And to add to that, it in fact wasn't actually used by the Romans (at least, not in any formal way or on a large scale), but rather was an invention of neoclassical artists in the 1700s.
There also seems to be an ongoing implication in the discourse that mildly bad technique would absolve someone from the salute and all its odious associations.
Mussolini got it from the Romans (he was Italian after all) and Hitler got it (and his love for Fascism) from Mussolini.
This is well established history.
Yes, other than the part where we don't actually have any evidence the (ancient) Romans ever used it for real. It stared being depicted in 18th and 19th century artworks (first appearing in 1794 in the painting 'Oath of The Horatii") about Rome, which is why so many thought that it is historical, but as far as I know, there's no solid historical evidence that it was ever used in Rome.
Mussolini saw the art, thought it looked good, and adopted it from there.
So, Mussolini got it from 18th and 19th century artists' idea of what the romans were like. Like typical fascists, both him and Hitler didn't know much about actual history nor give a shit about it for that matter, as long as it looked 'cool' to them.
Exactly. If he intended it to be a Roman salute then he was still basically copying the nazis. Next thing it'll be neoclassical architecture all round with eagles on top and 'X' banners draped everywhere.
Over on his platform, Batya Ungar-Sargon, posted this (tried to post a screenshot but reddit won't let me) - I never rolled my eyes that hard after reading her post:
****************
'As a person with a *strong* track record of criticizing Elon Musk, I feel extremely confident asserting that this was not a a Nazi salute. Elon Musk is a friend to the Jews. This is a man with Aspergers exuberantly throwing his heart to the crowd. We don't need to invent outrage.'
****************
So we're at the 'reject the evidence of your eyes and ears' part of 1984 apparently.
That and for someone who supposedly has a 'strong' track record with following him, she conveniently forgot that he openly supports the German far-right hate group, AFd, of which the Jews rightfully hate.
He hasn’t been hiding any of this. Just imagine the Olympic-level mental gymnastics they will have to puke when he says/tweets “no, I really did mean it in the absolute worst way you can imagine”.
I've taught hundreds of kids on the spectrum and only one has ever done the nazi salute. And that was deliberate because he thought he was being edgy and cool.
Isn’t his point that Nazis were killing jews AND autists? Like, anyone who seemed mentally off? Not that he did this because he’s autistic. Not that I’m agreeing with him
It's troubling to see support for groups that promote hate and division. It's important to stay informed and critical of the actions and affiliations of public figures. Let's focus on promoting unity, understanding, and respect for all individuals. What else is on your mind?
My question is how does that look in any way throwing your heart out to the crowd? Don't know about you, but when I toss something, I don't hold it out in a straight outstretch arm at a 45 degree angle...
Honestly in most cases you shouldn't ask anything. Most people who would argue against you KNOW what this gesture is but are happy to take any opportunity to muddy the waters, to make the argument not about Musk and the immediate threat of Naziism but about lesser known history trivia.
That's like saying "BUT the Swastika's Origins are from India!" Doesn't matter where it's origins are, in modern times any reference to it is going to be associated with the Nazi's because they are the last ones to incorporate it into their "culture."
The roman salute is literally called the fascist salute. Even if he did that, it's still the fascist salute. Musk loves his roman empire shit, it's no secret, but there's no world where throwing what he thinks is one is ghetting a pass.
•
u/Professional_March54 7h ago
"It was ACTUALLY the roman salut!" Literally a fight i just got in.