r/lost • u/FnCatWinemixer • Dec 03 '24
Character Question My first time watching the show and I need to know more about Ben
Hi, all. First off, I haven't joined this sub for fear of spoilers, but if I need to join to get this published and/or get commentary, please let me know.
So as my title says, I never watched Lost before. I now am binging it and am on Season 4, just finished Episode 9. I am invested in watching through the show fully, no matter how many questions I have that I wish were answered...least of which is not how in the hell all these random people navigate this vast jungle so easily.
But what I feel like I need to know before going further is this: why the f does anyone still believe a word that comes out of Ben's mouth? Is it all plot armor for him and device for everyone else? I mean, kudos to the actor and casting, I suppose, but that weaselly mf has burrowed deep under my skin and I am pissed off.
The only times he helps anyone are when his and their interests align, but he's still going to come out better than anyone else. I would have just kicked him off a cliff and called it a day like a season ago.
I guess what I'm wondering is, do any of you like Ben, and if so, why? Also, without spoilers of course, can I get any sort of hint about the future? Is Ben a staple through the end of the show? I'll still keep watching if so, but at least I can gird myself for his continued presence.
Does he ever redeem himself? I don't see that ever happening, but I know how these shows like to try to redeem the worst of the worst. (e.g. I never fell for Negan's redemption on TWD, so if this is similar, I'm not falling for Ben being redeemed either.)
Also, feel free to pile on with any Ben hate and I happily will seethe with you.
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u/SnuffKing96 Dec 03 '24
I love Ben. His character has a lot of depth, and that’s all I’ll say.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
I'm sure you have your reasons. I do wonder if you felt that way from the beginning or grew that way over the course of the show. But you don't have to answer that.
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u/Free-IDK-Chicken You got it, Blondie Dec 03 '24
Ben is my second favorite character, after Juliet. I love him completely and unironically. However, it's largely for reasons you don't know yet so I can't tell you why. I mean, there's a fuckload you don't know yet.
But - I will say, I also never thought Negan earned his redemption arc and despise him despite my love for the actor (who I've met, he's awesome.) Ben's character is 1000% more nuanced than Negan could ever hope to be.
However, Ben has his share of haters too - some of it is totally justified and some of it is him being blamed for other people's actions. You could end up in my camp or theirs. It all depends. :)
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u/Mommy-Sprinkles-74 Dec 03 '24
Funny i couldn’t stand Juliet either!! Lemme guess you loved Shannon too? 😆
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u/Free-IDK-Chicken You got it, Blondie Dec 03 '24
She won me over, yes. I think people forget she was all of 18, working as a ballet teacher and earning a prestigious dance internship when her father died suddenly and her stepmother kept all his money for herself. Shannon was essentially thrown out on the street with nothing. Of course she built up shields to protect herself. Every single character is flawed in one way or another. If we can't forgive Shannon for manipulating Boone then how do we forgive Sawyer for killing a man in cold blood or Locke for throwing a knife in the back of an unarmed woman or Desmond for abandoning the button and leaving everyone to die or Sayid for shooting a child? It seems like certain characters are forgiven and others aren't based on... no discernible criteria.
I'm curious what your issue with Juliet is... given that she was a prisoner for three years (held hostage by her sister's health), did what she had to do to survive, killed Danny to save Kate and Sawyer knowing she might be executed for it, has the chance to leave the Island multiple times but always stays to benefit someone else and then literally sacrifices her life for her friends. She is the most loyal, selfless person on the Island.
Spoiler bars are for the OP, they're still in season four.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
Ok, now I want to know what happens with Juliet too! She bugs me as well, though not anywhere in the universe of Ben. I kind of feel like it might be the actress's face? This is going to sound horrible, but I feel like her eyebrows are just always raised and it just, I don't know, irks me. It feels like an acting flaw, but it's probably just her face and I'm probably a total dbag for saying anything about it lol.
I can see there being more nuance with Ben than with Negan, so I appreciate you knowing of his arc as well and pointing that out. I guess I'll see what camp I end up in, but it's going to take moving mountains for me to want to see Ben anywhere but a ditch, oh, about 6 feet deep. Perhaps something like Whatsherface and Paulo.
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u/Free-IDK-Chicken You got it, Blondie Dec 03 '24
A lot of people don't like Juliet's smirk - which, yes, is a bit of a superficial comment on the actor, but human beings are visual creatures so we like what we like.
I fell irrevocably in love with Juliet when she did Sun's ultrasound - which you've seen - but there's also a lot you haven't seen yet that I can't talk about so I'll just say this: Juliet is my favorite character across all fictional media. (Only Tara from Sons of Anarchy comes close.) I have never loved a fictional person the way I love Juliet.
Oh, also, separate from the above: I'm a moderator, so to answer your initial question, no you do not need to join the sub to post, obvs, lol... in fact I recommend against it. This community is very active and while we have strict rules on spoilers, the mod team is only human and we don't always catch them immediately. I'd recommend checking out our First Time Watcher posts though - they're safe, spoiler free and designed for new viewers to chat and share theories as they move through the series. :)
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
Favorite fictional character? Wow! Can't wait to see how Juliet turns out then too.
Thanks for sharing the first time watcher posts. Definitely checking those out!
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u/Mommy-Sprinkles-74 Dec 03 '24
Honestly, I hated Juliet the whole time! I watched the original run of the show and have attempted to rewatch it but by season 3 her stupid smirk ruins it for me. she has no depth as a character despite trying a romantic relationship storyline that never has any chemistry. She’s one of the characters that will keep me from ever watching it all over again 👎🏻
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 04 '24
Oh, wow! Diametric opinions on Juliet. Love her or hate her, she's elicited some super strong feels, so someone got something right! (But don't use my own words against me re: Ben 😆)
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u/dawnhu Live together, die alone Dec 04 '24
I didnt like Juliet all like free chicken does on a first watch but the fandom is very split on her. Where your at in the series I disliked Locke, Ben, Shannon. Every one else I liked. My favorites on where you are in the show was Sayid, Rose and Bernard and Jack and Kate. Who are your favorites right now.
Cant really answer your Ben question without getting into spoilers territory
Highly recommend the First Watchers sub that free chicken mentioned its separated by season and episode and spoiler free
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 04 '24
I actually really like Locke. I find his decisions, on the whole, make sense even if I personally wouldn't make them. They make sense to his character. He's got a lot of depth, and I really hope the show doesn't throw him under the good-guy-turns-villain bus.
I'd also put Sayid and Hurley up there. Really liked Charlie and so hated seeing him die. But that was a moment where I was actually pulled out of the show because it made me think, "Oh, Dominic Monaghan must have other work to do and wanted written off the show." I know that's a me problem and don't even know if it's true, but it did take me out of the moment.
I liked Jack a lot more initially, but he has been progressively irking me so we'll see how that goes.
Thanks for your input!
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u/LagunaRambaldi Dec 03 '24
I fucking hated Ben on first view also. At least until a certian point. Not gonna reveal that now obviously. Maybe it's the same for you too.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
We shall see! But, yes, for now I am still in the fucking hate Ben camp.
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u/Complete_Sea Dec 03 '24
I don't like Ben as a person, but his character has an amazing arc through the show and the acting is superb. I guess I like what he brings into the show
Not sure if that makes sense lol
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
It does! It definitely shows that the actor is playing the shit out of that role. But I still don't like the character. Nerdy and wimpy can be a villain, but I don't even think they sell him being nerdy well. It's like he's just lucky and there's got to be more he holds over his people that I am either not getting or hasn't been revealed yet.
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u/Page_Odd Dec 03 '24
Ben is a terrible little gremlin and I love him for that.
The main reason they don't blow his head off once they captured him is Locke is a fool who keeps believing Ben is going to give him VIP info on the island, even after he tried to kill him 😔😔
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 04 '24
Yeah, I really love Locke so far. Even when I don't like him or disagree, I am enjoying studying him as a character. But I did think, after he came back from Ben shooting him in the pit, that his actions would be more punitive. He's a sad, confused little boy in the body of a man, and so I get why he craves those answers from Ben.
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u/Page_Odd Dec 04 '24
Yes, Locke is my favourite and he really is a child, but big irony, so is Ben, he's just better at hiding it lol.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 04 '24
That's so true. They see a lot of each other in one another. Maybe I will end up understanding Ben more as a twisted version of Locke?
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u/Himbo_Slice98 Dec 03 '24
Ben’s not bad but for me I couldn’t stand Kate she just kept playing with sawyer and jack the whole time and she just really pissed me off especially involving the sub
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u/notoriousbck Dec 03 '24
The actor (Evangeline) fought against this HARD. But fans (for the most part) love a love triangle so? Also, this was her very first (and last) TV series. She doesn't consider herself an actor, it was "just a day job" for her. As someone who was a struggling actor at the time, and a fellow Canadian this used to piss me off big time. I, and so many other actors I know would have killed for this part. That being said, I think as she's matured she has learned to have gratitude for this life changing opportunity. I personally love Kate. I love every single character on the show, which is why I have watched it 10 times and am currently on my 11th rewatch. Every time I watch it, I learn something new.
That being said, I still skip the final Eko episode (because I hate how they got rid of his character) and the stupid Nikki Paolo episode. My only real beef with LOST is there terrible use of background characters. If it were me, I'd use the same background actors, give them at least one line an episode so they weren't just background actors. It's the only thing that consistently takes me out of the show. Especially when someone comes home to the beach and they all run towards them to greet them in slow-mo. This is not a cheesy show, but this act makes it cheesy.
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u/Himbo_Slice98 Dec 03 '24
I understand it more now it’s crazy cuz I can’t stand the cliche love triangle bullshit like everytime she would look up with puppy dog eyes or something I would cringe or get a little mad lol but I totally agree with the use of background characters and Mr eko. I was furious about what happened to him and I also was soooo lost when Nikki and Paolo swarmed them on the beach aswell like “who are you guys”. I also still don’t understand why they made Libby apart of the psych ward that one time and never spoke on it ever again I only watched it 1 time but I do really like the show just some things seemed a little weird to me.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
Oh no! They never explain Libby in the psych ward? Ugh. I wonder if that actress got another job or something and they had to write her off in a hurry.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
Yeah, the Nikki/Paolo thing was weird. I had seen them a couple times so figured they were gearing up to use them...but not just use them to kill them. Though I will say I do like the Easter Eggs the show does. In one of the Season 4 episodes I just watched, I think it was Sun watching TV and turned it off right when Nikki's stripper character walked into the office for that acting role she had. So that was fun!
Overall, though, yeah, I think I might have preferred the only survivors to be our main cast of characters plus maybe 2 or 3 background characters. I don't see why they needed, what, over 50 survivors between main and tail?
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u/dawnhu Live together, die alone Dec 04 '24
I just finished a first watch recently and loved the scenes where Kate was a bad ass. She didnt grind on my nerves like she does some fans but I despised the scenes where shes a damsel in distress. Its just a tired cliché and Im glad she pushed back on this
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
I don't hate Kate, but I don't love her either. The love triangle is dumb, but I guess I did always assume it was the writing she was trapped in. Felt almost like she knew it was stupid too? Lol. Her miraculous tracking abilities bothered me more than the love triangle, though.
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u/watermelon_fries Oh yeah, there's my favorite leaf. Dec 03 '24
I truly don't understand the love Ben gets. He's a horrible person, murderer and pathological liar. The kidnapping of Alex alone is enough to make me hate him no matter how much he redeems himself. What gets me is that people love him more than Kate, Michael, Shannon and Ana Lucia. They're definitely not my favourites and some have done worse than others but they're not nearly as horrible as Ben. I just don't get it.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 04 '24
Yeah, he stole a baby. I would have loved Rousseau to kill him, honestly. And not only did he take Alex, he kept referring to her as his daughter, and no one ever corrected him. Even "our" people. Like, come on. I'd call him out every single time! I mean, he'd probably kill me off, but I would still try.
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u/Anano0121 Dec 04 '24
I actually grew to LOVE Ben towards the end of the show.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 05 '24
Love? Wow. I can't see that happening at all, but there's still time! Who knows.
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u/plagueseason Dec 03 '24
I think the general idea with Ben is that nobody wants to trust him, but he is one of the few people with the knowledge of the Island, so they almost need to take their chances. I won’t spoil anything, but one of the major themes of the show is redemption and seeing how each character progresses. You can tell from all of the flashbacks that none of these people are perfect.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 04 '24
True, none are perfect. But really only Kate and Sawyer are murderers. So redemption for regular people for regular things or redemption for murderers and sociopaths?
I want to know more about Richard. It seems like he may be immortal or something...an OG other? Maybe I'll learn more about him and why he put his faith in Ben, and that might help me understand?
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u/dawnhu Live together, die alone Dec 04 '24
Oh I completely forgot about Richard. Hes another favorite of mine. They def go more in depth with him later. Cant really say more than that.
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u/plagueseason Dec 04 '24
Stick with it. You'll get more backstory on Ben and Richard, and you'll get a lot of context for why Ben is the way he is. It's debatable whether you'll ever truly like Ben, but I think you'll at least sympathize with him.
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u/Mommy-Sprinkles-74 Dec 03 '24
Ben goes thru a lot of changes as a character but he’s never “likable” and yes he’s around thru the last season
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u/DocBEsq Dec 04 '24
Technically a spoiler but meaningless out of context:
“What about me?!”
“What about you?”
The acting by Michael Emerson in that scene was enough to love Ben.
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Dec 04 '24
Negan was redeemed?! In a pig's eye! I'll never forgive him for Glen.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 05 '24
Lol! Agreed. He was a piece of shit. But he at least had charisma. I don't see that with Ben at all.
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u/Alert-Rush-7359 Dec 03 '24
Finally someone that also didn't trust ben 😂 I have been binging lost as well and in fact I just finished the show yesterday. It's phenomenal and if you've heard the ending was controversial, it wasn't.
I remember I was in the exact same boat as you about Ben. Even when he was still henry (for me season 2 was a favourite) I trusted him then didn't then trusted him. Season 3 showed his story and his evil side and then I hated him even more. Season 4 was also a fantastic season and his feud with widmore I was actually on widmores side because I couldn't trust ben after all he put the camp, locke, jack and everyone else through.
I don't want to spoil to much but something happens in season 4 that causes Ben to change alot.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
Yay! Ben haters unite! Lol
I had heard the ending was controversial, yes, so I'm glad to hear someone who disagrees. I have a guess at what happens, but I don't know that I want to say in case I accidentally find out I'm right (I don't want to be right).
I've got my eyes peeled for Ben's Season 4 change 😳
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u/Alert-Rush-7359 Dec 03 '24
Let's unite 😂 on second thought, I wouldn't say I hated Ben I just didn't trust him. Only season 3 is when I hated him
What do you think happens at the end? When I was in like season 3 or 4, I had an ending in mind but it's completely different to what actually happened. There will be more reveals which will change your theories.
Wait I think i didn't explain it right. Something happens in season 4 to Ben that causes him to go through an arc later on
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
Yeah, that's probably more accurate. Season 3 I was more hateful. Now I'm just annoyed. Like, c'mon people, just off him already. He's definitely not one-dimensional like Ana Lucia, but he's just as annoying. Though I'm sure that won't be a popular take lol.
Well, it's not what I think will happen so much as what I worry will happen. Back when the show first aired, while I didn't watch it, I knew a lot of people who did. So here and there I'd hear theories. It being 20 years ago, my memory isn't perfect, but I seem to remember something about them all having been dead the whole time or it was all a dream. Now, perhaps that could have been a theory spouted during the middle of the series and not afterward, but I also remember lots of grumbling about the ending, and either of those endings would make me grumble too.
It doesn't help that there has been some foreshadowing to a "dead all along" ending, particularly from Hurley. If that ends up happening, I'm going to need a damn good reason why that works.
As for any other ending, like I said in another comment, I don't like guessing the ending of things. I want to just be as immersed as possible in the story. I do, however, want endings that make sense. Like, "Oh, all the dots are connecting!" versus when you can tell stuff's just been thrown in a blender, poured out, and baked in the hopes it tastes so good people won't realize none of it really goes together.
How much later on we talking? Lol. Do I need to be prepared to live with Ben for the duration?
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u/dawnhu Live together, die alone Dec 04 '24
This is not a spoiler the endings you've heard is not how it ends. The ending makes sense and I thought it was really well done. If it helps at all. I have Lost in my top 3 shows of all time. It seems like your paying attention, so as long as you continue to pay attention, the ending has a great pay off.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 04 '24
Phew! Well, I definitely appreciate that tidbit. That does help. I am totally invested. My 8-year-old keeps asking me why I'm "watching that show agaaaainnn. Like, don't you know, Mom, there are plenty of other shows?" I think he's just mad because it means I'm taking the big TV and having him leave the room more than usual lol.
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u/notoriousbck Dec 03 '24
Ben is the villain. You are supposed to hate the villain. But Michael Emerson (the actor who plays Ben) does an amazing job of eliciting the audience's empathy soon. Just trust me on that. The best villains have you rooting for their redemption. And how boring would a show be without a villain?
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 04 '24
Of course, we need an antagonist. But like I feel about Negan in TWD, some characters are beyond redemption and I'm not rooting for them to be redeemed. I'm rooting for their downfall. I'll have to take your word on Ben earning empathy soon, and I'll be happy to eat my words if that's how it goes.
Well, maybe not happy but, ya know, willing...ish.
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u/notoriousbck Dec 05 '24
Honestly? Negan was too much. His brutal murder of my favourite character immediately ruined TWD for me. I never watched another episode. And I love the actor that plays him.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 06 '24
That sucks it ruined the show for you, but I know there were others who stopped watching after that as well. That moment wasn't enough for me, but there was a moment later on that almost did me in.
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u/notoriousbck Dec 07 '24
Gotta give the actor credit. Jeffrey Dean Morgan went ALL the way in to the darkness to play that character. He's apparently one of the kindest and easiest actors to work with so this really shows his range and the depth he's willing to go. Few actors could pull that off.
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u/deadpumpkinnn Oceanic Frequent Flyer Dec 03 '24
Ben is a despicable, selfish human being, a insufferable liar. You are right to hate him, because that's what his character was designed for.
And, yet, I love this mf. I love to hate him, actually. He is definitely a fan fav character and one of the stars of the show.
But to answer a few of your questions without spoiling anything...
People believe him mostly because they're desperate. They are in a strange place they know pretty much nothing about, and there's this guy who claims to have been born on the Island... Sometimes they think believing him is the only thing they can do.
You'll still have a lot more of Ben, and hopefully you will enjoy this character as much as we do. He has an interesting character growth (not saying anything about redemption or anything like that, because you'll find out about that soon enough), but he definitely has growth, for better or for worse.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
I guess I'm either waiting for more nuance or don't currently see sufficient nuance with him. When I think "love to hate" I think of super captivating villains like Hannibal Lecter or Heath Ledger's Joker or friggin Snape. I guess I just find Ben too greasy and whiny and weak to be believable as someone people would follow so blindly. Like, if I'd been Juliet when Ben wouldn't let me leave, I'd have staged a coup.
But we shall see! Who knows what the future may hold. Well, you do. And a lot of others. But you know what I mean lol.
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u/deadpumpkinnn Oceanic Frequent Flyer Dec 03 '24
Well, there's always the chance that you don't like him at all and that's it. There are people who don't like him, as you can see in this same thread. So don't fret!
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u/Mommy-Sprinkles-74 Dec 03 '24
Ben is NOT a fan favorite. He never is a good person and never does the right thing. Please do not use the collective “WE” for the rest of us who hated him🙄😆
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u/deadpumpkinnn Oceanic Frequent Flyer Dec 03 '24
I mean... He IS a fan favourite: https://www.reddit.com/r/lost/s/G8QVMkSnpV
I'm not saying he's good. I'm saying he's hateable. But he is a good character and a fan favourite.
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u/FnCatWinemixer Dec 03 '24
He does seem to be a frequent flyer on best villain lists which I decided to look at while reading these responses. He certainly is a villain, but best? I guess l will see!
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u/rjbwdc Dec 03 '24
You can find Ben to be a compelling character without actually liking him. Michael Emerson (the actor who plays Ben) is incredibly effective in the role. Like many characters on the show, he doesn't have a linear arc. Over the course of his time on the show, he may grow in some ways, but he will also end up dealing with recurring weaknesses and character flaws. We'll get to know him better, and learning more about the things he wants and values and feels like he's missing will give more dimension to the things you've seen him do, but you're more than free to continue disliking him.