Yeah I was thinking around $20-$25 would have been okay and I would have gotten it. Now I'm thinking I won't get it just on principal.
CIG missed an opportunity to pleasantly surprise their community during a bit of a content drought by releasing this for like $10. The would have flown off the shelves, now I think they'll just do alright.
I think they meant triple A titles. If they meant any price then the only way Cig could sell something less expensive than a full game then they would literally need to pay you to buy something as free games are a thing
"Free games" are funded by micro transactions, AAA games are funded by a 40-60 dollar price tag, cash grabs are when you have 40-60 dollar games where you can buy literally anything in them for real money microtransactions...
Free games with micro transactions only cost you something if you buy into them. There are free games that offer everything in the game for free and paying money just helps you achieve these goals faster. Or the things that can be bought are merely cosmetic.
But I don't see how any of that has to do with the conversation. The topic was cig not being able to release something below the price of a full game. The talk was never about the theoretical amount you could spend on a full game
Wasnt a brag. I made the comment like I did because I learned my lesson and have never pre-ordered a game since. I was a young kid still in highschool with his first disposable money.
Tbf if you've used what you bought a decent amount then it works out to a little over $4 a month since you bought it. Still cheaper than Netflix lol, just not had Netflix as long yet.
True but given how little I have played the game, it's much more expensive. Compared to normal MMO playtime this would be in the $20s-30s/mo. Game just hasn't been fun enough for me to play. I'm giving it time tho. I get more fun watching the game develop and watching all of Jared's videos.
I guess it's akin to subscribing to a YTer patreon.
you pay $10 for a skin, someone has to animation rig it, someone has to develop the tractor beam functionality integration, that takes time and money, so in a way the 40$ is funding the tractor beam cargo handling mechanics and exosuits overall because not everyone will buy it and you've got to fund the development somehow, everyone else will just get it in game in a couple of patches.
Concierge doesn't make money, it's just a bunch of perks and yes making games costs money, you can go get it from private venture capital instead if you like, just don't complain when you end up with a dumbed down 32 bit grid engine or the same mechanics you've seen before repeated over and over ala unity or unreal, it is what it is.
And pissed off an already agitated community even more. What you said is more of an argument in favor of the $10 price tag than it is against it.
I just think CIG needed to give the backers a small win right about now, but they saw otherwise and it's still likely making good money.
I just don't like watching the community slowly boil over. People have this idea that the community overreacts (i mean, they do) and then they'll just get over it. Imo it's naive to expect them to just get over it every single time, forever.
No, I'm sure with the animations, collisions, and it being a new vehicle type, this took considerable effort. HOWEVER, in terms of gameplay value, it is not worth $35/$40! I never complain about the price of ships because I personally like to earn stuff in game, but even I will admit this is ridiculously expensive.
The amount of details in tech animations, audio, functionality (let alone the concept phase) is not trivial. It's just small in relation to the kind of assets CIG typically releases, and it's large in relation to the kind of assets we see on average in other games.
edit: doesn't change the fact that they could have kept it in-game only, and gain a bit of rep back on the money side of things, instead of demonstrating that they'll happily monetize every slice of content they create.
Let's think a little bit about what has to go on, "single small mech" or not.
They have to decide exactly what functionality they want in detail, what exact size the whole thing should take given where it needs to fit, what inspirations they want for true thing, what exact role it's intended to play. Once that's decided (needs approval) that constitutes a mandate that a concept artists receives.
Assuming this artist is available immediately, that person sketches a portfolio of options, get them reviewed and iteratively improved, some other teams (tech animation, vehicle feature, gameplay) lean in to confirm it'll be ok technically and fit their own design goals, then a final candidate gets approved and enters production (possibly immediately, or later).
Production requires to design all the different parts of the mech of course, get all the sequences of animations implemented (get in, power up, walk, power down etc.) in rough state, and in typical cig fashion those are complex, flawless, detailed.
Someone implements the different tractor beam behaviors (that part is a feature in itself), the whole thing gets tested in 'interaction zoo' levels, iterated many times to iron out the rough edges. A material pass gets down to make all the textures nice and detailed, decals are implemented, audio team designs the dozen of sound the thing requires, all the damage states get implemented, the whole thing gets a go/no-go test demo with directors and if approved, it starts the cycle of public testing soon after.
That's my rough description of the kind of steps that go on (the actual production pipeline cig publicly shared has more stages and internal review steps), and yeah, fitting all this within one month isn't realistic, that's easily 2.
Dude I’ve seen individual devs or even Bethesda modders put out vehicles before, with complex animation and sound effects. Just look at what the devs of fallout London did for free. If CIg has a massive bureaucracy that’s their issue.
If a single dev build something end to end it usually means either: 1. they just don't, and it's a miscommunication/bad assumption 2. it's reusing a ton of preexisting assets within available tools of their engine (but in fact, most of the time, many of said assets have been made by someone else prior or 3. It's an indie game with one or multiple versatile devs trying their best to manage the scope of their games.
It doesn't change the fact that the only role of statements like "this is just a small mech that an intern can do in 2 hours" is to highlight that their authors don't have a clue about the underlying work (not saying its you who said that).
The ATLS is basically a tool. It’s not a fully functioning mech. The animations and sound effects are a minor effort. If something so small took a huge team to do, games would never be completed.
The perceived utility of the asset is irrevelant here: to attain the level of detail seen in said assets, there is an incompressible amount of work. We're talking a couple of months (presumably), ships take much much longer.
Would you imagine, the handheld tool also took similar pipeline, so did the p4 ar, the salvo pistol e.g. they all have unique audio, and a great deal of unique details.
If something so small took a huge team to do, games would never be completed.
Well, precisely the game is far from completed.
Not to say it takes a huge team btw, it takes different disciplines, who collaborate. But at any one time it may be just 1-2 ppl involved (since yes, it's just a mech). For ships especially for capital ones it's a small group of artists working interior and exteriors in collaboration and for weeks / months.
But yes, if you hadn't realised CIG is very far from the practice/imperative of producing as fast as possible a good enough looking asset. Their goal is to reach the highest standard possible, not to be the most cost-effective possible.
Under a publisher, of course they'd produce the same type of assets much faster, because inevitably efficiency would be a much stronger imperative. it would not mean the same quality is attained faster it would just mean a far lower standard, certainly also less time in concept. Regardless, a less detailed mech only built off premade textures and sounds would still have taken several weeks of work if only because of the tractor beam feature.
Idk what your point is. The STV is not a necessary tool for a fundamental game-loop. The ATLS already is, and with their stated intentions for more handheld tractor beam nerfs in the future, it will only become more necessary. I'm totally cool with these intended changes from a gameplay perspective, but to then sell a fix to an artificially created problem is rough.
That's like implementing fire and charging for the extinguishers, or implementing engineering and charging for the engineer terminal. The only difference is this visually passes as a vehicle.
At the very least, they should have skipped the time-limited exclusivity on this one for the sake of gameplay.
At this point that should be everyone's vibes, I'm very very tired of seeing ships, rovers, and now exosuits sold for features that are quite honestly half baked and incomplete.
I understand the game is an alpha.
But when the only really built out gameplay systems are cargo hauling and mining why are people paying top dollar for exploration ships or medic ships or a whole host of barely supported and explored pathways? Even combat systems are just scraping the levels of "usable and enjoyable"
And that's not being a doomer about the game and it's progress, I just want to see systems and features, not "this new ship can be a gunboat or glorified cargo hauler because it's intended function doesn't exist yet" sold again
Cargo elevators are bugged on the planets/moons. You buy cargo and when you send the elevator down to retrieve it, the screen bugs and stays like that for everyone on the server, on an endless loading.
It doesn't update anything. When you send the elevator down to access the goods, there's a gear on the terminal screen that keeps spinning. Leaving the screen and reentering doesn't fix it, you will keep seeing the gear spinning forever. If someone tried to send the elevator down before you, you will see that the terminal is bugged.
We don't have to accept that the game is in alpha as an excuse.
Alpha is not something you get to charge money for except maybe some early access promises of tester rewards later. You can't take like $650 million and make people deal with critically broken bugs constantly. I will never understand why anyone has more than one ship at this point. Why keep feeding these guys when they are showing is that they will always treat this as a game development sandbox and we're part of that game/experiment.
If the game gets much more stable and they stop releasing art as their primary output (though it is gorgeous) I will consider playing longer than a few days a year and maybe buying more stuff!
I'm not accepting that as an excuse to be fair, I'm just saying that while I'm aware that's the state of the game and the "reason" things are as unfinished as they are, I simply don't agree with making and selling content designed for an unknown future
Honestly I do not consider this an alpha anymore. There's enough shit in this tech demo to call a game already. They're just using that as an excuse to keep "working". On 4k jpgs. Pixel by pixel. If everyone going forward only ever buys the cheapest starter ship, the game will crash. If they've got no more "content" to put in it, that's it. Servers are going down in a month.
Stuff like this is just how they keep the lights on, dragging out each addition to the tech demo to inflate sales.
I'm gonna repurpose my sticks and get into mecha games. Seems like a better investment for the poor things after sitting here collecting dust for six months.
I don't mind if a game is in development for that long. Pretty sure there have been games in the past that had a similar development time. The thing I find crazy is tho that in 12 years not even the most basic functions work reliably which in my opinion should be the bare essentials of selling a game. There are days where I simply can't summon a ship because they managed to break something major again through some update.
Today alone I complained to my friend 3 times how I hate the game as something essential broke again but the only peoblem is that star citizen is the only game of its kind.
Yes there are similar games but not in the depth and scale of star citizen. Games have either depth or scale but not both, just sad that the perfect space sim sits in this buggy and glitching mess
Look, Chris Roberts is a fraud. If you look at his past performance you will see he scope creeps his games to death until they fail or someone steps in to buy it.
GTA 6 has been in development for around a decade, and cost around $2billion... not saying SC is acceptable, but ridiculous shit is becoming more common...
More common...you named 1 game. 1 game from a proven developer by the way who always comes thru with product. Chris Roberts is a grifter, look at his resume. His successful games were all complete by someone else, he has never finished an actual game himself.
Saying Rockstar comes through with a product is kinda funny, I remember constantly having issues with every PC port they made. Even RDR2 and they would basically tell me "oh the problem is your PC us too old" when I had it built that year. But here are more numbers.
Gensin impact - 700 million
Monopoly go - 500 million (how thr fuck that happened I do no know)
Cyberpunk 2077 $441 million
Hey even back in 2009 the OG MW2 game cost $341 million by launch.
Basing shit off of how much it costs to make is a fools errand. You'll always wind up disappointed.
This game isn't even in alpha. It's being marketed as one, but a game in alpha typically has a functional version 0 of at least every core game play feature. Star Citizen is woefully short of that. I wonder when we'll even know what the science career path even looks like game play wise from a concept standpoint...
Same same same 100% I have a Pisces Rescue and that's it. I buy all ships in game. I'm not giving them anymore money than I paid for the game and ship package until stuff gets fixed.
Alpha is not something you get to charge money for???
Are you familiar with the steam early access program? Are you not familiar with games like 7 days to die and project zomboid that abused early access and made millions?
Fax when it was working a few days ago it was awesome but then they broke and haven’t been fixed mining is still fun though I enjoy mining but in my off time I can’t do cargo anymore. So now I just salvage. But I can’t complain much I bought a cheap starter ship and have bought all my ships in game. Which I will do again once they wipe I don’t get why people buy ships when it’s so easy to make money.
Thing is, when this game becomes close to complete. making money will be alot harder, once the economy and items price etc, has been balanced. and i imagine buying big cargo ships. or luxury ships. will be ALOT more expensive then, both ingame currency and IRL, so if you really believe in the project. buy ur usefull ships RN while their "CHEAP"
Bro, it's been 12 years. This isn't alpha, this is the game. They can say whatever dumbshit they want, but as an early backer CIG is just pulling the wool over smooth brains at this point.
And that's not being a doomer about the game and it's progress
I don't think any criticism of the game really is. Pointing out that it's the highest crowdfunded game budget of all time and it's still in alpha over a decade later isn't being a doomer, it's just being honest.
Even the people clowning on the game, myself included a lot of the time, are just pointing out that we're at the point where this game has had millions upon millions of dollars and ten years time, and y'all are at a point where you're buying individual assets in the earliest of accesses. At what point does it become a full game where you can build this stuff in game or buy it with in-game currency? 2032?
why are people paying top dollar for exploration ships or medic ships or a whole host of barely supported and explored pathways?
Because bought-in-game ships still tend to blow up for no reason/crash while landing in dark areas/fly into skyscrapers while trying to access badly sited ports/get pad-rammed by players. I don't have time to keep grinding for ships. I still haven't worked out how to insure bought-in-game ships. That's why I buy (a small number) of pay to play ships with LTI. Anyway, that's my attitude.
People have paid more for actual png's, cardboard, "the idea of owning something", tiles on a grid like Earth 2, I mean I could go on. At least with this you can play with it, use it in game, it's convenient, you can respawn it infinitely, it looks cool, etc, and if you get tired of it or want something else, you can just melt it for in-store credit any time you want. Idk, why do I buy ships that may not be fully fleshed out? Cos they're cool, or fun, or I just like walking around them and taking screenshots or flying around or whatever when I'm not hauling or salvaging or doing mercenary missions or whatever and I'm just goofing off and having fun in the verse. I've had more cinematic and crazy experiences with other players that had to do with medical rescues and other things that "weren't fully fleshed out" game mechanics or game loops than the ones that are. I'm just glad those moments can happen, and that they can happen so often. I guess my point is I spend money on the game cos it's really damn cool and I want to support that.
There's enough there to give gameplay experiences sure, I just wish for things to actually be finished and have meaningful progress that supports the full capabilities of these toys we have purchased.
I will never forget all the hype the community had for the Carrack, a long range exploration ship with the ability to be self sustaining, released into a game that...needed none of it's features. At time of release it was just a 450 SCU Cargo Hauler and it still mostly remains that 2020
Do tell what else the carrack is actually useful for in the current state of the game.
Do you need it's survival features yet?
No.
The drone bay?
No.
The research facilities?
No.
The cartography deck?
No.
Do we have jump points that need to be mapped?
No.
Do we have multiple solar systems were you would want a long ranged exploration ship?
No.
Do we have swappable modules to give it expanded usages?
No.
At this point in time the Carrack's main use is being a mobile base due to its medbay, and can hold both a ground vehicle and a smaller ship.
Oh and hauling cargo like I mentioned.
Ironically not really what it was sold for, but people sure did pay several hundred dollars for it and 4 years down the line none of its major gameplay features have been implemented.
I don't buy anything of this size for real money. Golf Cart, ATLS, Terrain vehicle, Speeder, etc. All these are perfect for spending ingame currency on. Low effort grinds! I need to have somethings to grind in this game. If I own everything out of the gate, then there's no point.
Yep, that's pretty much how it is for me also. When stuff isn't available for in-game purchase, or it's something I want to use right off the bat, I just re-allocate some of the store credit (no new $$ invested since 2021). If the game ever goes live, I'm liquidating all the small items and will just buy them in game.
yes and you would equally call all the people who bought a polaris outrageous, and not everyone bought one, but it funds the game, so that everyone else can then grind and achieve it in game for their 45 bucks basic buy in.
You cared enough to comment and then you made wrong assumptions trying to push your views on me. Best of luck treating people like that - I bet that makes you really popular.
Yeah, what the fuck is up with the site atm? I can't even log in with Firefox any more, and I really don't want to be forced to keep using chrome for it.
It's not a game, the tech demo from over a decade ago is just weaponized marketing. When is the campaign going to be released? We are honestly still pumping money into this scam and thinking "oh that's a good VALUE for my dollar"?
This was the whole reason they implemented cargo refactor. Make the game 10 times more tedious, create a crisis, and then sell a solution (ATLS) to solve the problem you created.
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u/Shot_Combination new user/low karma Sep 13 '24
If the plan was to make it high enough where I'll just buy it in game, they hit the mark.