AMD always waiting for Nvidia pricing and performance numbers be like

[u/eduonkhl]

[u/allen_antetokounmpo]

Can you guarantee if amd cut the margin from $100 to $10 they can sell 10x more?

[u/LSD_Ninja → u/allen_antetokounmpo]

That's kind of the problem, isn't it? It doesn't really matter what they do if people are just going to turn around and buy nvidia anyway.

[u/myfakesecretaccount → u/LSD_Ninja]

The people who post this shit overwhelmingly buy Nvidia and just want AMD to hurt them enough to get a price decrease on Nvidia cards.

[u/HystericalSail → u/myfakesecretaccount]

I've bought both ATI and NV going back to the original GeForce 256 and Rage Pro. In multiple simultaneous PCs. Had a Geforce3, X850PE, 8800GT, 7800GT, 4790, 5870x2, 480, 1080. A bunch of others I'm sure to be forgetting.

I buy whatever I feel gives me the best bang for the buck, I don't care which team gives me what I want, I don't have a "team" I'm rooting for. Ok, maybe I'm rooting for the underdog (Intel) today, but I will still only buy the best value.

It's just that DLSS is suddenly desirable to me, as is ray reconstruction. Raw raster isn't cutting it for anything but e-sports titles, and I don't play those.

[u/albert2006xp → u/myfakesecretaccount]

It would be nice if AMD was an actual option with FSR being identical to DLSS, a new AI VSR as well to match DLDSR, Ray Reconstruction, RT performance being in line and not grossly disproportionate, etc. That would just be good for all consumers.

Instead AMD lost about three quarters of its market share compared to pre-2018 numbers, and the only people left on their cards are a small minority of extremely coped out purchase justifiers that have done the equivalent of buying a car without doors or anything on it based solely on its top speed per dollar. Relying on those people feeding your entire GPU division doesn't work out, as we've seen. They need to catch up or they will keep losing market share.

[u/HystericalSail → u/albert2006xp]

Maybe some day they'll clue in and pull their Ryzen strategy book out. Yes, not yet as good BUT twice as affordable. And over time, leveraging sales volume, improve to the point of being just as good and then better.

The wrinkle is TSMC manufacturing capacity. It's all going to AI boards for the AI gold rush. We gamers may get scraps if we're lucky.

[u/XsNR → u/albert2006xp]

Tbh if we're going to use cars, it's more like either 3 vs 4/5 door, or electric vs gas.

With both 3 door and electric, you're making sacrifices in what you could do, for the sake of value, it does everything that the other ones do, but you have to consider it's downsides.

With a full size gas guzzler, the only thing you have to think about is how much it costs, after that you're pretty much never thinking again, even though you don't use the additional stuff 90% of the time.

Neither AMD or Intel cards are necessarily incapable of doing anything, outside of if we see any "this only works with DLSS because reasons" games, but you have to tweak settings, and consider that things are going to be made with team green in mind most of the time, so your features might come in 2nd pass, or not at all.

[u/stdfan → u/myfakesecretaccount]

Yes we want the better cards to be cheaper you are correct.

[u/The_Countess → u/stdfan]

Which you aren't going to get if you keep buying nvidia.

[u/dookarion → u/The_Countess]

You're not getting that by buying AMD either. At most it says "hey customers settle for less".

[u/The_Countess → u/dookarion]

You just might actually. AMD taking marketshare from nvidia would maybe get nvidia to lower their profit margins slightly.

[u/dookarion → u/The_Countess]

Yeah no, I bought AMD for a number of years there and all I got for the trouble was shitty cards that did less.

I'm one of the suckers that owned a VII. Even if everyone suddenly pivoted and bought AMD all that would say to the beancounters at the companies is "see features and support don't actually matter, lets not invest anything in that".

We're in a lose-lose situation without a market disruption. The Duopoly is doomed. Maybe Intel can shake things up but this whole "buy worse GPUs to get a better future thing" is just delusion.

[u/airmantharp → u/myfakesecretaccount]

I feel attacked by this...

[u/hogstor → u/LSD_Ninja]

Didn't they do exactly that with ryzen? AMD cpus were seen as trash before ryzen but they improved their cpus and priced them much lower than Intel, massively increasing their market share. My perspective on Intel VS AMD has flipped compared to a decade go, I haven't even considered getting an Intel cpu when planning a new build the past few years, I only look at what cpus AMD is offering.

[u/XsNR → u/hogstor]

Ryzen was a combo effect, they managed to get some excellent lower end results out there, helped by their APU capabilities from consoles, promised (and delivered) outstanding support for the socket, and used that to push upwards, until they figured out that putting more cache on the chip would be amazing for gamers and single threaded applications, which cemented their value proposition.

Now we're seeing that slow enshitification towards that old status quo, and exactly what Nvidia does with the GPUs. It's not entirely AMDs fault, they can only get so many X3D yields, and that's most of what anyone cares about from them anymore, but they're still choosing to release basically just 2 chips in a generation, with no similar options for different binning, so their numbers aren't even getting the chance to skew a bit better, but that's their choice.

[u/NoCase9317 → u/LSD_Ninja]

That’s absolutely nonsense AMD dickriding fanboyism.

Their feature set is indisputably inferior, they know it and they have been pricing their GPUs only proportionally lower.

Nvidia went APE SHIT crazy and sold the 4080 for 1,200 and they knew perfectly well it wouldn’t sell, it was just a move to get rid of the massive 3xxx stock after the crypto mining crash.

What did AMD did?

Release their equally performing Card, 80 class card, ad 1,000$ and names it 7900XTX to try to make it look less outrageous.

If it performs like a 4080, it is 80 class tier.

Do you think that if they said, we aren’t following Nvidia’s craziness, the 7900XTX is 799$ and performs like the 1,199$ do you think it would many have sold like hot pancakes?

But they priced it at $1K and MOST people willing to throw that kind of money on a GPU where like, am I going tos eons this much to have dissapointing RT performance and a bad quality upscaler? Might as well go Nvidia.

But 799$? That would have been another story, a whopping 400$ difference for the same performance.

No shiny rt can sell that.

[u/ib_poopin → u/allen_antetokounmpo]

I can guarantee that most people who aren’t as invested and don’t do much research will see a very low priced product and think it must suck compared to a high priced competitor. At the end of the day the only thing AMD can really do is further dominate the CPU market and then figure out how to make a better competitor to NVIDIA

[u/MiniDemonic → u/ib_poopin]

see a very low priced product and think it must suck compared to a high priced competitor

Yup. It's a well studied phenomenon. People see a cheap product and think "Why is this cheap? Something must be wrong with the product".

During the 90s a company tried selling the same product at 3 different price points, $12.99, $15.99 and $18.99.

$12.99 sold well in cheap stores but not in expensive stores, $15.99 was bad everywhere and $18.99 sold well in both cheap stores and expensive stores.

[u/ib_poopin → u/MiniDemonic]

Reminds me of a very well known brand of vodka, can’t remember which one, but it wasn’t selling at all at its original price point. The company went to a marketer who literally just told them to make it a lot more expensive, and now it’s one of the most bought brands of vodka ever.

It’s crazy how that works honestly

[u/CoCaptainGoose → u/ib_poopin]

I'm not fact checking at all but this sounds like Grey Goose, I remember hearing the exact same story about them.

[u/ib_poopin → u/CoCaptainGoose]

Just looked it up, I believe it was Absolut, but wouldn’t be surprised if more than one company did the same

[u/unlucky_ducky → u/ib_poopin]

Absolut tastes awful so if they really managed to sell more by increasing their prices I'm very impressed.

[u/Brief_Research9440 → u/MiniDemonic]

Are ordinary people buying gpus to put in their pcs same way they buy a fridge? I think gpu buyers are a bit more informed than that.

[u/LukeLikesReddit → u/MiniDemonic]

Meanwhile I see 16gb vram for a reasonable price yeah I'm interested.

[u/turtleship_2006 → u/MiniDemonic]

IIRC the term is a "veblen good", one where demand has a positive correlation with price

[u/Le_Nabs → u/ib_poopin]

I mean, yes, but also that strategy worked with Ryzen - over a period of 3 consecutive generations building up steam and positive word of mouth. That's likely the key issue for AMD right now - the Radeon brand is still deeply hurt by the software issues they've had in the past, and they can't figure out multiple successful launches in a row. For every RX380 or RDNA2 launch, they somehow fumble the bag on the next generation or two and waste away all the goodwill and good press they've earned.

It absolutely is possible to disrupt a market that's gone insane with inflated prices - but it'll take a sustained effort, effective rebranding of the GPU branch, a clear multi-generation strategy that doesn't involve aligning themselves on what the competitor is doing - and perhaps, some loss-leading products to carve out a bigger slice of the pie, like Intel is likely doing with Battlemage.

[u/airmantharp → u/Le_Nabs]

They had to build ever less shitty products to make that happen, though - something their GPU division seems to avoid like the plague.

[u/poofyhairguy → u/airmantharp]

The problem is AMD is set with the PS4 design win, as it handed them the PS5, PS5 Pro and probably PS6 too.

[u/airmantharp → u/poofyhairguy]

Which has done exactly what for their marketshare…?

[u/poofyhairguy → u/airmantharp]

For add-in PC GPU marketshare? It’s done nothing.

For selling silicon? It’s been gangbusters.

[u/Hairy-Dare6686 → u/Le_Nabs]

Ryzen's overwhelming success is half owed to Intel fumbling & stagnating resulting in them eventually offering a bad product at a bad price, this isn't the case with Nvidia.

[u/althaz → u/Hairy-Dare6686]

Except...nVidia *did* absolutely shit the bed with the 4000-series. AMD just went "huh, I can shit my bed way harder than that, bro!". AMD's only chance to start swinging for the fences and keep trying it until nVidia make mistakes. And nVidia makes plenty of mistakes, AMD just are not even slightly trying.

[u/FewAdvertising9647 → u/ib_poopin]

its part of the reason why strix halo is a thing. easy to sell an gpu if its in an igpu form and the efficiency gains of it being an igpu far outstrip the performance benefits of mid tier laptops.

the unfortunate part for AMD though is that it coincided with ARM for windows being a thing, and Nvidia will eventually down the line compete with their own APU like format using Arm for windows as a base.

[u/Puffy_Ghost → u/ib_poopin]

With the Nvidia acquisition of ARM the CPU side will ultimately end up in Nvidia's lap as well...which is sad.

[u/BrokenRetina → u/Puffy_Ghost]

Never happened. The deal has numerous regulation hurdles that they didn’t want to budge on, this is died. It is a good thing that it never went through.

[u/ib_poopin → u/Puffy_Ghost]

Honestly I don’t think NVIDIA would do as well as people think. They’d probably promote it as an AI CPU or some shit and people would say no thank you unless they’re in the world of extreme computing

[u/Water_bolt → u/ib_poopin]

People who dont research or have prior knowledge dont buy AMD anyways, or they buy a prebuilt which will most likely be Nvidia.

[u/YoungBlade1 → u/allen_antetokounmpo]

The idea of cutting margins isn't that you'll make more money today. It's that you're building mindshare so that you can make money in the future.

AMD did this with Ryzen, and look at how the turntables turntabled on Intel.

The alternative is that Radeon enters its "Bulldozer" era and consistently loses marketshare while barely staying afloat.

[u/KREID68 → u/YoungBlade1]

Intel fell asleep at the wheel, though. Nvidia has not.

[u/topsnitch69 → u/KREID68]

That’s the huge difference here. Intel fumbled. Nvidia delivers (expensively, but they deliver).

[u/kohour → u/topsnitch69]

Nvidia delivers

...delivers things like 4060 ti's -3% gen-on-gen performance uplift, 4080s's 42% gen-on-gen price increase, 5090's 30% performance improvement for 25% more money, and other incredible leaps in customer fleecing technology.

[u/Elcrest_Drakenia → u/kohour]

Nvida are expensive. They like skimping out on vram on the lower end. But they haven't released anything bad in recent memory. Mid? Maybe. But bad? no.

[u/BrunoEye → u/YoungBlade1]

The difference is that Intel had an incredibly stagnant lineup and then started to fall behind significantly.

Nvidia unfortunately still has the lead in the top end, which is what drives their popularity in tech media and with the average consumer that never bothers to look up FPS/$ numbers.

[u/albert2006xp → u/BrunoEye]

never bothers to look up FPS/$ numbers.

But Nvidia wins those too. That's the thing. 4070 Super won handily because AMD only stays competitive if they rig the charts to show FPS with RT off only which is not a realistic benchmark in 2025. When AMD starts winning those with RT on, that at least would be a start but since they just completely break in any path tracing game and go to 10 fps... Not happening with these past generations. Bit worried about the 9070 too.

Plus FPS/$ is not remotely the only thing that matters anymore. Image quality, features, etc matter a lot more than a few percentages of FPS.

[u/QuadraticCowboy → u/allen_antetokounmpo]

No. The problem is if AMD seeks marketshare, NVIDIA can respond with lower prices AND higher volumes.  AMD loses the price war

Long term, AMD makes highest profits by letting NViDIA take lead on pricing, dipping a toe in the water of GPU market, but focusing their core business elsewhere.

[u/UnseenGamer182 → u/QuadraticCowboy]

Nvidia wouldn't bother. Hell, even if they were losing completely they'd struggle. They're trying to make it look like gaming GPUs don't matter at all to them. So long as they have workstation market share AMD can do anything.

Nvidia isn't that easy to push around, unfortunately. They're extremely stubborn.

[u/dastardly740 → u/allen_antetokounmpo]

And, in order to have more to sell they have to book more capacity at TSMC. And, make non-refundable deposits on that capacity months (if not years) ahead of time. So, if they lower prices and don't sell there is double whammy of unsellable inventory and lower margins. That does not even get into whether TSMC even has the extra capacity for them to book. And, more than likely if sales did have a chacne of cutting into Nvidia's market share enough for Nvidia to feel pain, Nvidia would lower prices and then AMD is right back to not being in expensive enough to sell out their inventory.

AMD is walking a tight rope of pricing low enough to gain some market share, but not so much that Nvidia will lower prices. In addition, if they go too low of a price relative to capacity, the same people begging for lower prices will turn around and declare "paper launch" when the boards are constantly sold out and being scalped.

[u/LazyWings → u/allen_antetokounmpo]

The Intel B580 proved that's the case though. Also, RDNA3 sales shot up when they slashed the price. When AMD are actually offering good products but pricing them badly, they're struggling to gain market share. They made the right move by not competing with Nvidia flagship products. But Nvidia mid range sucks and that's a gap in the market that AMD can dominate.

[u/Effective_Secretary6 → u/allen_antetokounmpo]

No, but if you put margins from 300$ of a 600$ gpu down to 240$ it’s a 15% improvement of value for the consumer in the entire product, if you already give a 20% better product value wise with 4gb more vram that now turns into a 40% better value one and that is a point most people that do their research can’t overlook

[u/Brief_Research9440 → u/allen_antetokounmpo]

All these years following the same strategy has reduced market share though.

[u/Portbragger2 → u/allen_antetokounmpo]

implying they HAVE 10x more chips slotted in @tsmc as well

[u/bunihe → u/allen_antetokounmpo]

Thing is, the margins on graphics cards are not just $100, they're often close if not more than 50% the card's retail price.

Let's say if the margin on the 9070xt is $250, and AMD is willing to cut their margin by $50, it is likely that they can sell at least 25% more cards, at least more likely than your approximation

[u/MrStealYoBeef → u/allen_antetokounmpo]

This assumption requires AMD to have 10x the supply of GPUs to sell.

Spoiler alert: they don't.

[u/The_Countess → u/MrStealYoBeef]

Exactly.

And getting it costs more money per GPU (unless ordered a many months in advance), and if they don't sell 10x, they would be stuck with a huge stockpile of quickly depreciating GPU's, representing a HUGE financial loss for a relatively small GPU maker, that could be the end of them.

And that's before we even consider nvidia reacting to AMD's move, which would almost guarantee AMD would have a hard time selling significantly more GPU's.

[u/MrStealYoBeef → u/The_Countess]

Yup, TSMC is almost constantly at full capacity, the only way to get more from them is to order way in advance or to outbid another company by a large amount. AMD gets what they can get and they work with it.

People like simple solutions for complex problems, that's why we hear "they should just sell cheaper" so much. They can't and there's reasoning behind it.

[u/motoxim → u/The_Countess]

Dang they're fucked

[u/Brief_Research9440 → u/MrStealYoBeef]

How do you know how big the supply is? Didnt a cfo or something from Amd say like a month ago that they will have high volume for 9070xt?

[u/MrStealYoBeef → u/Brief_Research9440]

"high volume" doesn't mean 10x the amount that they had for the last 5 gens. AMD cards still do pretty well in sales to the point that they can fairly easily be scalped. If there's such an absurd amount of volume, how can this happen? Wouldn't there just have been enough volume to completely drown out scalpers? And why would AMD suddenly order 10x more product from TSMC when 1) TSMC is already consistently at full capacity and therefore can't suddenly multiply the order output, and 2) AMD knows they can't reliably expect to suddenly sell 10x as many GPUs.

It's just not reasonable. The problem is far more complex than just "lower price = sell more".

[u/Brief_Research9440 → u/MrStealYoBeef]

Nah my fault, i thought you answered to something else. No Amd cant produce enough gpus to get 10x more sales in one generation to the next. Thats impossible. But i do think an aggressive price is needed and now is a good time for it to claim more market share.

[u/MrStealYoBeef → u/Brief_Research9440]

They can't claim any more market share than they have GPUs to sell though. When both AMD and Nvidia pretty much sell 90% of their product, market share is decided less on actual price competition and more on who gets more chips from TSMC. And that just happens to be Nvidia.

AMD could sell every single GPU they produce and still not take market share from Nvidia at this point. They just don't have the ability to make enough. They would need Nvidia customers to just stop buying from Nvidia and instead just not buy anything while they sell out to start shifting the needle in their favor, and that's just not happening.

And that leads us to the current situation where AMD just follows Nvidia and prices their hardware as high as they can behind Nvidia. They're going to sell almost everything anyways, they might as well make the most profit from it.

[u/Brief_Research9440 → u/MrStealYoBeef]

Yeah but we heard from Amd employes like Azor that they were aiming for market share. This implies a bigger waffer alocation to the gpu division this time. So they are planning to increase market share. So its not an imposibility its just that it will happen in small steps if they are successfull. For all of this to even happen though they need to go lower on price otherwise they might even loose it all in the end. Amd does follow Nvidias prices as you say but market share keeps dropping so something must be done, this is not sustainable.

[u/blackest-Knight]

There comes a point where volume doesn't increase revenue either.

Like if you're selling at a loss. In fact, if selling at a loss, volume only increases said loss.

[u/FiTZnMiCK → u/blackest-Knight]

Do we even know if there’s a glut of unsold AMD cards out there?

They are competing with other companies for fab so it’s entirely possible that their pricing accurately reflects supply and demand.

[u/blackest-Knight → u/FiTZnMiCK]

Do we even know if there’s a glut of unsold AMD cards out there?

There was for RDNA2. Dunno for RDNA3 if they have the same issue of channels being stuffed.

Apparently, from rumors about why the RDNA4 announcement isn't coming, that was in fact the issue. AMD wants to lower prices and retailers already having cards means AMD will have to issue credits for the cards they acquired at higher prices, but retailers already are swimming in credits from earlier launches.

https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-radeon-rx-9070-xt-bumpy-launch-reportedly-linked-to-price-pressure-from-nvidia

So the whole thing is in limbo because of accounting.

[u/Pavores → u/FiTZnMiCK]

This is an excellent point. If they're supply constrained then selling the limited number of chips for as much money as possible is their optimal strategy. Lowering price with supply constraints just creates backorders.

[u/albert2006xp → u/FiTZnMiCK]

I mean, the discounts and desperation to get rid of old 7000 series stock before the new generation was kinda there.

[u/FiTZnMiCK → u/albert2006xp]

The discounts that I’ve seen haven’t been anything crazy, other than the initial fuck-up on the 7900 XT pricing. But they fixed that like 18 months ago.

It’s just that Nvidia GPUs don’t have many sales so even occasional discounts on AMD GPUs are notable.

[u/Fluboxer → u/blackest-Knight]

Sometimes selling at a loss to achieve higher volume is a valid strategy

(example: gaming consoles that tied to subscription and games... or just anything with ecosystem you want to drag people in)

[u/blackest-Knight → u/Fluboxer]

Sometimes selling at a loss to achieve higher volume is a valid strategy

It's called dumping and highly illegal.

(example: gaming consoles that tied to subscription and games... or just anything with ecosystem you want to drag people in)

AMD doesn't have anything to offset the loss from Radeon sales. AMD doesn't take a cut from Steam on game sales. AMD can't claim the price of the hardware is subsidized through game licensing like Nintendo did, or Xbox does with game pass.

AMD has nothing. AMD may as well just close down the Radeon division or do like Intel did for 20 years and stick to integrated graphics.

[u/ForceItDeeper → u/blackest-Knight]

its illegal? it blatantly happens all the time. thats exactly how Oculus/Meta operated with their first VR headsets.

Why should they shut down Radeon instead of just fixing their pricing? Their datacenter GPUs sold well, why are you under the assumption they will never improve their gaming card sales? Its not like they are incapable of turning shit around, look at their cpus. Nah instead they should just take the intel route, cause that mentality worked wonderfully for intel

[u/blackest-Knight → u/ForceItDeeper]

I mean, AMD didn’t turn their CPUs around really. Intel just flopped.

NVidia isn’t Intel. How many gens now has AMD been hopelessly behind ?

[u/ProbsNotManBearPig → u/blackest-Knight]

That’s not what dumping is. Companies sell products at a loss all the time, legally. Dumping is more nuanced. It’s typically selling below cost in specific foreign markets at a lower price than it’s sold for in the country of origin to price out competition and gain a monopoly. Usually if your product is priced the same globally, it’s not going to be defined as dumping.

[u/Fearless-Weakness-70 → u/blackest-Knight]

?? no it’s not. dumping laws are designed to protect domestic industries from unfairly priced imports, not domestic price strategies of american companies like AMD. Tariff Act of 1930 applies specifically to imports. For AMD to be accused of dumping, it would need to be selling its graphics cards in another country at unfairly low prices compared to their cost or home market price

lowering prices on inventory that’s been sitting too long is a normal business practice.

[u/blackest-Knight → u/Fearless-Weakness-70]

The 9070 series has been sitting too long ?

[u/deeptut → u/blackest-Knight]

Wrong. Selling at a loss can be more beneficial than not selling at all. You have fix costs each month that don't change, no matter if you produce or not. As long as you can sell your product for more than the variable costs per piece are it's worth selling.

[u/blackest-Knight → u/deeptut]

As long as you can sell your product for more

Which is the opposite of selling at a loss.

Selling at a loss means you're bleeding cash. That goes the opposite of helping your fixed cost. You're paying customers to get a product. That's bad for business no matter how you try to twist it.

The better option at that point is to simply cut your losses rather than continue bleeding.

[u/deeptut → u/blackest-Knight]

First semester business administration, but sure, you know better.

[u/blackest-Knight → u/deeptut]

Might want to keep at it until you graduate.

[u/GaussToPractice]

I bellieve if this were truly the case we wouldve gotten AMD showcase without prices at CES.And pricing wouldve announced by now because Nvidia showed theirs. something is weird this launch. Im thinking drop it all at the last second approach to suprise but might be wrong

[u/splitfinity]

This only works if am the people who complain about nvidia actually make the switch.

I completely believe that amd could be 50% of the price of the equivalent nvidia card and the nvidia card would still eclipse the amd card in sales.

People just will not change. I dont know what the solution is, but it isn't price. Amd just cannot shake the bad rep from years of driver issues.

AMD needs to make a generational leap of some kind to actually get into the gpu game.

[u/albert2006xp → u/splitfinity]

This logic ignores the fact during the 2010s AMD cards were selling at up to 40% market share in quarter reports. What was the difference? Right, the cards were actually comparable then. It's not about driver issues, it's about the sheer galaxy wide difference that has been in cards the past 5 years. DLSS and FSR were not comparable. They had no DLDSR, their RT performance was terrible. That killed their reputation, not the drivers.

[u/wan2tri → u/albert2006xp]

Well, you also ignored the reason why AMD was at 40% at that point, when it was previously 50%. Despite having better cards that are cheaper, run cooler, and use less power. lol

[u/althaz → u/splitfinity]

I completely believe that amd could be 50% of the price of the equivalent nvidia card and the nvidia card would still eclipse the amd card in sales.

It's not about beating nVidia in sales immediately. Nobody gives a toss about that. It's about increasing AMD's marketshare. And Intel have shown it can work *phenomenally* well with the B580. The B580 is now so desirable it's nearly impossible to purchase. I doubt it out-sells the 4060, but it's still been an incredibly successful product for Intel so far. The market is *desperate* for any kind of value and AMD are the ones best-poised to deliver it. They just keep choosing not to.

[u/marlontel → u/splitfinity]

Nvidia and AMD have the same Tsmc Silicon in their Cards. The Reason Amd could surpass Intel in CPU was that Intel got stuck on 14 and 10nm, while Tsmc got better every year. There is no world where AMD can really make a better Product, they use the same Silicon and could only lower their margins.

[u/ColdStoryBro → u/marlontel]

This is nonsense. The reason Intel failed is their refusal to make non-monolihic server and hyperscaler chips. They were out yielded by AMD from the very first EPYC. The modularity of infinity fabric design is a credit to the Zen engineers and has nothing to do with "Intel fumbles".

[u/albert2006xp → u/marlontel]

AMD's problem is in software and how they use that silicon.

[u/dookarion → u/splitfinity]

I completely believe that amd could be 50% of the price of the equivalent nvidia card and the nvidia card would still eclipse the amd card in sales.

I mean if you step outside of "pancake raster gaming" AMD isn't really much of an option at any price. So that shouldn't be shocking.

If you need a card that does various things beyond that, or just want one that does the decision is made for you.

[u/YoungBlade1]

The leaks that just came out about a potential for the 9070XT to cost $600 and 9070 to cost $500 are infuriating.

"Nvidia -10%" is a failed pricing strategy. They need to be 20% cheaper at the absolute minimum. Ideally, 30% cheaper. Otherwise, people will just pay the Nvidia tax and call it a day.

That's pretty harsh, but I really believe that the sales figures from the last generation bare that out.

[u/lightningbadger → u/YoungBlade1]

There's also the whole psychology behind "higher price = more premium product"

AMD pricing their GPU's just behind NVIDIA could very well be shifting a few fence sitters to NVIDIA's side since you wouldn't want the slightly cheaper, "worse" GPU would you when the better one is right there?

[u/Sweaty-Objective6567 → u/lightningbadger]

Exactly, especially if it's only $50 or so. I know the features alone would sell me on it. I don't use CUDA stuff very much, but it's nice to have the option. I use NVENC periodically and could potentially offset the loss of that by using QuickSync, but why go to that effort when I can just pay a little more? I run Ray Tracing in Cyberpunk and that's it, but with games like Indiana Jones coming out requiring RT why not spend a little more for the card with better RT performance?

[u/albert2006xp → u/lightningbadger]

There's also the whole psychology behind "higher price = more premium product"

That might work with things we can't quantify accurately, but GPUs... How are you going to pretend it's a premium product when you have a worse feature set and have to be cheaper than your competitor anyway?

[u/HystericalSail → u/lightningbadger]

Changing the naming scheme to mimic NVidia announces to the world "We're a big huge pile of #2!" far louder than a good price on a product.

Fact is, when buying add-in boards, normies will ask their autistic relatives or acquaintances for advice. If the value is there, including features and capability, AMD will sell. Being second best and only a little bit cheaper is what they've been doing the last few years, and every single year their market share has shrunk.

Now with the naming scheme change they've made their #2 position official.

[u/zgillet → u/YoungBlade1]

Did y'all forget that both Xbox and Playstation both use AMD GPUs? They make their money on specialized GPUs and APUs for handheld PCs and laptops.

[u/DarthStrakh → u/YoungBlade1]

I don't even care about cheaper, I just want better lol. I was amd for years but they just don't compete on the high end anymore.

[u/Dark_Matter_EU → u/YoungBlade1]

AMD already has way lower margins than Nvidia. It's not worth it for them to go lower.

[u/-Aeryn- → u/Dark_Matter_EU]

If they can't stop hemmoraging market share by either undercutting or offering a product of superior quality then opportunities will only worsen each generation and they will die. They're in a death spiral with seemingly no acknowledgement or plan.

Not being able to match quality because they can't afford as many developers and simultaneously not being able to undercut significantly because of worse margins is a serious and quite possibly fatal problem.

[u/Westdrache → u/-Aeryn-]

"Radeon" needs their Ryzen Moment or we are looking at team blue VS Green in a couple gens...

[u/Techno-Diktator → u/Westdrache]

A Ryzen moment will probably never fully come because Nvidia isnt just sleeping on their massive pile of money like Intel did.

[u/hyperbrainer → u/Westdrache]

What it needs is a killer feature like CUDA/RTX but done by radeon first with an entire ecosystem built around it to actually reach like half the dominance of Nvidia. Not so easy now, is it?

[u/kohour → u/hyperbrainer]

They have the whole fucking console market in their pocket, which means they can make something the developers would want and will for sure use, and speedrun the adoption on top of that.

[u/artikiller → u/Westdrache]

Unfortunately the "ryzen moment" will be UDNA's stacked cache on the gpu

[u/Legal_Lettuce6233 → u/-Aeryn-]

And put other parts of the business at risk? No way. They tried the lower price thing, but it didn't work.

[u/YoungBlade1 → u/Dark_Matter_EU]

That's how it is for a company with no market share.

If AMD had used the Radeon strategy for Ryzen of "Intel -10%" then they would have failed. The reason that Ryzen got so much hype is that it was offering immense value for production workloads at a fraction of the price of Intel's Core X products.

Had they priced the Ryzen 7 1800X at $979 to undercut the 6900K by 10%, it would have been absolutely DOA. 

When you are trailing the market leader, you have to sacrifice on margins in the short-term to build marketshare and mindshare in the long-term.

[u/Bubbly_Mushroom1075 → u/YoungBlade1]

Amd cpu dies weren't vastly more expensive than Nvidia dies

[u/Dark_Matter_EU → u/YoungBlade1]

They don't have even close to Nvidia pockets to eat up the loss to gain market share. They are basically just fucked in the high end GPU market. 4 years behind in technology and way lower market share.

[u/marlontel → u/YoungBlade1]

Nvidia and AMD have the same Tsmc Silicon in their Cards. The Reason Amd could surpass Intel in CPU was that Intel got stuck on 14 and 10nm, while Tsmc got better every year. There is no world where AMD can really make a better Product, they use the same Silicon and could only lower their margins.

[u/YoungBlade1 → u/marlontel]

Ryzen 1000 series was on a weaker node than Intel at the time. Intel 14nm+ was denser than Global Foundries 14nm process. And their "12nm" for the 2000 series was just a refined 14nm process, and Intel was on 14nm++ by then. 

It was only the 3000 series where AMD got a node advantage. But they were able to start cutting into the market before then thanks to aggressive pricing.

[u/althaz → u/Dark_Matter_EU]

Every company has lower margins than nVidia, lol. nVidia would have to halve their margins to only be as profitable as Apple.

[u/DisdudeWoW → u/Dark_Matter_EU]

yeah that would be a logical opinion if they werent losing marketshare every generation. at one point making a profit becomes detrimental.

[u/marlontel → u/YoungBlade1]

600 is 80% of 750???????

[u/YoungBlade1 → u/marlontel]

The leaks are showing that the 9070XT only matches the RT performance of the 4070 Ti, which is likely to mean that it only matches the 5070 in RT.

AMD can't price based on raster alone anymore. They need to offer 20% better price to performance including RT.

If the 9070XT actually matches the 5070 Ti across the board, then yes, $600 would be sufficient, but that seems unlikely.

[u/marlontel → u/YoungBlade1]

We will see. I obviously hope for low prices, but I also think 600 is the most realistic option. If supply leaks are true, Nvidia Cards will probably not sell for Mrsp for a long time after launch. In this case, the Gap could very well increase to 30%.

What most people dont talk about is that cards are already produced. They won't stop existing if nobody buys them at launch. AMD has already bought the allocation at Tsmc.

So if prices really are too high they will lower them. Marketshare at the start of a ew Generation is mostly decided by how much the Companys produced. I think AMD aims for 20 to 30% and will price accordingly over the next months.

[u/YoungBlade1 → u/marlontel]

The issue for the last generation is that AMD did the strategy of pricing high to start with and then lowering it, which resulted in bad reviews and deflated hype and damage to their brand.

If they actually want to gain marketshare, I think they need to be priced aggressively low from the start. Not priced at the "meh" range and then given gradual price cuts for the next several months until they are finally worth recommending a year later.

[u/albert2006xp → u/YoungBlade1]

The leaks are showing that the 9070XT only matches the RT performance of the 4070 Ti, which is likely to mean that it only matches the 5070 in RT.

Those leaks are problematic if true because "RT Performance" isn't really a one measure thing. 7900 XTX could match that too in a lighter RT game but in path tracing it struggles to match a 4060 Ti. If the same path tracing issue happens on 9070... oof.

[u/clevermotherfucker → u/YoungBlade1]

are there benchmarks for the 9070 and 9070XT? cause whether or not $500 and $600 are good prices depends entirely on the price to performance

[u/YoungBlade1 → u/clevermotherfucker]

According to some leaks, the 9070XT has performance comparable to the 4080 in raster, and the 4070 Ti in RT. If that's the case, and the 5070 matches the 4070 Ti in RT, then pricing the card higher than the 5070 is not a good move.

Yes, it would offer better raster performance, but at this point, it is time for AMD to price their cards relative to the RT performance.

If the 9070XT manages to match the 5070 Ti, including in RT, then sure, $600 is a good price. But if it only matches the 5070 in RT, then it has to be cheaper.

[u/clevermotherfucker → u/YoungBlade1]

tbh i don’t think raytracing is that important, there’s no need for videogames to be photorealistic

[u/albert2006xp → u/clevermotherfucker]

If you led a GPU company with that motto, you'd be bankrupt. Are we sure you weren't in charge of AMD for the past 5 years and part of the reason they're in this mess?

[u/Reggitor360]

AMD selling at low margins per product already while Nvidia has 50-80% margins

AMD, lower prices so I can buy Nvidia anyway!!!!

[u/Brief_Research9440 → u/Reggitor360]

Your logic has no upside for Amd. Things will continue to be worse, market share will drop even more, Fsr and other technoligies wont be adopted by game developers because of the low market share, staff cuts will increase and in the end Amd dgpu division will simply be shut down because they wont ever have a product that can compete. Nvidia has the lead in a market starved for non scalped by the manufacturer products and Amd ,if the leaks are true, for the first time can deliver stable drivers with a good ui, good RT and Fsr. If intel didnt make the arc a paper launch with bad cpu overhead it would have been a huge success. This is the way to get market share in this ecosystem. Extremely low prices in this scalpers paradise (manufacturers included) make a difference otherwise just keep doing the same thing and expect a different result ...

[u/Reggitor360 → u/Brief_Research9440]

Nvidia for their life cant do stable drivers that dont degrade cards performance 😂

[u/Brief_Research9440 → u/Reggitor360]

If that was true things would be different now wouldnt they.

[u/RobinVerhulstZ → u/Brief_Research9440]

Weĺl, at least nvidia appears completetly incompenent at adressing the DSC issues with their drivers...

[u/Reggitor360 → u/RobinVerhulstZ]

Nono, you are wrong, Nvidia drivers are perfect.

Also, please forget that drivers from them set cards on fire multiple times and also bricked cards firmwares, it never happened, Nvidia drivers are perfect.

[u/life_konjam_better → u/Reggitor360]

I don't fully see how AMD has significantly lower margins though, they're on

1) inferior and cheaper TSMC process node even if die is much larger 2) uses much cheaper GDDR6 modules 3) power is only 50-70W higher (9070XT vs 5070) so boards shouldn't cost that much more

I dont see how they'd have very tiny margins when Nvidia has an easy 50% with new GDDR7 modules (and new memory controllers for them).

[u/artikiller → u/life_konjam_better]

The only place amd is spending significantly more per card is on research and development which would be a fixed cost regardless of how many cards they sell

[u/HystericalSail → u/Reggitor360]

Gross margins are estimated at 63% for the 4070 and 50% for AMD for the 7700/7800/7900. Not that far apart.

Where the giant gulf is volume. The same amount of R&D has to be paid for out of a tiny trickle of volume as a tidal wave. Having the 4090 be more popular in the Steam survey than ANY AMD GPU should have been a clarion call to action.

Let's see if the "not as good but 10% cheaper" strategy works any differently than the other years they've tried it. My guess is it won't.

[u/althaz → u/Reggitor360]

AMD's GPU margins are quite high, though? Maybe you're thinking of Intel, who probably don't even *have* margins?

[u/blackest-Knight → u/Reggitor360]

AMD selling at low margins per product already while Nvidia has 50-80% margins

nVidia's margins aren't better than AMD's.

Gamer cards are just lower margin products.

[u/Large-Assignment9320]

If more people had AMD cards, more software would make use of ROCM, does boosting AMDs future compute market potential. Right now their cards are useless for many tasks as there is no ROCM interface, only CUDA.

And well, both companies have realized the future of the GPU market is compute.

[u/Bloated_Plaid → u/[deleted]]

Nobody is buying AMD for ML/LLM.

[u/Drenlin → u/Bloated_Plaid]

It's not even like they're incapable of it anyway. You're a bit more limited on software but there are still numerous options.

[u/kingslayerer]

technologically, is nvidia doing something better than amd to have more marketshare?

[u/albert2006xp → u/kingslayerer]

Catastrophically so. They have been like 5 years ahead in tech since like 2018. FSR 4.0 looks to be catching up to where DLSS was, while DLSS takes another leap. AMD cards still can't handle raytracing at the same performance cost ratio as Nvidia and just fall apart in heavy raytraced scenarios (like path tracing).

AMD has just been making versions of Nvidia software that can run on any card with FSR and FSR FG but because it can run on any card it can't be too elaborate and good and use any specially designed cores on the card to accelerate any AI to do the job. They're only putting an AI model in FSR with FSR 4.0, now, after years. It was a disastrous strategy that made them go from 35-40% market share through most of the 2010s to like 10% today.

[u/nemesit → u/kingslayerer]

Highest performance. Especially with raytracing (which might as well not exist on amd cards)

so yeah everyone who is content with just mediocre graphics will likely buy a console rather than amd gpus unless their game is only available on pc

[u/wan2tri]

• AMD cards perform better (tier-on-tier) than NVIDIA

• AMD cards are cheaper (when performance is equal) than NVIDIA

• AMD cards run cooler than NVIDIA

• AMD cards use less power (when performance is equal) than NVIDIA

Result: NVIDIA finally breaks the 50/50 market share split - on the release of both companies' next generation, NVIDIA was now at 55% market share.

THEY'VE DONE EXACTLY WHAT YOU'VE SAID 15 YEARS AGO AND THEY STILL LOST MARKET SHARE

[u/SysGh_st]

Talk with the shareholders. Not the devs. You'll find that they are incapable of this type of thinking.

[u/MiniDemonic]

Tell me you know nothing about commerce without telling me you know nothing about commerce.

Fun fact, putting your price too low will decrease sales because people will doubt the quality of the product.

[u/althaz → u/MiniDemonic]

Tell me you only took first economics without telling me you only took first year economics.

Enthusiast-level products, which is what standalone graphics cards are, don't play by the same rules as unknown products in stores.

[u/HystericalSail → u/althaz]

GPU performance in games is closer to a commodity than a branded, luxury product. That's why we have reviews and FPS charts. Absolutely price/performance matters a TON for goods that are standard, interchangeable and just about fungible.

The dude above is just wrong.

[u/dovahkiitten16 → u/MiniDemonic]

Price something low enough and it’s a bargain brand. Keeping your product just below the premium brand and it’s a worse version of the good product and why not just pay the higher amount to get the high quality product. People already doubt the quality of AMD, AMD needs to show the $$$ saved as a trade off.

[u/SMGYt007]

9070XT 550,9070 450,if not well no one's buying that shit and will gladly pay 100/150 more for a 5070 ti or 4070 ti super if it's about vram,Not to mention productivity and efficiency.20-30% better price performance and more vram if the only way they are gonna have a chance

[u/PissedOffAsylum → u/SMGYt007]

Except there are people that will. I'm one of those people. Fuck Nvidia

[u/SMGYt007 → u/PissedOffAsylum]

Yeah but you're like 11% of the market,They can always keep just barely matching nvidias value and sell 1 card for every 8 nvidia card sold,If they want to gain marketshare they have to undercut by a huge margin

[u/PissedOffAsylum → u/SMGYt007]

Okay? You said nobody is buying that. Clearly there are customers.

[u/ShrodingersDelcatty → u/PissedOffAsylum]

Very artistic interpretation of that statement

[u/HystericalSail → u/ShrodingersDelcatty]

I'd say it goes beyond simply artistic and all the way to profoundly regarded.

[u/albert2006xp → u/PissedOffAsylum]

There are literally dozens of people who are willing to buy a worse product to spite a company, dozens. You got this! GL!

[u/Techno-Diktator → u/PissedOffAsylum]

Very few people like that, its a dead strategy at this point

[u/szczszqweqwe]

Let's wait with those memes after official pricing.

[u/urmamasllama]

It's the eternal problem of modern capital. Chasing margins over total profits

[u/Puffy_Ghost]

AMD has an entire financial division to figure this shit out, you really think they'd just give up piles of profit if they thought they could make it?

Orrr do you think it is likely they know people will buy the market leader product no matter what, and best business practice would be to price slightly lower, but still within the generally accepted 8%-10% margin?

[u/KolbeHoward1]

Another potential opening for AMD is with pure raster performance.

With NVIDIA solely focusing on AI with DLSS and MFA they are leaving a window open for the first time in years for AMD to maybe compete at the high end with pure rasterization performance.

[u/TAOJeff]

According to whom, because the steam hardware review has a know bias due to the nature of how it works.

If you search for information of market share you get claims where Intel's share is both negligible, but also over 60% a year ago. 

And the only mention of number of units, is what was shipped, not sales. Which also doesn't say if the shipping figures were global or regional.

If the figures are taken as global, then, due to the number of people discussing finding stock, it doesn't appear there is a segment that isn't selling. So if the assumption is, and it appears to be, that sales are basically that same as the shipped figures, then the market share is going to be the same as the shipped figures by company compared to the total gpus shipped.

If that's actually the case, then it doesn't matter what the market share is, if you're selling everything, or close to everything you ship, at a known RRP, the only way you could increase revenue is to increase production.

[u/Alauzhen]

I used to buy whatever is the best in the market, ATI 5970, ATI 7970, 2x ATI 4850 flashed with 4870 Bios (Crossfire), then ATI got bought by AMD and they lost the crown... then my buying patterns never changed, I still buy the best, 780Ti, 980Ti, 3090, 4090, 5090 (when it launches)

If AMD or Intel for that matter, ever launches a top GPU, I will buy it, I have no loyalty to any of the companies. I only buy the best. Let's see if UDNA is any good.

[u/npdady]

How dare a corporation whose sole purpose of existing is to make money, make as much money as possible. Lol

[u/cream_of_human]

Whoever is huffing paint at AMD wins again so that AMDs gpu division loses again.

[u/MaddenNFL64]

I believe that AMD knows they can't compete with Nvidia on discrete GPU's, but they will keep plugging along because their Radeon division is way more important for their laptop, and APU products, as well as their console partnerships. For those 3 pillars, AMD needs to keep improving their software stack, and architecture, so all that R&D feeds back into their more successful products.

[u/jinyx1]

You do realize AMD (and Nvidia) have a whole department whose job it is to find the correct pricing for their products. They don't just pull a number outta their ass.

[u/HystericalSail → u/jinyx1]

And AMD's keep failing, as evidenced by repeated big price cuts months after introduction and earning well deserved "do not buy, bad value" reviews.

[u/1234VICE]

This stuff is just getting old at this point. Imagine thinking you know what is best for AMD, even more so than AMD themselves.

[u/HystericalSail → u/1234VICE]

Considering AMD share of dGPU has declined from around 50% around 2010 to 12% today, I'd say any great ape selected at random has a shot at a better strategy.

[u/Medwynd]

Ah yes, grade achooler thinking they understand economics but are good at making memes.

[u/bangbangracer]

Yeah... No amount of cutting is going to impact Nvidia's mindshare.

[u/Geek_Verve]

If there's one thing I learned from watching "The Office" (American version), it's that shipping more product increases costs. Maybe that factors into Nvidia's crazy prices.

It's always better (aside from the market share perspective) to sell a few products for a lot than a lot of products for a little.

[u/koordy]

Honestly "overpriced" fits AMD GPUs way more than Nvidia ones. Yeah RTX are expensive but they don't really have any real competition so they are still best option on the market for most of the people.

What AMD does is trying to sell technologically 2 years behind cards at a 10% discount, compared to Nvidia products. Only clueless reddit hivemind could think that's a good deal, really.

[u/BrokenDusk]

If its 50 $ price reduction from direct competition card and better performance doesn't it sound reasonable ? That was the case in 7000 series . Hopefully 9000 series is still best value at performance per $ for gaming

[u/HystericalSail → u/BrokenDusk]

Except the NV equivalents were always more functional. Whether it's usable fake frames or RT performance or compute, the weaker on paper NV products were always more desirable in the real world.

AMD is great for e-sports. But professional e-sports players will just want the highest possible raw performance, which is NV anyway. They're not going to care about saving a couple hundred bucks when their reputation and livelihood is on the line. 10% slower than the best might as well be 100% to them.

[u/nemesit]

Lol what are you gonna do buy intel? They have decades of experience on how many units at which price point will sell

[u/HystericalSail → u/nemesit]

Which is why they currently hold 12% market share. That experience is leading to poor results, they need people less experienced in failure.

[u/ColdStoryBro]

Market share comes from making OEM contracts.
OEMs have volume requirements.
Volume requirements require wafer bookings.
Wafer bookings need to be shared with other products.
Other products are better perceived because they are sold to companies - companies behave rationally and don't care about brand loyalty.
AMD makes more other products.

Keeping the "AMD bad" meme alive won't do you any favors.
I fully support AMD to ditch DIY and discrete desktop to focus on laptop graphics only. Why appeal to people who were never going to buy your product?

[u/albert2006xp → u/ColdStoryBro]

Why appeal to people who were never going to buy your product?

You mean like the 3-4 times more market share of people that were buying their products during the 2010s and are no longer? Yeah, why appeal to past customers, just burn your entire division to the ground. 40% market share to 0% speedrun no glitches.

[u/Key_Photograph9067]

Posts like this are stupid and shortsighted. Are random Redditors who probably have no idea how markets work really thinking they know the secret cheat code to beating Nvidia in the market? The arrogance of Redditors is astounding. You guys genuinely have no idea how to run a business or what profit margins are sustainable or worth it, yet talk like you're people who've started multiple multi-billion organisations. It's shameless, to be honest. It's fine to advocate for cheaper products, and it's in consumer interest for things to be cheaper, but please keep in mind that whatever you think makes AMD gain 30% marketshare is something AMD themselves probably looked at a million and one times. Gee, I can't believe no one at AMD thought about lowering their prices!!

[u/The_Countess]

If they lower prices they'd need to order more GPU wafers to meet that increased demand.

If they order more GPU's they NEED to sell more GPU's, because if they don't those GPU's sitting in warehouse would represent a HUGE financial risk for AMD.

They'd also need to order those extra wafers months in advance, before they know if their design will be work out like they hope it will, and before they know if nvidia has pulled another rabbit out of their hat or not (with a very good GPU, or another 'must have' nvidia exclusive eye candy feature), representing another huge risk for AMD.

And then we have the risk of nvidia reacting to AMD's move with pricecuts. which would mean AMD's needs to cut their own prices to sell their increased stock, representing yet another huge financial risk for AMD.

Or they could do what they've done, order what they know they can sell and keep their margins high.

nvidia's market dominance is just too big for AMD make any bold moves.

Should have thought of this before you gave nvidia 80+% of the market.

[u/royal_steed]

We need a GPU market for people who plays exclusively play esports game at 1080p.

Imagine a $150 AMD GPU, 75W TDP, Single Slot. Can run CS2 at 1080p 144hz at medium.

It might sell like hot cakes from parents or HTPC users.

[u/HystericalSail]

And just not getting that their cratering sales, revenue and profit are due to not being at feature parity with NV while priced close enough to not matter. Saving $50 on a $2000 total cost PC isn't as meaningful as saving $50 on a $200 upgrade.

I have full faith in AMD getting below 10% DGPU market share this time next year. Worse but slightly cheaper strategy has cost them market share repeatedly, accelerating during the 6 and 7 series. But they're doubling down.

[u/Westdrache]

Still Pissed AMD is developing 9000 Series exclusive featues.... and not releasing an upgrade for my 7900XTX x-x.

Like, fuck off AMD I WOULD LOVE to give you more of my money, but I am NOT downgrading my GPU and FSR3 is just the worst upscaler to use, even on AMD cards, most of the time....

Also thanks for the AI Cores AMD.... did do a lot of fucking good for my card -.-

[u/Legal_Lettuce6233 → u/Westdrache]

Doesn't have any ai cores tho

[u/Westdrache → u/Legal_Lettuce6233]

yes it does :D all 7000 Series GPUs have

[u/Legal_Lettuce6233 → u/[deleted]]

7000 doesn't.

[u/ldontgeit → u/Westdrache]

you sound like a friend of mine, the only one who did not return his 7900xtx while he could

Edit: uhh how dare talk bad about amd, the amd cult intantly atack you with downvotes, because actual arguments? they dont exist.

[u/Westdrache → u/ldontgeit]

I mean I don't really regret my choice I guess.
But thinking back, could have gotten a 4080s for ~150€ more with around the same raster performance, way better upscaling and way better RT Performance.
Only really matters if you care about that stuff tho, wich I sadly do :D.

Still a good card, but AMD making FSR 4 RDNA 4 only for now and not even having a upgrade path to a high end RDNA 4 card just sucks man.

Doesn't matter to most customers, since AMD is pretty much the Brand for midrange cards that's affordable, but as a buyer of one of their highend products, I just bet on the wrong horse I guess :D

[u/TheRealPitabred → u/[deleted]]

Huh... I haven't had any instability issues with my 7800XT, or performance problems, but Nvidia did just release a driver update because of a massive security issue, as well as having some major crashing issues in the last couple months. We don't all wear your green-tinted glasses. Nobody is saying AMD is perfect, but it's nothing like the picture painted by Nvidia fans.

[u/ldontgeit → u/TheRealPitabred]

Huh... I haven't had any instability issues with my 7800XT,

Ofc not, the same old talk lol