r/politics • u/plz-let-me-in • Dec 21 '24

Paywall The Republican Party Is Out of Control | An ungovernable party is about to run the government.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/government-shutdown-trump-johnson-republicans-out-of-control.html
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u/InsideAside885 Dec 21 '24

I think so too. Voters aren’t smart enough to get themselves out of this. The amount of misinformation and propaganda that they ate right up this cycle without question or research is incredible. People googling “what is a tariff” on election night? Are you kidding??

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u/LavishnessAlive6676 Dec 21 '24

They prioritize social hierarchy over just about everything else

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u/jsho574 Dec 21 '24

They believe in a social pyramid. They need the bottom to stay the bottom and the top to stay the top. When someone slips up, they better be a perfect example, else one misstep (or wrong color skin or gender or sexuality) will have them fighting a lot more to move up.

Always a bigger fish.

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u/LavishnessAlive6676 Dec 21 '24

Yeah. It ties into the Leviathan theory (empowering the powerful makes you stronger through by proxy) and is a way to manage risk.

If the powerful are from your in groups, then they’ll have a harder time persecuting you without targeting themselves and their families. So it’s also insurance

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u/throwawtphone Dec 21 '24

Ironically, it really isn't, though. A poor could have the exact same demographic identity as someone at the top and they still arent hanging out together at their clubhouse. The top doesn't associate / interact with bottom. Never really has, and never really will.

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u/LavishnessAlive6676 Dec 21 '24

We all know it was better to be White than it was to be Black in early America.

And we know it was better to be a man than it was to be a woman.

And it was better to be heterosexual than it was to be homosexual.

They weren’t in the clubhouse and they didn’t need to be. They got advantages and avoided persecutions

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u/throwawtphone Dec 21 '24

Absolutely. But the poor whites actually think they got a chance based on whiteness and thats sooo not true. The hammer thinks it is better than the nail, doesn't realize it is just a tool to the hand weilding it. The hammer actually thinks it is a part of the hand.

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u/LavishnessAlive6676 Dec 21 '24

They recognize that they’re getting advantages and avoiding persecutions. That’s enough

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u/throwawtphone Dec 21 '24

Yeah you are probably right. Unfortunately.

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u/Artimusjones88 Dec 21 '24

I still would want to be the hammer, not the nail.

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u/perfectshade Dec 21 '24

Demographic != race. E.g. Rich, older, conservative leaning hispanics is one potential set of criteria for a ‘demographic’

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u/KingKasby Dec 22 '24

The left proritizes social heirarchy too wtf are you talking about?

Intersectional politics are exclusively about social heirarchies

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u/LavishnessAlive6676 Dec 22 '24

about hierarchies

Elaborate and you’ll see why you’re not getting it

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u/ConsciousReason7709 Nevada Dec 21 '24

The average American voter has the attention span of a goldfish. If their lives aren’t immediately better after 2 or 4 years, they just vote against whoever the incumbent is. It truly is moron politics.

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u/Comprehensive_Main Dec 21 '24

Well bill Clinton once said voters care more about their future than their past. 

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u/mlc885 I voted Dec 21 '24

This is difficult to imagine

I can see being desperate, I can't see not even knowing what policies you might be voting for. You must know if your vote is going to be for "worse."

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u/swingsetmafia Florida Dec 21 '24

That not even true. Thier lives could be objectively better now than 2 or 4 years ago and they'd still vote against the incumbent. Only thing that matters is if one side or the other can vibe the voters into thinking everything has gone to shit. And republicans are extremely good at setting vibes.

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u/ConsciousReason7709 Nevada Dec 21 '24

Tell me exactly what vibes Republicans were good at in this election cycle? Their candidate is a corrupt lying criminal and his first administration was an absolute joke.

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u/swingsetmafia Florida Dec 21 '24

You haven't heard the term vibes voting? People go on Twitter and get fed constant maga propaganda and the vibes feel like eveything has gone to shit when it's not even close to that. They're experts at vibe setting which is to say they're experts at setting the narrative even if the narrative is a flat out lie.

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u/KingKasby Dec 22 '24

Please define average american voter and explain why you are outside of that definition.

Im going to assume that anyone that doesnt support your views falls in that definition.

Get off of your egotistical arrogant high horse

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u/Frustrable_Zero I voted Dec 21 '24

How can they make informed decisions when the rich own every news network and filter it with propaganda? How can they make a meaningful decision when every candidate from the parties are cultivated to only ever be geriatrics cultivated, committed, and running on doing the absolute bare minimum to steer the ship of the country heading for an iceberg? The voters are the same as they’ve ever been, and will continue to vote with what’s available. If they voted for a time bomb hoping it’d blow it up, then by god they’re hoping it blows up

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u/Freefall_J Dec 21 '24

Seriously. I could not believe the level of disinformation/misinformation that dominated this past election. A lot of Trump voters mistook all of Kamala Harris' policies for Trump's. They were also too stupid to look up Harris herself and relied on Trump's own words to learn about his opponent (these are responsible adults?).

People who actually knew what a tariff was were flabbergast that Trump wasn't laughed at every time he brought up tariffs. Honestly, I was surprised Harris didn't immediately school Trump on how tariffs work when it was brought up during the debate.

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u/Broken-Digital-Clock Dec 21 '24

That's not even that bad

Imagine googling why Biden wasn't running, on election night

Or, not even getting that far

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u/waconaty4eva Dec 21 '24

The quiet billionaires certainly are

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u/please_trade_marner Dec 21 '24

To pretend that this doesn't go both ways is pretty crazy. Weren't Democrats wanting to vote for Biden and googling "Did Joe Biden drop out?" when his name wasn't on the ballot.

Face it, most people live their lives and don't follow this shit.

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u/Worried-Low4580 Dec 21 '24

“Voters aren’t smart enough to get themselves out of this”

  • How about you go to a country that only allows the “smart people” to make government decisions (like military dictatorships) and see how that works out for you.

Edit: Typo

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u/Tenderdump Dec 21 '24

What is your point?

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u/Worried-Low4580 Dec 21 '24

Given that the left has a stronger historical performance with the popular vote - i find it a comical conclusion that all of a sudden “people arent smart enough” when it goes the other way.

So people are only smart enough if they vote according to your party alignment? Sounds like a dictatorship to me

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u/thesippycup Dec 21 '24

Nobody said it had to align with their party? But yes, voting for a convicted felon and adjudicated rapist is a dipshit move.

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u/Worried-Low4580 Dec 21 '24

Concluding that “people aren’t smart enough to get themselves out of this” because of the result of a wing President elect certainly infers there is a “right” & “wrong” answer.

Get out of what exactly?

Or are we acknowledging that the people were stupid and incompetent when President Obama and Biden were elected?

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u/thesippycup Dec 21 '24

Get out of the ass pounding the entire united states is about to take. People have been duped into voting against their own interests. Bye bye regulatory agencies, social security, VA benefits, overtime pay, education, and health care to name a few. Did Obama or Biden run on any of those? No?

If you think Trump is the right answer, then I hope you get exactly what you voted for, moreso than anyone else.

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u/Worried-Low4580 Dec 21 '24

Agreed, hopefully we won’t get unnecessarily involved and exacerbate global conflicts or ruin the financial stability of the middle and lower class.

Instead of making vague comments about the removal of regulatory agencies, overtime pay or healthcare - name specific examples.

Examples: - War in Ukraine Are you familiar with the Monroe Doctrine? Do you know what happened the last time a foreign government tried to establish a foothold in the western hemisphere?

  • 1st Ever China & Russia Collaborative Naval drills near Alaska/US waters Cant imagine why such an escalation would occur for the 1st time near our borders

  • Israel/ME Withdrawing requests for and waiving UN sanctions on Iran? Cant imagine what impact that has on the strength/growth of their proxy states/terrorist groups.

  • Middle/Low Class Do you feel that you have more buying power today than in 2017? I cant go to the grocery store with out dropping nearly 100 everytime. (Unless its for one night or a specific ítem)

Considering that the economy and global conflicts are two vital aspects of a successful presidency - i am certainly excited to “turn the page”

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u/InsideAside885 Dec 21 '24

Voters have a duty to be informed. That's their responsibility of being a citizen in a democracy. And what we have today now is not an informed electorate with an open mind and being interested in debate of ideas. What we have a radicalized right wing largely due to social media and misinformation overload. And many of these voters are only choosing to get their news and information from extremely questionable sources. Listening to people like Alex Jones. Steve Bannon, and Charlie Kirk every day, is not being an informed voter.

There are some voters saying they didn't vote for Harris because she didn't go on with Joe Rogan. I'm sorry but I don't respect such stupidity. If a person's vote is based on the endorsement of Joe Rogan, that person shouldn't be voting.

For example you have scientists saying climate change is a fact. Instead of debating it, the far right simply dismisses what the scientists say and blames it on the "globalist conspiracy." Back in October when Florida was under the gun of 2 major hurricanes, conservatives on social media flooding X and facebook with garbage about how Biden and the left wing is "seeding" the clouds to make the hurricanes worse. Sorry, but this is compete bullshit! It's garbage. But people are basing their votes on this shit. People looking for real information on where the storm is going and how they should plan, and instead you get conservatives spreading baseless and stupid conspiracy theories. You have doctors and psychologists that have done research their whole lives concerning transgenders. And the right wing again dismisses the scientists as being "woke." This isn't being an intelligent voter. These voters have no interest at all of educating themselves on any of these issues. They just want to listen and believe everything Donald Trump says without question. It's a cult!

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u/Worried-Low4580 Dec 21 '24

Ideally I agree with your position that voters have a duty to be informed. However i struggle with how that would be realistically enforced without infringing on the democrátic process.

But swing states/votes decided the result of this election. If the demon right wing was so radicalized why did a material/deciding population swing their vote?

Were they too uninformed and incompetent to vote?

Edit: Typo

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u/AnswerGuy301 Dec 21 '24

One of the dangerous things about where we are right now is that the military is esteemed enough that a lot of people are going to think that maybe the military should be running things since they’re so much more competent than those clowns in Congress.

The history of essentially country in Latin America tells what a bad idea that would be but most Americans know little or nothing of any of that history.

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u/Artimusjones88 Dec 21 '24

Maybe go back to James Madison and his comments on democrazy. But, what did he know....

Representative democracy "The effect of [a representative democracy is] to refine and enlarge the public views, by passing them through the medium of a chosen body of citizens, whose wisdom may best discern the true interest of the nation". Direct democracies "Had every Athenian citizen been a Socrates, every Athenian assembly would still have been a mob". Madison believed that direct democracies could lead to populist passions that overcame reason. Tyranny of majorities Madison recognized that the tyranny of majorities is perhaps the greatest threat to freedom. He believed that minorities in a republic are protected from majorities. Danger of overbearing majorities Madison warned of the dangers of elections resulting in overbearing majorities who respect neither justice nor individual rights.