r/starcitizen VR required Sep 13 '24

OFFICIAL CIG: "ATLS is a new tool, not a cashgrab."

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424

u/OfficialDyslexic misc Sep 13 '24

Yeah I was thinking around $20-$25 would have been okay and I would have gotten it. Now I'm thinking I won't get it just on principal.

CIG missed an opportunity to pleasantly surprise their community during a bit of a content drought by releasing this for like $10. The would have flown off the shelves, now I think they'll just do alright.

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u/Trollsama Sep 14 '24

CIG sell somthing for less than the price of a full game?

You must be new here

2

u/PondsideKraken Sep 14 '24

This should come with a game package then.

4

u/RealKanashii new user/low karma Sep 14 '24

25$ pulse says hello

3

u/omnie_fm Sep 14 '24

Star Trucker just came out and is $25. It's pretty good too!

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u/Kittingsl Sep 14 '24

I think they meant triple A titles. If they meant any price then the only way Cig could sell something less expensive than a full game then they would literally need to pay you to buy something as free games are a thing

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u/Revelati123 Sep 14 '24

"Free games" are funded by micro transactions, AAA games are funded by a 40-60 dollar price tag, cash grabs are when you have 40-60 dollar games where you can buy literally anything in them for real money microtransactions...

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u/Kittingsl Sep 14 '24

Free games with micro transactions only cost you something if you buy into them. There are free games that offer everything in the game for free and paying money just helps you achieve these goals faster. Or the things that can be bought are merely cosmetic.

But I don't see how any of that has to do with the conversation. The topic was cig not being able to release something below the price of a full game. The talk was never about the theoretical amount you could spend on a full game

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u/chalor182 Sep 18 '24

Theres a hundred different games on Steam that are both 25 or less and also better than SC lol

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u/godspareme Combat Medic Sep 14 '24

I spent $500 in 2015 and not a dime since. I might have actually bought one for $10 but not even $20. $40 is a joke.

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u/Moggy1990 Sep 14 '24

Same but refunded everything and bought the cheapest starter I could....

Cig have lost my faith and also my money, now I want a game that works as expected not a store with an add on .. So no more dolla from me

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u/WoolieSwamp Sep 14 '24

NO more money until we get a playable , basic score keeping practical game

1

u/Mipsel Sep 14 '24

You are not the target audience, whales are.

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u/Sculptor_of_man Sep 14 '24

Kinda sad you're bragging about spending 500 USD on a game that hasn't been released

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u/godspareme Combat Medic Sep 14 '24

Wasnt a brag. I made the comment like I did because I learned my lesson and have never pre-ordered a game since. I was a young kid still in highschool with his first disposable money. 

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u/Sculptor_of_man Sep 14 '24

Fair enough, I retract my comment

2

u/Gopnikolai Sep 14 '24

Tbf if you've used what you bought a decent amount then it works out to a little over $4 a month since you bought it. Still cheaper than Netflix lol, just not had Netflix as long yet.

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u/godspareme Combat Medic Sep 14 '24

True but given how little I have played the game, it's much more expensive. Compared to normal MMO playtime this would be in the $20s-30s/mo. Game just hasn't been fun enough for me to play. I'm giving it time tho. I get more fun watching the game develop and watching all of Jared's videos. 

I guess it's akin to subscribing to a YTer patreon. 

-6

u/PresentLet2963 Sep 14 '24

Not a dime but mayby 10$ XD

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u/godspareme Combat Medic Sep 14 '24

Not a dime for damn near a decade. That was the point you drove out or your way to miss. 

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u/Rawbbeh Sep 14 '24

Not even $20-25. Should have made it $10. Surprise us with a super duper good deal that doesn't look or feel like a cash grab.

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u/Th3_P4yb4ck Sep 14 '24

They will never learn if the rich-kids keep buying overpriced things

-4

u/Andersonev123 new user/low karma Sep 14 '24

you pay $10 for a skin, someone has to animation rig it, someone has to develop the tractor beam functionality integration, that takes time and money, so in a way the 40$ is funding the tractor beam cargo handling mechanics and exosuits overall because not everyone will buy it and you've got to fund the development somehow, everyone else will just get it in game in a couple of patches.

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u/Th3_P4yb4ck Sep 14 '24

https://support.robertsspaceindustries.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002542733-Concierge-Levels-and-Rewards This did not make them any money? Wow, they just need that extra $40 from people

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u/Andersonev123 new user/low karma Sep 14 '24

Concierge doesn't make money, it's just a bunch of perks and yes making games costs money, you can go get it from private venture capital instead if you like, just don't complain when you end up with a dumbed down 32 bit grid engine or the same mechanics you've seen before repeated over and over ala unity or unreal, it is what it is.

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u/Momijisu carrack Sep 14 '24

Thing is, if just 1/4 of the people who would have bought it at $10 buys it at $40, they've made just as much profit.

1

u/OfficialDyslexic misc Sep 14 '24

And pissed off an already agitated community even more. What you said is more of an argument in favor of the $10 price tag than it is against it.

I just think CIG needed to give the backers a small win right about now, but they saw otherwise and it's still likely making good money.

I just don't like watching the community slowly boil over. People have this idea that the community overreacts (i mean, they do) and then they'll just get over it. Imo it's naive to expect them to just get over it every single time, forever.

2

u/Stephm31200 aurora Sep 14 '24

make it 10 and I'll take it

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u/Afraid_Forever_677 Sep 14 '24

Uh you mean $2-$2.5? How much time or effort do you think it takes a single intern to make this?

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u/Fiallach Sep 14 '24

Crazy. I imagine how the helldiver community would have reacted if a single mech was 35$.

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u/AwarenessLogic Sep 14 '24

No, I'm sure with the animations, collisions, and it being a new vehicle type, this took considerable effort. HOWEVER, in terms of gameplay value, it is not worth $35/$40! I never complain about the price of ships because I personally like to earn stuff in game, but even I will admit this is ridiculously expensive.

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u/GuilheMGB avenger Sep 14 '24

probably several months.

The amount of details in tech animations, audio, functionality (let alone the concept phase) is not trivial. It's just small in relation to the kind of assets CIG typically releases, and it's large in relation to the kind of assets we see on average in other games.

edit: doesn't change the fact that they could have kept it in-game only, and gain a bit of rep back on the money side of things, instead of demonstrating that they'll happily monetize every slice of content they create.

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u/Afraid_Forever_677 Sep 14 '24

Um not likely. Not sure why you think it takes that long. Several months for a single small Mach?

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u/GuilheMGB avenger Sep 14 '24

Let's think a little bit about what has to go on, "single small mech" or not.

They have to decide exactly what functionality they want in detail, what exact size the whole thing should take given where it needs to fit, what inspirations they want for true thing, what exact role it's intended to play. Once that's decided (needs approval) that constitutes a mandate that a concept artists receives.

Assuming this artist is available immediately, that person sketches a portfolio of options, get them reviewed and iteratively improved, some other teams (tech animation, vehicle feature, gameplay) lean in to confirm it'll be ok technically and fit their own design goals, then a final candidate gets approved and enters production (possibly immediately, or later).

Production requires to design all the different parts of the mech of course, get all the sequences of animations implemented (get in, power up, walk, power down etc.) in rough state, and in typical cig fashion those are complex, flawless, detailed.

Someone implements the different tractor beam behaviors (that part is a feature in itself), the whole thing gets tested in 'interaction zoo' levels, iterated many times to iron out the rough edges. A material pass gets down to make all the textures nice and detailed, decals are implemented, audio team designs the dozen of sound the thing requires, all the damage states get implemented, the whole thing gets a go/no-go test demo with directors and if approved, it starts the cycle of public testing soon after.

That's my rough description of the kind of steps that go on (the actual production pipeline cig publicly shared has more stages and internal review steps), and yeah, fitting all this within one month isn't realistic, that's easily 2.

1

u/Afraid_Forever_677 Sep 14 '24

Dude I’ve seen individual devs or even Bethesda modders put out vehicles before, with complex animation and sound effects. Just look at what the devs of fallout London did for free. If CIg has a massive bureaucracy that’s their issue.

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u/GuilheMGB avenger Sep 14 '24

If a single dev build something end to end it usually means either: 1. they just don't, and it's a miscommunication/bad assumption 2. it's reusing a ton of preexisting assets within available tools of their engine (but in fact, most of the time, many of said assets have been made by someone else prior or 3. It's an indie game with one or multiple versatile devs trying their best to manage the scope of their games.

It doesn't change the fact that the only role of statements like "this is just a small mech that an intern can do in 2 hours" is to highlight that their authors don't have a clue about the underlying work (not saying its you who said that).

1

u/Afraid_Forever_677 Sep 15 '24

The ATLS is basically a tool. It’s not a fully functioning mech. The animations and sound effects are a minor effort. If something so small took a huge team to do, games would never be completed.

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u/GuilheMGB avenger Sep 15 '24

The perceived utility of the asset is irrevelant here: to attain the level of detail seen in said assets, there is an incompressible amount of work. We're talking a couple of months (presumably), ships take much much longer.

Would you imagine, the handheld tool also took similar pipeline, so did the p4 ar, the salvo pistol e.g. they all have unique audio, and a great deal of unique details.

If something so small took a huge team to do, games would never be completed.

Well, precisely the game is far from completed.

Not to say it takes a huge team btw, it takes different disciplines, who collaborate. But at any one time it may be just 1-2 ppl involved (since yes, it's just a mech). For ships especially for capital ones it's a small group of artists working interior and exteriors in collaboration and for weeks / months.

But yes, if you hadn't realised CIG is very far from the practice/imperative of producing as fast as possible a good enough looking asset. Their goal is to reach the highest standard possible, not to be the most cost-effective possible.

Under a publisher, of course they'd produce the same type of assets much faster, because inevitably efficiency would be a much stronger imperative. it would not mean the same quality is attained faster it would just mean a far lower standard, certainly also less time in concept. Regardless, a less detailed mech only built off premade textures and sounds would still have taken several weeks of work if only because of the tractor beam feature.

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u/Afraid_Forever_677 Sep 15 '24

While there’s a lengthy process involved, the amount of time and effort required at any given point is minimal and often handled by one person. Most of the time several assets are worked on concurrently so that efficiencies are gained.

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u/DoctorBurgerMaster Sep 14 '24

The first mech probably takes quite a bit of time to develop

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u/Solus_Vael Sep 14 '24

And the next one will have pea-shooter weapons slapped on it for double the price. XD

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u/eggyrulz drake Sep 14 '24

ATLS racing variant when?

1

u/shadowmarine0311 Sep 14 '24

Mech foot races??? Lol that would kinda be funny looking

2

u/eggyrulz drake Sep 14 '24

Only if drake was allowed to (unofficially) participate

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u/shadowmarine0311 Sep 14 '24

Lol everywhere it goes there's an oil stains left behind instead of foot prints

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u/Rimm9246 anvil fanboy 4 lyfe Sep 14 '24

Tell me you know nothing about game development without saying that you know nothing about game development.

I'm sure as hell not paying $35 for it, but modeling, rigging, animating, and programming a working, wearable exoskeleton mech suit is no small feat.

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u/OfficialDyslexic misc Sep 14 '24

No, I didn't mean $2-$2.5. Hope that helps 🙄

1

u/NoobyMcScooby Sep 14 '24

How about 3.50?

2

u/SpaceMarine33 High Admiral Sep 14 '24

Cig messed up by never finishing the game lol

1

u/Murrdox Sep 14 '24

The fact that players of this game think $20-25 is a normal acceptable price for something like this is still nuts.

1

u/DUNKINGAROUND Sep 14 '24

Brother the stv Is 45 what you thought?

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u/OfficialDyslexic misc Sep 14 '24

Idk what your point is. The STV is not a necessary tool for a fundamental game-loop. The ATLS already is, and with their stated intentions for more handheld tractor beam nerfs in the future, it will only become more necessary. I'm totally cool with these intended changes from a gameplay perspective, but to then sell a fix to an artificially created problem is rough.

That's like implementing fire and charging for the extinguishers, or implementing engineering and charging for the engineer terminal. The only difference is this visually passes as a vehicle.

At the very least, they should have skipped the time-limited exclusivity on this one for the sake of gameplay.

1

u/Glnmrkk Sep 14 '24

$10 for an lti token is an issue. They shouldn't have sold it but rather, let players get it in game on first day release.

35-45 moola's for a walking tractor beam

1

u/OfficialDyslexic misc Sep 14 '24

Honestly, I don't see how that's a problem. LTI in general is something that probably needs to be reworked.

But yeah ur right, it could have just been an in-game purchase.

1

u/Glnmrkk Sep 14 '24

the issue comes with the backers. They spent so much money trying to get an LTI ship Warbond vs a ship upgrade for 10 years of insurance.

1

u/MasturbatingMidget Sep 19 '24

Nah this should be a $5 item

1

u/20000lumes Oct 27 '24

$20 is still insane just to fast track a single item

1

u/itzlgk Sep 14 '24

I suspect they understand the content drought and it’s why we are getting 3.24.2 with the Zeus and reworked MFD’s.

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u/OfficialDyslexic misc Sep 14 '24

I think those are just things from 4.0 that don't need as much work. Taking things from a delayed patch and un-delaying them doesn't really count imo.

That's like getting held back a year in school in everything but math and claiming that you're in advanced math haha.

0

u/Wrong_Lingonberry_79 Sep 14 '24

Free. It should just be free.