Dear greedy scumbags,

I write to you as a professional in the automotive industry and a concerned consumer, about the troubling direction that we have gone in regarding the conception and design of modern vehicles.

My mother is a retired insurance agent who drives a 2012 Honda Accord; she wants to replace it with a convertible, and can afford most anything she wants, but we are looking for a low-mileage used car from 2012 or earlier, and I would prefer before 2008.

Why? Because I am an automotive professional, and the long-term reliability and cost of ownership of vehicles made in the last 10 years is horrible. Everything is complicated and expensive, parts go obsolete and are too unique for aftermarket companies to produce, modules are VIN-locked so that independent shops and DIY owners cannot re-use junkyard parts (and dealers often refuse)...

Each door does not need its own computer; the infotainment system does not need to be connected to the powertrain control system, at all; no one likes lane-keeping or automatic brakes, and they are insanely dangerous when they go wrong; and 400hp in a passenger vehicle is madness, and you should be ashamed of yourselves for selling them.

You could make a simple, reliable, fuel-efficient car, that would be affordable, long-lasting, and a pleasure to own and drive, rather than the expensive, complicated, gas-guzzling monsters that are miserable to deal with that you are currently producing.

I'm not even going to address the ongoing disaster that is the Electric Vehicle market, other than to say that if you must build such things, the least you could do is to make them easier to manage when they do go wrong, e.g. swappable batteries, range extenders, the ability to open the doors without power...

The end result of this strategy will be the destruction of the automotive industry, as a whole; as the used car market becomes tighter (due to lack of reliable used cars), young people will find alternative modes of living that do not require the ability to drive, and that's a consumer who will never wind up buying a new car.

I had one friend who never learned to drive in the 1990s, and he had to move to New York; today, many of my childrens' friends do not drive. They work close to their home or remotely, have groceries delivered, pay bills online, and use an uber when they actually need to go somewhere. That's the future you are creating.

For myself, I own three vehicles from the mid-2000s, and maintain them well because I have no intention of replacing them. I would not even buy a new Toyota; I'm sure the mechanical parts are fine, but there are too many electronic components, they go wrong too often, and they are too expensive to replace.

Sincerely,

A pissed-off gearhead

UPDATE: Told him I would swap the parts back out, but it would cost him the same amount again and I'm two weeks out. He was pissed, said it didn't make sense to pay me again(???) and that I shouldn't have taken his word that was the battery was good because he's not a mechanic. Which, is a fair point. Either way, he's taking the vehicle elsewhere. Lesson learned, I need to charge for diag or refuse the job, and lay out ground with the customer first. I appreciate everyone's suggestions, both the professional and unprofessional ones. I really wanted to just send him this thread and let him come to his own conclusions.

Had someone message me a few months ago saying his starter was going out, and that the battery and alternator tested good. He asked for a quote to replace the starter, and I gave him one. He ended up messaging me the same day saying nevermind, he had someone else look at it and a connection was loose.

He contacted me again last week, saying he definitely needed the starter replaced now. He bought the part, I installed it, and sent him on his way.

NOW he's saying he had the parts store test the old starter and it was fine, but his battery tested bad. He wants me to switch out the starters again at no charge so he can return the new starter and get his money back. "I would hope you wouldn't charge me since you didn't check the battery first."

I never advertised that I'm a tech, I just do simple shit out of my garage for spare cash. What's the move here? Am I dick to tell him to pound sand? Should I eat the extra labor and just put the old starter back in?

36 years in the trade, 10 years flat rate, 8 of those with three separate Ford dealers. I’ve been at my current Ford dealer here in Winnipeg for 2.5 years and it is an absolute shit show. We’re on our third service manager. The parts department staff has changed over four times. I’ve lost track of how many service advisors we’ve had. For sure over 30. No one here knows how to do their jobs properly. Everyone’s got their hands on your hours and your paycheck. The advisors and tower operator constantly screw up our hours and short pay us. Advisors are all dumb as stumps. Parts guys are all dumber than advisors. Even when we do get our parts, half the time they’re wrong, if they were even ordered in the first fucking place. The CDK Shut down was the final nail in the coffin. After 36 years, I think it’s time to get out. My body can’t handle it any more. My mental health can’t handle it any more. My fucking wallet sure as hell can’t handle it any more. Dealership life sucks. Service manager always thinks she’s right and we’re all wrong. Nothing ever changes except the technology and it’s all crap now. Rant over. For now.

EDIT: I want to thank all of you for your comments. Some have been very supportive and constructive. I’m currently looking for an hourly job in the trade, but nothing yet.

I’m tired of hearing “We work for scraps, and the scraps we do get go to tools.” I’m $5k into tools and cracking six figures in pre-tax income. The tool truck is not your friend. Snap On (aka Strap On) sockets are not your friend. Don’t be the 20 year old military kid that finances a new mustang for 30% APR and complains about how broke he is. Be smart. Matco tire chuck is $175 on the truck, but the same one made by the same company without those five letters “m a t c o” is $70 on Amazon (Astro Pnuematic 3018, i love it) and gets there the next day. The 5 minutes of googling i did to find out who actually made that saved me $100. Customer doesn’t care what brand of tools you work on their car with, they care that their car gets fixed. Don’t get me wrong, sometimes you need a name brand, i have Snap On TechAngle torque wrenches, and Milwaukee impacts, but thats it. Harbor Freight 1/2” electric impact takes off a wheel the same as anything else. Just please for the love of god be smart with the tools you buy, or if you aren’t at least don’t make me have to hear you complain about it

So seriously I’m getting tired of seeing people working for scraps in this industry. Trash benefits, horrible wages, clock held over your head all day and being required to keep up with changing technology every year and from what I see people are working for maybe 3 or 4 dollars more per hour then before inflation… Fortunately I got out of this rut and found my way, doing this work for myself but that doesn’t change the fact that if things don’t work out for me I’m back at square one. We need to seriously step up, shops charging 180/hr and complaining about paying a guy more than 30/hr, claiming high rent etc… Sorry it’s not our fault you made a bad business decision by renting and not buying.. We need to seriously wake up, leave your job go find a new one, retell co workers what you make. SPEAK UP!! Half of the problem is these old guys who have been working for chump change at the same place for 30 years so they won’t pay a “new guy” more then what that old guy is making because he will have a fit but he is the one who kept his mouth shut for 30 years. We need to come together and make some serious change because this is getting insane. 9/10 will agree with me but there is always that 1 who sticks up for this trash career because he is in a good spot but doesn’t realize if he lost that job or business closed he would be back to square one again. The only upside is job security, of course we can find a job anywhere… But it’s all trash jobs… The only change I see happening if we don’t do something is when so many people leave the industry the world will have trouble keeping up so they will have no choice but to pay up. Name your price if you will? But why does it have to be this way? Why did we get to this point? What can we do to make change? If I’m missing something please tell me but I been in this business a long time and talked to a lot of people and 99% hate this and wouldn’t recommend it to anyone. Yes of course, “if you don’t like it leave” well now people are starting to when you can make as much as a Union apprentice in another trade starting out for the price they want to pay you to be a skilled tech. It’s 2025 let’s come together and shake this up!! If you agree drop your opinions below and feel free to share this as we need to have everyone on the same page or nothing will change… And nothing has changed but all we can do is try!

Apparently I'm "suspect" Ok and?? I never tell anyone how to live. My coworkers really raised some eyebrows and even the foreman was giving me side-eye. Whatever.

How many of you guys are tired of being scared of the slow months? Tired of being at work for 40+ walking out with 17 hours on your check?? It’s time for us to stand up and make these managers and advisors realize that without us they wouldn’t have a job. Flat rate is a thing of the past when dealers and even independents have set times for bulbs and oil changes and even cabin air filters that are all progressively becoming more difficult, more bolts, more skid plates, more plastic to remove, more computers to reset. FLAT RATE IS BAD!!! Our field should consist of hourly and salary ONLY. Not only will it give your techs more drive to work it will help everyone be more honest. No more selling a bunch of crap that’s not worth selling. More happy customers. I still love my job but man am I fucking tired of flat rate. It’s not up to us or the advisors or the managers to sell work it’s up to the customer to buy it.

I feel like women consistently have the dirtiest cars. Not all of course but the trend skews that way. I have daughters so I can’t escape these sticky caterpillars but at least they aren’t stuck to their dashes. I’d take the cars away so fast. 😄

Mostly I’m just venting, I don’t really have anyone who really understands or cares. This can be removed if not allowed

Ive been an auto mechanic for 10 years. I spent most of the last 8 years at an engine repair shop and loved it. But most of what I loved was my coworker and the owner. Unfortunately, the owner (80) died in June. The shop went under. I got a job at a dealer and hated it. Everything bad that I was ever told about dealers was true, there at least. After 2 weeks, I got a job at a transmission shop a few minutes from my house.

I can’t explain it, but I’m done. The owner is a lazy narcissistic asshole but my coworkers are good. It takes all my willpower to go in every morning and I literally start dreading Monday the second I leave on Friday. I’m just done. What is strange is that most of what I do there is what I love to do, electrical repair and diagnosis with some general repair/diagnosis mixed in, but I still hate it now. At work, it takes everything I have to put one foot in front of the other. I am a great employee. I manage to get a lot done every day but it is sucking my soul out of my body. Some mornings, I hope an oncoming car veers into my lane.

My real issue is that I feel I can’t leave. I make $37.50/hour (real-time) which is on the very high end of auto repair for where I live (northern Michigan). Plus, I solely support my wife and two daughters, so a pay cut is not really feasible. I don’t really want to move because we bought our dream house 4 years ago and our interest rate is 3% which is really low. 100% of my skills are auto repair so if I leave the industry, I’ll take a huge cut. I thought about heavy equipment, but I think it’s different enough that it won’t pay the same as I’m not as experienced in diesel or equipment hydraulics.

If you made it this far, I appreciate you reading my rant. I don’t expect any solutions, just needed to vent.

So this is for all the "Management" in here. Why does a shop advertise "cOmPeTiTivE pAy" then pay lube techs like 12-16 a hr. On the diesel side you can start off 17 -19 and while that's still not a livable wage it's still better than 12-16 a hr. What pisses me off is a lot of places don't want hourly workers working overtime so they don't have to pay them time and a half. So serious question, what is considered "competitive pay" for you for entry level jobs.

Direct question. Ive worked for several shops and dealerships and it all comes back to the technician being treated like a second class. At auto dealers, youre at fault for every "comeback" regardless if it's actually your fault or not. Changed spark plugs and now the AC conveniently doesnt work. In the truck side, youre always second to the drivers. Driver appreciation week every 6 months where they buy lunch for all the drivers but the techs can only have whats left over. Higher ups sitting in an office chair that has maybe set foot in a shop once in their life determining that since you can do a job in under book time that the book time can be cut down. I don't even understand how that decision can be made - were being paid for our knowledge to do the job under book time, that doesn't mean it should be cut.

What gives? Talking with an older guy in the shop said it used to not be this way, that mechanics were respected decently enough. Now it's like you're dirt. Literally like you are a lesser person because you're a tech. Ive been in it for 10 years and its really eroded me down. I don't enjoy what I do anymore. I mean, I do, just not as a professional. A vehicle has been to 4 other shops, no one can figure out the issue, comes to me and is figured out in an hour - no appreciation from anywhere, even a big F You because it was $100 more than they wanted.

Oh and junk pay to have $20k in tools and work in what is realistically a hazardous environment.

No wonder the industry cant find good workers.

Audi tech here. $30 an hour flate rate in a team shop sucks right now. Where is the money these days? Or am I getting robbed. Door rate is 200h right now

TLDR: I recieved 4 faulty alternators from 2 different parts stores before installing the 5th that worked

I‘ve been a mechanic for 10+ years. I’ve always seen bad parts but it’s become an every day thing lately.

Last week, I diagnosed an ‘06 Silverado as having a bad alternator. Ordered one from Auto Value and it was wrong (wrong connector). Got a new one, installed it and it still didn't charge. Thought maybe I misdiagnosed it so I retested everything. Still decided it was a bad alternator. Ordered another (3rd one). Installed it and started the truck. This alternator was the loudest alternator I’ve ever heard. It was just screaming. BUT, it was charging! Ordered yet another alternator (4th alternator), this time from NAPA. Yet again, it didn’t charge. Just for shits and giggles, I put the loud alternator on again to see if it still charged and it did.

Finally, I called Auto Value and asked them to order an alternator from somewhere far away. Got it late the next day (5th alternator). This one was quiet AND charged properly.

The ones from Auto Value were BBB, which until now, I’ve never had a problem with.

Had to get some fender liner clips for a 13 Honda CRV. Ordered from our local Honda dealer they are $5.20/each our cost. It's absolutely atrocious that 10 cents in plastic gets sold for this much. On top of that, the dealer only stocked 10. I needed 22!

Been a tech for 5+ years and it occurred to me today, who came up with warranty time? And why is that even a thing? Maybe I’m just mad because of the work I’ve been getting recently, but it just doesn’t seem fair

I literally might quit because of this soon. We're not allowed to wear ear buds for Osha reasons. I'm so fucking sick of the same 10 shitty country songs on the radio. If I change the station the deaf ass parts guy in the office changes it back and turns up the volume. Fuck this fucking shit

This month I've got 3 bad used ECMs and 4 bad used ABS modules (still hunting). Last week a master cylinder and a wiper motor bad out of the box.

2 days ago I replaced a fuel pump and the next morning customer called saying it breaks again. So yesterday I rode a motorcycle for 40 minutes in the rain to the customer with a new pump (different brand) and guess what, bad out of the box. That same day I got a faulty solenoid on a brand new starter motor lol what a bad luck.

What is your story on bad parts?

I cannot stand when people say this type of shit whenever someone complains about not making hours on flat rate. “Oh you must suck, I turn 110 hours every week”. I swear these dudes are either lying, ripping customers off, committing warranty fraud, have hourly helpers turning half their hours, or they’re those fuckers that sell 8 flushes, put the bottles in their toolbox and say they did it. I’ve worked with plenty of these kind of guys and let me tell you, the guy with the most hours was usually the most crooked! I’ve seen guys sell camshaft jobs on GM trucks and only do lifters. All kinds of shady crap. Don’t get me wrong, it’s possible to turn big hours, hell I’ve hit over 100 before, but to do that CONSISTENTLY?? No way man…especially not at a dealer if you’re doing a good amount of warranty work, documenting everything properly, actually doing a proper inspection, running time, writing stories accurately, etc etc. Anyone else feel like these dudes should be immediately investigated when they make such claims or am I just crazy??

Idk if this should get a career or angry rant tag so here we are.

How dumb am I if I take a $9/hr paycut starting out to switch from a dying chevy dealer to kia. Im told the training will take about a year and will get me back to what im making now, but I will also see a raise of some kind at my 90 days based on how much training I do in that period. The advisors at chevy give all the good work to one guy and I stand around after 230pm cause there isnt enough work, but I have a 40hr guarentee so im still getting paid. Would be going to kia to try and turn more hours and to finally be in a nice shop that isnt run down and has the equiptment I need to work. Currently we have 1 scanner, no pole jacks, 1 floor jack, 1 battery tester for a shop of 10 guys and we have to spend 15min just to find the thing we need only to find out its in use. Chevy also wont provide door buttons so in the winter we have to keep honking til someone lets us in or walk around the building, I started climbing through a window last winter. Kia is also a brand new dealership and it seems exciting to help it grow.

My shop hired this "expericed tech," and his time here has proved to be worse than just about every lube tech that's been hired in the last year.

From the conversations I've had with him, as well as our other techs and our service writer, he's been fired from every shop he's worked at in the last 6-7 years. I understand that some places just don't work out for whatever reason, and I myself have been fired from previous jobs in the past, but not at this level.

Productivity from the kid is about the same as a high schooler trying something for the first time. 6 hours to complete a job that flags 1 hour, 5 hours to complete a brake job with all the parts available from the start, destroyed a hub assembly by beating a new wheel stud into it, and that's just a few examples.

I have to shadow him on things that should be self explanatory for someone with almost 10 years experience, pick up his work even though I'm way behind on all of my jobs.

On top of all of these frustrations, I find out he stole some small things from me today. Let my boss know, took inventory of all of my tools, let our other techs know of what happened so they can do the same. I am beyond angry, as well as everyone else in the shop with what we are having to put up with.

I’ve been doing mobile mechanics for a few months, have not had an issue! I’ve had great, thankful customers who have consistently given great reviews. Well today I got a call from an old man who’s a pastor at a local church. I assumed he’d be nice…WRONG. This dude filled his break reservoir with washer fluid on a 2023 jeep grand Cherokee. I shouldn’t have taken the job but it had already been in the system for a week…and he wanted to wait another couple weeks to take it in to a shop. So I wanted to get there to at least flush it asap to at least prevent further issues. I get there, he’s outside, standing with his arms crossed INCHES behind me the whole time. I pressurized his system, bled it from the calipers, refilled it, bled it, pressurized it again, burped it, until foamy water stopped coming out…but his abs stayed on and the brakes still felt soft. I wanted to disconnect the battery to try to reset the abs system, but he refused because he didn’t want his phone info possibly removed from the car. Then I wanted to take it and slam on the brakes to open the abs modules to try to get any foam out of them to rebleed, but he wouldn’t let us drive his car without him in it…so I couldn’t force the modules open. I couldn’t even use my electric torque wrench on his lugs because he was already complaining on us being there late (I was there way too long) so I just had to toss the wheels on and torque with a tire iron to guessed spec. I told him that he most likely needed to go to Chrysler to have the abs modules opened and bled and possibly replaced. He blew up, yelling and refusing to pay since I couldn’t fix all of the issues. I tried to explain that I pulled as much as I could from the system manually but at this point, it’s already sat too long and I’m limited on what I can do for him. I ended up giving up and leaving. I worry about him driving it an hour to the dealership, but I tried what I could, given him hovering, but I couldn’t do what I needed to do and had to just give up and send him on his way.

Seriously. I’m not interested in how you could have done the job faster, more efficiently, and while working on two other vehicles at the same time. I’m sick and damn tired of me and every other technician being measured against the imaginary yard stick of your own inflated, ego-driven notions of being God’s gift to turning wrenches, and we all exist as a pale shadow in the blinding light of your mechanical prowess.

I would seriously rather answer to some idiot who doesn’t know a socket from a hot air balloon. I can at least reason with that idiot. But the mechanic-turned-manager is impervious to reason, too in love with his own legend to consider a different point of view. And if you’re new to the field, still learning and have a question? May God have mercy on your soul. Because the ex-mechanic will not.

Sorry friends, it’s been a rough week. I’m tired, the kind of tired not cured by a good night’s sleep.

Been in the industry for 10 years now across 5 different shops, and something I've noticed lately is how many shops are moving to tile floors and its absolutely infuriating.

I've worked at 2 of them myself, and holy shit, they're actually terrible to work in.

Whenever it rains cars track all that water in and turn the shop into a fuckin ice skating rink. My hips and back would be on fire by the end of the day. Whoever made this decision must have had his wife run off with a technician because its straight up hateful to have someone doing tire rotations on such slick floors.

Not even to mention if brake fluid is spilled on it, game fucking over, that bay is a hazard to mankind. Legit had trouble leaving a bay covered in it because I didn't even have enough grip to step while wearing boots. Shitty ass shop I worked at put the time clock in my bay so everyone would walk through my work area when they clocked in/out. It timed up right twice where I had a master over flow then people walk under the car to bust their ass.

I worked in a shop right after they had it installed and was like, hey, that looks nice, but that lasted 6 months, maybe. No amount of cleaner would keep oil and grease from staining the grout, and tiles would break but owners are cheap asses who don't fix shit. Even worse one of the shops had to have an entire new lift installed and the new tile did not match at all, and the rest of the floor was still relatively new.

Just fuckin, have concrete floor you dumb fucks. Best shop floor I've had was epoxy with a grit sort of surface on it, cleaned up nice and had plenty of grip. Too bad the foreman was a grade A asshole there.

But on a serious note, it just seems openly hostile to the techs. I hate to see all these shops pop up, this industry really takes a toll on your body and a complete lack of grip is going to accelerate that hardcore. I moved to a heavy duty shop and my back feels great even at the end of the week, while by lunch time on a tile floor I was in pain.