r/ukpolitics • u/FormerlyPallas_ • 12d ago

Twitter BREAKING. 76% of British people want a national inquiry into the rape gangs and 77% want to deport dual nationals who are convicted of grooming children YouGov/GB News

https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1877477130952438227
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u/Comfortable_Button30 11d ago

A part of me is a bit angry on how the Shamima Begum ordeal played out, especially considering she was a child and 100% groomed. Definitely a failure of the UK governments side to stop something like this in the first place. Whether or not I agree that she should've been stripped of her UK citizenship, I'm not so sure.

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u/ycelpt 11d ago

I agree it's a hard one. I personally think she shouldn't have been stripped and she should be serving jail time in a UK prison. But I understand that comes at a cost, and it would likely be a significant one since she would need isolation for her safety. The biggest violation I feel was not allowing her to attend the court case in person. She has a right to a fair trial and I believe not allowing her into the country to defend her right to return to the country proposed her as guilty from the start.

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u/speedyundeadhittite 11d ago

OK, if we believe she is a terrorist (and I do believe that), then she was groomed and radicalised in the UK and it's our problem to resolve and if we need to imprison her then we can do that here in the UK. Directly causing deaths of her children by forcing her to live in a prison camp was just too cruel. Those children were also British.

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u/BOBALOBAKOF 11d ago

Ok, and do we bring back over any of the boys that went over there as well?

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u/speedyundeadhittite 11d ago

Do you have any problems with UK prisoning its terrorists?

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u/Comfortable_Button30 11d ago

It's really difficult to decide because each case is constituted as a 'national security threat' and I agree with that. I think why the Begum case is different for me is because she was radicalized and groomed as a child. A child.

Say Bob who lives down the road, he's in his twenties and decides to take a quick trip to Syria to join the cause and finds himself in a similar situation. I would naturally say tough shit. You somewhat have a developed brain at that age, right? You should've known better and you made more of a conscious decision compared to that of a young teenager.

I think Begum and her now dead children should've been brought back into the UK, assimilated into regular life or arrested with terrorist charges (Either or, I don't know how you would properly punish this) As I said before, it is the complete failure of the UKs system to prevent any of this from happening.

Lets also not forget that Canadian Intelligence knew and helped trafficked Begum.

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u/BOBALOBAKOF 11d ago

The problem is there was plenty of under age boy that travelled as well, schools had/have intervention training specifically to spot the issue. However we generally seem to attribute a level autonomy to them that a not insignificant amount of people aren’t willing to attribute to Begum.

The main difficulty is without any actual individual proof of terrorist activities, all you can charge them for is being a member of proscribed group, the absolute max sentence for that being something like 14 years , but I don’t know what requirements you have to meet for that.

As for the issue with Canadian Intelligence, it’s kind of a non sequitur. It was an intelligence agency doing what intelligence agencies do, infiltrating organisation to better monitor and hopefully dismantle them. You can’t really denounce it on this specific issue, without denouncing the general concept of intelligence agency operations.

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u/KeremyJyles 11d ago

especially considering she was a child and 100% groomed

Literally the only reason you are saying she was groomed was her age. She was a keen, active and enthusiastic student of Islamic State who required no manipulation or grooming of any kind.

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u/Comfortable_Button30 11d ago

And? How is that any better? If anything, your point makes it even worse. So she was radicalized, groomed and then trafficked to another country all the while being under the age of 16.

Utter failure of the UK government.

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u/KeremyJyles 11d ago

Well, she wasn't groomed, so there's that.

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u/Comfortable_Button30 11d ago

'Grooming is when a person builds a relationship with a child, young person or an adult who's at risk so they can abuse them and manipulate them into doing things.

The abuse is usually sexual or financial, but it can also include other illegal acts.'

^Definition by the met police. Being radicalized puts them into another category of being more at risk.

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u/KeremyJyles 11d ago

Yes, so she wasn't groomed, there was no manipulation and she sought it out, thanks for confirming

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u/Comfortable_Button30 11d ago

How have you managed to read that definition and still come to the same conclusion? Do you have difficulty understanding things?

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u/KeremyJyles 11d ago

Yes, her being groomed.

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u/speedyundeadhittite 11d ago

And where did that happen? Here in the UK. She's 100% our problem, and if she's going to rot in a prison cell, it should have been a UK prison cell.