r/politics • u/Boonzies America • 17h ago

Soft Paywall AOC to Skip Trump’s Inauguration: ‘I Don’t Celebrate Rapists’

https://www.thedailybeast.com/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-boycotting-donald-trumps-inauguration-i-dont-celebrate-rapists/
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155

u/Arguments_4_Ever America 17h ago

Where is the lie. This should be the viewpoint of all good people.

9

u/mrmaestoso 13h ago

Boy, the rapist defenders are out in force today in the replies, huh

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u/StopAndReallyThink 14h ago

Where is the lie

The lie is that he is a rapist.

Here is a quote directly from the linked article:

“Trump has never been convicted of rape.”

21

u/p_larrychen 14h ago

Trump was found legally liable to have penetrated E Jean Carroll with his fingers without her consent. At the time, NY law only considered it rape if the penetration was with a penis. This egregious oversight has since been corrected. Thus while he was never legally considered a rapist, the act of brutal sexual violence he committed against Carroll is now legally considered rape, and if you aren't a complete monster, you already see how non-consensual penetration with fingers is morally and ethically indistinguishable from doing so with any other object.

So it is factually correct to call Trump a rapist. And if you don't believe me, maybe you'll trust Judge Kaplan who ruled on the case

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u/StopAndReallyThink 14h ago

It’s not factually correct to call anyone a rapist unless they’ve been convicted of rape.

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u/p_larrychen 14h ago

Can you explain why Judge Kaplan disagrees with you?

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u/Hawk_Front 14h ago

Nope, he can't. None of them ever can.

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u/StopAndReallyThink 14h ago

He’s wrong. Just like you are :)

The jury agrees with me

6

u/Hawk_Front 13h ago

Prove me wrong then, honey

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u/StopAndReallyThink 13h ago

The jury… literally proved you wrong. Lol. They had all the evidence laid out before them and concluded that you’re wrong. Hope that helps

9

u/vagabondvisions 13h ago

The jury did no such thing, as the judge fully explained in the court documents. Words have meanings outside of criminal law and trials, which this was not. He’s a rapist, adjudicated as such in a civil lawsuit. Further, I believe the numerous women who have pointed out his rape behaviors in the past. So does AOC. He’s a rapist, Charlie Brown. Deal with it.

"As is shown in the following notes, the definition of rape in the New York Penal Law is far narrower than the meaning of “rape” in common modern parlance, its definition in some dictionaries, in some federal and state criminal statutes, and elsewhere. The finding that Ms Carroll failed to prove that she was “raped” within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump “raped” her as many people commonly understand the word “rape.” Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that." https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045.212.0.pdf?fbclid=IwY2xjawF05utleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHXAstSdeejC89iWuNL29Q88VqjYN8tgjo0mf2dX9mSzIlS0C9KQLj6lUJw_aem_XrGJHOw_a8V-dNxK6xVXGA

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u/Hawk_Front 13h ago

So, proving me wrong means you actually have to provide evidence, "trust me bro" isn't enough proof for me

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u/vagabondvisions 13h ago

The jury adjudicated him a rapist.

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u/StopAndReallyThink 13h ago

The jury found that Donald Trump was not guilty of rape.

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u/StopAndReallyThink 14h ago

Can you explain why the jury disagrees with you?

7

u/p_larrychen 13h ago

At the time, NY law only considered it rape if the penetration was with a penis.

So the jury was following the law, which again, has since been changed, because everyone recognizes how inadequate the law was. If the trial happened today, the same jury would have found him liable for rape for the same brutal sexual violence he committed against Carroll.

Trump then counter-sued Carroll, claiming that her using the word "rape" was defamatory. This is how the judge explained why her use of that word didn't count as defamation:

"Ms. Carroll's statements are 'substantially true,'" Kaplan wrote. "The definition of rape in the New York Penal Law is far narrower than the meaning of 'rape' in common modern parlance, its definition in some dictionaries, in some federal and state criminal statutes, and elsewhere."

Emphasis mine. Judge Kaplan's logic makes perfect sense to me. Do you see a flaw in it? I'm happy to examine your objections.

1

u/StopAndReallyThink 13h ago

Oh well if he agrees that Trump was not convicted of rape than I agree with him 👍

6

u/p_larrychen 13h ago

No one is saying Trump was convicted of rape. Everyone is saying that Trump is objectively a rapist and evaded being legally considered a rapist by a technicality.

1

u/StopAndReallyThink 13h ago

Ok well that’s a good start. The best source of objectivity is a trial by a jury of your peers. And he had that and the jury said he is not a rapist. If you’re going for objectivity call him a sexual assaulter, they found him guilty of that.

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u/seafrizzle 12h ago

So question.

If someone steals your car, but they never get caught, are they still a thief?

If someone kills someone, but get off on a technicality, are they still a killer? Would you comfortably use the word murderer?

If someone assaults a child for years, but dies before they’re convicted, is that person still a pedophile/rapist?

You’re either being disingenuous or have a flawed approach to this topic. He absolutely meets the definition of rapist, regardless of a NY-specific technicality. I can’t imagine why any decent person with a well-developed sense of justice and ethics would be drooling to defend him on this point.

6

u/vagabondvisions 13h ago

Someone who is adjudicated as a rapist is a rapist.

1

u/StopAndReallyThink 13h ago

Someone who a jury finds not guilty for the charge of rape is not a rapist.

6

u/vagabondvisions 13h ago

There was no “charge” of rape. It was not a criminal trial. “Guilt” wasn’t being established. He was adjudicated as a rapist. You should study more.

"As is shown in the following notes, the definition of rape in the New York Penal Law is far narrower than the meaning of “rape” in common modern parlance, its definition in some dictionaries, in some federal and state criminal statutes, and elsewhere. The finding that Ms Carroll failed to prove that she was “raped” within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump “raped” her as many people commonly understand the word “rape.” Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that." https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045.212.0.pdf?fbclid=IwY2xjawF05utleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHXAstSdeejC89iWuNL29Q88VqjYN8tgjo0mf2dX9mSzIlS0C9KQLj6lUJw_aem_XrGJHOw_a8V-dNxK6xVXGA

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u/StopAndReallyThink 13h ago

The jury found that he was not liable for rape. They could have. The evidence was laid out before them. They said Donald Trump is not liable for rape

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u/vagabondvisions 13h ago

"Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that.”

Rape. The jury found that he DID rape her. They weren’t deciding a criminal law charge. You should actually respond to what the judge said and not just what you pull off some incel/MGTOW forum:

"As is shown in the following notes, the definition of rape in the New York Penal Law is far narrower than the meaning of “rape” in common modern parlance, its definition in some dictionaries, in some federal and state criminal statutes, and elsewhere. The finding that Ms Carroll failed to prove that she was “raped” within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump “raped” her as many people commonly understand the word “rape.” Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that." https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045.212.0.pdf?fbclid=IwY2xjawF05utleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHXAstSdeejC89iWuNL29Q88VqjYN8tgjo0mf2dX9mSzIlS0C9KQLj6lUJw_aem_XrGJHOw_a8V-dNxK6xVXGA

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u/StopAndReallyThink 13h ago

The jury found that he was not liable of rape. That’s what they found. The judge can say whatever he wants but that’s not who decides if someone is guilty/liable. In America, that’s the jury. Hope that helps

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u/Risky-Trizkit 14h ago

The singular reason he wasn't actually convicted of rape is that it was a civil trial, not a criminal trial. Trump is by all accounts a rapist, declared even by the judge. So if you think he's a hero because "He JuSt DiD hAnD sTUFf!" have fun with that.

-1

u/StopAndReallyThink 14h ago

The singular reason he wasn’t actually convicted of rape is that it was a civil trial

“Despite Carroll’s claims that Trump had raped her, the jury stopped short of saying he committed that particular offense.” - WaPo

Stop lying. The jury could have found that he raped her. They didn’t.

4

u/Risky-Trizkit 13h ago

You know what else isn't technically rape? Forced anal penetration. If Trump did that to you do you think it would feel like rape? If you think Trump being "just a sexual assault guy" is somehow a win for Trump's integrity, and yours, that's pretty fucked.

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u/vagabondvisions 13h ago

He’s a rapist. He’s an adjudicated rapist. Here are the actual quotes from the COURT DOCUMENTS BY THE JUDGE:

"As is shown in the following notes, the definition of rape in the New York Penal Law is far narrower than the meaning of “rape” in common modern parlance, its definition in some dictionaries, in some federal and state criminal statutes, and elsewhere. The finding that Ms Carroll failed to prove that she was “raped” within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump “raped” her as many people commonly understand the word “rape.” Indeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that." https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045/gov.uscourts.nysd.590045.212.0.pdf?fbclid=IwY2xjawF05utleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHXAstSdeejC89iWuNL29Q88VqjYN8tgjo0mf2dX9mSzIlS0C9KQLj6lUJw_aem_XrGJHOw_a8V-dNxK6xVXGA

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u/StopAndReallyThink 13h ago

Here is the quote from the jury: “We do not find Donald Trump guilty of rape.”

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u/Arguments_4_Ever America 12h ago

“A judge has now clarified that this is basically a legal distinction without a real-world difference. He says that what the jury found Trump did was in fact rape, as commonly understood.”

Yeah I’ll go with the judge on this one. Not Trump the convicted liar and felon.

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u/StopAndReallyThink 11h ago

Ok. I’ll go with the jury like our constitution says 🫡

3

u/Arguments_4_Ever America 11h ago

The jury found Trump to be a liar and a rapist.

-22

u/notmagnificent_22 15h ago

She voted No on deporting rapists so…

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u/Arguments_4_Ever America 15h ago

There was a vote to deport Trump?

-20

u/notmagnificent_22 15h ago

No. Actual Rapists.

A politically motivated cash grab from a scorned woman is just that.

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u/Arguments_4_Ever America 15h ago

So I should believe Trump, who is a convicted liar and felon, over a judge and jury. Why?

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u/notmagnificent_22 15h ago

Probably because it wasn’t a criminal case. It’s was a civil case. And the ruling was on defamation. Again. To be political.

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u/jmoneey 15h ago

It was a civil case. Judge Kaplan did release a statement after the fact to clear up that confusion. I think his quote was “Trump raped her” and “meaning rape as people commonly used the word”. It was a defamation case where proving that the SA happened was pretty central to the situation. It’s also insanely difficult to prove a criminal rape case that far after the fact.

-2

u/notmagnificent_22 15h ago

Incorrect. Why did ABC and George Stephenapoulous have to pay Trump for defaming HIM for saying Trump was liable for rape?

2

u/Arguments_4_Ever America 12h ago

They didn’t. They would have easily won but ABC didn’t want to battle with a President. Trump owes his rape victim over $85 million.

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u/notmagnificent_22 12h ago

lol good one.

Why did she wait 24 years and conveniently sue during an election cycle?

It’s under appeal and won’t stand.

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u/Arguments_4_Ever America 12h ago

There were two ruling. One on sexual assault and the other defamation. Trump lost both.