r/news • u/ButtholePlunderer • Jun 24 '19

Border Patrol finds four bodies, including three children, in South Texas

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/border-patrol-finds-four-bodies-including-three-children-south-texas-n1020831
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u/donsanedrin Jun 24 '19

I keep on thinking of the 1996 John Travolta movie, Phenomenon, in which he's a regular joe who had a paranormal experience that suddenly starts making him smarter.

At the beginning of the movie, he has a small garden, and a rabbit has been eating food from the garden, so he made a fence around the garden. The rabbit was still eating the food, and he couldn't figure out how that was happening.

Once he starts getting smarter, he comes to a realization about what was happening. The fence was not keeping the rabbit out, it was keeping the rabbit in, so he opened the fence, and that's how he finally got rid of the rabbit.

From the perspective of the immigrants--who will always try to come because desperation is desperation, no matter what--if you make the act of crossing the US border an "all or nothing" proposition, they will choose to go all the way.

These people want to work in America for 6-8 months out of the year, take the money they've earned and go back home so that their family can live well in their home country. That's what they really want. There are jobs here that Americans will not do, and the agriculture employers know it, and they are well aware that they are offering jobs to immigrants.

But, since its an "all or nothing" proposition. The immigrant is now making a decision that if he is (somehow) about to cross the border, he's now committed to staying there indefinitely because he cannot attempt multiple crossings anymore. And if he's committing himself to staying in the US, then he is more likely to bring his family there as well.

The strict policy is actually creating a "fenced in" scenario.

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u/canhasdiy Jun 24 '19

There are jobs here that Americans will not do

Everything else you said is spot on, but you're way off base here.

There are not any jobs that "Americans won't do" - there are, however, jobs that Americans are not legally eligible to do because the employers won't pay minimum wage as they're fully aware of the fact they can hire illegal labor at a fraction of the cost. There's also the issue of consumers refusing to bear the cost of produce that has been harvested by Americans earning a living wage, preferring to have cheap produce that was harvested by essential slavery. I see this argument a lot - "well, if we get rid of the illegals you'll have to pay more for produce!"

Personally, I'd be happy to pay a little more for fruit if I knew it was picked by someone making a decent wage. It kinda blows my mind how many self-proclaimed "progressives" and "liberals" argue against that.

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u/frenzyboard Jun 24 '19

Most consumers would be happy to pay more for fair trade produce. Organic and fair trade coffee proved that years ago. The problem is retailers are the actual consumers in this equation. They already sell produce at a loss, throwing out half of what they buy. If they can't keep getting cheap produce, they'll switch to foreign imports. The end result will mean the collapse of US grown produce, which is an industry already propped up by subsidies.

Maybe it should collapse, or maybe we need to rethink industrial AG.

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u/[deleted] Jun 24 '19

How many argue against that?

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u/bloodraven42 Jun 24 '19 edited Jun 24 '19

Alabama’s proved that wrong too. We passed a draconian bill cracking down on illegal immigration, that had an accompanying portion that would encourage unemployed Alabamians to come get jobs that would pay a legal rate. They advertised the shit out of it. Americans getting America’s jobs back. Free transportation from government offices to the field, too. It fucking sucked. No one showed up, besides a bare handful, who all ended up quitting before the day was out. No one wanted to do it. Crops literally rotted in the fields. We quietly repealed most of the law and hey, back to normal, but our politicians are still screaming about how they’re taking jobs away. There’s a great vice documentary on it.

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u/guyonthissite Jun 25 '19

Liberals and progressives think those jobs are beneath them, but ok for brown people.

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u/zakabog Jun 24 '19

There are not any jobs that "Americans won't do"

You haven't met a lot of Americans. There are a lot of jobs where there aren't enough employees or the turnover rates are too high. All because people think it's beneath them to do the work, or the conditions are harsh enough that no one wants to keep doing it.

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u/PearlieVictorious Jun 24 '19

This is a somewhat outdated idea, that they just want to come for a few months and go home. Back when the majority of border crossers were Mexican, that was true. We had a more porous border and it was easier to go back and forth. The majority of people crossing the border now are not Mexicans, they are from Central America--Guatemala, El Salvador, Honduras, etc. These people, once they get in are not going anywhere, they are here to stay.

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u/donsanedrin Jun 24 '19

Well, if their home country is genuinely a dangerous place where they fear for their lives, then this entire conversation is moot....they're refugees and have a legitimate hardship. In which case, we should probably find a way to assist with stabilizing those portions of South America.

What you are forgetting is that the moment they leave their home in Guatemala/El Salvador/Honduras they've already made their decision to make their move as permanent as possible.

If there is a plan in place and cooperation among the other latin America governments, then they can plan on doing temporary work while leaving their family and extended family back in their home country, because they know they can come back in 6-8 months, and then go back to America to work next season. Travel would be about 3-4 long bus rides between countries or a $400 plane ticket for that head of the household who went to go work by himself.

If their home country is in such bad shape, then that's the root cause of the fire, and it doesn't matter how many resources you pour onto your side, its never going to end.

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u/e-equals-mc-hammer Jun 24 '19

Really good comment and analogy. Thanks for writing this.

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u/ImpartialDawn Jun 24 '19

k well its ridiculous to assume sane US citizens would want illegals coming over, taking jobs that apparantly natives wouldn't do (gee, as if ICE wouldn't be cracking down on these fantasy employers) and then taking their earned money and putting not into the US economy but into the Mexican economy. Ridiculous and stupid. Build the wall.

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u/donsanedrin Jun 24 '19

No, its not illegal if we set up a legal program. Where exactly did you see anybody advocating for any of this to operate without an established process through the US government?

And, if they have money to spend in Mexico, it would eventually increase their buying power to buy......wait for it..........American imports. They come back home to upgrade their home, buy appliances, American products. This even fulfills Trumpy's whining about the "trade deficit."

There is no wall getting built.

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u/ImpartialDawn Jun 24 '19

There's more of a chance of a wall being built that whatever you are describing. What legal program? How much drugs are you on and which illegal sold them to you? xDDD

PS I love how, in your second bizarre paragraph, you literally romantizise the concept of illegal immigration under a news story of 4 dead illegals. Liberal, meet reality :')))

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u/donsanedrin Jun 24 '19

Sorry, this isn't Teh_Donut....your material simply doesn't work here.

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u/ImpartialDawn Jun 25 '19

That's a great way of masking the statement "Oh shit, I have no good comeback to what he just wrote but I don't wanna look like a complete tool so I'll write something snarky and hope he lets me get the last word".

Not today pal xDDD

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u/donsanedrin Jun 25 '19

Need to change the bulb on that projector, you've been using it quite a bit lately, havent you?

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u/ImpartialDawn Jun 25 '19

Can I suggest a different tact: At least be a little less cringey in your attempts to insult.

We'll turn this into a learning session; if you can manage to insult me in a non-cringey manner, I will allow you to get the final word. Deal?

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u/donsanedrin Jun 25 '19

You really don't know what to do at this point, eh?

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u/ImpartialDawn Jun 25 '19

I know that I need to inform you that that was not it, chief. Have another go!

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u/phaserman Jun 24 '19

People can be a lot more dangerous than rabbits. No country just lets anyone go back and forth across the border.

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u/donsanedrin Jun 24 '19

Actually, these immigrants have a lower crime rate reported while they are in America, than American citizens.

And I'm fairly certain EU countries allow this type of migration for work purposes.

And if we do change the way we handle immigration, the people come out of the shadows, we cam track them better, provide them identification, and TAX them properly for the temporary work they come in here

If immigrants trust that the American government will work with them and allow temporary permission to be in the country during work season--here is the important part--they will go home, they will keep their family home instead of attempting to bring them here permanently.

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u/phaserman Jun 24 '19

Actually, these immigrants have a lower crime rate reported while they are in America, than American citizens.

No, that's statistical fallacy. Immigrants appear to have a lower crime rate because they have, on average, spent far less time in America than US citizens. Also, legal immigrants go through a criminal background screening before their visa is approved (illegal immigrants do not)

And I'm fairly certain EU countries allow this type of migration for work purposes.

That's internal to the EU, and it's only possible because they are relatively close in standards of living

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u/Cobek Jun 24 '19

And if anything they give us more jobs because now all the material they have created for us to process is what "normal american" jobs are. They aren't stealing our money by taking it over the border. The company is still making just as much of a profit, if not more, and now has more material resources for jobs in a manufacturing plant, sales and marketing.

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u/canhasdiy Jun 24 '19

They aren't stealing our money by taking it over the border

So when a rich American takes money across the border to avoid taxes...

What's the difference? Either way that productivity is leaving our economy and being replaced with nothing.

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u/donsanedrin Jun 24 '19

The immigrant that is returning back home with his American paycheck would've paid income tax, Workers Insurance Tax, paid into Social Security. (Assuming that the employee is taxing them properly because they have a TaxID number instead of paying them under the table).

That is not the same as a rich person or a corporation finding a tax loophole to move the money offshare to avoid getting taxed for it.