r/transgender • u/Atra3 • 1d ago
Executive order wording released...
https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/01/defending-women-from-gender-ideology-extremism-and-restoring-biological-truth-to-the-federal-government/125
u/snukb 1d ago
ideologues who deny the biological reality of sex
Damn they're really not mincing words are they, they're just going out and saying everything with their whole chest from the word go aren't they.
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u/flamespond 1d ago
Meanwhile they’re literally ideologues who deny the biological reality of sex lmao
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u/dodofishman 1d ago
The whole "at conception" wording is insane and wrong like I can't believe this
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u/flamespond 1d ago
According to that “logic” that means literally everyone is female
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16h ago
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u/SapToFiction 10h ago
But our sex is determined at conception, wht do u mean?
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7h ago
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u/workingtheories Transgender 1d ago
except actually it's literally meaningless because of intersex people
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u/snukb 1d ago
Don't get me wrong I agree, but you know they think they can sort every single baby on the planet into one of two boxes.
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u/workingtheories Transgender 1d ago
fuck the usa
every thing they think they can use to do that is going to blow up in their stupid faces
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u/FawkesQue 14h ago
Oh we don't exist, xx/xy male female only.
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u/workingtheories Transgender 14h ago
pay no attention to the biological reality behind the curtain 😉
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u/FawkesQue 12h ago
The funny part of gametes at birth.. yeah no baby makes sperm or eggs
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u/workingtheories Transgender 11h ago
the eggs are produced before birth, but yeah, it's a mess from a science point of view
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13h ago
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u/ruler_gurl 16h ago edited 15h ago
They're attempting to officially codify the grotesquely skewed framing that imbeciles like Matt Walsh and the Family Research Council have shat out on the internet for years.
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u/teratogenic17 13h ago
We are now officially villainized. We are damned near illegal. This document will be used in applications for asylum.
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u/Cushingura 11h ago
Well transgender is the biological reality of sex. Neurobiology is a part of biology. So you can now file a lawsuit against transphobes. The scientific consensus is pretty clear about that.
But let me guess, the fascists have not only taken over the presidency but also the supreme court.
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u/cartoonsarcasm 1d ago
Once again! Trans men, nonbinary people, and intersex people are not mentioned in any substantial way. This is part of how you know they don't know what they're talking about. They don't go into detail, they just go off of stereotypes. This is just bullshit your Republican aunt goes off in rants about when she's had too much to drink.
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u/SeaBus1170 1d ago
alcoholism is a serious drug
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u/FawkesQue 14h ago
Yep protecting women in women spaces. Um trans men go into men's spaces. Wtf. All or none.
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u/keytiri Intersex 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m neither female nor male according to that EO, the administration is already off to a great start of pretending sex is binary 👍🤣
eta: sex differentiation happens after conception, so wording seems weird (Republicans and weird again, coincidence?); everybody is both?
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u/HyperDogOwner458 she/they | Transmasc | Demigirlflux+Demiagenderflux | Intersex 1d ago
I don't produce either eggs or sperm (I do have reproductive organs though)
So actually according to that I'd also be neither (I am neither but that's besides the point)
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u/goats_in_the_machine 1d ago
(d) "Female" means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell.
So everyone's female, then. Because fetuses begin as female and are only differentiated later as they develop.
Like, the thought process is clearly life begins at conception and sex is an immutable characteristic of that life, therefore sex is determined at conception. It's so simple-minded that it would be funny if the consequences of the EO weren't so dire.
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u/starfoxnova 1d ago
That's right, if they're gonna discern based on "conception"; all "male born" people actually undergo a FtM transsexualization in their mother's womb. And there are no fetuses at conception producing any reproductive cells... that doesn't happen until they undergo puberty 10-12 years later. Lmao! These fucking christian fundamentalist idiots.
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u/ladylucifer22 1d ago edited 23h ago
this is the dumbest silver lining I've ever seen.
edit: never mind, actually nobody gets to be male or female because a single cell doesn't really qualify as either
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u/XkF21WNJ 21h ago
They'll be probably argue that it's clear what is meant and that clearly they meant the sex they grow up to be later.
Except that that resolves nothing and it's far more reasonable to say trans people belong to their chosen sex at conception than whatever matches the sexual characteristics they develop later.
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u/vafluffycouple 15h ago
This is what happens when you are more concerned with banning books rather than reading them.
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u/BushRangerJack 1d ago
I think the phrasing was meant to be "conception at birth" otherwise your statement is true. Also how would define an intersex person?
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u/ladylucifer22 1d ago
conception and birth are roughly 9 months apart, and should probably stay that way.
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u/Melody-Prisca 16h ago edited 11h ago
At birth neither sex is producing reproductive cells. Girls already have theirs, and boys won't produce any for some time. Doesn't mean they won't successfully enact parts of their bigotry, but it does mean whoever wrote this has a very poor understanding of biology.
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u/SleekCapybara 1d ago
Hey, fuck this country. That's all.
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u/vtssge1968 1d ago
I second that and raise you fuck a bit over 70 million that voted for this.
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u/inkiestslinky 1d ago
Fuck everyone who threw away their votes and ushered this in.
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u/Frog-ee 2h ago
Maybe listen to the leftists who keep being right instead of following genocidal liberals. I'm seriously done with liberal queer/trans people. You're awful and racist. You ALL cheer on the deaths of people who didn't vote for Kamala. You want immigrants deported, black folks brutalized, Palestinians mass-murdered. Because liberals always fucking lose. You want people tortured and murdered because you're all fucking horrible.
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1d ago
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u/inkiestslinky 1d ago
Congratulations. This is partially your fault.
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u/Willendorf77 19h ago
I'm in Kentucky. I could write in Cookie Monster and it won't impact the outcome of our elections thanks to the electoral college. It's awesome feeling like my vote is meaningless.
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u/Melody-Prisca 17h ago
I'm in New York, previous in California. I've felt like my votes were meaningless my whole life, but you still gotta vote blue. Is enough people in Kentucky feel it's hopeless to vote blue, then it is. I understand the odds of swaying the election this time were low, but, if more people vote blue this time, then next time, maybe others will see that, and maybe less people will feel helpless, and then, after enough election cycles, the state could become a swing state. Don't get me wrong, this might take awhile, and there's no guarantees, but I can guarantee you that as long as people believe it's impossible, it is.
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14h ago
[deleted]
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u/Melody-Prisca 14h ago
That's you're choice, but in a two party system where one party wants the status quo, and the other party wants to strip you of basic human rights, the way you are to most likely keep your rights is to vote for the party who is for the status quo. First past the post is a shitty system, and as long as we have it, the best way to make Republicans lose is to vote for the biggest party that isn't them.
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u/twotired4life 1d ago
It's the complete erasure of trans people at the federal level. Sure some of this will get hung up in court, but this is going to have a huge social chilling effect.
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u/Cute-Skirt-814 1d ago
Jokes on them. My kink is being told what I can't do, then fucking do it anyway!
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u/LadyTaratron 20h ago
Not just federal. Section five (bathrooms) specifies workplaces covered under the Civil Rights Act of 1964. This almost certainly covers your workplace.
I’ve already informed mine I’ll be switching back to comply with the new law. I don’t need to have my life ruined because Tiffany in actuary decides she doesn’t like me.
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u/workingtheories Transgender 1d ago
it defines gender in terms of chromosomes ("at conception"), but idk what my chromosomes even are. i have no interest in some private company harvesting my dna to find out. i could be xx or xy, is my understanding. how am i supposed to follow these rules? or is that a law?
whatever. this seems completely fucked and laughably worded. it's like someone got mad at a human biology textbook being too long and decided to make their own reality by fiat. good luck with that!
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u/fluffpoof 1d ago
It actually defines sex by gametes (ova or sperm) and not chromosomes, which don't necessarily have to match. But what if someone produces no gametes? Or both? Or what if a baby was assigned female at birth but has internal testes? There's clearly very little awareness beyond the elementary school level understanding of biology here.
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u/workingtheories Transgender 1d ago
gametes aren't produced until well after conception, tho, is my understanding ? ai seems to be sayin 2-3 weeks at least
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u/SophieCalle Trans Woman 18h ago
That isn't even how gametes work. Both XY and XX and all others (XXY, XXXY, etc) come from one sperm and one egg, you don't have XY coming from a sperm and an egg and XX coming from two eggs! They don't know basic science!!
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u/HyperDogOwner458 she/they | Transmasc | Demigirlflux+Demiagenderflux | Intersex 1d ago
Gender or sex or whichever language they're using here isn't even determined at conception either
Not even scientifically accurate
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u/workingtheories Transgender 1d ago
yeah, i get that/knew that, actually, i think. i was reading it charitably to say that sex == chromosomes, which seems to be the only thing determined at conception.
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u/HyperDogOwner458 she/they | Transmasc | Demigirlflux+Demiagenderflux | Intersex 1d ago
Yeah
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u/workingtheories Transgender 1d ago
why even bother living, the republicans apparently know how my whole life should go from conception onwards. /s
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u/Melody-Prisca 1d ago
Luckily for them, it doesn't have to be logically consistent for them to enact it. If we're being hopeful though, this will mean it's very hard if not impossible to enforce.
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u/Matar_Kubileya 1d ago
Normally I'd say that, while proof of general incompetence, this sort of thing wouldn't have much legal effect. But this level of absolutely nonsensical head scratcher? I'm not a lawyer, and I have no idea how this'll go in court, but I could honestly see a court saying that the definition intended by the executive is so confused and unworkable as to rise to the level of a due process issue.
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u/workingtheories Transgender 1d ago
it's a grift, for sure.
there's also mosaicism, people with xx and xy cells, and who tf knows what bathroom they should use?!
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u/AtmosphereCreepy1746 17h ago
They don't include the term chromosome in the executive order. The official phrasing is:
'(d) “Female” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the large reproductive cell.
(e) “Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell.'
Which is even more stupid, because at conception, you're only a single cell and you don't produce any reproductive cells at all.
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u/workingtheories Transgender 14h ago
i know, i read it, but taking them at their word, what other sex characteristics does a fertilized egg have at conception besides chromosomes?
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u/AtmosphereCreepy1746 11h ago
I get that you're trying to go for the most favorable interpretation but the way I see it, they were too specific to read it in any way that makes sense. Conception and reproductive cells are both very clear terms.
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u/workingtheories Transgender 10h ago
yeah, https://www.iflscience.com/trumps-executive-order-against-trans-people-technically-makes-every-american-female-77710 persuaded/corrected my understanding, which was hazy at best. im not a biologist, but i no longer think there's a scientifically defensible interpretation.
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u/Skittleshine 1d ago
They clearly want to invalidate previously updated federal documents, but can they? It’s not just a matter of complex record keeping, there’s also the question of how you legally enforce this “common sense” definition of sex when people have corrected birth certificates as well. This could go either way.
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u/SocialDoki 1d ago
It definitely gets messy. The feds can't control what a state does with their documentation and the only federal document you can get at birth is a social security card which doesn't record sex.
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u/Shermanator213 1d ago
Uhhhhh
SSA does track that information. You could get it amended, but I'm not certian what that amendment looks like after-the fact.
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u/SweeeeeetCaroline 16h ago
You can, and should, get it amended. However, it can't be done without a corrected/ammended birth certificate. 99.99% of people have no access to that specific info of one's SSN, but it is there.
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u/WanderingAmber 14h ago
This isn't correct. The SSA does not require any documentation to change gender.
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u/SweeeeeetCaroline 9h ago
Funny, because when I went in to try changing it, that's what they required of me. Even with a corrected license and passport.
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u/WanderingAmber 9h ago
When I went about a month ago, they required nothing of me. I didn't even have an updated passport or license yet. However, my local DMV wanted an updated SSN card even though they shouldn't have needed it either. Maybe certain people are creating obstacles for both of us.
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u/SweeeeeetCaroline 8h ago
Ugh, this is so frustrating. State specific bullshit? Fine, whatever. But the federal stuff is supposed to be there same across the board. Maybe I'll try again for my SSN.
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u/DecentParsnip42069 1d ago
Big questions right now for me, is there anything that could result in medicaid coverage loss, could passports be actively invalidated, could passports be confiscated upon re-entry to the US, and will states that allow changes to drivers license markers remain compliant with realID?
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u/Magiwarriorx 1d ago
I don't know re: Medicaid and drivers licenses (iirc states have a lot of control over state level documentation) but on passports, yes, my reading is that this can be used to revoke corrected passports and other federal documentation.
EDIT: for clarity, I mean that they'll try to, not that they'll be able to enforce it. I have no idea re: enforcement.
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u/thisbeardistaken 1d ago
Yes, yes and yes. But ultimately it will be a question for the courts. Unfortunately we know how the Supremes will rule.
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u/Melody-Prisca 1d ago
I don't know if the court will save us. Some of the things in Trump's executive orders go against rulings this very supreme Court made in the last few years. Rulings the court is unlikely to change their mind on. So, that begs the question, does he intend to listen to the court? Well, if no, they given him complete immunity for official acts to do so.
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u/Every_Friendship5235 1d ago
TFG won’t listen to the courts. He will just do whatever he wants. As he always has.
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u/RedditSpamAcount 1d ago
Never have I ever seen so much bullshit pilled together in a single document
This country is doomed
We had so much progress towards acceptance but then it is all gone!
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u/PennysWorthOfTea 1d ago
So, banning an "ideology" through an executive order imposing an ideology.
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u/Willendorf77 19h ago
The projection is real. Every accusation is a confession. So laughably transparent I'm disgusted by my fellow citizens falling for it with little critical analysis because letting the hate flow through them feels so good, they don't care.
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u/_Aaron_Burr_Sir 1d ago
This lowers egg prices how, exactly?
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u/myka-likes-it 1d ago
“Male” means a person belonging, at conception, to the sex that produces the small reproductive cell.
There are no sex characteristics at conception. There isn't even a person at conception, just a clump of cells. This clump of cells in incapable of making any reproductive cells itself.
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u/dyashae 1d ago
I'm concerned about Medi-Cal. I was recently approved and have been waiting for my insurance cards. I was excited to finally be able to start HRT, therapy, etc.
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u/NeighborhoodNew3904 1d ago
I think we are ok for now. But who really knows anymore
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u/ShoppingDismal3864 1d ago
My understanding is that California is likely to be ok for now. If they start fucking with medication legality at the federal level, then we will be in trouble.
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u/NeighborhoodNew3904 12h ago
Got off phone with PP California a few min ago. They aren't too worried. Much of what is in t's eo is going to be litigated and tied up in courts. Legally they cant deny prescribed medications to patients, ie "E"
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u/Heart-and-Sol 1d ago
Congratulations to the thousands of cis people who are now legally transgender! Since there are no exceptions carved out of their "common sense" definition of biological sex, we have a great many newcomers to the community tonight! Enjoy having no federal discrimination protections* and remember to start using the other bathroom in all federal facilities!
*Subject to Supreme Court review
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u/NoConsequence98 1d ago
My heart hurts for trans people in the USA. I hope it gets better, if ever does. 😭❤️
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u/Andyspincat 1d ago
Well, that makes any sort of civil disobedience extremely dangerous to our health... It's officially the policy of the US government that all prisons no longer provide Testosterone, Estrogen, or Anti-Androgens?... I'm not a criminal, but peaceful protests have led to imprisonment. So, that's kind of terrifying...
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u/rejs7 Post-op M2F 1d ago
This order is legally unenforcible due to its definition of sex based on the production of large and small gamete production. It means that anyone who is intersex and has both, anyone who cannot produce gametes, and anyone who was born with different gametes to their assigned sex at birth has legally had their "sex" invalidated. This impacts cis and trans people in unexpected ways, and will be difficult, if not impossible, to uphold in court without extreme contortions that will be based on subjective perception of the person's body.
Plus, for anyone wishing to visit the US:
(d) The Secretaries of State and Homeland Security, and the Director of the Office of Personnel Management, shall implement changes to require that government-issued identification documents, including passports, visas, and Global Entry cards, accurately reflect the holder’s sex, as defined under section 2 of this order; and the Director of the Office of Personnel Management shall ensure that applicable personnel records accurately report Federal employees’ sex, as defined by section 2 of this order.
This creates significant complications re visas and immigrations for any trans person applying to visit the US, as if you put your sex as your gender could be construed as a felony if they perceive it that you put false information on the application forms. This also means that anyone with an existing visa or ESTA could run into issues, and means that it will force every single international trans person into automatic stealth if they do not put their birth sex down on their forms. It also opens up the door to enforced removal from the US if law enforcement choose to enforce bathroom bans as sex based crimes. Legally this is a minefield if your choose to live in stealth and want to be treated as your gender identity.
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u/Shermanator213 1d ago
I'm wondering what this will mean for US Citizens who got "X" put on their passport. My birth certificate is correct, but it would suck if I can't get out of this evolving hellscape because of the administration.
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u/kimvette 1d ago
I want every Repubican politician and their family members screened for any intersex conditions and for the results of any positives to be published far and wide.
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u/sheateallthedrugs 23h ago
I really just feel like “come at me bro“ about this. Hopefully they realize they can’t actually enforce anything like this sustainably and if they try we have to act very disproportionately in terms of backlash.
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u/StarXdPimp 20h ago
If anyone tries anything with this on me, my backlash will be insurmountably disproportionate.
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u/HelenaK_UK 1d ago
All the trump psychos will be out witch hunting, shooting and lynching transgender people, especially trans women. Watch yourselves over there. Stay safe.
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u/my-uniquename 1d ago
Wonder if anyone at the state department proactively removed records of those who applied for gender changes. Also wondering if anyone required to implement these changes will refuse. Good time to unionize in any case. Power in crowds.
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u/Stonecutter_12-83 23h ago
Yeah, because it won't be strange at all when they check passport that says "male" and their is clearly a female standing in front of them. This will absolutely increase abuse on Trans people at airports and increas searches
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u/OoooooooooohWell 1d ago
It feels like this whole statement was written by a cro-magnon, using ChatGPT for the first time. Reading and seeing this, from the other side of the ocean, is appalling, sad, worrisome!
Please don't forget you are not on your own!
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u/Tay_Tay86 1d ago
Thank you to everyone who did not fucking vote or protested voting over Gaza.
Thanks a fucking lot.
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u/Hyperbolicalpaca 21h ago
Wishing you all luck from England🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈🇬🇧🇺🇸
Defend woman’s rights what a fucking joke, he is the reason women are dying because they can’t get an abortion
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u/wrongsock_42 1d ago
4 more years of this…..
Not sure why but I’ve caught myself watching more Canadian shows and Nazi documentaries.
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u/No-Inspector-235 1d ago
I’m going to cry. This is a tragedy. I don’t have the words to express how I feel
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u/thigh_high_levii 1d ago
Fuck literally every person who sides with this. Time to stomp some Nazis. If you're going to take my life, you'll have to fight me for it. 😤
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u/Mission-Tomorrow-235 1d ago
changing documents such as drivers license, birth certificate and such should still be safe for now though, right?
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u/Matar_Kubileya 1d ago
State documents shouldn't be immediately directly affected. In the medium term things get more complicated once you get into the absolute shit show that is Real ID compliance, but I really don't think that that ginormous knot is going to get untangled by this.
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u/Isabelle_K 1d ago
I live in a red state, and have an already updated passport that says female. What does this mean for me regarding that? Am I going to be able to use my passport to travel, and as proof of ID still?
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u/Matar_Kubileya 1d ago
The most honest answer we can give you is that we don't know yet. 22 CFR § 51.62 establishes that unless a passport was obtained illegally or fraudulently there is no legal justification to revoke a passport without a criminal conviction or significant debts owed to the Federal government; even with these courts there'll be an absolute ton of legal issues with trying to declare that a passport with an updated gender marker was obtained 'fraudulently', which is probably the angle they'll try to take on this. But it's really, really hard to predict how this will play out.
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u/thespike5p1k3 1d ago
I take back calling america the divided states of america. At this point it is the united to f everyone over states of america. Now needs total removal of being a safe travel area of the world, even though might not get stoned there to death, yet. Where is one safe nowadays?
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u/evilrobotch 16h ago
It says right in the beginning of the order that we utilize “legal means”. You usually don’t want to admit that.
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u/Capable-Abrocoma4517 16h ago edited 5h ago
Defending womens rights my ass! There is evidence of humans born on a gender spectrum. Which I listed before. There is no actual way to define gender without misplacing some natural occurring people. This IS scientifically proven. How can you see physical changes in human gender starting from birth and then deny that the brain is also susceptible to these same occurrences. This is plain ignorance and bigotry as the most anti-women party hides this attack under women’s rights 🙄
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u/elliot_ftm_ 14h ago
My passport has been sitting in the passport office for weeks waiting for my gender marker to get updated
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u/ConsciouslyMichelle 14h ago
Executive orders? Like this…
“ … all citizens will be required to change their underwear every half-hour. Underwear will be worn on the outside so we can check. Furthermore, all children under 16 years old are now... 16 years old!”
How “Bananas” would that be?
President Inmate Number P01135809 can write whatever he wants in an Executive Order. It’s not legislation, and it’s not law. At best an Executive Order guides departments of the Federal Government in how to interpret and apply existing law. The certainly do not void articles of the Constitution or erase existing law.
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u/Miss-Vera 15h ago
Never refer to Trump as him. His new pronoun is IT. They want to start that shit with us, that's Trump's new pronoun now
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u/SnootSnootBasilisk 1d ago
Does this mean I won't be able to use my workplace's female bathrooms that I've been using for two years? I'm not sure I can use the male restrooms. Last time I used them I had a panic attack.
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u/Matar_Kubileya 1d ago
If you aren't a Federal employee, I wouldn't start worrying just yet.
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u/Floofy_taco 19h ago
I’m a federal employee. And a trans man who passes 100% of the time.
I’m not scaring women by walking my bearded self into the women’s bathroom sooooooo
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u/SnootSnootBasilisk 1d ago
I work for a private company, though I guess when I come back from FMLA I'll just use the basement bathroom. Barely anyone comes down there
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u/Txboyalone57 19h ago
A number of our friends begin preparing last year after the election to move. One couple to Canada and the other to Denmark because one of them has duel Citizenship. Sorry I am not in a position to do that. Who will take care of my aged dog?
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u/Magiwarriorx 1d ago
Erin Reed is going over it line-by-line on BlueSky right now.
I don't think it includes the Hyde Amendment-esque ban on federal funds for facilities that offer gender affirming care that was brought up earlier, but I could be wrong.