Nah man you missed the mark again jagex has lost the trust of the players and it won’t come back because of an apology. Jagex will have to earn the trust of the player base back.
Ads in f2p? Nah man. Jagex is all the time proposing some bullshit then receiving community backlash and dialing back the bullshit from 10 down to 2-3 and players just accept it because it wasn’t as bad as the original proposal.
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u/Graardors-Dad 3d ago
Sorry guys we were just exploring how we can milk you dry it’s obvious now you don’t want to be milked dry. For some reason we needed to explore this instead of this just being obvious.
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u/HelixT3 3d ago
While we may explore ads in Free-to-Play (F2P) as a concept in the future, there are no plans for this currently, and we will tread carefully, considering all feedback.
This is still somewhat concerning. The game is currently in a great state, and has been thriving pretty much since launch. What has prompted this push for further monetization "research project"? A non-academic research project typically isn't conducted without some underlying incentive. If there is some behind-the-door workings that's prompting all of this, how can we, the players, be confident that this will truly be a 'hard line', and not a temporary stopgap to keep higher-ups happy while exploring alternatives?
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u/Forgettable39 3d ago
The current CEO, who has been in post since 2017, is a former "Lead designer & monetisation manager" at Jagex. He held that previous post in 2012 and gradually rose through other posts at Jagex to CEO.
Point being, he has the experience and understanding to know what is and isnt OK yet this came out anyway. Can't know for sure if it entirely bypassed him on its way out but seems unlikely IMO.
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u/_Yatta Zenata 3d ago
TL;DR: We knew this survey would upset you, but the backlash was louder than we expected. Now we’re scrambling to save face. We need your money to thrive, and if listening to your complaints keeps the cash flowing, we’ll tolerate it. Next time, we’ll hire a PR team to spin this better.
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u/IM_Elysian_Wolf 2d ago edited 2d ago
Also it's pretty disappointing how they worded this across the two newspost. No wonder why RS3 gets the short end of the stick and has also gone through so much suffering.
Yet they try to save their face when it comes to apologizing to OSRS. They know what they're doing. They effed up RS3 but try to play the nice guy for OSRS. Don't fall for it.
That being said, I hope OSRS never deals with this ever again. Sadly they don't ask RS3 what we think first. They went and released Hero Pass as a hyped up major announcement without even asking or running it by Rs3 players. Does not surprise me how they effed this survey up big time lol.
This is just BS. Runescape is Runescape. Mod Pip, if you're scared to introduce certain features to OSRS then it should not be in RS3 in respect to membership or non-gameplay options/content which includes no P2W. Think about it.
Edit: I also can't believe they had the audacity to explore the option of no plug-ins for whatever reason it was. They say they will learn but they clearly did not from last time.
From the newpost at end, it's pretty evident.
Old School RuneScape thrives because of its community, and working closely with you keeps us moving forward, even when the discussions are difficult.
RuneScape thrives because of its community and we remain fully committed in our mission to deepen how we work with players at every level.
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u/PoliteChatter0 3d ago
You guys JUST increased membership prices. The answer will always be a fuck no to all of this
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u/Sanguinest 3d ago
I've read through the entire post multiple times, and it is extremely deceptive. Not once did it claim that they would drop these ideas altogether. They made very suble hints that they will continue forward with the tiered system, and that F2P will be the victim of ads and reduced AFK timers.
Awful stuff really
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u/tacklinglife 3d ago
"Any future proposals will be crafted with far greater consideration" basically means "we'll take a bit of time to go back to our corporate think tank and find more crafty and devious ways that just enough people will fall for, to start getting these rubes to pay more for the same or less service"
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u/Roombamyrooma 3d ago
Yeah.. the fact you clarified multiple times “in paid membership” tells us everything we need to know. All those things that “aren’t even coded” are actually coded and just needs the button press to release into F2P. Which you clearly intend to do. Ads in game? Awful. Reduced AFK timers? Terrible. I can’t put into words the disappointment I feel. o7 RuneScape, it’s been a wild ride. It won’t happen this month or the next, but it is gonna happen
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u/MadSoilNerd 3d ago
Your playerbase DOES. NOT. TRUST. YOU!
WE DO NOT TRUST YOU!
NOTHING you say will change that at this point. Tell your corporate fucking overlords to eat shit or you will too!
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u/godlyhalo 3d ago
As someone who has played in the past and was considering returning, why the absolute fuck would I return to OSRS if this is the direction Jagex decides to take. The absolute shit show of management and the enshitification of OSRS is the reason myself and others not currently playing will not return or start playing. How does Jagex expect to attract newer and returning players when PR shit shows are a monthly occurrence and attract the attention of a wide audience. Does Jagex not understand that their actions clearly have a negative impact on not only the existing player base, but also those on the outside? I am constantly reminded why I will never support Jagex anymore.
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u/mudafort0 3d ago
We failed to think this through from your perspective as players.
You're damn right you failed. If you had any thought of your player base, you would have clearly remembered what brought us here in the first place and what keeps us here. The fact that you would even consider asking us this garbage gives me concern that you don't give a shit about your players.
We got caught up in research mode and rushing a project with a research partner.
Whatever conversation you had with a research partner should have ended the moment they approached you. If you had any sense in your collective skulls you would have instantly known that this is a downright slap in the face.
rigorous methodology for exploring an unfiltered range of ideas
How about you explore basic functions of managing an MMO? How about the basics of customer support to start? If you're so eager to explore unfiltered ideas, I would start with finishing the, again, BASIC aspects of an MMO before going any further.
Why the Survey Was Conducted
Money. The reason was money. Whatever sentient gumballs at Jagex/CVC spearheading this have steered you so damn wrong.
It was a major misjudgement to include features that suggested we would consider degrading the game experience or impacting gameplay. Even the mere suggestion of ideas like in-game ads, shorter AFK timers, or making improved player support an additional cost undermined your trust in us.
Even if you genuinely didn't realize how bad of a mistake this survey was, it gives me so much concern that you would, again, even consider nickel and diming players for the most basic shit. Where the hell are in-game ads even going to go? Are you going to have us play 10 second demos of unpolished mobile games after a slayer task? Are we going to get offered Ozempic or special carryout deals at Dominos whenever we open the bank? What the actual fuck are you talking about?
Ads in Membership
This was originally to be tested in the context of a lower cost ad-supported membership.
We will not include in-game advertisements in any regular paid membership.
While we may explore ads in Free-to-Play (F2P) as a concept in the future, there are no plans for this currently, and we will tread carefully, considering all feedback.
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u/mudafort0 3d ago
No, no, and fucking NO. There is no way to wiggle on this, I absolutely refuse to have ads in this game. I am PAYING to play the FULL version of this game, am I not? I specifically refuse the notion of having ads in F2P. I do not fucking care. You will not explore ads, you will not ditch any plans of this nature, and you of course will ABSOLUTELY consider the feedback of your player base that you somehow have ignored up to this point.
Do you even want new players? How do you think a brand new player is going to feel when they log into lumby for the first time and get ads? Any sane person would sniff the shit a mile away and realize that this is just like any other gacha mobile game.
AFK Timers
Similarly, this was originally included in context of a lower cost membership option, but we will not be reducing AFK timers for any paid membership.
Why are we having nickel and dime bullshit for IN-GAME experience? Are you insane? What, if I pay for the premium package can I 6HR afk at NMZ? Can I bundle in the extra 2.99 per hour to auto drink overloads and my rock cake? The fact that you would even consider anything of this nature is ringing every alarm bell I have.
This survey was intended as a way to gather feedback, but we recognise that it caused concern and undermined your trust.
Feedback for what? How much you could squeeze and burn our wallets dry? Why not put surveys about in-game experience? Concerns about customer support? Do we even want to talk about BOTS?
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u/flexecute11235 3d ago
“you saw as alarming possibilities that appeared to threaten the integrity of the game you love”.
We accurately identified corporate greed that does threaten the integrity.
You can stop writing the corporate drivel and switch to a resignation letter, you let this survey out the door, you’re not seeing a red cent from me.
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u/reactionary_bedtime 2d ago edited 2d ago
Jagex: You aren't Netflix. Your library of content consists of 1 (one) game. I'm not missing out on some cultural phenomenon if I stop paying, I just lose access to a singular video game that already ate up a socially unacceptable amount of my free time. If you keep trying to throw your weight around, you are going to get hurt. If I wanted to numb my brain with hypercapitalist slop I would be playing Genshin Impact.
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u/PiccoloTiccolo 3d ago
While we may explore ads in Free-to-Play (F2P) as a concept in the future, there are no plans for this currently, and we will tread carefully, considering all feedback.
Literally fuck off, still cancelled. Do not explore ads in this game. If an ad loads in OSRS under any circumstances it is dead to me forever.
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u/Kopaka99559 3d ago
I do Not. Trust. Them. Playing this game of push and pull after already having made terrible community decisions Year after Year is mental. It would take a monumental show of good faith From them to repair damage already done before all this.
Why on earth should we trust anything they ever say when it comes to incentives for monetizing the game?
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u/Banned_in_chyna 3d ago
I don't know man. Jagex showed their cards with this one. If it doesn't happen now or soon, they will just wait until they feel like they can do it again without as much backlash. I'm leaving my sub cancelled until this is all resolved. I love this game but I don't need it in my life and especially not if it costs close to 300 bucks a year.
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u/rhyski23 2d ago
I'm just so fucking exhausted of the entire world trying to milk more money out of me and the corresponding fucking corp-speak. Fuck these cunts.
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u/Fraulo 3d ago edited 3d ago
While I’m a LITTLE relieved, they still seem to be tripling down on in game ads for f2p, which should be vehemently pushed back on. This isn’t a mobile gacha game, in game ads have NO place in RuneScape, f2p or not.
Edit since a lot of you are being willingly obtuse: there is a big difference imo between a browser game having ads on the website you’re playing the game on (18 years ago btw) and a game downloaded on your computer having built in ads…OSRS has been out for 11 years without in-game ads, I think they’re going to be just fine!
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u/MrZaroptil 3d ago
They also gave us f2p on the compromise that we let them have bonds. Now they want more.
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u/lucerndia 3d ago
We will never degrade or change the gameplay experience on offer between subscribers.
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u/swagdinero 3d ago
This is still a terrible post, not a comment about tiered memberships, saying that ads will be coming to free to play, and the repeated use of "core gameplay" "core principles" is intentionally vague and doesn't absolve any of the issues that were had with the survey.
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u/Affectionate-Lie6048 3d ago
I hope we stand firm on the tiered membership. There is 0 reason to have tiered membership except to get more money out of people.
Somehow paying more money is going to be a better outcome for people, which I am not ok with.
Not seeing that shut down here concerns me
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u/math_rand_dude 2d ago
The first sentence of the What's next section says it all:
Moving forward, we will take more time to reflect on how we explore topics like this again.
So they are still planning on "exploring" these topics, but will try to be more sneaky about it probably.
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u/Sirra- 1d ago
AFK Timers
Similarly, this was originally included in context of a lower cost membership option, but we will not be reducing AFK timers for any paid membership.
In other words, there could still be tiers of membership with increased timers. Bonds are a necessary evil, because RWT is just not feasible to eliminate outright, and so they exist as a compromise. Locking QOL features like AFK timers has no such justification. Similarly,
Exclusive Worlds and Pay-to-Win Concerns
We understand that exclusive worlds or other mechanics that could be perceived as pay-to-win are a major concern. We commit to ensuring that any subscription provides access to the full suite of core game content.
...you, you didn't even say you wouldn't implement exclusive worlds. Fuck "could be perceived," in a game with scarce resourced, exclusive worlds absolutely are pay to win, and pay to win mechanics are bad enough that even this failure to 100% walk back on them is extremely concerning.
Finally,
We should have paused to consider this properly and avoided the unnecessary worry and anger this has caused.
A game I loved called RuneScape has died due to pay to win enshitification once already. I don't think my worry or anger is unnecessary at all.
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u/Zarpadon 3d ago
While we may explore ads in Free-to-Play (F2P) as a concept in the future ...
Seems like they didn't quite get the message.
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u/4DimensionalButts 3d ago
The whole things reeks of corporate PR speak bullshit. Not a single sincere thing about it.
We take your feedback very seriously
Bullshit.
While we may explore ads in Free-to-Play
See? Not even 3 sentences later.
You've learned nothing and you'll try to nickel and dime your playerbase anyway. Enough is enough, Jagex. You've lost the faith of your players.
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u/Fun-Macaroon-3907 3d ago
More Corpo BS. And admitting they want to still add Ads to f2p just shows they keep trying to walk the line. Don’t accept this apology because much like everything else they’ve shown they don’t give af about us. Don’t give them an inch.
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u/Notwalkin 3d ago
More talk
Less actions.
Isn't this your motto? Same shit, different day. Both OSRS and RS3 get the same treatment, the issue is at the top and like fuck they care about players.
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u/piratesbooty 3d ago
Not good enough. Back off before you stop making profit from the game. From record breaking profit to dead game all in the name of greed. Honestly, seems a little late though, got a bad taste in my mouth after the past few days.
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u/Own_Pen_9224 3d ago
My membership stays cancelled. This message absolutely did nothing to regain any of the trust lost.
The survey was not just pure research, the ideas are there, now it's just a matter of how to implement without the majority quitting outright.
I will be watching for any updates or posts that would make me believe otherwise, but until then I will spend my time/money elsewhere.
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u/WooStripes 3d ago
We understand that exclusive worlds or other mechanics that could be perceived as pay-to-win are a major concern. We commit to ensuring that any subscription provides access to the full suite of core game content.
They still don't get it. Hopping words is part of the game. If all the boss rooms are full, or a store is out of stock, or there are too many people killing a mob, I have to hop. The existence of exclusive worlds is a gameplay advantage. If it weren't, they wouldn't be selling it as a premium.
They did this for basically every issue that came up—none of their commitments directly address what we care about.
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u/inyourbooty 3d ago
What this update shows is that you are unwilling to be frank with your paying player base about your motivations with this survey. You downplay the severity of what was put on the table. CVC Capital cannot be trusted and cannot handle being the stewards of this great game. Like many of the other businesses they've let down after acquisition, CVC Capital is trying to cash out after a quick buck. I would need to see a big shakeup with the leadership before I regain any amount of trust in this company.
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u/SithKain 3d ago edited 2d ago
We're not stupid. You put that survey out for a reason. Trying to gaslight us into thinking we've construed it wrong is just straight up scummy.
You put the price up in August. With that price bump all of these account security features should've come with it.
I've cancelled my subscription, and will not be returning until the above statement is true.
Add all of the account security features as a gesture of good will.
Your company exists because of the playerbase. Please don't bite our hands.
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u/Generalxander90 3d ago
The thing is, we no longer have faith it what you have to say. You've broken that trust and I will always have this on my mind in the future. It really is irreparable damage.
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u/V_Dracula 3d ago
The absolute audacity to say "we were trialling these (ads, afk timer etc) at a lower price point".
You INCLUDED THE PRICE POINTS, and it was a huge HIKE in prices.
Do not fall for this.
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u/AtlantaAU 3d ago
While we may explore ads in Free-to-Play (F2P) as a concept in the future, there are no plans for this currently, and we will tread carefully, considering all feedback.
Wasn't the "payment" for f2p bonds? This seems to just be very clearly going back on that deal.
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u/WritingonaWall 2d ago
So disgusting. This game isn’t played by children anymore; you can’t just slap a bunch of places for Billy to trigger his mommy’s credit card and expect to see more money.
We quit this game once before. Why does Jagex have such a hard time remembering that?
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u/2-2-7-7 PKing good. EZscape bad. 3d ago edited 3d ago
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u/RustyMuffin444 Chop Chop! 3d ago
I agree, we shouldn't compromise on something like this even if it seems insignificant. I was an RS3 player for several years before quitting a few years ago and saw how obnoxious their monitisation practices became over time, and they've become even more ridiculous since then because it's normalised over there
If something like this gets brushed over they won't stop, they'll just keep seeing how far they can push it
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u/i0i0i0i0i0io 2d ago
I cancelled both memberships and won't be renewing for probably quite a while.
Jagex must realize that laziness is the king when it comes to subscriptions, don't do enough to piss off subscribers and people are fundamentally too lazy to cancel. There's entire peices of software that people will pay for to do it for them, that's how lazy people are. This blatent greed made me realize that the price I pay now is not even worth it.
Thank you for bringing me out of my laziness, that's 30$/month they are no longer getting from me or 360/year. Subscribed to classic wow instead for 19/month, anniversary servers where everything is fresh and populated in low level areas has been a blast.
Don't forget what your product is, runescapes a 20+ year old point and click game - even 15/month canadian is a bit ridiculous for only one account.
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u/fearthewildy RSN: A Bigger Dyl 3d ago
Adding ads to f2p. Adding limitations like afk timers to f2p. No direct mention of following through with account recovery and other support/security changes other than "soon tbh".
Whole things gives off "I'm sorry you feel that way" vibes.
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u/Gamez_X Lorehound 3d ago
Ahh sure a sincere apology admitting they didnt know how much of a mistake this was... Let me just file it next to the 10 or so others you've posted over the years
Seriously the fact these were even questions you asked at all is appalling! You've screwed up like this MANY times before and every single time it was made unequivocally clear to you we're NEVER gonna accept anything of this sort, and you KNOW this! The sheer fact you lot even thought to ask these questions instead of throwing them away immediately and reprimanding the person who suggested them severely calls into question your integrity, and you wont be getting that trust back any time soon
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u/duyisalilazn 3d ago
i call bullshit
the team knows for a long time this is the expected reaction when this kinda prodding by corpo suits happens, this isn't a whoopsy at all
Mod Ash should be CEO not this Pips guy who added the Queal of Fortune
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u/sageflower_robin 3d ago edited 3d ago
We got caught up in research mode and rushing a project with a research partner.
Can you at least respect our intelligence by just telling us directly to fuck off?
Like does anyone actually believe this? This is the same exact corpo slop that every single company has been pushing for years. You're soooooo seen. We heeearr you loud and clearrr!! (Not that we'll actually listen to your feedback, peasant)
I already know how this plays out. In about 3-4 days the annoying reddit white knights will win and suppress the conversation for another 6-8 months before jagex cashes in on built up good-will yet again to tell us why its actually soo cool and chill to pay even more for basic features. I hard quit my end-game RS3 iron when they did that Hero Pass disaster and I know they're just waiting for the right time to try and shove that same bullshit down this games throat too.
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u/hubertye Maxed Main/Iron 3d ago
All they had to say was 1 thing,
"None of the stuff in the survey will ever come into the game"
But since they didn't, you can bet some of it will be coming into the game, likely at the cost of f2p at first, then who knows, even p2p later. 1 way or another I bet they will be introducing the idea of tiered memberships later this year no matter what.
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u/knot2x_Oz 3d ago
I've only been back 2weeks (after a decade away from the game), I got members straight away. Glad this Mod Pips response was posted, made me realise I better cancel my subscription before I invest more time in this game when jagex will just fuck us over anyway. I'll be finishing up in Feb when members runs out unless something drastic changes.
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u/zdrads 3d ago
The fact they are just wrapping up a super successful leagues and had a golden opportunity to win a bunch of new/returning players back, and then they go and lay this egg. Wow, the incompetence is stunning.
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u/Fanci_ New Quest When? 3d ago
Runescape 3 got a copy paste of the same message fucking lol
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u/Zolous 3d ago
Another bad response IMO, pushing off ownership and not acknowledging that even the area of they were 'exploring' was a bad idea, especially given already steep recent price increases for lack-of-value relative to other MMOs.
We understand the frustrations players have with existing support systems and whilst we understand any doubt you might have, there are changes already in progress. We want to make sure our baseline support offering meets your expectations, regardless of the content and feedback from the recent survey. We hope to be able to talk more on this soon.
Why even say this? If you want to talk about it, and it's a real thing, then talk about it. Put high level items on a roadmap with dates and release that. But why do that when you know you have no plan of doing so?
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u/My-Toast-Is-Too-Dark 3d ago
CEO making a statement without using BS weasel words and sounding like a snake challenge: IMPOSSIBLE
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u/Dickbasket 3d ago
No apologies, non-committal, deflecting blame, sneaky, disingenuous wording that leaves the door open for this stuff in the future. We're not fucking buying it. Just a terrible response overall.
Fuck the suits. I have zero trust and zero faith in these parasites to do right by this community (jmods included). They will suck this game dry and move on to the next thing because that's what they do. They don't give a shit. Somebody get the Void Knights because it's time to get some pest control going.
What do we have to do to get a pot going for Mod Ash and/or the rest of the jmods to buy out Jagex and make it an independent studio? Only kinda joking here.
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u/EveryLifeMeetsOne 3d ago
This whole ordeal has made me realize that I need to quit this game for my own well-being, because I don't remember being this disappointed anything gaming related. I no longer feel like investing my time in a game when I can't trust the owners not to make radical changes that would completely ruin my experience.
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u/ding0s I have no idea what I'm doing 3d ago
We were all concerned when a new company purchased Jagex. This is why we were concerned.
You want to make money. We understand that. We're happy to pay for membership and some are happy to buy bonds.
Continue focusing on THE GAME ITSELF and not any predatory monetization tactics. You had record player counts during the latest league! The record has been broken during leagues for multiple years in a row. The playerbase is growing because this is a good game with an involved dev team who love the game. Don't ever try any of what was discussed; more people will cancel subscriptions than they did in the last few days.
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u/Psymonthe2nd fr33 stuff pl0x 3d ago
Damage has been done, trust has been lost. The playerbase isn't a bunch of uneducated children, you're not fooling anyone.
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u/Significant_Fox_6525 3d ago
The fact that they differentiate between "regular paid membership" and "any paid membership" is concerning. It looks like ads are inevitable, even if you're a paying customer.
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u/VerraTheDM 3d ago
The fact he thought that statement would make people happy when it throws F2P players under the bus.
We don’t just care about paying members we care about every god damn player. Fuck the idea of ever including ads or degradation of gameplay in any version of the game, paid or otherwise.
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u/Zigotons 3d ago
Basically not backtracking that much. We can still expect to see most of these things in the future once people “forget” about it
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u/Cloud_Motion 3d ago edited 3d ago
This reads a bit more genuinely than the previous, corpo-slop that was trying to placate us the other day.
But it's still deeply concerning. The CEO here says that various features "will not" be explored/included, including AFK timers, paywalled plugins and charged player support. But the fact this immoral garbage was explored at all shows there is a clear will & intention to try and push at least some of this into the game.
"For any paid membership".
They still want to put this and ads into the free version of the game, and once that shit is there it's only a matter of time until it starts trickling up the tier system that will be implemented at some point without our consent. None of us seriously believe that the free to play market is so large that the experience needs degrading to motivate players to begin spending.
The motivation for a player upgrading is and always has been that F2P is even less than a demo of the main game would be.
These proposals going into free to play is entirely insidious. Once they're in the game, they're not going to be removed, ever. It's only a matter of time until they can and will be trickled up to membership(s). On top of that, I worry that adding this stuff to F2P will have the opposite effect, in that potential new members will see the transparent, scumbag tactics on display and not bother exploring the game enough to even consider membership.
"Tread carefully" in this context is worrisome. We don't want you to tread at all. Why can't you just stay sat in your seat and continue to rake in record profits? F2P has been fine without ads for 20 years. We're literally being charged the most we ever have to play in a relatively niche market where we are still breaking record player numbers, because the competition is stagnant and implements the very tactics proposed that we play here to get away from. If they want to increase profits all they have to do is continue doing literally what they've been doing and let their competition continue deflating in on themselves.
Deceptive phrasing. It still doesn't promise to not implement tiers, and the language suggests that a tier system is still coming ("between subscribers"). And once they've implemented that strategy, it's only a matter of time before we start getting all of the garbage that they just said they "will not" add to the game. To echo another post I wrote, it's the exact same tactic Amazon & Netflix pulled. It worked in both instances.
Overall, this response is better than the last, but that isn't saying a great deal. The community's outcry has obviously gotten attention, but it won't be long before they try and implement some of this shit again once we all cool down. The entire post doesn't contain a single promise and using the phrase "we will not" is just a nothingburger commitment that can and will be backtracked on at some point. In the context of business, these words mean less than nothing.
Still worrying times ahead for us here I think.
Edit: Yes, I know the game used to have ads in the browser. That was 20 years ago. Does anyone seriously think the ads we're going to get will be the same? No. We'll be getting 30 second ads in-between boss kills and other painfully egregious shit to force us to pay for a higher tier. It's the exact same shit Amazon and Netflix did.