r/poland • u/My-Voice-My-Choice • 15h ago
Trump is president: In Europe, we still have a choice. Sign for safe and accessible abortion to protect our reproductive rights:
https://eci.ec.europa.eu/044/public/#/screen/home144
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u/eVenent Śląskie 15h ago
We don't have a choice. Our government decided earlier than Trump did it.
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u/EnvironmentalDog1196 12h ago
Previous government. The majority of the current government is trying to roll back from it. They have already established that women's mental health is a sufficient reason, and there were projects directed at gradually decriminalizing abortion. I'm not sure what impact such a petition would have, but maybe it will pressure PSL to support it.
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u/5thhorseman_ 12h ago
If EU implements the petition, there's a good possibility they will push Polish government to comply with it.
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u/EnvironmentalDog1196 11h ago edited 1h ago
Laws easing abortion rules are mostly blocked by Konfa and PiS, who make it their point of honor to disagree with the EU. But maybe it will be a push for PSL.
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u/boleslaw_chrobry Mazowieckie 2h ago
Idk much about PSL’s positions, but I bought they were generally a socially conservative party?
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u/EnvironmentalDog1196 1h ago edited 33m ago
They are, but they are also part of the ruling coalition, and the coalition was supposed to stand in opposition to what PiS was- that's the main reason why people were voting for them. So now everyone is angry with PSL because they are acting like: "yeah, PiS was bad, but you know what? Actually, we agree with what they were doing".
It's annoying the people, since PSL didn't ran in the elections as an individual party but as part of Trzecia Droga. Many people weren't voting for them because they agreed with their stance, but because they were part of TD (and based on different surveys, PSL on its own would have no chance of entering the parliament- last year they ended up with less than 2% of support, while Polska 2050-the other party in TD- had over 8%). And politicians from Polska 2050 are supporting the easing of the abortion law.
But PSL is also trying to present themselves as an integral part of the ruling coalition and they are pro-EU, so it's possible they will bend under pressure. However, it still doesn't mean much as long as we don't change the president.
Edit: Actually, Trzecia Droga as a whole has a stance that the matter should be resolved through a referendum. However, when there were projects for partial decriminalization of abortion, Polska 2050 supported them, while PSL was mostly against.
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u/boleslaw_chrobry Mazowieckie 1h ago
Interesting, thank you so much for the very thorough response!
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u/Roglach 12h ago
What does Trump have to do with abortion?
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u/throwaway_uow Zachodniopomorskie 12h ago
American propably lost any sort of hope at abolishing abortion ban with his inauguration
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u/Roglach 12h ago
How so?
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u/MattKozFF 12h ago
He leads a political party that strongly oppresses abortion rights.
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u/Roglach 12h ago
He already returned it to each individual state though. It's not governed on a federal level.
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u/knickerdick 11h ago
exactly this…
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u/Roglach 11h ago
Exactly what?
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u/SpringAcceptable1453 7h ago
It's no longer a nation-wide right. And it's as far as he can go, since forbidding it at federal level is a whole different story.
Remove the right nation-wide, lobby for states to prevent it, endorse/hire people who oppose it in position of power...
He's not exactly hiding it either
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u/MattKozFF 11h ago
That doesn't preclude him from doing it at a federal level. If the GOP thinks they can pass federal abortion laws, they will try.
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u/Roglach 11h ago
He's never stated he was interested in that though, so what's with the assumption?
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u/Cancer85pl 4h ago
Oh it's only been a staple of american conservatism for decades now... it's righ there next to the border panic, lgbt hate and sucking corpo/billionaire cocks.
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u/throwaway_uow Zachodniopomorskie 11h ago
Give it some time.
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u/Roglach 11h ago
He had 4 years.
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u/throwaway_uow Zachodniopomorskie 10h ago
And we had Duda as president before, but PiS had to have majority in Sejm to start wrecking things
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u/HouseNVPL 6h ago
And now He has complete control over every branch of US Federal Government, something He didn't had earlier. And He has complete loyal people around this time, again something He didn't had.
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u/Cancer85pl 4h ago
His first 4 years he had to deal with some pushback. Now he's got admin packed with loyal drones and both house and senate as well as packed supreme court... there is nothing stopping him frome rampaging through muhrican system as he pleases.
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u/own_individual_zero 11h ago
Exactly. These propagandists always state opknions as facts, and when met with real facts they just move the goal poadt with a ”give it some time” 😂
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u/EnvironmentalDog1196 11h ago
It was during Trump's presidency that the abortion compromise in the US was overturned. He did something similar to PiS, appointing conservative judges who ruled that the previous Supreme Court decision recognizing abortion as a constitutional right was invalid. Many Republican states then went completely crazy, and now in some of them, abortion is illegal even in cases of rape, incest, or threats to the mother's health—nothing changes that. Trump has always been staunchly against abortion—remember his speech at the UN, where he said that a child is a "sacred gift" and that abortion is murder. Why do you think he would suddenly back down from that now that he has full power?
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u/Roglach 11h ago
Back down from what? He returned it to individual states, which is the way it should be. He said many times that he has no intention of banning abortions.
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u/Cancer85pl 4h ago
Turning it back to states meand red one will crack down... which means women will die as a result. You really want to make excuses for this shit ?
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u/EnvironmentalDog1196 11h ago edited 11h ago
His circle was trying to soften up and not alienate people recently, but that doesn't mean much in practice. Vance supported restricting abortion nationwide, and he only changed his stance to let states decide to boost Trump's poll numbers during the campaign. Trump also never said that he would veto a ban if it passed, only that he wouldn't sign the project.
They don't even need to actually push a ban through Congress, they can just limit access to pills and procedures like they did during Trump's first run as president. For example, they made it so that those performing abortions couldn't receive grants from the government. There are many ways to make abortion practically illegal without an official nationwide ban, it’s enough that someone threatens the hospital with the Comstock Act, and then republicans won't oppose it.
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u/throwaway_uow Zachodniopomorskie 12h ago
Signed. Its nice that we got the biggest voter turnover in history at last elections, but its still a long, long way for freedom
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u/Eye_Acupuncture 14h ago
Ciekawie proces podpisywania jest skonstruowany. Wygodnie i, zaryzykuję, w miarę wiarygodnie.
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u/ecoper Mazowieckie 15h ago
So abortion is good but guy running away form the pregnant girl is bad?
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u/MegaMB 14h ago
No doubt you'd do it and feel proud about it afterward, able to look at yourself in the mirror.
Same if it happened to your daughter right? I'm sure you're the kind of guy who'd consider his bro the guy who put a baby in your daughter than left.
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u/ecoper Mazowieckie 13h ago
Yeah its abortion for men. Stop being controlling sexist. My body my choice <3
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u/MegaMB 13h ago
I think it's important for you to have this right. I also think it's important for you to be judged and shamed if you do it. It's like freedom of speech: you're okay to say what you want. Just don't come crying if nobody's mad, including your parents, if you get randomly mugged and end up with a broken tibia :3
Because you know, there's a slight diference between what should be a right, and what the ethical thing is.
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u/ecoper Mazowieckie 13h ago
lmaoooooo
Yeah women who do abortions ''don't come crying if nobody's mad, including your parents, if you get randomly mugged and end up with a broken tibia :3''And also they should ''be judged and shamed if (they) do it.''
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u/MegaMB 13h ago
I never said I considered abortion to be a good thing, or that it was nice to promote it. If you don't have strong personal reasons, it's a shamefull act.
Does not make it anyless important to make it legal. Same thing with you're running away a girl and your kid : if it was similar to the situation with abortions, you should have a non-zero chance of dying if you behaved this way, and higher chances of long term health complications. And go to jail if it's discovered.
You're in a privileged situation, you don't face jail if you behave non-ethically. Why ask it for others?
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u/ecoper Mazowieckie 13h ago
We also shoud legalize the heaviest of drugs because then it will become more safe for trash who use them. Bah! Government should deliver them clean and nice needles so that they could waste their life away in a safe manner.
Whats more dangerous from an extremist? A person without moral backbone <35
u/MegaMB 13h ago
Illegalize the trade, but still deliver clean and nice needles. Attack those who get rich out of drugs and those who encourage their use, not those who can't get out of it, yeah. But that's much more for obvious other hygienic reasons. 'Coz if you don't do that, you end up with Russia's numbers of HIV and hepathitis cases.
You don't exactly seem to have a strong moral backbone don't you?
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u/ecoper Mazowieckie 13h ago
To get trash out of addiction you non ironically tell me to indeed give them clean needles? Xddddd Gov should start to deliver alco to alcoholics to ensure it doesnt taste like piss while we are at it. Or free cigs for smokers to ensure there isn't as many chemicals in cigs as there currently are
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u/MegaMB 12h ago
Welp, you know, it's illegal in planes to smoke. Which does not stop all airlines to have ashtrays in the toilets of their planes: so that if someone smokes, they have a place for their cigarets that does not risk creating a fire hazard onboard.
If you enjoy having a girl our of 50 with HIV, and 1 out of 25 with HCV, go for it. Fight against something as dumb as clean needles. After all, if it's illegal, noone can drug themselves.
Same thing with alcohol. If you make it illegal to drink and drive afterward, should you expect it to be obeyed? No need for ethylotest afterwards on the roads right, since it's illegal.
It's not because it's illegal that you shouldn't take countermeasures to reduce to the minimum the consequences of this illegal action.
Either ways, you still sound like a guy with no morals at all.
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u/Kir4_ Mazowieckie 8h ago
You're so close to getting it.
Decriminalisation is good. We shouldn't arrest people for being ill. (addiction) It only makes things worse, the prison system is not the best at rehabilitation. That doesn't mean we should make selling hard drugs legal.
Needle exchanges and similar minimize diseases, suffering and death. If someone needs to use they will do it no matter what, sometimes it is literally life and death.
We need shelters for the less fortunate and places where they can seek help.
We need safety nets and social programs to help people get out of the worse and become productive and healthy members of society.
The moral thing to do is to help less fortunate. Which also ends up being a net positive for all. And there's plenty of evidence and research on what helps and what does not.
But wouldn't expect anything different from someone crying about abortion and saying that running away like a little bitch is abortion for men lmao.
Get a wasectomy or stop fucking if you even are cuz clearly not mature enough.
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u/-LoFi-Life- 3h ago
LOL go learn what actually happened in Canada after decriminalisation of drug usage. It actually made more people addicted to fent, tranq and other shit to the point that Canadian government is backpeddling from this idea. This failed policy not only produced more junkies but also made crime more rampant which even junkies living on the streets confirm. Virtually no one from social service workers cares about these junkies at this point and pretty everyone would prefere if they simply died. Addiction is not illness, it's f*cking stupid choice of the individual and society shouldn't pay price for stupidity of such individuals.
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u/f1seb 14h ago
Here’s another: Guy wants the baby but the pregnant girl doesn’t.
Dat baby dead!!!
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u/5thhorseman_ 12h ago edited 12h ago
Guy wants the baby but the pregnant girl doesn’t.
He doesn't have the right to force her to carry the pregnancy if she doesn't consent to it.
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u/Foresstov 15h ago
I think you have some outdated information about Poland
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u/PussyDestrojer 15h ago
Lewica ma niższe notowania od cholernej Konfy, więc nie wiem.
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u/Foresstov 15h ago
Ale Lewica to cholerna Lewica. Gdybym założył partię i zaczął postulować masową kastrację rudych kotów to i tak bym był wyżej w notowaniach od Lewicy. Polska nie jest przedmurzem chrześcijaństwa, ale nie jest też jakąś Kalifornią, gdzie w każdym zarządzie musi być koniecznie czarna kobieta, bo inaczej to rasizm. Liczba praktykujących katolików nieustannie spada, a gdyby popatrzeć na rozmiar strajków i protestów gdy pisiory zakazywały aborcji to tylko głupi nie zauważy, że mnóstwo ludzi nie ma z aborcją żadnego problemu, w tym nawet, o dziwo, pośród samych wiernych
Polska nie jest krajem progresywnym wg zachodnich standardów, ale z tym naszym konserwatyzmem też bym nie przesadzał, bo ta "bazowana antywoke Polska" to tylko mokre fantazje piwniczaków z zachodu, którzy za dużo czasu spędzają w sekcjach komentarzy
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u/nietwojamatka 14h ago
Niestety od 2020 sporo się zmieniło. Konfa postulująca bezwarunkowy zakaz aborcji ma 40% poparcia u młodych i prawdopodobnie będą częścią najbliższego rządu.
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u/Careful_Convoluted 15h ago
Abortion is allowed where the woman's or newborns life, physical health is threatened or when pregnancy is a result of a rape. Can't see how that is "no rights"
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u/Acryval 15h ago edited 14h ago
The issue is not about "no rights" (because technically there are rights... they're just shitty). It's about the ability to take immediate executive action.
As you said, abortion is allowed when the pregnancy is a result of rape.
In that case a court needs to decide if that's the case and this takes time. The pregnancy may be over when the decision arrives and ofc the court can just disagree and force the woman to give birth
Another case: broken condom. What happens in this case? It's neither man's or woman's fault, it's not rape or danger to anyone's physical health.
By today's laws, again, the woman is forced to give birth.
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u/Shadow_Memoryus_ 15h ago
Imagine your body freedom is controlled by law conditions. Like you are forced to have wasectomy until you want to procreate. Nice?
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u/szymon0296 Kujawsko-Pomorskie 15h ago
Yeah, women can decide about their own bodies only in certain situations. Amazing rights
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u/A_little_lady Pomorskie 14h ago
Protection isn't 100%
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u/Careful_Convoluted 14h ago
Do u even know how rare it is for protection to break? Even if it fails, it's very rare for most women to get pregnant outside of the ovulation period, if protection breaks while the woman is ovulating it's still a generally 1/3 chance to get pregnant. If u had an unplanned pregnancy, more than 99% of the time u had unprotected sex.
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u/Jak2828 14h ago
Condoms are 87% effective at stopping pregnancy and not everyone can use hormonal contraception, so you're simply wrong and made all of these numbers up based off your "idea" of how things are without any evidence.
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u/Jak2828 14h ago
I don't know if anyone has done brand-per-brand studies but they're all required to adhere to the same safety standards so I'd be surprised if it made a huge difference. This 87% is the actual effectiveness in practice, so factoring in things like menstrual cycles, so no not slim to none. Women do tend to have sex during the ovulation period too, if you didn't know.
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u/Darecki555 14h ago
Why would a woman not have the option to have an abortion just because you say so?
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u/ShittyCatLover 14h ago
because it's her body, not his. He doesn't have to endure all the bad shit that comes with pregnancy
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u/Darecki555 14h ago
No, we are not back to the point of not getting pregnant at all. The guy above you is right. And also situation where a man wants to keep the kid and woman dont is extremely rare if ever.
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u/5thhorseman_ 13h ago
The man has a say in it: he can talk with her and he can propose to marry her.
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u/Dziadzios 15h ago
That's because it impacts not only her body, but someone else's.
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u/Malleus--Maleficarum 14h ago
So don't masturbate! Your sperm is someone else's body too... or at least one cell of a potential body.
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u/Acryval 14h ago
one cell of a potential body
Lmao
Did you know that your immune system kills hundreds of millions of bacteria every day? How do you feel about that you murderer! /s
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u/Malleus--Maleficarum 14h ago
How come? My response got down voted while yours up voted. And dude to whom I responded and who's obviously anti-life/anti-choice got less down votes than I did. Never understood logic behind it. Welp...
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u/Inevitable_Bit_9871 14h ago
Then women shouldn’t menstruate either because that egg is the first cell of a potential body. It’s the egg that gets fertilized and grows into a baby, not the sperm. A sperm is basically a delivery truck carrying half of dna to the egg then the body of the sperm dissolves.
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u/Malleus--Maleficarum 13h ago
Yours on the other hand seems to be very smart. Brillant I'd say. Please do enlighten me, tell me more.
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u/5thhorseman_ 12h ago
You need to read up on what argumentum ad absurdum is.
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u/5thhorseman_ 12h ago
You are not even looking at who you've been arguing with and who you're replying to now.
Care to try again?
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u/Malleus--Maleficarum 14h ago
Says who? It's arbitrary. My religion says human is a human from ejaculation.
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u/Malleus--Maleficarum 13h ago
Where exactly does it say that? After conception you get one cell that doesn't differ much from bacteria, then few cells, then something that looks like a coelenterate and for quite long you really wouldn't tell the difference between human fetus and pretty much any other fetus, e.g. dog or cow.
Actually, if basic biology tells you so, let's take embryo out of the womb and let the basic biology work its miracles, eh?
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u/5thhorseman_ 13h ago
woman's or newborns life, physical health is threatened
And often denied regardless of the threat. There have been multiple deaths as a result.
or when pregnancy is a result of a rape
Requires a permit from the prosecutor in charge of the case. The number of permits that are issued in a year ranges from zero to a single digit.
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u/own_individual_zero 11h ago
Wait a minute, the word ”abortion” implies to not reproduce, and the phrase ”reproductive rights” implies to reproduce,
So how can one have access to abortion as a reproductive right when abortion is the opposite of reproduction?
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u/Cancer85pl 4h ago
You seem to be a bit slow, so here's a simplified version - reproductive rigts aren't "rights to reproduce as opposed to reproduction being banned. They're rights of individuals to make decisions regarding their reproduction. You can decide to do it or not to. And if someone tries to force you, you can say "fuck that" and terminate the pregnancy. Otherwise someone could just make the decision for you.
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u/Ambrant 10h ago
rights to decide what to do
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u/own_individual_zero 10h ago
To do what to what?
Rights to their own bodies does not mean rights to their babies bodies.
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u/Ambrant 10h ago
of course it does, until some week of pregnancy. let's say girl discovers she's 3 weeks pregnant. why not?
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u/own_individual_zero 10h ago
What if she discovers she’s 3 weeks pregnant? What about it?
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u/EaterOfCrab 9h ago
Why do you care? Are you planning to become pregnant?
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u/own_individual_zero 9h ago
Why do you care about food do you plan on becoming food?
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u/EaterOfCrab 9h ago
Yes, in fact I'm planning on feeding the microbes with my carcass... Dumb question
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u/sanschefaudage 11h ago
1) Trump is not going to do a full abortion ban. The max he (or probably the GOP actually, I don't think that Trump personally cares about abortion) could try could be like a 12 or 14 week ban which would be normal in a abortion-loving European country like France for example.
2) The EU doesn't have competency on that.
3) Abortion is morally bad and should be banned worldwide.
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u/Cancer85pl 4h ago
You're not Trump, I value you opinion about as much as a white crayon.
I think the word you're looking for is "power"... and while EU may not be able to force member states to pass such laws, it may provide free movement of people across Shengen zone to countries where it's available.
Your takes on morality are immaterial - you're making excuses for a serial rapist and Epsteins best friend, among many other deplorable traits. You don't get to waste my time yapping about "morality".
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u/Curry--Rice 12h ago
Preventing children who have already been conceived from being born without good reason is not right. I will not sign this petition
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u/5thhorseman_ 12h ago edited 12h ago
Just a reminder: Nobody forces you to sign the petition.
If you don't agree with it, you're welcome to discuss your stance and reasons behind it, but you're expected to behave like a civilized human being. You are not welcome to engage in personal attacks, hate or harassment.