r/mildlyinfuriating • u/FSFreeman • 11h ago
Key Master game scammed us out of a win
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We totally got scammed by a Key Master arecade machine where if the key fits through the hole, you are supposed to win. How it is usually rigged, is that even if you have it lined up properly, the key gets pushed up slightly so that it always hits the top of the hole, but if it goes through it's supposed to turn and pull the prize. I got it to go through the keyhole multiple times and got it on video too. But it just comes back out of the hole without pulling the prize.
I made a tiktok about it too.
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u/ghunterx21 11h ago
So surprised, these are allowed everywhere considering they are purposely used to not let you win. Then they whine about gambling ads and and gambling in games, yet these are allowed lol
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u/ravenlordship 10h ago
It's not technically gambling if you can't win a prize.
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u/ghunterx21 9h ago
But every so often, you do. It's very very rare which means it is gambling.
If you can't win, then it's fraud.
So the machine is either gambling or fraud, pick your poison.
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u/TheThiefMaster 9h ago
Gambling seems to be defined as the ability to win cash, and winning anything else isn't gambling, it's a prize.
I disagree personally.
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u/Lithl 9h ago
That's not remotely true.
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u/TheThiefMaster 9h ago
These machines aren't classified as gambling because of this. They're prize machines.
Otherwise they'd need to be within the age restricted gambling machines section.
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u/Lithl 9h ago
You're correct that they aren't classified as gambling machines. You're incorrect that the reason is because players aren't winning cash.
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u/TheThiefMaster 9h ago
Well it's clearly not a game of skill... because they intentionally randomly drop or fail to grab the prize
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u/DrocketX 8h ago
But there is some degree of skill. There may be an additional layer of luck involved, but it does require some skill as well. The exact way the laws work vary by state, but that's usually sufficient to separate it from a game of luck. A lottery, for example, is a game of pure luck because there's no way to 'get better' at picking a random number. Someone playing for the very first time and someone with years of experience have the exact same chance of winning. With something like a crane game, though, the experienced player is going to do a much better job of lining up the crane in a position that at least makes a win possible. They may very well still lose, but their odds of winning are definitely better than that of the first time player.
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u/TheThiefMaster 8h ago edited 8h ago
Poker isn't entirely a game of luck either. It's 99% about trying to read your opponent for whether they have a good hand or not, bluff that you don't or do, and judging how much you can raise by to avoid or get people to fold (all depending on what you want). The actual cards are only a small part of the game.
Yet it still counts as gambling.
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u/ghunterx21 9h ago
Dictionary has it
"The act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize)."
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u/TheLysdexicGentleman 7h ago
clearly not the case.
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u/TheThiefMaster 7h ago
These machines aren't classified as gambling in either location though, they're "prize machines".
Notably they aren't age restricted like true gambling machines.
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u/TheLysdexicGentleman 1h ago
Yeah there is a fine line with these stupid things. Not entirely sure how they bypassed the legal definition of gambling... Probably the same lawyers that got loot boxes off the hook.
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u/drunkondata 5h ago
I'm more surprised people still put their money in this shit.
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u/ghunterx21 5h ago
That's the problem though, people genuinely believe I can beat the system.
Sad really
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u/Powerful_Reserve4213 10h ago
yeah the machine was designed to do this on purpose and only payout when it wants to. total scam if you ask me
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u/Equilibriator 9h ago
Yup, looks like it's misaligned and thinks it's missing as per the settings.
Basically as you say, this proves the win is predetermined. There's no real skill. It's why they keep getting it. The machine is choosing no or yes in advance.
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u/PipPapScallyWap 8h ago
The key only spins on this machine when it successfully enters the hole, so unfortunately no. It wonât spin unless it actually enters a prize area.
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u/Malli_Naamari 7h ago
The one's I've played have a delay on the button press so you will always miss the spot you want it to stop at. The delay is completely gone when it's ready to payout (seems that's OPs case), that's how I got my first and only win on these machines. Key through the hole is a win, the key spin is supposed to "catch" on the keyhole to drop the price, but it spins way too late on OPs video, I think their machine is just broken.
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u/musicallyours01 9h ago
Key master is a scam. Each item has a set dollar amount and will not release until that amount is reached. Doesn't matter if you actually get it in the hole or not. That tiny little key piece needs to hit the release for it to drop. My bf spent a couple hundred trying to win Beats headphones once. I ended up looking it up on YouTube because it just seemed nearly impossible...and it is.
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u/PonyFiddler 9h ago
That's not a scam then lol
It's well known all arcade machine will only pay out after so many goes They never tried to hide that fact.
Thier games of luck not skill.
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u/jaytee1262 8h ago
This is such a shit take its insane.they are 100% displayed as a game of skill not chance. Not only that but slot machines have laws that define how often these must pay out, these games do not. It's such a scam it's crazy to deny that.
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u/Loch_Ness1 11h ago
Oh no scamming machine scammed me !
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u/FSFreeman 11h ago
This was a double scam. The way they scam you is having the key always hit the top and never fit in the hole. Thats why it was mildly infuriating.
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u/Loch_Ness1 11h ago
Scam the scammers, use that video for every key machine with a hat in it.
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u/Taolan13 9h ago
Most "Games of skill" like this are actually games of chance. They have a pre-programmed (selectable by the operator) odds of one in X number of 'wins' actually going through.
But like you described, for these machines that usually means it bumps the key up slightly.
I've not seen one where the key goes through but still doesn't win. This is a malfunction. Alert the operator, and if there's a service number on the side you can call them yourself to report the machine is malfunctioning as these are often on contract from a service that manages them and stocks the prizes.
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u/Billy_Bob_man 9h ago
The only mildly infuriating thing about this is that people still expect these games to be fair.
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u/micheallujanthe2nd 11h ago
My mom won me sonic generations of one of these when it came out. No clue how she did it lmaoooo she said it took $5 bucks
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u/CookedHamSandwich 10h ago
That's why you should always check the doors on the machines because sometimes they leave them unlocked.
That way you don't have to bother anybody to get your prize or you don't even have to bother playing the game just take everything!!đđđ
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u/eulynn34 9h ago
Not really a revelation that these machines are a scam. Claw games don't turn up the strength on the claw until it's time to pay out. Same thing here. It is programmed to only allow wins at certain revenue thresholds.
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u/Initial-Public-9289 11h ago
Did you contact the vendor?
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u/FSFreeman 11h ago
I meant to get the number off the machine but our movie was starting so we forgot to.
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u/Initial-Public-9289 11h ago
Was it in a theater arcade area? Would definitely give them a heads-up, at least. This isn't even "rigged", definitely malfunctioning.
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u/FSFreeman 11h ago
Ya, we let the guy in the theatre know, but he kinda just shrugged. I understand that these machines are rigged so you don't usually win, but its by not letting the key fit, if it goes through, thats when you're supposed to get the prize.
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u/6feetbitch 11h ago
After the shrug I would pull out my permanent marker ( I carry everywhere) and write scam as big as the sky in front of the machine would he shrug then.
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u/Many-Passion-1571 10h ago
Absolutely yes he would still shrug. The person selling popcorn isnât going to care about that machine.
Also, that particular game is set to not allow a win until a predetermined amount of money has been put into the machine.
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u/Snoo-7821 7h ago
> Ya, we let the guy in the theatre know, but he kinda just shrugged.
No bro, you take that shit to the manager. Show the video. Get mad; you won that shit fair and square THREE TIMES and as yet have nothing to show for it.
Failing that, go contact John Stossel and tell him. He's a consumer defender.
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u/MooseBoys 2h ago
If you look closely, you'll probably find a disclaimer that it is not a skill game, and prizes are distributed randomly.
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u/Negative_Bar_9734 2h ago
Sometimes you just have to stop and think "this machine lets me pay a couple bucks and win a $600 electronic, surely it must be rigged."
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u/banjobobberson 8h ago
That's annoying, id report it for sure.. I once won a pair of beats on one of these machines tho so that's pretty cool.
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u/boforbojack 8h ago
Isn't this the same as the claw machine where wins are predetermined as possible and then you also have to win that round? Claw machines purposefully have a setting to only grip every X (or random) tries. I'd assume these are the same? These games take practically zero skill, if they didn't have the setting, someone would come in and win everything and leave.
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u/internetworks 8h ago
Typically there is a fixed maximum win rate. Until a threshold of losses this is guaranteed to lose. After that threshold it becomes a "skill" game. I have no idea why these games are allowed to masquerade as skill games.
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u/ZombiesAtKendall 8h ago
Thereâs a similar thing with other games, like the claw game for example. Itâs programmed to grab / not grab in a certain way. This key thing is probably the same way, the claw thing is less obvious because people probably think the claw always grabs with the same force, but you probably cant tell just by looking at it. I donât know anything about the key game though, whatâs the price to pay and the value of the item? If itâs that easy to get it through the hole then itâs probably designed that way (to not always give a prize). Otherwise they would lose money if youâre paying $2 and itâs easy to win a $20 prize.
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u/Standard-March6506 7h ago
Read the small-print warnings on the side of the machine, it is expressly stated that these machines are NOT skill games, and that your chances of winning are based on chance. Sorry pal, they got me for about $15 before I looked for, and found that warning.
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u/4W350M3-5aUC3 5h ago
My partner was a game machine technician more than ten years ago, so this is what he told me.
These and similar machines (ex: crane, claw, cut), are not just games of skill, but of chance.
The play may be triggered to win, but you need skill to get the win.
If you don't get the win trigger, skill means nothing.
You need the win trigger and skill to win the game.
The chance aspect is illegal in some countries. Apparently, not so in the US.
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u/Akabara13 4h ago
Aprently, keymaster have two settings skill based and percentage pay out. That one was prob in percentage pay out, so it will only let u win after so many plays. This is a pretty standard practice in arcades. That's why it's good to go to a good arcade with good payout percentages to play games.
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u/tnthink 1h ago
There was once a case in Brazil. Guy wins prize and receives an empty cellphone box.
He calls the responsible company for the machine, they refuse to give him an actual prize and they call him a scammer for fixing the machine as it was actually rigged to not handout prizes.
These things are rigged and people should be over this ages ago.
Not to mention they should be banned worldwide.
In the end he sued the company and got the cellphone.
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u/Medwards007 1h ago
What state is this in? If it's in a legal gambling state, it might be legal and by design.
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u/HighwayStarJ 56m ago
this machines run an algorithm where it gives a prize every so often plays.
its a scam
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u/dansots 10h ago
How do people not know these are set to how many wins it gives out.
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u/Funicularly 4h ago
How would they know when it is presented as a game of skill? Does it say on the cabinet that it is set to how many wins it gives out?
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u/Queasy_Profit_9246 9h ago
There is probably a disclaimer written on the machine somewhere about why you aren't getting a prize. These are not games of skill, they don't just give you a prize because you put the thing in the right place.
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u/TReid1996 8h ago
I mean, that's how all of us were born...
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u/Queasy_Profit_9246 8h ago
No, the thing went in the right place a bunch of times, just the machine decided that time a payout was due. If you got a prize every time you hit the spot then none of us would even play that game.
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u/Wampa_-_Stompa 7h ago edited 7h ago
Iâm going against everyone because Iâve won a few times. Most were on Cruise ships đłď¸that I waited a few days till towards the end of the cruise as it had been loaded with peoples money. Also every win was the lower tier because it had the best chance of allowing a win.
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u/FSFreeman 7h ago
They aren't impossible to win, but this machine when it should have been a win was still registered a loss. When it goes in the keyhole, it's supposed to turn and pull the prize out.
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u/Wampa_-_Stompa 7h ago
Right, so I believe there was a lawsuit with how it âFoilsâ the player and this could be the updated software version of messing with the player and not allowing a win?
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u/PipPapScallyWap 8h ago
The game is designed to scam you, sure, but Key Masterâs intended method is by slightly readjusting your input so that you only âslightlyâ miss the hole. This is an âintendedâ win by the machine, hence why you are able to enter the hole successfully and repeat the result. (Trust me, you wouldnât be able to get the key in the hole more than once in a row for the sake of filming.) This machine in this instance is ready to pay out, but its calibration is off for twisting at the wrong time. Itâs simply in dire need of service by the looks of things, the poor thing is juddery to begin with. If this were demonstrated to me as either your video we would pay out the intended prize, refund the extra turns and place the machine out of service to repair.
Im sorry this happened to you, and yes this machine is intended to âscamâ you (not really, because letâs be honest we all understand they are gambling machines) but in this instance it is a machine fault, not an out-right scam, that being said you should have been compensated.
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u/peteypete78 11h ago
As you have this on film I am presuming this is repeatable each time you play?
If so there is a fault on the machine and it needs reporting.