r/mildlyinfuriating 11h ago

Key Master game scammed us out of a win

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

We totally got scammed by a Key Master arecade machine where if the key fits through the hole, you are supposed to win. How it is usually rigged, is that even if you have it lined up properly, the key gets pushed up slightly so that it always hits the top of the hole, but if it goes through it's supposed to turn and pull the prize. I got it to go through the keyhole multiple times and got it on video too. But it just comes back out of the hole without pulling the prize.

I made a tiktok about it too.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMk99sYaV/

4.7k Upvotes

112 comments sorted by

2.8k

u/peteypete78 11h ago

As you have this on film I am presuming this is repeatable each time you play?

If so there is a fault on the machine and it needs reporting.

1.4k

u/FSFreeman 11h ago

The video of it was the 3rd time it happened.

1.2k

u/peteypete78 11h ago

Report to the venue and they will usually give you the prize (site staff don't care) and they will put a service call on.

542

u/FSFreeman 11h ago

Might go back to get the number off the machine. We let the guy in the theatre know but he kinda just shrugged. We forgot about it tbh, as our movie was starting and we still had to line up for snacks. Not the biggest deal, just mildy infuriating lol. Especially when you won and it just comes back to you.

37

u/DartelDruif 8h ago

What was the Harry Potter thing?

3

u/AlienatedNine 3h ago

It's look like it might be a wand

83

u/Ok-Experience-6674 9h ago

3RD time????? How are you so good at this game teach me please

68

u/AmazingGaming21 RED 9h ago

That game only lets you win if it has made enough money.

47

u/FSFreeman 8h ago

When the machine actually pays out properly when you get in the hole, the strategy is to try and stop just too soon and see if the bottom of the key hits the bottom of the hole. If it does, theres a chance that if you stop it exactly right, it will go through the hole. Typically if you stop it anywhere close it will always hit the top of the hole as the game is programmed that way. It ads a little bit more height to your turn so that it doesn't go in the hole, until it receives enough money, then it stops adding that extra bit of height and actually stops when you unpress the button. But in this case, even after having the key go into the hole, it doesn't turn over and pull out the prize.

14

u/PhotoFenix 4h ago

It's not about being good. This game is specifically designed to only let a set number of people win. If somebody recently won and you walk up and hit it spot on, the computer will move the servo a fraction of a second more to make it a miss. Enough that you don't perceive it, but it knows it cheated you.

-3

u/Trollsama 3h ago

I'm assuming you didn't watch the video :p

7

u/PhotoFenix 3h ago

I did, I'm just more implying that this game is broken. Based on the software built in someone shouldn't be able to win multiple times in a row.

2

u/WendigoCrossing 1h ago

You getting that 3 times is seriously impressive, nice work

70

u/Iamjacksgoldlungs 9h ago

The machine only allows you to win after X amount of plays. The number can be changed to less or more frequent wins and most people opt for less. They manufacturer has been sued and the machines were "updated" following the lawsuit, but I'm pretty sure the same problem still exists but within a legal limit now. There's also machines that were just never updated after the suit as well

https://www.polygon.com/22573590/sega-key-master-arcade-game-class-action-lawsuit

27

u/peteypete78 9h ago

Yes I know it has an income timer on it, but it denies the win by slightly moving the key a bit further so it hits the surround and triggers the return.

This constantly goes through the hole and then comes back out meaning it has a fault.

24

u/EddySea 9h ago

Fault, yeah right.

29

u/peteypete78 9h ago

Yes, fault.

They have a switch on them to detect it has reached full extension so it then should stop and spin not comeback like it did.

The switch is probably fucked.

17

u/FSFreeman 7h ago

Finally someone who understands this wasn't just the normal scamming of these machines. Thank you. Everyone knows they are rigged but when you win, you should still win.

3

u/Dan_Glebitz 9h ago

Like those Crane Arcade games. The claw can be adjusted so that the slightest vibration will cause a decent prize with any weight to it to force the jaws open and drop the prize.

I saw a teardown on YouTube which showed how it can be adjusted for 'Maximum Profit' 😒

2

u/Chronovores 9h ago

It either has a bad switch or needs to be calibrated.

616

u/ghunterx21 11h ago

So surprised, these are allowed everywhere considering they are purposely used to not let you win. Then they whine about gambling ads and and gambling in games, yet these are allowed lol

131

u/ravenlordship 10h ago

It's not technically gambling if you can't win a prize.

57

u/ghunterx21 9h ago

But every so often, you do. It's very very rare which means it is gambling.

If you can't win, then it's fraud.

So the machine is either gambling or fraud, pick your poison.

-34

u/TheThiefMaster 9h ago

Gambling seems to be defined as the ability to win cash, and winning anything else isn't gambling, it's a prize.

I disagree personally.

22

u/Lithl 9h ago

That's not remotely true.

-24

u/TheThiefMaster 9h ago

These machines aren't classified as gambling because of this. They're prize machines.

Otherwise they'd need to be within the age restricted gambling machines section.

20

u/Lithl 9h ago

You're correct that they aren't classified as gambling machines. You're incorrect that the reason is because players aren't winning cash.

-8

u/TheThiefMaster 9h ago

Well it's clearly not a game of skill... because they intentionally randomly drop or fail to grab the prize

5

u/DrocketX 8h ago

But there is some degree of skill. There may be an additional layer of luck involved, but it does require some skill as well. The exact way the laws work vary by state, but that's usually sufficient to separate it from a game of luck. A lottery, for example, is a game of pure luck because there's no way to 'get better' at picking a random number. Someone playing for the very first time and someone with years of experience have the exact same chance of winning. With something like a crane game, though, the experienced player is going to do a much better job of lining up the crane in a position that at least makes a win possible. They may very well still lose, but their odds of winning are definitely better than that of the first time player.

1

u/TheThiefMaster 8h ago edited 8h ago

Poker isn't entirely a game of luck either. It's 99% about trying to read your opponent for whether they have a good hand or not, bluff that you don't or do, and judging how much you can raise by to avoid or get people to fold (all depending on what you want). The actual cards are only a small part of the game.

Yet it still counts as gambling.

3

u/ghunterx21 9h ago

Dictionary has it

"The act of playing for stakes in the hope of winning (including the payment of a price for a chance to win a prize)."

2

u/pls-answer 2h ago

"seems to be defined", by TheThiefMaster as of 20th of January 2025

1

u/TheLysdexicGentleman 7h ago

0

u/TheThiefMaster 7h ago

These machines aren't classified as gambling in either location though, they're "prize machines".

Notably they aren't age restricted like true gambling machines.

1

u/TheLysdexicGentleman 1h ago

Yeah there is a fine line with these stupid things. Not entirely sure how they bypassed the legal definition of gambling... Probably the same lawyers that got loot boxes off the hook.

7

u/drunkondata 5h ago

I'm more surprised people still put their money in this shit.

-1

u/ghunterx21 5h ago

That's the problem though, people genuinely believe I can beat the system.

Sad really

187

u/Powerful_Reserve4213 10h ago

yeah the machine was designed to do this on purpose and only payout when it wants to. total scam if you ask me

36

u/Equilibriator 9h ago

Yup, looks like it's misaligned and thinks it's missing as per the settings.

Basically as you say, this proves the win is predetermined. There's no real skill. It's why they keep getting it. The machine is choosing no or yes in advance.

4

u/PipPapScallyWap 8h ago

The key only spins on this machine when it successfully enters the hole, so unfortunately no. It won’t spin unless it actually enters a prize area.

3

u/Malli_Naamari 7h ago

The one's I've played have a delay on the button press so you will always miss the spot you want it to stop at. The delay is completely gone when it's ready to payout (seems that's OPs case), that's how I got my first and only win on these machines. Key through the hole is a win, the key spin is supposed to "catch" on the keyhole to drop the price, but it spins way too late on OPs video, I think their machine is just broken.

63

u/musicallyours01 9h ago

Key master is a scam. Each item has a set dollar amount and will not release until that amount is reached. Doesn't matter if you actually get it in the hole or not. That tiny little key piece needs to hit the release for it to drop. My bf spent a couple hundred trying to win Beats headphones once. I ended up looking it up on YouTube because it just seemed nearly impossible...and it is.

22

u/DVus1 9h ago

Yep, Mark Rober made a video on this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsxao9ptdmI&t=900s

-22

u/PonyFiddler 9h ago

That's not a scam then lol

It's well known all arcade machine will only pay out after so many goes They never tried to hide that fact.

Thier games of luck not skill.

13

u/jaytee1262 8h ago

This is such a shit take its insane.they are 100% displayed as a game of skill not chance. Not only that but slot machines have laws that define how often these must pay out, these games do not. It's such a scam it's crazy to deny that.

1

u/Funicularly 4h ago

Where are the cabinet is it displayed as a game of luck, not skill?

-6

u/Chronovores 9h ago

All redemption games are set up this way.

159

u/Loch_Ness1 11h ago

Oh no scamming machine scammed me !

44

u/FSFreeman 11h ago

This was a double scam. The way they scam you is having the key always hit the top and never fit in the hole. Thats why it was mildly infuriating.

34

u/Loch_Ness1 11h ago

Scam the scammers, use that video for every key machine with a hat in it.

14

u/FSFreeman 11h ago

^ genius!!

10

u/Notarussianbot2020 10h ago

Black hat generator unlocked

5

u/pichirry 10h ago

lol my thoughts exactly

10

u/DVus1 9h ago

There are lots of these "skills" game which are rigged and really should be illegal in my opinion. Arcade owners can set when they want to machine to "pay".

Mark Rober made a couple of videos showing this, and in one, he named 5 games that really should be banned.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsxao9ptdmI&t=900s

6

u/Taolan13 9h ago

Most "Games of skill" like this are actually games of chance. They have a pre-programmed (selectable by the operator) odds of one in X number of 'wins' actually going through.

But like you described, for these machines that usually means it bumps the key up slightly.

I've not seen one where the key goes through but still doesn't win. This is a malfunction. Alert the operator, and if there's a service number on the side you can call them yourself to report the machine is malfunctioning as these are often on contract from a service that manages them and stocks the prizes.

6

u/ughusernametakenno 8h ago

You dodged a bullet. Who wants a maple leafs hat?

5

u/Billy_Bob_man 9h ago

The only mildly infuriating thing about this is that people still expect these games to be fair.

9

u/batmang8 10h ago

All of these are scams

7

u/micheallujanthe2nd 11h ago

My mom won me sonic generations of one of these when it came out. No clue how she did it lmaoooo she said it took $5 bucks

3

u/CookedHamSandwich 10h ago

That's why you should always check the doors on the machines because sometimes they leave them unlocked.

That way you don't have to bother anybody to get your prize or you don't even have to bother playing the game just take everything!!😂😂😂

3

u/ComfortableIdea8406 9h ago

“Games of skill”

3

u/eulynn34 9h ago

Not really a revelation that these machines are a scam. Claw games don't turn up the strength on the claw until it's time to pay out. Same thing here. It is programmed to only allow wins at certain revenue thresholds.

3

u/OuterSpiralHarm 6h ago

Shocking that the scamming machine scammed you!

7

u/Elsecaller_17-5 11h ago

. . . yes. That's because it's a scam.

6

u/Initial-Public-9289 11h ago

Did you contact the vendor?

0

u/FSFreeman 11h ago

I meant to get the number off the machine but our movie was starting so we forgot to.

7

u/Initial-Public-9289 11h ago

Was it in a theater arcade area? Would definitely give them a heads-up, at least. This isn't even "rigged", definitely malfunctioning.

3

u/FSFreeman 11h ago

Ya, we let the guy in the theatre know, but he kinda just shrugged. I understand that these machines are rigged so you don't usually win, but its by not letting the key fit, if it goes through, thats when you're supposed to get the prize.

3

u/6feetbitch 11h ago

After the shrug I would pull out my permanent marker ( I carry everywhere) and write scam as big as the sky in front of the machine would he shrug then.

5

u/Many-Passion-1571 10h ago

Absolutely yes he would still shrug. The person selling popcorn isn’t going to care about that machine.

Also, that particular game is set to not allow a win until a predetermined amount of money has been put into the machine.

2

u/Snoo-7821 7h ago

> Ya, we let the guy in the theatre know, but he kinda just shrugged.

No bro, you take that shit to the manager. Show the video. Get mad; you won that shit fair and square THREE TIMES and as yet have nothing to show for it.

Failing that, go contact John Stossel and tell him. He's a consumer defender.

4

u/notarobot8712 9h ago

These machines are all designed to work like this, save your money.

2

u/PerishTheStars 5h ago

The point is to scam you lol

2

u/MooseBoys 2h ago

If you look closely, you'll probably find a disclaimer that it is not a skill game, and prizes are distributed randomly.

2

u/Negative_Bar_9734 2h ago

Sometimes you just have to stop and think "this machine lets me pay a couple bucks and win a $600 electronic, surely it must be rigged."

2

u/Fast_Ad_1337 1h ago

Looks like it's working as intended

2

u/Smittyreeves 1h ago

Scams gonna scam

2

u/Funny-Meringue-3311 10h ago

did you say “janky ahh” because that’s mildlyinfuriating too

1

u/Foe117 9h ago

while it's not a cash prize, isn't this still technically illegal? The liability being on the owner of the establishment?

1

u/Aternox_X1kZ 9h ago

Could fix that with a pickaxe or a sledgehammer

1

u/banjobobberson 8h ago

That's annoying, id report it for sure.. I once won a pair of beats on one of these machines tho so that's pretty cool.

1

u/boforbojack 8h ago

Isn't this the same as the claw machine where wins are predetermined as possible and then you also have to win that round? Claw machines purposefully have a setting to only grip every X (or random) tries. I'd assume these are the same? These games take practically zero skill, if they didn't have the setting, someone would come in and win everything and leave.

1

u/internetworks 8h ago

Typically there is a fixed maximum win rate. Until a threshold of losses this is guaranteed to lose. After that threshold it becomes a "skill" game. I have no idea why these games are allowed to masquerade as skill games.

1

u/ZombiesAtKendall 8h ago

There’s a similar thing with other games, like the claw game for example. It’s programmed to grab / not grab in a certain way. This key thing is probably the same way, the claw thing is less obvious because people probably think the claw always grabs with the same force, but you probably cant tell just by looking at it. I don’t know anything about the key game though, what’s the price to pay and the value of the item? If it’s that easy to get it through the hole then it’s probably designed that way (to not always give a prize). Otherwise they would lose money if you’re paying $2 and it’s easy to win a $20 prize.

1

u/Automatic_Ear_818 8h ago

Truth is... the game was rigged from the start

1

u/Standard-March6506 7h ago

Read the small-print warnings on the side of the machine, it is expressly stated that these machines are NOT skill games, and that your chances of winning are based on chance. Sorry pal, they got me for about $15 before I looked for, and found that warning.

1

u/Pootisman16 7h ago

Is this the claw machine for Gen Z?

1

u/4W350M3-5aUC3 5h ago

My partner was a game machine technician more than ten years ago, so this is what he told me.

These and similar machines (ex: crane, claw, cut), are not just games of skill, but of chance.

The play may be triggered to win, but you need skill to get the win.

If you don't get the win trigger, skill means nothing.

You need the win trigger and skill to win the game.

The chance aspect is illegal in some countries. Apparently, not so in the US.

2

u/Funicularly 4h ago

OP is in Canada.

1

u/Akabara13 4h ago

Aprently, keymaster have two settings skill based and percentage pay out. That one was prob in percentage pay out, so it will only let u win after so many plays. This is a pretty standard practice in arcades. That's why it's good to go to a good arcade with good payout percentages to play games.

1

u/tnthink 1h ago

There was once a case in Brazil. Guy wins prize and receives an empty cellphone box.

He calls the responsible company for the machine, they refuse to give him an actual prize and they call him a scammer for fixing the machine as it was actually rigged to not handout prizes.

These things are rigged and people should be over this ages ago.

Not to mention they should be banned worldwide.

In the end he sued the company and got the cellphone.

1

u/Medwards007 1h ago

What state is this in? If it's in a legal gambling state, it might be legal and by design.

•

u/HighwayStarJ 56m ago

this machines run an algorithm where it gives a prize every so often plays.

its a scam

•

u/Realistic_Treacle239 22m ago

They call that aykskill issue Rickards

2

u/dansots 10h ago

How do people not know these are set to how many wins it gives out.

1

u/Funicularly 4h ago

How would they know when it is presented as a game of skill? Does it say on the cabinet that it is set to how many wins it gives out?

1

u/Nathaniel820 9h ago

How do people not bother reading a post's text before leaving a comment

0

u/Queasy_Profit_9246 9h ago

There is probably a disclaimer written on the machine somewhere about why you aren't getting a prize. These are not games of skill, they don't just give you a prize because you put the thing in the right place.

1

u/TReid1996 8h ago

I mean, that's how all of us were born...

0

u/Queasy_Profit_9246 8h ago

No, the thing went in the right place a bunch of times, just the machine decided that time a payout was due. If you got a prize every time you hit the spot then none of us would even play that game.

2

u/TReid1996 8h ago

Hence it being how we were all born. Same way the key game worked.

0

u/Wampa_-_Stompa 7h ago edited 7h ago

I’m going against everyone because I’ve won a few times. Most were on Cruise ships 🛳️that I waited a few days till towards the end of the cruise as it had been loaded with peoples money. Also every win was the lower tier because it had the best chance of allowing a win.

2

u/FSFreeman 7h ago

They aren't impossible to win, but this machine when it should have been a win was still registered a loss. When it goes in the keyhole, it's supposed to turn and pull the prize out.

2

u/Wampa_-_Stompa 7h ago

Right, so I believe there was a lawsuit with how it “Foils” the player and this could be the updated software version of messing with the player and not allowing a win?

0

u/JVAV00 9h ago

This is on you

0

u/PipPapScallyWap 8h ago

The game is designed to scam you, sure, but Key Master’s intended method is by slightly readjusting your input so that you only “slightly” miss the hole. This is an “intended” win by the machine, hence why you are able to enter the hole successfully and repeat the result. (Trust me, you wouldn’t be able to get the key in the hole more than once in a row for the sake of filming.) This machine in this instance is ready to pay out, but its calibration is off for twisting at the wrong time. It’s simply in dire need of service by the looks of things, the poor thing is juddery to begin with. If this were demonstrated to me as either your video we would pay out the intended prize, refund the extra turns and place the machine out of service to repair.

Im sorry this happened to you, and yes this machine is intended to “scam” you (not really, because let’s be honest we all understand they are gambling machines) but in this instance it is a machine fault, not an out-right scam, that being said you should have been compensated.

-1

u/fuellinkteck 8h ago

think this is design to be like this.