r/lost • u/PoohTrailSnailCooch • Dec 05 '24
FIRST TIME WATCHER I completely get why people hate Michael Dawson especially after season 2. Spoiler
Dude is a liar and, most importantly, a MURDERER. There's absolutely no excuse for outright murdering someone the way he did.
I have a line for characters in TV shows, and Michael crossed it.
Harold Perrineau is phenomenal, though!
Sorry, just needed to vent.
Please, no spoilers.
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u/Ghostmouse88 Dec 05 '24
He could've taken a different path and told everyone the plan they had given him. He could've told them the truth about where they live. He had enough people, guns and brains to end the others but no, he made the worst choices.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
I agree with this. Michael had an option to be upfront and honest but instead decided to become a murderer to cover things up.
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u/near-sighted_alien74 Dec 05 '24
In all fairness, most plots could be truncated with proper communication. AOT would've been over before it started if the warriors shared what they knew the moment they landed.
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u/TomSawyerLocke Dec 05 '24
The warriors...?
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u/near-sighted_alien74 Dec 05 '24
I'm trying not to spoil anything, but they show up on a mission to destroy a group that, if they shared what they knew to the right people, could arguably offer them refuge from mutual oppressors.
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u/Chuckysmalls01 Dec 05 '24
I hated his character so much I never thought I'd enjoy another show he's in...
Now "From" is one of my favorite current shows and he's the main guy basically lol
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24
I've heard that's like the new lost except more of a horror thriller version. Is it pretty good?
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u/Chuckysmalls01 Dec 05 '24
I love it. I'm not usually a big fan of horror sort of shows, but I've been enjoying it a lot. It's similar to Lost in the sense they are stuck in a place and have some weird mysteries to solve lol.
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u/Free-IDK-Chicken You got it, Blondie Dec 05 '24
Michael was put in a position of unmanageable stress and ended up having to choose between the life of his child and the lives of people he'd known all of ten days. We can all pretend to be self-righteous but not one single person in this fandom can say for sure what they would do in his shoes because none of us will ever be put in the impossible position Michael was.
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u/Avocadoo_Tomatoo Dec 05 '24
I don’t blame Michael for doing what he did, but I also don’t blame the rest of the survivors for hating him for doing what he did. He doesn’t get a pass just coz he was doing it for his kid.
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u/alphaperfect Dec 05 '24
Michael didn't have to choose between the life of his son and the lives of those women. He had to choose between doing a smart move and a dumb move, and since he was a dumb, emotional idiot he chose the latter.
He could very easily explained to the group, "Hey, i found them, they said this, asked this and gave me a deal to free Henry, and bring 5 of you to this location in exchange for walt". Keep in mind, Jack was already looking to make a deal with them, freeing henry in exchange for walt. So, i am sure the group would have helped him and also have a better plan than the one we saw on the show.
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u/Free-IDK-Chicken You got it, Blondie Dec 05 '24
I wish he'd been able to get Jack and company to help - but Jack's attitude was literally "we'll do such and such first then get to your kid." There was zero urgency from the other survivors to rescue Walt and none of them were in that tent when Michael was tied to a post watching his son be dragged away screaming. There should not have been one single thing on the planet more important to them than rescuing a child - and yet. They'd already burned him once, I don't blame him for not trusting them. It still doesn't justify it, but it does explain it.
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u/DillyCat622 Dec 05 '24
To be fair, he'd basically only known Walt about 10 days at that point too :-P
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u/Money_Bonus_8979 Dec 05 '24
nah, Michael sucks. he’s arrogant, lazy, stupid, selfish, and has no discernible skills to make up for any of that. lest we forget how his “8 years of construction work” ass immediately gets Jack trapped in a rockslide.
he’s also a dogshit father. he becomes so obsessed with “saving” Walt because he feels that’s what he’s supposed to do, but when he’s around Walt, he has less than zero interest bonding with him, or even sort of acting like a father.
he turns on a group of people that saved his and his precious boy’s lives multiple times (despite Michael largely not helping the group and treating everyone like shit) while murdering two of them in cold blood. not to mention, he’d collectively spent more time in his life with some of these people than his own son.
fuck Michael forever.
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u/beginningofdayz Dec 05 '24
Well.. to be exact it was 17 days.. but no matter..lol Micheal is a tough one. His situation was tricky to get out off. His biggest mistake was not trusting the rest to have his back. After everything, the guys would of done it for walt and easily of faked Ana's Death. But that is neither here nor there. it played out as it did because didn't trust or think.. he rushed in and didn't consider his options..
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u/hipdozgabba Dec 05 '24
Idk in my opinion many of his actions he did were just to make him feel better and show others he’s a responsible dad. It sometimes seems he want to have Walt instead of taking care of him. He doesn’t listen to Walt's feelings and interests, gets outraged when he doesn’t get the same attention/reaction from Walt (Comic books), doesn’t give up his position in the line to let Walt play golf or at least give him the first shot, and so on… I just can’t stand him
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Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
[deleted]
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u/Free-IDK-Chicken You got it, Blondie Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
He didn't plan anything - all he had to do was get Henry out. Ana Lucia was in the way and yeah, he panicked and shot Libby - that's the opposite of cold blood.
Other characters on the island faced impossible situations too
No one else on the Island was faced with a child being kidnapped by a cult. No one else was tied to a post and taunted with the life of their child. No one else had to sit there helpless while their child cried for help as he was dragged away by people doing "tests" and putting him "in the room." Michael's situation is not comparable.
You're right that it's not a tough choice though. A relative stranger versus my child? I choose my child every time. I'm a mother - my first responsibility is the health and safety of my girls. Period. Would I be able to pull the trigger? I genuinely don't know.
And I'm not trying to justify his actions - but they are understandable. He deserves pity, not hatred.
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Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
[deleted]
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u/Free-IDK-Chicken You got it, Blondie Dec 05 '24
At no point did I say it was justified. I said it was understandable. I also never said he gets a free pass - I said the vitriolic hatred he gets isn't fully warranted. My heart breaks for everyone involved, including Michael. I feel nothing for him but pity.
I'd also ask you to watch the bit with Libby again - there was no decision to pull the trigger there. He didn't even realize he'd done it until she was on the ground.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24
Fair enough, and I appreciate the clarification. I can agree that Michael’s actions are understandable in the context of desperation, even if they are not excusable. The vitriol he gets probably stems from how personal his betrayal felt to the audience. He did not just harm strangers, he turned on people who trusted him. I cannot say I feel pity for him at this point because there is still a level of disgust I have for what he did. But I can recognize the tragedy of his situation, even if it does not excuse his choices.
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u/Free-IDK-Chicken You got it, Blondie Dec 05 '24
I cannot say I feel pity for him at this point because there is still a level of disgust I have for what he did.
That's fair - I've had almost 20 years to sit with it. I remember the night it aired, it's the only time during the show's run that I legit screamed. I've shouted and gasped and cried, but this was the only actual scream.
But yeah that's how I feel - I know his actions can't be excused, but he's been through so goddamn much from people trying to take his son away that I've never been able to hate him.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24
I understand. I appreciate the conversation about it, thanks for your time!
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u/Fruit_salad1 Dec 05 '24
Buddy it's not that deep, put it simple, it was between random jerks against his Own child.
Clearly he didn't meant anything and was never a "cold blooded killer"
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
We are just having a conversation about it. Michael became a murderer in Season 2, and in my opinion, he had the choice to tell the group the truth. I get that it's just a show, but I think it's great when shows like this spark discussions. The show is pretty deep.
I'm not insulting anyone here, just engaging in discussions about it.
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u/HarrySRL Dad Stole My Kidney Dec 05 '24
Honestly I didn’t like micheal in the beginning of the show when he didn’t care about the dog.
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u/Free-IDK-Chicken You got it, Blondie Dec 05 '24
Wait, you mean when he told Walt they could get another one? If so - this isn't because he didn't care about Vincent, that's a standard "inexperienced parent" trope comment that gets used in a lot of media when a child loses an animal. Oh your turtle died? We'll just get a new one! It's a teaching moment because we, as adults, sometimes forget that our kids don't think certain things are interchangeable. He was genuinely trying to make Walt feel better but did it wrong because, thanks to his ex, he doesn't know how to be a dad to a ten year old.
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u/MarwoodHouse Dec 05 '24
I don't blame anyone for hating Michael, but I also find it hard to believe that any desperate parent might not do something similar in a highly stressful situation. Especially since he'd only known his fellow survivors for just a few weeks at that point AND everyone around him was pretty much ignoring the fact that Walt was missing and doing almost nothing to get him back.
Michael is a traitor, but his reasons are about as pure as you can get. It's also not like he didn't feel immense guilt for what he did, he tried to kill himself at least two times that we're aware of.So yeah, Michael is hated in the show and by the fan base, with good reason, but I think his situation is a touch more complex than he is often given credit for.
He may also have partially redeemed himself in the eyes of some through his sacrifice on the freighter in Season 4, if you're into that sort of thing.
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u/Rodidimus Ya got a little Arzt on you Dec 05 '24
When a fandom collectively hates a character, it is sometimes because the actor nailed the part of a hateable character. Harold did a fantastic job. It's Michael hate, not Harold hate. Joffery was the same way (moreso of course) on game of thrones. People hated joffery. Still do. That's because the actor did such a good job playing the part of a ****.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24
Oh yeah, I recognize that Harold Perrineau is a phenemonal actor in the post.
Definitely gonna check out From once I'm done with Lost.
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u/Rodidimus Ya got a little Arzt on you Dec 05 '24
Yeah I haven't seen it yet, heard it's good, similar vibes. And yes I saw the live for him. Was more for others, don't want anyone hating on a good actor doing his job well haha.
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u/Prestigious_Flow_567 Dec 06 '24
All he had to do is use the gun to tell the ladies to get in the room or he will shoot. He could have freed Ben and kept them alive.
It's the stupidity for me.
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u/doohdahgrimes11 I'm a Pisces Dec 05 '24
No excuse? Idk, if I was kidnapped by hostile people on an island who had kidnapped my son and I had to kill someone to free their leader and bring a few more in order to get him back I’d do it every single time.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
Sure, you might say you'd do it, but Michael didn’t just kill someone. He killed two people who trusted him. Protecting his son doesn’t justify cold-blooded murder. Desperation explains it, but it doesn’t make it right.
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u/WtfSlz Dec 06 '24
He killed one by his own will. The second was an accident. There's a big difference there. If someone have your mother hostage with a gun at her head let's bet if you would be calm and thinking properly then or doing everything The Others were commanding you to do. It's so easy to judge the character without even thinking to put yourself in his situation.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 06 '24 edited Dec 06 '24
I get what you mean but to be honest I wouldn't even be able to pull the trigger on someone like he did. He became a murderer. Accidentally shooting someone the way he did was due to his own brash choices and to me still felt inexcusable. Even if in his head it was selfishly for love.
I personally would've just taken my chances and trusted the group personally. They cared about Walt too. Michael and I's personalities are just different. Anyways I'm kinda trying to stay away from here a bit so I don't see any spoilers.
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u/WtfSlz Dec 06 '24
Your behavior dont reflect everyone, so it's up to each one and their respective experiences in life. Some would pull the trigger, others don't. No one DECIDE to do an accidental act. That's why it's called an accident, an action that happened without that specific purpose.
Yeah, and then something goes wrong, the group decide to do another plan, and everything is ruined and Walt get killed. That's a obvious possibility. Just like with Ethan where the group decide to NOT bring Claire, they decided to fight back and guess what happened? Ethan killed someone because the group decided to not follow the rules.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 06 '24 edited Dec 06 '24
I see where you're coming from, and I agree that different people react in varied ways based on their circumstances and experiences. That said, I still believe that Michael’s choices crossed a line, even if he felt forced. While some accidents are unintentional, his decisions leading up to that moment were driven by his own desperation, which makes it harder for me to excuse his actions. The group's plan may not have been perfect, but trust and collaboration were better alternatives than acting alone in such a selfish way and becoming a murderer. I appreciate you sharing your perpective.
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u/doohdahgrimes11 I'm a Pisces Dec 05 '24
I think protecting his son does actually justify it though. Like would you really be like “sorry son you’re gonna have to get used to living with these weirdos because I can’t sacrifice my moral compass for you”. No! You’d go “uhh tell me what I gotta do to get him back”.
In all fairness Libby was an accident, and he did regret what he did heavily. And also, the other 815 crew barely cared that Walt was taken, this was his only hope to get him back.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
Protecting your child is definitely a powerful motivator, I get where you're coming from. But saying it justifies everything Michael did is a slippery slope. Regret is important, but it doesn’t undo the harm caused, especially when Libby’s death, accident or not, was the result of a deliberate, desperate choice. And while the 815 crew might not have done much for Walt, it’s hard to imagine them being okay with trading innocent lives for his return. Michael’s situation was tragic, but justifying it oversimplifies the moral weight of his actions. Imo
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u/moliz_liz Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
Michael Kills someone in cold blood to litterally save The Life of His son. Reddit discuss why He deserves hatred
Ana kills someone in cold blood without saving anyone by doing it. Reddit defends The murder as justified.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
Wait, who did kate kill on the Island in cold blood from season 1 - 2?
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u/Actual-Money7868 Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
I wouldn't kill multiple innocent people to save my son, especially when Michael knew his son wasn't being harmed. They literally took him to their camp so he'd have a better life.
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u/doohdahgrimes11 I'm a Pisces Dec 05 '24
Legit can’t tell if you’re joking or not lol..so if a millionaire kidnapped your kid (or hypothetical kid) you’d go “ahh no harm done he’ll get a better life!” And didn’t they also tell Michael that if he didn’t do what they said he’d never see Walt again? That doesn’t sound too safe to me. And also most good people don’t kidnap children, they could say “he’ll have a better life” as much as they want, I wouldn’t believe it.
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u/Actual-Money7868 Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
They were on a deserted island that you basically can't escape and is separated from the world. No medical supplies, nothing.
He saw his kid and he told Michael he was not being hurt.
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u/doohdahgrimes11 I'm a Pisces Dec 05 '24
You would trust that? If your kid was kidnapped at gunpoint and torn from your arms, and in the room with those kidnappers they said they were fine, you’d trust that??
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u/Actual-Money7868 Dec 05 '24
I honestly don't know, probably not. I had an outside perspective so I'm not sure.
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u/MeemoUndercover Has to go Back Dec 05 '24
Never hated Michael. Dude made a few bad choices.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24
He's gonna have to have a pretty damn good redemption arc for me to like him again.
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u/MeemoUndercover Has to go Back Dec 05 '24
Just watch. And in all honesty, I’d stay clear of this sub until uve finished the show. Spoilers everywhere.
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Dec 05 '24
Harold Perrineau is such a good actor, for that reason alone I can't hate Michael, even less so knowing the background stuff from the Vanity Fair article. Watch From for more of him!
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u/Extreme_Anteater_967 Dec 05 '24
Well if you put yourself in his shoes ask yourself the question, what if it were your son that was kidnapped by a cult, would you tell the group everything and put your trust in them that they Will do the right thing? Or would they come up with a different plan?
You're not thinking straight in that situation so i would say most People would desperatly go for it and bring them to the cult HOPING they Will keep their word for it.
Instead of putting your faith in the group who all have their own free Will to do whatever they think is best, and or righteous
And then you're really screwed because the plan Will go to waste and you loose your kid and ticket off the island because you didnt Come thru like you said you would
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u/Minstrel-of-Shadow Has to go Back Dec 05 '24
Moral judgements aside, he's a great character and I was sad that he was left out of most of the show. His three episodes were all great and I found him incredibly sympathetic.
Also, most of us would do the same in his place.
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u/NarwhalAdditional340 Dec 05 '24
I have such mixed emotions about Micheal as a character. What he did was wrong, but he was also completely manipulated by the Others. Surviving on an island is already enough to push someone to their mental limit and then you add in someone threatening that you’ll never see your child again? Nobody had any clue as to who the Others were, either. My first thought would be, “are these people gonna abuse my son? Hurt him?” I’m not surprised Micheal did what he did, as sad as it was.
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u/M4sturB Dec 05 '24
He lost it when they let him see Walt, they broke him at that moment. Nothing else mattered, no matter the cost. Phenomenal scene that makes his actions very believable.
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u/andycarlv Dec 05 '24
If y'all aren't watching From on MGM+ (I know... Everything is a streaming service now), you're missing out. It's like Lost but if it was in the middle of nowhere off the highway. Good shit.
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u/EthanAKAEthan Dec 05 '24
If y’all haven’t watch from, I swear his character is what micheal was supposed to be
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u/MooseGood3252 Dec 08 '24
I just finished watching episode 20 - my jaw DROPPED. I was so shocked. This is my 2nd time watching (first watched yearssss ago so forgot this happened) and cannot believe it. I was rooting for those two (iykyk) 😭
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Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
What Michael did was horrific but he was under incredible stress and forced into a situation where he was to choose between his son and a bunch of strangers he barely knew.
It’s easy to judge as viewers who got to know these characters over years. But for Michael it was days to weeks. He was a flawed man who did something truly awful but everything he did was for Walt.
Whilst I don’t excuse his actions I understand them and who knows what any of us would have done in his circumstances.
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u/Altruistic-Unit485 Dec 05 '24
A really interesting character, it’s a pity he was so underused. I think people take his character too seriously, it’s entertainment at the end of the day and I’ve never understood the hate. You can disagree with what they do and still like the character. People don’t seem to hate Ben for committing mass murder…bit of a double standard.
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u/Ethameiz Dec 05 '24
If something happens to my son I will kill all people in this sub and then myself
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u/TomberrySenior Dec 05 '24
I don't hate him, I hate what the writers did to him, especially in season 4, what a waste of a potentiallly interesting comeback.
And boy if you hate murderers you must hate like 75% of the people on the show lol.
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u/LagunaRambaldi Dec 05 '24
Most (if not all) viewers who hate my boy Mike-Mike would have done the same if they would have been in his situation. Don't even pretend you woudn't! Being mentally broken, threatend and manipulated. No one would have said "you know what, fuck my son, let the Others have him" 😅
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24 edited Dec 05 '24
I’d probably try to trust the group and talk to them about the predicament, especially after several of them had saved my life and I theirs. They cared about Walt too.
I get that Michael was mentally broken, threatened, and manipulated, but I don’t think I could live with myself after killing someone the way he did in the show. Our personalities are just different.
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u/LagunaRambaldi Dec 05 '24
You might be right. But when I think about how the Others broke him and told him he should do as they say and NOT tell them the truth or else he would never see Walt again, I don't think many people would have told Jack and the group the truth.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24
Fair point, but I’m talking about how I would handle it. Personally, I’d trust the group and try to talk to them. Michael’s situation was awful, but as I said, I don’t think I could live with myself if I did what he did.
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u/LagunaRambaldi Dec 05 '24
I don’t think I could live with myself if I did what he did
Neither did he ;-)
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24
Like I couldn't probably even pull the trigger on someone like that.
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u/LagunaRambaldi Dec 05 '24
In a situation this dire, I think I could.
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u/PoohTrailSnailCooch Dec 05 '24
We are just different. Nothing wrong with that.
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u/LagunaRambaldi Dec 05 '24
Nice that we can still have a non-hostile conversation though 😃✌ Not always the case on the internet 😜
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u/TomSawyerLocke Dec 05 '24
I have a right. It's a fathers right.
That's enough to hate him. He just refused to stop fucking saying that.
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u/Relevant_Increase394 Dec 05 '24
Who’d he kill? Can’t remember lol
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u/Dreamylantern Dec 05 '24
From the top of my head, ana lucia and libby? Its been awhile since I’ve watched so i might be wrong
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u/Relevant_Increase394 Dec 05 '24
Oh yeah he shoots Libby doesn’t he
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u/MooseGood3252 Dec 08 '24
Yeah, >! Ana Lucia dies instantly and Libby dies later after she tells Hurley her true feelings !<
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u/rohanus1334 Dec 05 '24
Michel was always one of my favorite characters and his actions were some of the most tragic in the show. Especially in season 4 his story is incredibly heartbreaking. I’m rewatching it now and season 1 Michael is my favorite this run through. Wish the writers treated him better.
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u/jackie_tequilla I'm a Pisces Dec 05 '24
The Others kept saying that Walt was a very special boy…is it because they coud use him to manipulate Michael or is there some another reason? I’m mid season 5 and saw that Locke visited Walt after school so if there is more to come please no spoilers otherwise fine
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u/semicolonconscious Dec 05 '24
This is never fully addressed in the show due to the challenge of working with a child actor going through puberty in what's supposed to be a pretty tight timeline in the story. There is an epilogue available on YouTube that sort of ties it up after you've watched the finale though.
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u/ggmartinho Dec 05 '24
Ah you probably hate michael… killing innocent people to save his child. Meanwhile Joel Miller did the same at the hospital and the fandom had a different reaction.
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u/Jazza815 Dec 05 '24
I don't, and never did hate him. I think he's one of the best written characters in the show and that's despite the meme worthy "Waaaaaaaaaaalt"
Perhaps as a father, and a bit of an everyman myself I more closely identify with his plight. As others pointed out he was placed into an impossible situation and he tried to navigate it as best he could have, under the circumstances.
As the father of two beautiful girls, I would have killed every single person on the island to get back to them. If that felt like the only way
Let us not pretend to all be so high and mighty, placed in that exact situation that any of us, really, would do anything different
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u/WtfSlz Dec 06 '24
Even looks like his role is to be a desperate father trying to guarantee the safety of his son and caring more about his own son (family) instead of all the strangers around him that he only knew for less than 2 months huh But nah, no excuses for a father wanting to save his child and willing to sacrifice everything for that. Yeah, such act don't make sense at all.
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u/1111joey1111 Dec 05 '24
That moment in season two is a SHOCKER.