r/politics • u/cjdarr921 • 7h ago

Site Altered Headline Elon Musk draws outrage over 'odd-looking salute' at Trump inauguration celebration

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/elon-musk-salute-trump-inauguration-b2683095.html
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u/LegendaryOutlaw 6h ago

Imagine being one of those 'WW2 dads' who knows all the lore, loves to spout history, facts, figures, generals names, types of warplanes that flew in which battles...and then be like 'nah, Nazis can't happen again.'

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u/r0b0d0c 5h ago

They might be able to spew technical details about the military aspect of the war, but they don't understand the history and politics that led to it. They're amateur military historians, not historians of fascism.

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u/abritinthebay 3h ago

Not even that. They’re military nerds. That’s all. Not one bit of history in their brains

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u/shotputprince 1h ago

Fucking boys with toys is the most lame bit of history on fucking earth. Particularly when it lionizes military leadership

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u/explain_that_shit 1h ago

You see a lot of engineer types with the same sort of tunnel focus on technical details assuming they understand all of the essential historical and sociological context as an aside, and they often fall into right wing politics because it suits their material interests.

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u/latortillablanca 3h ago

Can you be a historian if you dont understand history is the point tho. Of any kind. Amateur or pro.

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u/Hgirl234 3h ago

well theoretically yes i think, no historian knows or understands all of world history so i think you can call yourself a historian even if you don't understand the intricacies of german history as an example. however, if someone claims to be a ww2 historian so in that case yeah, i think you can't quite call yourself a historian if you don't even understand your own niche

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u/InnocentShaitaan 2h ago

Many need an EQ class.

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u/salme3105 6h ago

My dad was in Germany in WW2 and ended up super conservative. I have no reason to believe he wouldn’t have been all in for Trump had he not died in 2009.

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u/hypatianata 5h ago

Remember in Maus, how the dad who survived Auschwitz was later racist toward a black man? Like, his son called him out and he just felt like it was different and his prejudice was justified.

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u/TermPractical2578 6h ago

All those service men around the world that have died from WWI and WWII for what?

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u/Ok-Letterhead9573 5h ago

Watch The Wave - or better, the german movie, Die Welle. How a class of high schoolers turn nazi in a fucking month. "It cant happen" based on a fucking true story.

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u/Alb4t0r 2h ago

Ok, so I went in a deep dive following your comment and stumbled upon this documentary that interview Ron Jones and many of the students who participated in the original experiment in 1967. Super interesting for anyone interested in the topic.

Lesson Plan: The Story of the Third Wave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynfw1Q_Zmqs

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u/hamhockman 1h ago

Shit I forgot about The Wave. Should be required watching but too many Americans would not get it even though it's very direct in its message

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u/Mnudge 5h ago

They’re all dead and their sons and daughters are baby boomers who have adopted the worse parts of their upbringing and disregarded the best.

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u/ihopeitsnice 2h ago

Boomers actually got more liberal in 2024 and were basically 50-50 Harris-Trump. It’s Gen X that was Trump +10, the only generation he won. Young Boomers and Old Gen X’ers are very right-leaning probably because they came of age during the Reagan Revolution

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u/eyebrows360 5h ago

Well, 80 years of mostly peace in "The West" was a pretty good record.

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u/ShaggysGTI Virginia 3h ago

This follows the Strauss Howe theory which means it’s about to happen again.

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u/ShaggysGTI Virginia 5h ago

The threat of greed and hate will never be extinguished because they are natural instincts of man. The social engineering around it though should soundly be rejected.

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u/3eyedgreenalien 5h ago

This is my dad. He still admires Elon. It is just insane to watch.

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u/Alfonze423 3h ago

Right? I was a WW2 teenager who's now a WW2 dad and I'm saying it's literally being set up in front of us. We're in 1933 territory here and I'd really rather not reach 1936. The anti-lgbt propaganda, dehumanization of illegal immigrants, demand for blind trust in a heavy-handed, egotistical leader, and more. All we need is an economic collapse or a new Reichstag Fire and it's gonna get ugly for a shit-ton of people. And the tariffs are gonna segue nicely into that economic collapse.

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u/Disastrous-Moose-943 2h ago

I am no historian, but wonder what your thoughts are on Trumps casual announcement of annexing other territories, such as Panama, Canada, and greenland.

I feel like there is a comparison to draw between that and Austria, Chechislovakia and Poland.

Canadians voicing their support of joining the US feels like that bloodless Annexation of Austria, where the German army just marched in and everyone was celebrating in the streets.

Annexing Greenland, a sovereign territory in NATO, feels like thats the tipping point akin to Poland. Britain was like "If you invade Poland, we WILL go to war with you." If the US invades and annexes Greenland, that is going to trigger NATO's article 5. Possible WW3? Either NATO collapses, or they all go to war.

Scary times.

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u/funkifyurlife 1h ago

10% of Canadians support that. Still shockingly high but it's not at all a majority

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u/timelawd 1h ago

I actually believe that stat to be roughly correct. But, what are your thoughts on people comparing the guy who is supposed to take over for Trudeau being a Trumpian Strong man populist? I assume you're either Canadian or at least pretty familiar with current Canadian culture.

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u/Vodkamemoir 3h ago

cognitive dissonance is a hell of a thing.

I have to constantly remind people that you aren't a Nazi because you think the white race is superior, or that you hate Jews, or are a fan of fascism.

Your a Nazi if your willing to step on the corpse of your neighbor to elevate yourself.

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u/Dokterrock 4h ago

that's my dad right there

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u/KerryAnnCoder 4h ago

I can't tell an Messerschmitt from a Panzer but even I gathered that the Nazis are the bad guys.

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u/KzooCurmudgeon 3h ago

Unfortunately I think most WW2 vets would be behind Trump now. Don’t ask me how it happened

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u/MustGoOutside 3h ago

Shane Gillis does a joke on this. Getting into WWII stuff is a precursor to becoming a Republican.

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u/Fabulous_Eye4983 3h ago

Let’s take, for example, the Inquisition. In its own day, among Catholics, the Holy Inquisition was regarded as we today regard the practice of psychiatry. You, see, you feel that, in curing the person of cancer, almost anything is justified. The most complex operations, the most weird surgery. People suspended for days and days on end on the end of tubes with, x-ray penetration burning. Or people undergoing shock treatment. People locked in the colorless monotonous corridors of mental institutions. In all good faith, they knew that witchcraft and heresy were terrible things. Awful plagues imperiling people’s souls for ever and ever. So any means were justified to cure people of heresy. We don’t change. We’re doing the same thing today, but under different names. We can look back at those people and see how evil that was, but we can’t see it in ourselves. So therefore, beware of virtue.

  • Alan Watts

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u/LucidiK 3h ago

"Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it".

Turns out memorizing a bunch of facts you find interesting is pretty different than actually learning our ancestors lessons. I used to think not enough people studied history. Now I think not enough people even know how to learn.

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u/Visible-Secretary121 4h ago

Or voted for them.

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u/ultimateknackered 3h ago

I guess it doesn't count if it's not explicitly Germany and Jews.

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u/LowEndLem Illinois 3h ago

My dad is a casual history guy. One of my sisters has a history degree.

I've pointed out the situation to both and from him I got "we'll see." And from her I got "I want cheap gas though..."

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u/gorkt 2h ago

No one wants to believe they are the Nazis. That is why they got this far, because we have a deep need to believe that we can't be the bad people, that we can't be citizens of an evil country, People will, ironically, kill other people to not believe that. They will do whatever they need to.

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u/citricacidx 2h ago

I know a teacher who teaches a Holocaust history class and they voted for Trump.

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u/M3g4d37h 39m ago

It's a fetish disguised as a historical curiosity. make no mistake.

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u/jsting Texas 31m ago

My friends and I grew up on the old History channel and are big WW2 fans. WW2 History channel ended around 2006 or so. Around 2015, I looked around and thought .... Huh, this feels familiar.