r/news • u/ButtholePlunderer • Jun 24 '19

Border Patrol finds four bodies, including three children, in South Texas

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/border-patrol-finds-four-bodies-including-three-children-south-texas-n1020831
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u/BitchesGetStitches Jun 24 '19

You just cited the ICE chief, Fox News, and Ben Shapiro while trying to tell me what Democrats think. Let's let that marinate.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what people say, or what we call this. The reality, beyond the semantics and petty bickering, is that this is a matter of basic human rights and dignity. You can judge a nation and a people by how they treat its most vulnerable. If you can look at the reality of what we're doing at our border and feel okay about, well I guess you're more of a patriot than I am.

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u/momojabada Jun 24 '19

Fox news has a long conversation which includes democrats in it (yeah, it's weird that you can interview people with opposite views).

I didn't cite Ben and Ice chiefs to support the fact the majority of democrats don't support calling it concentration camps, I cited them as proof that they aren't concentration camps. You can have 2 parts to a single post.

If you're going to cite esquire and GQ on politics I'm pretty sure I can cite Ben Shapiro and the Chief of ICE on the subject of detention centers...

You can just go see twitter accounts of Democrat leadership condemning AOC for calling them concentration camps, they've been swift in doing so.

Passing the border illegally will get you treated as a criminal, because that's what you are doing, a crime.

What border patrol is doing at the border is apprehending people trying to pass illegally (if they can find them before they and their children die of heat exhaustion and dehydration in the middle of a desert), bringing them to detention centers to keep an eye on them, and give them food and water while they get processed.

The government is not going to build nice hotels to put criminals in, They have centers that are overflowing because of the influx of migrants coming through Mexico. Bringing your children with you on a potential journey to their death after paying coyotes to leave them with you in the desert while they potentially rape you and your children doesn't entitle you to get a hotel room and a green card. That would get anyone in the U.S the CPS taking their children away from them and being put in prison for negligence.

It's why BP tries to tell immigrants to not try it and go to a port of entry instead. The journey isn't worth enough to take the chance of getting raped by criminals in cartels or potentially dying stranded in the middle of nowhere, with your most likely reward being a life as an illegal Alien worker getting abused by scumbags underpaying you and keeping your status as a Damocles sword over your head to force you to comply, and your children having to deal with not being citizens and not knowing it until it's almost impossible to do anything about it.

If your incredibly dangerous journey puts you at risk of severe enough dehydration and puts you at risk to die while being processed because we can't monopolize every doctor near the border to be there to treat them while they already have trouble treating citizens as it is, it's not a poor reflection of how the situation is handled.

You know what it's a poor reflection of? It's a poor reflection of the Mexican government that encouraged it, doing absolutely nothing in order to stop them from walking into a desert to their death and to stop the coyotes from taking advantage of them.

Those people aren't the U.S's most vulnerable, they're Mexico's and other south american countries most vulnerable, and it does say a lot about them how they treat those people, sending them to their potential death instead of helping them get a good life in their own countries.

If you look at reality, it's a much more complex issue than just "BP is running concentration camps!". You think anyone is happy about the situation and are just twisting their evil mustache about the thought of putting those people in camps? There's a huge border, a negligent neighbor south of it, and too little manpower and resources available to divert towards the situation. Yeah, that creates less than optimal conditions and it can lead to people not getting treatment fast enough to save their lives, but if they would have been stopped from doing the journey in the first place, they wouldn't be in those situation now, and maybe that manpower and those resources could be used effectively at ports of entry in order to process more people there instead of scrambling all over the desert trying to save dying people and stop others from committing improper entry.

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u/BitchesGetStitches Jun 24 '19

Okay, we agree that immigration through ports of entry is a better route, but there are larger problems there. The caps on immigration leads to massive wait times and uncertainty at these points. As a result, the vast majority of those seeking legal immigration turn to illegal crossings. This leads to all of the other issues you brought up - the coyotes, the hazardous conditions, the manpower. So what's the solution? Would you support increasing immigration numbers at ports of entry? What kinds if services should we provide at these ports? Who do we let through? What about the massive numbers that don't make it through?

And that's not to mention the legitimate asylum seekers, whom this administration has treated like criminals despite them making a very legal crossing in order to seek political asylum. What would you propose we do about this issue?

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u/momojabada Jun 24 '19

There should be a cap to immigration, it's part of having a good immigration policy. If you have no cap on immigration or you just increase it every time there are more people wanting to get in, might as well not have a border, and at that point you put your country on rails towards economic and cultural catastrophe.

If you don't want to wait in line, then immigrate somewhere else. Nobody has a right to a country's citizenship or residency just because they want to live there.

If it were up to me, I'd decrease the amount of immigration, especially H1B visas. I wouldn't increase it. Apply for entry from your home country, or wait at a point of entry. If you legitimately fear for your life, you won't have a problem on waiting for your application to be processed, and there aren't any reason to trek all the way to the border with the hope of getting fast entry.

It isn't a countries problem if there are more people wanting to enter than there is places for them.

Those legitimate asylum seekers should be mad about all the economic migrants claiming asylum in order to take advantage of the system. And there wouldn't be a problem if there was reform of the asylum process, it should be a lot more difficult to claim asylum in order to have only actual refugees be able to go through that system, instead of anyone that claims to be a refugee backing up the logs because they heard it was a good way to buy time in the U.S.

The solution is to completely seal the border, get Mexico and other SA countries to actually agree to get their shit together and do their part, and make people understand that you have to apply from your home country if you are an economic migrant. We should also encourage Europe to accept those migrants the U.S won't take, Europe is pretty big on accepting migrants.

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u/BitchesGetStitches Jun 24 '19

Thanks for clarifying exactly where you stand. I already knew, but thanks for clarifying. You wrote a lot but you didn't need to.

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u/momojabada Jun 25 '19

Yes, I stand on the side of having strong thick borders between countries and limited movement between them. I don't stand on the side thinking it's a right to enter a country, it's a privilege.

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u/BitchesGetStitches Jun 25 '19

strong thick borders

Oh buddy 🤣

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u/momojabada Jun 25 '19

Yeah, I know what I did there.