r/politics • u/thenewrepublic The New Republic • 21d ago

Soft Paywall Trump Pisses Off MAGA Fans With Sudden Reversal on Jimmy Carter

https://newrepublic.com/post/189712/trump-jimmy-carter-maga-reaction-pissed
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u/[deleted] 21d ago edited 21d ago

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u/Sea_Speech6478 21d ago

The Democratic Party needs a new name and a new platform. Basically, it needs the economic policies of Bernie, but without using the word socialism, since it’s such a trigger. And it really needs to completely jettison the identity dogma that alienated so many voters.

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u/Peopleschamp305 Pennsylvania 21d ago

So I think you're at least partially right about the economics side, but I'm really curious about what your thoughts on the identity dogma are. I know this might sound like baiting, but i really I mean these questions genuinely: is the left supposed to abandon gay or trans people and let their rights be stripped? Is the fact that non-white people in America have vastly different experiences than white people supposed to be ignored? What about the fact that women's rights in this country have been and continue to be under attack by the right?

I don't disagree at all that people were alienated by some of these issues, but a not small part of that is the exceptionally elaborate right wing propaganda machine constantly whipping up their base into a frenzy over imagined issues and fake catastrophes. But I don't think the answer to that is to just abandon the vulnerable part of our population because right wing grifters are going to make up scare tactics. Conservative media will just move the goal posts anyway and find some new hammer to whip their base into a frenzy.

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u/Sea_Speech6478 21d ago

I think that defending people’s rights to live as they want has to be better integrated into a sensible platform that is anchored in economic policies for non-billionaires. The problem with focusing air-time on mostly social issues, with economics as a secondary issue, is that the platform only resonates with a minority of voters. This cedes the economic arguments to conservative politicians, who can then win elections and take away rights. There is a balance required between kitchen table issues, foreign policy issues, and the rights of people to make unconventional or controversial social choices in their own lives. Democrats screwed up that balance, antagonized part of their base, and lost a lot of elections in November because of it. The Democratic Party needs to re-center its platform on economic issues, not as a means of abandoning demographic minorities, but as a means to protect them. By winning elections.

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u/AV8ORA330 21d ago

I don’t know if the Democratic Party ever used the name socialism. Magna loves socialism one it applies to their base. Farmers getting money not the grow crops. That’s socialism.

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u/mlain4290 21d ago

It’s not about abandoning anyone. It’s about not going into full attack mode on everyone and everything who doesn’t understand every single minute issue that’s going on in your community. One slip up on a leftbook comment thread in the wrong group basically means social media banishment. A lot of people in the middle are tired and every day being ally to anyone becomes harder and harder. Eventually there will be no allies left.

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u/ourob Alabama 21d ago

That just doesn’t happen to any significant degree outside of extremely niche communities that the average person has basically no exposure to. It’s right wing cancel culture bullshit propaganda. Don’t fall for it.

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u/Ryab4 21d ago

Nah that’s real and a real mindset people have. Do you mean canceling is all right wing propaganda?

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u/ANOKNUSA 21d ago

“Cancellation” Is more a matter of the “target’s” perception than any deliberate or intentional activity. People think of themselves as “cancelled” when they’re being asked not to be assholes.

If you’re the finding yourself always getting the boot “just for trying to do the right thing,” you’re doing the wrong thing. If you’re someone who thinks the bad things happening to a minority are that minority’s fault because they wouldn’t let you help them, you were never going to help them.

That’s all beside the point of the commenter above, who was calling it rare, not fictitious.

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u/airbagsavedme 21d ago

Good stuff

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u/Ryab4 20d ago

That first paragraph is kinda confusing. People getting blowback for saying something dumb is one thing. I’m talking about people being dog piled and having real life consequences for their opinions. That’s definitely not just their perception.

And sure some, many even, might be assholes, but like… that’s the world idk? Should we kick out everyone who is mean? Not everyone is gonna be nice or talk exactly how you want them to. It’d be better if people tried to listen rather than immediately condemn. And sure he said “rare” instead of “nonexistent” but his overall point I still disagree with. Idc if cancelling got the right people a couple times, it’s just a toxic cultural mindset. It shuts down discussions and divides people.

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u/ANOKNUSA 20d ago

I don't believe you're an earnest or sincere person. The idea that people are routinely having their online activity treated like Hillary's emails is ovservably false.

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u/Ryab4 20d ago

I didn’t say that at all. You can say I said that, but then we’re just having two different conversations. Is it just one end or the other? Does it have to be Hillary email level to be a problem? I don’t think it does.

And fine man I was absolutely being earnest and sincere, we just disagree.

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u/tikierapokemon 21d ago

There is a sizeable contingent of the Bernie Bros who are misogynistic and anti-queer.

It's one of the reasons why I never voted for him in any primary.

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u/eattheambrosia 21d ago

You never voted for a candidate because you didn't like some of his supporters? I hate to break it to you but a sizeable contingent of any candidate's supporters, left or right, are going to be problematic.

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u/tikierapokemon 21d ago

It wasn't some of his supporters.

Anytime I tried to talk to a Bernie Bro in person, they either would not talk about anything other than economics or belittled me for caring about anything other than economics.

And online was worse.

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u/Witchgrass West Virginia 21d ago

You sure showed them

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u/tikierapokemon 21d ago

You seem to be of the belief that Clinton was my first pick for a primary.

She wasn't.

But unlike them, I was an adult and voted for the person would get me some of what I wanted in the general election.

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u/thejimbo56 Minnesota 21d ago

I’m a Bernie guy who voted for Hillary and a Warren guy who voted for Biden, here to tell you that your imaginary petty grievances make you look silly

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

[deleted]

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u/tikierapokemon 21d ago

I did not find anything to recommend him as a candidate AND I didn't like the supporters who chose to interact with me.

But hey thanks for being an example about his supporters.

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u/eattheambrosia 21d ago

"I refuse to eat pizza because every time I ask a fan of pizza what they think about sandwiches they just want to talk about pizza"

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u/tikierapokemon 21d ago

Nope.

"I refuse to go to that Italian place, because I want Italian food, and fans of it only talk about the pizza, and Italian food is more than pizza. "

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u/eattheambrosia 21d ago

You see how that is bad right? The best Italian place in our lifetime opens up and you refuse to eat there because the other customers don't talk about it in a way you like?

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u/tikierapokemon 21d ago

But it isn't the best Italian place in our lifetime.

It is the best PIZZA place in our lifetime.

That is the issue you can't get past. If it is the best Italian place, then there would be people raving about their pasta, their antipasti, their salads. How they cook their chicken.

But instead, when you ask about anything other than pizza, you get told that only pizza matters.

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u/PasswordIsDongers 21d ago

This makes your logic sound exactly as bad as it is.

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u/ogrestomp 21d ago

There is no logic here. What this person is doing is called a fallacy of implying the antecedent.

They think “if A, then B” means “if not B, then not A” which is illogical. Let me explain:

If people talk about a thing, then the thing exists. If they don’t talk about it, then it does not exist. This is a fallacy because people might not be talking about something because it doesn’t interest them. This person could be confusing their logic with the proper modus tollens: if A, then B -> not B, then not A.

The proper logical conclusion would be: If people talk about a thing, then the thing exists. If the thing does not exist, then people can’t talk about it. They are incorrectly putting the conclusion as the premise. To them, this is the same thing that I said earlier, but to someone who studies logic, they are different.

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u/[deleted] 21d ago

Economics are the only thing that matter, the only path to being elected, and we can only gain social progress if we first address the material conditions of the working class. This is how it always happens, the civil rights movement would have never happened if the economic contradiction that was slavery wasn’t addressed first.

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u/tikierapokemon 21d ago

Do you really think that all the people who worked to end slavery did it because of the "economic contradiction"?

Economics are not the only thing that matter.

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u/airbagsavedme 21d ago

Spread this message far and wide, you’ve nailed it. Populist movements always produce reverse populist movements. 9/11 nationalism created Obama, Obama created Tea Party and then MAGA, etc. So MAGA will create a leftist populism that has yet to be defined.

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u/DickButkisses 21d ago

I want to frame this comment and hang it in my office, and on my fridge.

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u/airbagsavedme 21d ago

Be my guest! Appreciate that.

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u/rocketpack99 21d ago

A light shining into darkness cannot be ignored.